[HN Gopher] Make a game with Hoot for the Lisp Game Jam
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Make a game with Hoot for the Lisp Game Jam
Author : paroneayea
Score : 87 points
Date : 2024-05-15 18:32 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (spritely.institute)
(TXT) w3m dump (spritely.institute)
| aredox wrote:
| Any news on the front of non-GC LISPs? Carp [0] seems to be
| dormant...
|
| [0]https://www.eriksvedang.com/carp
|
| Edit: It is indeed dormant[1].
|
| [1]https://github.com/carp-
| lang/Carp/issues/1460#issuecomment-2...
| davexunit wrote:
| NLnet is funding Pre-Scheme https://nlnet.nl/project/Pre-
| Scheme/
| randomifcpfan wrote:
| https://opengoal.dev/ has reverse-engineered a compiler and
| runtime for the non-GC lisp GOAL that Naughty Dog used for the
| Jax and Daxter action adventure games. They have decompiled the
| game code for all three games.
| VyseofArcadia wrote:
| Tangential rant:
|
| My understanding is that Naughty Dog abandoned GOAL after the
| Jak games due to pressure from Sony. Sony wanted all of their
| studios to be able to share source code. [0]
|
| I hate this. Any two organically grown codebases (like, for
| example, games from different studios) are going to be so
| different that significant, non-trivial code sharing between
| them is going to be impossible anyway. Anything sufficiently
| generic might as be distributed as a precompiled library, and
| then use the FFI in your language of choice to take
| advantage.
|
| [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20070720142546/http://lists.m
| idn...
| cess11 wrote:
| "Add this to the difficulty curve of learning a new
| language for new hires".
|
| This argument is such a pointy-haired boss argument. Mature
| applications and systems will be more complicated and take
| longer to learn than the basics of pretty much any
| programming language. Grab some juniors and teach them if
| local seniors don't want to work in the language for a
| reasonable price.
| VyseofArcadia wrote:
| Most seniors I know wouldn't balk at learning a new
| language for a job, because most seniors know what you
| just stated to be true. It will take much longer to get
| up to speed on the codebase than it will be to learn the
| language. Even for "difficult" languages like a lisp or
| Haskell.
|
| Management and HR seem to assume it will take
| significantly longer to get up to speed in a new
| language, but don't seem to care that new hires have to
| learn all of their weird C++ idioms that have built up
| over decades like atherosclerosis.
| Jach wrote:
| Not to mention working programmers are expected to keep
| up with changes to C++, Python, Java, JavaScript (and its
| frameworks), Go2.0, etc., many of which constitute "new
| language" levels of different, not to mention actual
| language changes like JS -> TypeScript, or Java ->
| Kotlin, or ObjC -> Swift, and even occasionally mobile
| lang -> C++ (maybe just a shared core). There's plenty of
| evidence that it's not that bad. And meanwhile, Common
| Lisp hasn't changed, code from the 90s works unmodified,
| the only things to keep up with really are which
| libraries and implementation-specific features are
| new/interesting/in fashion (same as any language
| ecosystem).
| pjmlp wrote:
| It is quite different, as those are incremental changes,
| and most of them can be ignored until there is a
| requirement to use a library or SDK that makes more
| recent features a requirement.
|
| Any corporate developer knows the pain of actually being
| allowed to upgrade toolchains, traditionally lagging
| behind several years behind lang v-latest.
| cess11 wrote:
| I much prefer upgraded libraries and tooling over
| sticking to deprecated stuff.
|
| Handling upgrades is like doing the dishes, it has to be
| done, there's no use complaining about it.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Someone has to put the money on the table for those
| upgrades.
|
| This is the great thing about consulting instead of
| product development, developers are made constantly aware
| of their hourly rates.
|
| No budget for spending time on upgrades, no upgrades.
| Y_Y wrote:
| Shootouts to cwebber and Spritely, I love what they're doing to
| show Scheme off as a modern and practical language.
| paroneayea wrote:
| Thanks! Though definitely the shoutout goes to the Spritely
| team in general, particularly the Hoot team, and in this case,
| particularly David Thompson, who put together that lovely game
| jam template with the breakout clone! :) It's truly incredible
| working with such a talented team of people every day.
|
| (And hope that was meant to be "shoutouts" and not "shootouts"
| ;) !)
| NeutralForest wrote:
| I just wish it was easier to get started with Guile tbh. I'm an
| Emacs user so I don't have to learn Emacs to use Scheme and I
| still find the experience pretty bare-bone. There aren't many
| tutorials about creating Guile projects, writing tests,
| debugging, etc.
| BaculumMeumEst wrote:
| And there's no step debugger available for guile in Emacs like
| there is for emacs lisp, Common Lisp, racket, and Clojure which
| is unfortunate
| paroneayea wrote:
| There is step debugging available in Guile plus Geiser, but
| it's not very reliable. You can call ,next for instance, see:
| https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Interact.
| .. https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Debug-
| Co...
|
| Unfortunately the problem is that Guile optimizes away whole
| chunks of code, and thus debugging information is not as good
| as it could be, and if you set traps they might be optimized
| out too. My understanding is that this could be made better,
| but could use a champion.
|
| (The other trick is to turn off the optimizations when
| debugging, which is sometimes what I do.)
| stephen_cagle wrote:
| What is the step debugger for clojure you recommend?
| pjmlp wrote:
| Cursive, https://cursive-ide.com/
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