[HN Gopher] Third Time: a better way to work (2022)
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       Third Time: a better way to work (2022)
        
       Author : FigurativeVoid
       Score  : 105 points
       Date   : 2024-05-16 14:35 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lesswrong.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lesswrong.com)
        
       | Swizec wrote:
       | I love this idea and have often observed the effect they describe
       | in the intro.
       | 
       | > Instead of half-working all day, it's better to work in focused
       | stints, with breaks in between to recover
       | 
       | Yes! Super true. Strong agree.
       | 
       | The discipline to actually do this I find harder to muster
       | however. When you're tired it can be difficult to realize that
       | you're tired and unproductive. Even when you do realize this, it
       | can be harder still to muster the activation energy to stop what
       | you're doing and take a break. I haven't found a solution to
       | this.
       | 
       | I have also found that for creative work especially (in
       | particular for writing), I will often have long unsatisfying
       | stints of working-but-not-working followed the next day by an
       | amazingly productive burst of activity. That burst does not
       | happen without the working-but-not-working period.
       | 
       | Then there's the other problem of how you apply this third time
       | idea to a workday. I would love to take a 20min break after every
       | 1 hour meeting. There are not enough hours in the day to do this.
        
         | arturkesik wrote:
         | Instead of half-working all day I prefer to work for half a day
         | 
         | Parkinson law: "Work expands so as to fill the time available
         | for its completion"
         | 
         | Horstman'a corollary: "Work contracts to fit in the time we
         | give it"
         | 
         | I used to give myself only 5 hours of work a day in given
         | hours. My productivity was surprisingly better than with full 8
         | hours, my stress was lower, and I had so much free time.
         | 
         | I really should get back to doing that
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | > Instead of half-working all day I prefer to work for half a
           | day
           | 
           | I have had a lot of success with this. I was also a stressed-
           | out wreck the entire time.
           | 
           | Turns out sprinting through all your work is exhausting. Who
           | knew
           | 
           | Ultimately I think the solution is to stop having more work
           | than fits in a day. But my personality really _really_
           | dislikes that reality.
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | I think this has been the biggest benefit to my mental health
           | working from home.
           | 
           | The ability to take a minute or thirty when I need it and not
           | wonder what the perception of those around me is. Some of my
           | best ideas come to me as I load the dishwasher.
           | 
           | I tend get more done when I can bounce between ideas,
           | projects, states of mind, locations, etc than when I'm
           | powering through something at a desk for hours at a time.
        
             | techdmn wrote:
             | I could never begin to count the times I have been grinding
             | away at something, making zero progress, and the right idea
             | comes to me two minutes after I step away from my machine.
        
             | tomjakubowski wrote:
             | Hammock driven development
             | https://youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc
             | 
             | When I worked in an office I'd get up and go on walks, or
             | move to a sofa and let the problem simmer a bit, several
             | times a day. I've been fortunate to work in companies which
             | seem to, I think, recognize these are productive activities
        
         | deepfriedchokes wrote:
         | Reminds me of interval training for physical fitness.
        
       | fight4ourrights wrote:
       | If I take a break every time I'm bored, I'd be breaking all day.
        
       | zeroonetwothree wrote:
       | This seems like a huge pain to track if I'm being honest
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | Well, time's a wastin'! First we'll write a little app, with a
         | sqlite-powered backend maybe throw it behind organizr or
         | something to run at home...
        
           | wdh505 wrote:
           | https://rationalbreaks.vercel.app/
        
       | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
       | When most of the work is to figure out what the other party wants
       | and what can I take, productivity and motivation practically go
       | down to zero.
       | 
       | I need to get into some lower level programming job or a tool
       | programming job.
        
         | TOGoS wrote:
         | Same. I wish I got to actually write code. I spend a lot of
         | time at my job knowing that there are programming tasks to be
         | done, but they're not in the sprint, and scrum master will
         | scold me if I work on them, so instead I sit on my hands
         | waiting for the middleware team to do some task or other that
         | would be totally unnecessary if they had followed my advice in
         | the first place.
        
           | RIMR wrote:
           | Just work on them anyway, save the code, and follow the
           | ticket. Once it's in the sprint, copy+paste and commit.
        
             | TOGoS wrote:
             | That is one approach that I try to take sometimes. The real
             | problem is more that having to report every morning on work
             | I've done that _is_ in the sprint puts a real damper on my
             | ability to focus on the other stuff. And if effort spent
             | overcoming that isn 't even appreciated, why bother? It's
             | just kind of demoralizing, especially after having spent a
             | decade working at a job where I was able to get things
             | done. Live and learn, then get demoted to a position where
             | you can't apply any of it.
             | 
             | I guess if you have a tendency to automate yourself out of
             | a job, it's inevitable that you'll end up somewhere so
             | dysfunctional that it's impossible to do so.
        
               | sambazi wrote:
               | > I guess if you have a tendency to automate yourself out
               | of a job, it's inevitable that you'll end up somewhere so
               | dysfunctional that it's impossible to do so.
               | 
               | think of a handyman that works so efficiently that he
               | effectively has no margin.
        
           | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
           | Yeah it's difficult to handle especially if there are unknown
           | unknowns. I prefer to find a coding job where my clients are
           | programmers.
        
           | episteme wrote:
           | From an outside perspective it looks like you are saying you
           | know what is best but can't convince anybody of it? Is
           | everyone around you incompetent or is it possible there are
           | different priorities?
        
             | TOGoS wrote:
             | I think it's not different priorities so much as an
             | organization that has ossified around a particular way of
             | doing things, and when problems are detected (like "why
             | does it take 2 weeks to add a column to a table"), the
             | solution is to cram more cooks into the kitchen. If I bring
             | this up I am basically told "well we can't do anything
             | about that." So I've learned to keep my mouth shut when the
             | scrum leader asks if there's anything keeping me from doing
             | my job rather than rattling off the latest of many
             | organizational problems that have made my job 1000x harder
             | than it needs to be.
             | 
             | I have worked at places where people are competent and have
             | slightly different priorities than I do. This is very
             | different.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | >scrum master will scold me if I work on them, so instead I
           | sit on my hands
           | 
           | Do the programming tasks anyway. I have found that being
           | productive will not get you fired, even if it makes a power-
           | junkie mad that you're not on their leash.
        
         | pacifi30 wrote:
         | Even more meta, make food for a family?
        
         | pif wrote:
         | Welcome to the software development world!
         | 
         | Software developing is so much more than web programming, oh
         | boy!
        
           | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
           | I'm actually a DE but with this market it's difficult to
           | transfer to anything else. I'll probably just switch jobs
           | frequently and keep the freshness, grit for 10 years and get
           | the hell of the indistry.
        
       | mrbluecoat wrote:
       | I read a third of the article.
        
       | wdh505 wrote:
       | https://rationalbreaks.vercel.app/
       | 
       | Per the comments someone made a web app for this already
        
       | executive wrote:
       | tldr: work 18 hours, sleep 6 hours
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | you got the math wrong. that's a quarter break
         | 
         | it's 12 hours of work and 8 hours of sleep.
         | 
         | and suddenly it all makes sense. while your mind takes a break
         | from work, your body isn't, and that's why it needs those 8
         | hours of sleep.
        
           | pif wrote:
           | actually, it's 16 work and 8 sleep
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | _facepalm_
             | 
             | yes of course!
             | 
             |  _scrambles off to look for a brown paper bag_
        
         | quectophoton wrote:
         | There seems to be confusion in replies, but this math seems
         | correct to me (assuming I understood the article correctly):
         | 18 + (18/3) = 24
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | > 1/5: 50 mins work + 10 mins breaks per hour. Working 5/6 of the
       | time. Hard
       | 
       | This is what school classes do? Not sure if that can be called
       | hard.
        
         | DylanDmitri wrote:
         | Passive listening vs. Active creation. Also I supplemented my
         | classes with doodle breaks.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | Is there some (or any) scientific basis for this? I couldn't find
       | any justification or references in the article, although my
       | apologies in advance if I missed them.
        
         | benatkin wrote:
         | > This kind of pattern is natural; research confirms that
         | people tend to take longer breaks after working for longer.
         | (One-third is just a recommendation; you can use other break
         | fractions if you prefer.)
         | 
         | There is a link on the word _research_. That seems like a
         | justification to me. I prefer just to casually take it into
         | account though.
        
       | telotortium wrote:
       | I made an Emacs Org-mode package for this:
       | https://github.com/telotortium/org-pomodoro-third-time
        
       | timwaagh wrote:
       | If you're enjoying it well enough this is typically not a
       | concern. I do take breaks when the program is building though. Or
       | when I'm not feeling it. Please don't try to replace your
       | feelings by ridiculously rigid schemes.
        
         | gregoriol wrote:
         | Same here: using timing for things like breaks is stressful and
         | adds constraints, when the idea of a break is actually to get
         | away from those
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | right. the time tracking needs to be automatic in some form.
           | a small tool that tracks your working time (plenty of those
           | to choose from, and maybe there is even one that tracks your
           | pause time too) and then a break activity that is easy to
           | measure.
           | 
           | the important part is to set things up in a way so i don't
           | have to think about it.
        
       | em-bee wrote:
       | i like the idea of breaktime accumulating based on the time
       | worked. it makes sense. it also means that after an 8 hour work
       | day i deserve to sit down in the evening and relax for an hour or
       | two without feeling guilty.
       | 
       | however i disagree that an interruption at the door, or going out
       | for errands counts as break time. it depends on what exactly
       | happens, but dealing with an interruption, or driving a car,
       | paying attention to catch a bus or train, are not relaxing.
       | personally i try to combine errands with going for a walk, so
       | that partly counts as a break. but dealing with other people can
       | be stressful (especially for introverts) so that's not a valid
       | break.
       | 
       | for a break you need an activity that you enjoy and that allows
       | you to relax.
       | 
       | when i am dealing with people a lot, then hacking on a side
       | project for fun becomes my break.
       | 
       | when i work alone on the computer, socializing with others can be
       | my break.
       | 
       | but after a day of working and socializing i need some alone time
       | to unwind.
        
       | EmilioPeJu wrote:
       | The way I prefer is slightly different: I work for as long as I
       | like, then I break for as long as I like.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | I found that I'm a lot happier doing things "according to need"
         | instead of forcing my human body to follow machine patterns.
         | 
         | However forcing myself to take a break every hour helped a lot
         | with chores, and with eating and hydrating properly.
        
       | zacharylee wrote:
       | It's really more important to have your own alone time.
        
       | fenesiistvan wrote:
       | Yeah. Treat yourself like a robot. What can go wrong... :)
        
       | washywashy wrote:
       | I might find this ultra-productivity useful if it was at a
       | business or side-project I owned or ran, where I have a large
       | stake in the outcomes and there's not enough people to do
       | everything. But, if working for a medium to large-sized company,
       | the ROI on this type of productivity just isn't there. I'm not
       | saying don't be professional and work hard and do your job, but
       | in my experience if you race ahead because of some productivity
       | hack you often end up either completing something that has
       | changed from how you did it by the time it is needed, or no one
       | really notices that you're cranking out extra tasks all the time.
       | I guess I could see a benefit if you use this to work smarter not
       | harder and automate out a lot of mundane drudgery in your day-to-
       | day.
        
       | x1xx wrote:
       | After reading the title I was hoping to find something about
       | third time, same as third space: time that's neither work nor
       | rest. That would be something!
        
       | GodotX wrote:
       | I love this so much that I actually made a gamified version of it
       | a few months ago! https://focumon.com/about
        
       | navane wrote:
       | This reads like a skit.
       | 
       | Divide your time in communication and focus work. After 3 units
       | of work, do 1 unit of communication. Or any other ratio.
       | 
       | Work from home for x days l, then work at the office for y days.
       | 
       | Work for five units of time, then don't work for two units of
       | time. We can call it week and weekend.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-18 23:03 UTC)