[HN Gopher] Winamp has announced that it is "opening up" its sou...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Winamp has announced that it is "opening up" its source code
        
       Author : captbaritone
       Score  : 181 points
       Date   : 2024-05-16 20:56 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (about.winamp.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (about.winamp.com)
        
       | ssahoo wrote:
       | Good. Love the reimplementation in HTML https://webamp.org/
        
         | semireg wrote:
         | This satisfied whatever cravings I still had. Thank you!
        
         | yazzku wrote:
         | It's fantastic. I can easily spend hours on the skins website.
         | https://skins.webamp.org/
        
           | tech-no-logical wrote:
           | wow, I even found the skin I used way back when... very cool
           | 
           | https://skins.webamp.org/skin/d77a144cdb775a0937617389b6e0e4.
           | ..
        
         | captbaritone wrote:
         | Hey! That's my side project. So glad to hear people enjoy it.
        
       | LocutusOfBorges wrote:
       | Twenty years too late for it to possibly matter, but it's still
       | nice to see.
       | 
       | Interesting that there's no mention of what licence the source is
       | being released under - and it's only available following email
       | enquiries, of all things. I'm surprised they're even bothering,
       | at this point - the software's so obsolete that it's not like it
       | has much in the way of value anymore beyond nostalgia.
        
         | bcraven wrote:
         | I use the community update of Winamp, WACUP, and it's
         | excellent. I've tried other media players but always come back
         | here.
         | 
         | I'm not even one of those people who likes the shitty
         | visualisations, I just think the interface works perfectly.
         | 
         | https://getwacup.com/
        
           | QuercusMax wrote:
           | It's windows-only? Weird.
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | Weird? It's _Win_ amp lol
        
               | xnx wrote:
               | With the source code someone can port it to make Linamp.
        
               | callwhendone wrote:
               | don't forget Macamp.
        
               | nathell wrote:
               | Remember that before Winamp, there was DOSamp! I used to
               | use version 0.8. Playback was jerky on a 486DX2/66 but
               | once I upgraded to a Pentium, it was smooth sailing.
        
               | maximilianburke wrote:
               | There once was xmms
        
               | kbenson wrote:
               | Before that it was called x11amp, and after that it's
               | been succeeded by a fork that ended up being Audacious,
               | apparently.
        
               | JohnTHaller wrote:
               | Qmmp is still being developed:
               | https://qmmp.ylsoftware.com/
        
               | m00x wrote:
               | Who's gonna build TempleAmp?
        
               | kbenson wrote:
               | Yeah, if you want something similar for other systems,
               | try x11amp.
               | 
               | (Yes I know it's not called that anymore and I'm showing
               | my age).
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | It's Windows only for now.
             | 
             | The architecture of Winamp is made of various plugins.
             | WACUP is replacing them bit by bit.
             | 
             | Once everything is replaced then porting could be possible,
             | though it's been only built for Windows so there must be a
             | lot of Windows-isms in there.
        
             | Dwedit wrote:
             | There have been Linux-based clones of Winamp for a long
             | time, such as XMMS (which directly supports Winamp skins).
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | They seem to be just as cagey about the licensing. Not that
           | there's any obligation for people to be FOSS if they want to
           | give software away, but the intentional avoidance of the
           | question is always instructive. Just say that it's not FOSS,
           | it's fine.
           | 
           | > Will it be free ?
           | 
           | > Yes WACUP will be free to download & to use.
           | 
           | > This is an independent project & due to the amount of time
           | & effort which is involved, I am accepting donations (and
           | other means of support) to help cover my living costs whilst
           | I'm working on getting this developed & released. As at this
           | time, this is a full-time project for me whilst I see where
           | the future will take me & this project.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | Have you checked out foobar2000? To me, it always felt like
           | the true successor to Winamp.
        
             | koito17 wrote:
             | foobar2000 has been my go-to player on both Windows and Mac
             | for about a decade now. Particularly, I like the dense (yet
             | uncluttered) interface and functionality I take for
             | granted, like selecting a dozen files and editing metadata
             | all at once.
             | 
             | A few of my friends complain that the layout "sucks" or
             | foobar lacks functionality they need, but for my use case,
             | it's in a Goldilocks state. With that said, for people used
             | to the functionality of Winamp, I think MusicBee is more
             | likely to be the successor, in terms of out-of-the-box
             | functionality and layout extensibility.
        
               | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
               | I find it amusing that modern foobar2k theming is based
               | around Javascript.
        
               | babypuncher wrote:
               | > A few of my friends complain that the layout "sucks" or
               | foobar lacks functionality they need, but for my use
               | case,
               | 
               | I see these complaints too, and I find them funny. The
               | layout is what you make of it. I don't care for any of
               | the layout presets presented in the "Quick Appearance
               | Setup" dialog, but the default UI component is very easy
               | to customize almost any way you want. There's even a
               | scratchbox feature that lets you experiment with building
               | a whole UI from scratch without messing with your current
               | layout.
               | 
               | As for the functionality they find it lacks, well,
               | there's probably a component for that.
               | 
               | Frankly I find foobar2000 comes with a ton of
               | functionality out of the box that other media players
               | don't have, like the very robust features found in the
               | "Tagging" and "File Operations" context menu entries.
        
             | leeoniya wrote:
             | you'd have a hard time replicating this UI [1] or other
             | winamp skins in foobar2000, so i'm not sure i'd call it a
             | successor except in the sense that it can play anything you
             | throw at it.
             | 
             | [1] https://getwacup.com/screenshots/
        
               | babypuncher wrote:
               | I consider it a successor in that it's compact with an
               | emphasis on user customization and community-designed
               | plugins/components. Like Winamp, most functionality you
               | get out of the box is provided by bundled plugins, and
               | they can be replaced with alternatives.
               | 
               | Out of the box, you could certainly customize it to have
               | a similar layout to winamp even if none of the dressing
               | looks at all the same.
               | 
               | My layout[1] is certainly very different than Winamp, but
               | still conforms a lot more to the basic shape of Winamp
               | than the usual giant screen-filling squares that are
               | iTunes, Windows Media Player or the Spotify desktop
               | client.
               | 
               | 1. https://i.postimg.cc/R0JzVTK8/image.png
        
         | davidgerard wrote:
         | I was surprised to find how many people still use Winamp now.
        
         | callwhendone wrote:
         | took them 20 years to figure out that they can't monetize their
         | media player
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | Literally just yesterday I was staring at Winamp's basic
         | visualizer because I was trying to make something similar in my
         | Godot game.
         | 
         | I'm still not sure exactly what I'm missing, as I have the
         | "gist" of the visualizer working, but it just doesn't look as
         | smooth as Winamp's. I think I need slight persistence and the
         | little effect with the 'caps' that slowly fall down for each
         | column (right now mine looks too jittery).
        
           | foxandmouse wrote:
           | have you looked at the ProjectM: https://github.com/projectM-
           | visualizer/projectm
        
         | swatcoder wrote:
         | It may carry downstream license obligations of its own, that
         | prohibit/complicate public release.
         | 
         | Relatedly, they might be hoping that one of the people looking
         | at it might be willing to buy out or take over contractual
         | responsibility for any components that can't be relicensed to
         | traditional open source. Basically, parading the source around
         | like a debutante because other channels to find buyers haven't
         | panned out.
         | 
         | Or it's just real-world commercial code and is kind of
         | embarassing by the standards of public open source projects.
        
       | xxpor wrote:
       | I'm skeptical this will be a fully free license based on the
       | cagey language in the announcement :/
        
         | pquki4 wrote:
         | Very weird. They provide a very specific future date for this,
         | and avoided using the term "open source". I can't recall any
         | other company doing this. Most of the time, companies provide a
         | github repository at the same time they make such
         | announcements. Even for twitter, Elon Musk promised the
         | algorithm would be opened, and then some time later it was just
         | there. While generally it is a positive thing to see code being
         | available, I wouldn't think too much into it until I can see
         | the license and the code.
        
           | TillE wrote:
           | > I can't recall any other company doing this
           | 
           | Years ago Microsoft used to do stuff like this, notably
           | releasing .NET Framework under its Reference Source License
           | (you're allowed to look at the code, but that's about it).
        
           | ElijahLynn wrote:
           | TIL: https://github.com/twitter/the-algorithm
           | 
           | https://blog.x.com/engineering/en_us/topics/open-
           | source/2023...
        
       | 0x1ch wrote:
       | The dozen people still using Winamp rejoice...
        
         | dark-star wrote:
         | I'm one of those 12 people apparently. I don't know, I still
         | listen to mp3 music on my PC almost every day... And I have yet
         | to find another player that is as fast and lightweight as
         | WinAMP
        
           | zeroonetwothree wrote:
           | foobar is great
        
           | jerhewet wrote:
           | Not lightweight, but I've fallen in love with MusicBee
           | (https://getmusicbee.com/) and it's been my only music player
           | for at least the last 10 years. Love everything about it.
        
           | devindotcom wrote:
           | i'm with you my brother
        
       | hodder wrote:
       | It really whips the llama's ass.
        
         | yazzku wrote:
         | Certainly whipped my ass after hearing that intro again 20
         | years later.
        
           | nuxi wrote:
           | it's Wesley Willis, all the way down...
        
       | solardev wrote:
       | Maybe now we can finally add RealVideo support to it.
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | Let's all take this moment to celebrate 22 years and 230 days
         | of RealNetwork's strong commitment to fucking ugly clunky
         | software.
         | 
         | https://www.bonequest.com/1099
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | til: Winamp is still alive and kicking
        
       | tflol wrote:
       | As if they arent already ruin everything I love as I use it, they
       | are now reaching into my past and threaten to ruin things there.
       | 
       | Will winamp be gamified? Will AI be integrated into the UI? Will
       | the interface be clunky and slow? Will random shuffle change to
       | "shuffle we want for you"? Will every part of the UI turn
       | enouremous with no option to go back? Stay tuned
        
         | kibibu wrote:
         | So don't update it. It's not a subscription
        
       | renegade-otter wrote:
       | I remember as a hobbyist Windows programmer (Borland C++ Builder)
       | I was really envious of the skills required to build something
       | like Winamp - especially the UI. Back then, advanced learning
       | resources and examples were effectively non-existent or at least,
       | hard to find and stitch together.
        
         | yazzku wrote:
         | The fact that you can re-skin it at runtime with such a wide
         | variety of skins and load such a variety of plugins puts modern
         | software to shame.
        
           | renegade-otter wrote:
           | Dockable UI, fast, stable, form and function. Really a
           | masterclass in software design to this day.
        
           | pjbk wrote:
           | I think those of us who use the REAPER DAW and its
           | customizable themes are the main beneficiaries of that
           | functionality.
        
           | bredren wrote:
           | It was really cool.
           | 
           | Skinning was pretty easy to do. The packaging format was a
           | zip archive with a renamed extension. You could do a lot with
           | a little photoshop skills and trial and error.
           | 
           | So many people used it that skins would get a lot of
           | distribution, too.
        
           | dale_glass wrote:
           | You can reskin a lot of modern software, it just went out of
           | fashion.
        
         | GeoAtreides wrote:
         | (Borland) Delphi also made creating non standard form shapes;
         | the secret was in leveraging the win32 api, which was really
         | easy to do in Delphi.
         | 
         | Here's an example:
         | http://www.delphicorner.f9.co.uk/articles/forms4.htm
        
           | cellularmitosis wrote:
           | Strange that they didn't include a single screenshot on that
           | page.
        
             | drekipus wrote:
             | Very common for older projects
        
         | adra wrote:
         | I remember fondly writing a winamp clone in school with a team
         | project. We scraped together a rough plugin based player, input
         | and output plugins (a super limited network streaming variant),
         | etc.. good times grinding on a neat project. Yikes, that was
         | like 25 years ago.
        
       | GGO wrote:
       | why wait this long (until Sept 2024) to opensource the code?
        
         | captbaritone wrote:
         | Note that they don't actually say "open source" anywhere.
        
         | ndiddy wrote:
         | Winamp has a ton of proprietary licensed library code (codecs,
         | Gracenote API, etc) that all has to be replaced with open
         | source equivalents before the code can be released. I believe
         | the skeleton crew that they had working on maintaining Winamp a
         | few years ago started on some of this work, but I'm assuming
         | that the whole codebase needs to be audited to make sure that
         | they're legally in the clear.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | It's also weird that the timestamp on the press release is "Dec
         | 16, 1".
         | 
         | There are 5 press releases total on that site, 2 from 2023, 2
         | from 2024, and this one from year "1". It just seems very
         | strange.
        
       | pwillia7 wrote:
       | llama
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | is there a good Mac port that supports newer, especially loss
       | less, codecs?
        
         | captbaritone wrote:
         | The closest I've seen is https://re-amp.ru. Not sure about
         | codecs
        
       | sn0n wrote:
       | Can we get a Godot port for winamp on all the systems? Kthnx. ^>^
        
       | foxandmouse wrote:
       | I can't remember the last time I thought of winamp, I moved on to
       | foobar2000 and then to streaming services. Even with this
       | announcement, there's no mention of a licence... Too little too
       | late, maybe if foobar2000 became open source but I'd doubt it.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | This leaked a couple years ago
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29379346
        
       | drc86 wrote:
       | I knew those quotation marks were going to ruin my elation when I
       | clicked the headline.
        
       | hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
       | Kinda late. Maybe it would've been cool in 2006 when I still used
       | Windows.
       | 
       | But what I really want to know is: will it really kick the LLaMAs
       | ass now with AI features?
        
         | babypuncher wrote:
         | I'm surprised they _haven 't_ announced any AI features yet.
         | 
         | It seems like every 5 years ago there's a big "Winamp is BACK"
         | announcement paired with some new nonsense related to whatever
         | the big tech buzzword of the day is. Last time it was
         | blockchains.
        
       | devindotcom wrote:
       | Currently dating myself by playing Portishead's Dummy in Winamp
       | 5.66...
       | 
       | Looking forward to this code being lightly maintained for minimal
       | compatibility with future OSes. I dislike change!
        
       | ndiddy wrote:
       | Some context: Winamp's owners have been going through financial
       | difficulties since last year and as a result have laid off the
       | skeleton crew they previously had maintaining Winamp (their main
       | focus seems to be a streaming service also called Winamp for
       | HTML5 and phones). This looks like they're willing to let the
       | community take over maintenance for PC Winamp, which beats
       | letting it die IMO.
       | 
       | https://forums.winamp.com/forum/winamp/winamp-site-design/46...
        
         | peppertree wrote:
         | Still waiting on KaZaA open source. Kids these days don't know
         | what it's like trying to download a music video and end up
         | watching someone getting beheaded.
        
       | thefourthchime wrote:
       | About 20 years ago, I almost got hired on the Winamp team. They
       | were busy working on Winamp 3, which, from what I gathered, was a
       | pretty much total rewrite using modern C++.
       | 
       | The previous codebase had been more or less just C, written by
       | Justin Frankel. I think everyone kind of hated Winamp 3. It was
       | very buggy. The plugin framework was extremely complicated. I
       | wonder which source code they'll open up. Maybe both.
        
         | boomskats wrote:
         | I had to re-read your comment because first time round I
         | thought you were suggesting it was JF's codebase they hated.
         | Everything else he's ever worked on has been phenomenal
         | (especially Reaper, from the very start).
         | 
         | So was that at AOL?
        
       | loceng wrote:
       | I just remembered I used to hangout in an IRC chat with the
       | creator of Sonique as a pre-teen when I first started to teach
       | myself to code - Sonique being the main competitor to Winamp way
       | back when.
       | 
       | Strange how memory works.
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | I used to love Winamp for internet radio/tv.
       | 
       | Maybe plug-in NewPipe or similar instead and fork it?
        
       | babypuncher wrote:
       | For anyone looking for a _slightly_ more modern alternative, I
       | recommend foobar2000[1].
       | 
       | It's not quite as pretty out of the box, but it makes up for it
       | with some insane customizability. It also has a very robust
       | ecosystem of components, and works very well in Wine.
       | 
       | 1. https://www.foobar2000.org/
        
       | RobotToaster wrote:
       | The weaselly wording doesn't make me optimistic, but I hope it's
       | an open source license.
        
       | nipperkinfeet wrote:
       | I still use the old Winamp on all my devices. Winamp: old or new
       | is being open sourced? If it's the old one, wonderful! WACUP team
       | are now able to develop a ARM version.
        
       | bdjsiqoocwk wrote:
       | Questions for the experts: should anyone use this, compared eg to
       | something more modern like VLC?
        
       | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
       | https://qmmp.ylsoftware.com/ already exists, though.
        
       | chubot wrote:
       | Wow, for me Winamp was one of the first "enshittified" pieces of
       | software.
       | 
       | I remember one version was fantastic, and then the next version
       | sucked. I'm pretty sure this was due to a change in ownership or
       | something
       | 
       | I remember I used to use http://oldversion.com [1] to download
       | the previous one
       | 
       | Ever since then I have been wary of "improvements" that make
       | software worse, which has been happening a lot recently.
       | 
       | I'd be really interested in seeing the source code to the
       | original. I didn't know much about programming then, and to me
       | that would be similar to reading the original source code of Doom
       | (which I've done a bit)
       | 
       | [1] this site still seems alive? But doesn't even have https?
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | > I remember one version was fantastic, and then the next
         | version sucked. I'm pretty sure this was due to a change in
         | ownership or something
         | 
         | Winamp 3 was a major regression that sparked a backlash (in
         | particular it had a new skin engine that probably was a priori
         | better, but broke compatibility all existing skins, which
         | wasn't popular; also performance, which had been a major
         | selling point, was worse), but I don't remember there being any
         | change of ownership or monetization effort. I think it was just
         | a genuine well-intentioned rewrite that ended up worse than the
         | original, like Netscape 4 or KDE4.
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Hope it's the source for Winamp 2.x (not 3 or 5)
        
       | riffic wrote:
       | didn't it leak some time ago? did AOL ever spin nullsoft back
       | out?
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Oh my God. My favorite piece of software of all time. Would love
       | to read it's source.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-05-16 23:00 UTC)