[HN Gopher] Adobe Photoshop Source Code (2013)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Adobe Photoshop Source Code (2013)
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 379 points
       Date   : 2024-05-15 15:12 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (computerhistory.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (computerhistory.org)
        
       | stockhorn wrote:
       | An article from 2013 with an adobe photoshop version 1.x from
       | 1990....
        
         | boomskats wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure half of that code is still running in WASM on
         | photoshop.adobe.com
        
           | msk-lywenn wrote:
           | You mean current photoshop includes pascal code?
        
             | madeofpalk wrote:
             | I would not be surprised if it does. Photoshop is big and
             | has a lot of legacy.
        
               | dlachausse wrote:
               | I have a feeling that much of it was translated to C or
               | C++ at some point for portability and maintainability
               | reasons. There are several automated Pascal to C
               | translators out there, such as the following...
               | 
               | http://users.fred.net/tds/lab/p2c/
               | 
               | Also the languages are similar enough that a programmer
               | with knowledge of both could translate it manually
               | without too much difficulty.
        
               | dunham wrote:
               | Typically TeX is translated from Pascal to C too, via
               | web2c.
               | 
               | But there also is a Pascal to WASM compiler out there,
               | which was written specifically for TeX:
               | 
               | https://github.com/kisonecat/web2js
               | 
               | TeX itself is only about 500kb of wasm, uncompressed, but
               | the memory images with LaTeX loaded are quite a bit
               | larger.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | What's wrong with Pascal, apart from the ability to hire
             | developers for it?
        
               | p0w3n3d wrote:
               | Writing in Pascal itself is a Job Preservation Pattern
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | I hated the dialects of Pascal we were using at school in
               | the early 1980s because they didn't really support
               | systems programming but after I got a 286 machine I got
               | into Turbo Pascal which did have the extensions I need
               | and that I preferred greatly to C but I switched to C in
               | college because I could write C programs and run them on
               | my PC or on Sun workstations with a 32 bit address space.
        
               | miohtama wrote:
               | Turbo Pascal and later Delphi were really nice, but I
               | guess in the same vertical C won due to its UNIX legacy.
               | 
               | You can pretty much transform 1:1 between C and Pascal
               | code.
        
             | callalex wrote:
             | Tools used for art often get irrationally preserved for the
             | sake of it. For example I have had a conversation with more
             | than one person (well 2 but still) who believed
             | unironically that the wiring inside vintage guitars and
             | amps must be coated with asbestos insulation or it would
             | change the tone/texture of the sound.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | Don't crush that in a hydraulic press.
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | (2013)
        
         | Eduard wrote:
         | I find the addition of "(2013)" to the title misleading.
         | 
         | "Adobe Photoshop Source Code (2013)"
         | 
         | I thought it is about Photoshop source code from around 2013.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | > they could not have imagined that they would be adding a word
       | to the dictionary.
       | 
       | Adobe tries to fight that, as this leads to genericization[1].
       | Their trademark guidelines[2] state a number of examples, like:
       | 
       | "Always capitalize and use trademarks in their correct form.
       | Correct: The image was enhanced with Adobe(r) Photoshop(r)
       | Elements software. Incorrect: The image was photoshopped."
       | 
       | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.adobe.com/legal/permissions/trademarks.html
        
         | andai wrote:
         | I understand the pressure they're under, but nobody's going to
         | say that...
        
           | chias wrote:
           | "Oh you're not actually using Linux, that's GNU/Linux"
        
             | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
             | TIL, "Linux", without the "GNU/" prefix is a registered
             | trademark of Linus Torvalds.
             | 
             | https://ubuntu.com/legal/trademarks#:~:text=Linux%C2%AE%20i
             | s....
             | 
             | So (in the US, at least), it's "Linux(TM)" and not
             | "GNU/Linux" - I'm going to love using this the next time
             | anyone goes uhmackshully to me.
        
               | medmunds wrote:
               | Uhmackshully, since it's _registered_ , it's "Linux(r)".
               | The (tm) is for _unregistered_ trademarks.
        
               | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
               | Hoisted by my own petard!
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | I'm sure they know that. The text is there so that they can
           | stand up in court and point to it, not because they think
           | people will actually follow the instructions.
        
           | electroly wrote:
           | It's just like "LEGO(r) bricks." They're desperately trying
           | to avoid genericization but it's way too late and nobody is
           | going to say that informally. All companies want you to use
           | their trademarks as capitalized adjectives but nobody can
           | make you, personally, do that. But it does help with their
           | official corporate partners who will follow the guidance if
           | they want to stay in Adobe/LEGO's good graces.
        
         | deusum wrote:
         | I believe it's now well into the realm of genericization.[1]
         | Xerox lost a major lawsuit relatedly, iirc.
         | 
         | [1] e.g,
         | https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/15-product-trade...
        
         | cynicalsecurity wrote:
         | I photoshopped an image with Gimp.
        
           | Zambyte wrote:
           | While using GIMP
        
           | resource_waste wrote:
           | No you didn't. No one actually uses Gimp. We just say 'Gimp
           | is a replacement for photoshop' and pretend that is actually
           | an acceptable solution for people using Linux.
           | 
           | (Btw I switched to Krita and I'm never going back to Gimp.
           | Even the things Gimp should be good at, Krita is better.)
        
             | rvense wrote:
             | Personally I crop screenshots with GIMP twice a year and
             | it's absolutely fine for that. Not sure what your problem
             | is.
        
               | NovemberWhiskey wrote:
               | If your use-case is "crop screenshots", your competition
               | isn't Photoshop, it's MS Paint.
        
               | bmacho wrote:
               | There aren't many image editors that are able to crop
               | pictures in a usable way. MS Paint for example can't do
               | that. I wonder if the "move this rectangle" method is
               | under patents.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | If there was a linux port of paint, I'd consider it.
               | Until then, GIMP is fine.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | Check out Pinta. It does basic image editing pretty well,
               | imo.
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | GIMP is the screenshot cropping tool, or for when you want
             | to write a Lisp program to do a single, technically-precise
             | thing to an image. Krita for everything else!
             | 
             | I'm still waiting for the Krita equivalent of Inkscape.
        
               | Zambyte wrote:
               | I use Lisp extensions all the time for things people
               | claim GIMP can't do, like draw certain shapes.
               | 
               | GIMP is to Emacs as Photoshop is to Intellij. Both GIMP
               | and Emacs are fairly lean out of the box; it is meant to
               | be molded into what the user wants. The problem is the
               | target audience of Emacs is much more keen on
               | programmatically modifying their systems than the target
               | audience of GIMP.
        
               | harrison_clarke wrote:
               | sounds like exactly what ronin is for
               | 
               | tutorial/example video:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgAWGh1s9zg
        
               | ltlnx wrote:
               | What issues do you have with Inkscape? I've used it for
               | both (semi-)professional and personal work, and the UX is
               | quite pleasant.
        
           | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
           | I gimped an image with Adobe Photoshop(r)
        
           | downrightmike wrote:
           | such a terrible name
        
             | dclowd9901 wrote:
             | Nobody's ever accused open source of being good at naming
             | stuff
        
             | aragonite wrote:
             | Do the users find the name terrible though? I'm pretty sure
             | on at least 3 different occasions I heard someone excitely
             | yelling "time to bring out the GIMP!" or some such when
             | they needed to do some quick photo editing.
             | 
             | Case in point:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4CjOB0y9nI&t=2518s
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | Yeah, GIMP is an awesome name. It's fun and playful, one
               | of the better named programs out there imo.
        
           | hallarempt wrote:
           | I, as the Krita maintainer, hereby give everyone the right to
           | verb the trademarked name "krita". Whether it's I "krittered
           | that concept" or "I kritaed that sketch" -- it's fine!
           | 
           | The only thing you cannot do with the trademarked name krita
           | is publish rip-off, spyware-laden versions in places like
           | eBay.
        
         | tjoff wrote:
         | Is genericization _really_ a problem though?
        
           | caseyohara wrote:
           | Yes, companies can lose the exclusive right to their mark if
           | the brand is sufficiently genericized. Just ask Frisbee,
           | (Kawasaki) Jet Ski, ChapStick, Velcro, Lego, Band-Aid,
           | Jacuzzi, the list goes on.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericize.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | Most annoyingly, IMO: _Sriracha_.
             | 
             | The Huy Fong guy decided not to trademark the term, and
             | consequently in the last few years, _everyone_ is selling a
             | Sriracha sauce, all of which are grossly inferior to the
             | original.
             | 
             | I've tried many of them, being lately in a Huy Fong desert,
             | and esp during their period of production issues.
             | 
             | There are a couple of also-rans, rating maybe 7 stars out
             | of 10. They do not taste like real Sriracha, but they're
             | OK. If they didn't call themselves _Sriracha_ , I might
             | appreciate them more.
        
               | jimbobthrowawy wrote:
               | I don't think that's any more annoying than "ketchup" or
               | "barbecue" sauce not being trademarked. I hear the sauce
               | made by their original pepper suppliers is pretty good
               | though.
        
             | sgerenser wrote:
             | Yes, just ask Velcro(tm):
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
        
           | edmara wrote:
           | Of course. A trademark exists to mutually protect consumers
           | and businesses from deceptive advertising. When a term
           | referring to a specific product becomes a term for a product
           | category etc, trademark protections then becomes harmful to
           | consumers, but they still benefit the business. If you're
           | building a brand generally you want to be as close to the
           | legal limit as possible without exceeding it
        
         | somat wrote:
         | ehh... I am not sure,
         | 
         | A photo shop was a thing long before adobe made some software
         | that could replace an entire photo shop and called it...
         | Photoshop. Verb your nouns and that thing you do in a photo
         | shop becomes "to photoshop"
         | 
         | I think the insistence on using the "Adobe(r) Photoshop(r)" is
         | more that the term is already sort of generic and they are on
         | shaky ground from the start. Sort of like windows, or dos,
         | Microsoft goes hard always calling it "Microsoft Windows(r)" or
         | "MS DOS(r)" because just windows, or disk operating system are
         | already very generic terms.
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/v/BR6F0EdyulA?t=404 (dave plummer)
         | 
         | Not that this will stop them from trying to sue you if you
         | release products using those terms, Gotta give the lawyers
         | something to do after all. Otherwise they would just be sitting
         | around wasting money.
         | 
         | This is in contrast to Xerox a term invented specifically for a
         | new invention and the company that invented it.
        
           | deaddodo wrote:
           | It doesn't necessarily matter if you follow their guidelines
           | or not, this is all legal facade so that they can retain
           | their trademark. In the majority of instances, they simply
           | have to show they made efforts to retain their unique
           | trademark. They don't care that you say "I photoshopped X"
           | they just care that GIMP isn't marketed as "GIMP: Open Source
           | Photoshop" (or similar instances).
        
         | maurosilber wrote:
         | "Always capitalize and use trademarks in their correct form.
         | 
         | Incorrect: The image was photoshopped.
         | 
         | Correct: The image was enhanced with GIMP software."
        
         | ian-g wrote:
         | Much more effectively, Velcro's been trying the same thing:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRi8LptvFZY
         | 
         | It still won't work in the long run, but I'm very aware now
         | that Velcro is a trademarked name.
        
       | NewsaHackO wrote:
       | Which do you think has more features, this or current GIMP?
        
         | Zambyte wrote:
         | GIMP has a plugin system and this does not AFAIK, so you're
         | comparing unbounded features vs bounded features.
        
         | resource_waste wrote:
         | What has accomplished more work? Photoshop prior to 2013, or
         | Gimp all time?
         | 
         | Lol we all know.
         | 
         | Why is Gimp the knee jerk reaction when its rarely used in the
         | real world? Did we learn it in the 2000s and just keep
         | repeating it? (I say this as a Krita fan)
        
           | MayeulC wrote:
           | The source code in the linked article is for Photoshop
           | v1.0.1, published in 1990.
           | 
           | Though I don't think Gimp is as rarely used in the real world
           | as you seem to think. We all live in different bubbles, but I
           | know more people that use GIMP than Photoshop.
        
           | Zambyte wrote:
           | Why are you comparing it to Photoshop in 2013? The article is
           | about Photoshop in 1990.
        
       | TIPSIO wrote:
       | Incredible that the UX is still generally the same. What a vision
       | the original engineers had.
       | 
       | I am annoyed today though every time I open the app. The only
       | time it has ever felt snappy on desktop was a sweet period when
       | the MacBook Pro M1 first came out and Adobe Photoshop had a
       | Silicon beta out.
       | 
       | Those days are long gone and we are slow again.
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | I still use an old CS6 license and while it's snappy in the
         | app, it still takes its time to boot.
        
         | aredox wrote:
         | Is it because the UX is good or because changing it is
         | impossible without the users rebelling en masse?
        
           | biofox wrote:
           | No point fixing something that isn't broken (someone please
           | tell Microsoft)
        
             | Rinzler89 wrote:
             | _> No point fixing something that isn't broken_
             | 
             | But how do you know a UX isn't broken, when you've only
             | seen one iteration of it you're whole life and have nothing
             | else to compare it to? Kind of like Plato's Cave Allegory.
             | 
             | You have to try new things, and if you see them fail, then
             | you know which one was the best.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | "try" doesn't imply "ship to millions of customers"
               | 
               | And sometimes there's good enough and you should leave it
               | alone. QWERTY isn't optimal but it's not very far from
               | it.
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | But if you're not gonna ship it to all your millions of
               | users and receive the outrage as feedback, how will you
               | ever know if it works or not?
               | 
               | A/B testing to a few users only works in web-app front-
               | ends, not in professional tools where all single end-user
               | releases need to look and act exactly the same.
               | 
               | Shipping to only a handful of users wasn't a thing in the
               | era of "Gold CD" releases, and even in the era of the
               | internet updates, nobody will want to take part in A/B
               | testing and end up with a different Photoshop UX than
               | what his colleague is using, so you either ship to all or
               | none.
               | 
               | So it seems Photoshop's UI is more of a cause of inertia
               | and resistance to change, rather than nailing right the
               | first time.
        
               | marginalia_nu wrote:
               | A/B testing does very little to improve any UX. It's got
               | merits in performance optimization, where the
               | implementation differs but the contract is static between
               | A and B, but with user interfaces, it generally leads to
               | pessimizations as usage is not proportional to
               | usefulness.
               | 
               | The rare exception is single-purpose interfaces where
               | increasing one singular interaction is an end in itself,
               | e.g. a marketing page, but that's a pretty unique case
               | that is very far removed from a productivity tool.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | You bring in testers and UI experts, and you have the
               | experts watch the testers.
               | 
               | Shipping to mass market is a bad way to get feedback.
        
               | Karunamon wrote:
               | Are there such a thing as UI experts anymore? It seems
               | like we only have designers left, and I am none too
               | thrilled about their influence.
        
               | eimrine wrote:
               | Qwerty is a significant brake in learning English from
               | scratch.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | How so?
               | 
               | And I'm pretty sure an alphabetical keyboard would do
               | much more harm than good, if that's the implied
               | alternative.
        
               | aredox wrote:
               | AZERTY is very bad and France is still stuck with it,
               | despite Quebec having a variant of QWERTY for decades,
               | ditto for Switzerland having a custom QWERTZ, and BEPO
               | being heads above.
        
               | beau_g wrote:
               | Use gimp, add a new layer, paste something into it, and
               | resize it, then you will know
        
               | frankharv wrote:
               | How about PhotoShop's Magic Lasso?
               | 
               | I have not found many tools that work as well and make
               | productivity great.
        
             | navjack27 wrote:
             | Hard to do when the power users for the most part try to
             | block analytics and the insider testers have very fluid
             | workflows and there is no such thing as death by a thousand
             | papercuts to them. They aren't getting the signal because
             | the people that should be telling them the signal are
             | actively denying sending the signal.
        
               | eimrine wrote:
               | Are you saying this about OS which shows ads in Start
               | menu?
        
             | turnsout wrote:
             | In Photoshop there are at least three completely different
             | dialog boxes [0] for saving an image as a JPEG, each with
             | totally different UI widgets and functionality.
             | 
             | They simply refuse to revise anything in the interface--
             | they just keep adding. It's the software equivalent of
             | hoarding.
             | 
             | [0] Save/Save as, Export As, Save for Web (Legacy)
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I'm ride-or-die on Save for Web (Legacy), it's the way to
               | go by far.
               | 
               | Now if they'd just integrate the tinypng plugin that was
               | deprecated in 2023 -
               | https://help.tinify.com/help/deprecation-of-the-
               | photoshop-pl...
        
               | turnsout wrote:
               | Same--I just wish they'd either drop the "(Legacy)" and
               | admit that they can never remove it, or add those same
               | features to the Export dialog!
        
           | kjellsbells wrote:
           | I cant speak for all PS users, but it's not that it is a
           | special UX so much that it is embedded in the muscle memory
           | of the user community, and that degree of familiarity
           | contributes mightily to people being able to get work done
           | quickly.
           | 
           | The closest example I cam think of, which people inside Adobe
           | most certainly know about, is the failed attempts by Quark
           | Xpress to update their product in the late 90s/early 00s,
           | which led to them losing a 95% market share position to Adobe
           | InDesign. You do not mess with the tools that a loud and
           | creative community rely upon to get their jobs done.
        
             | philistine wrote:
             | The only way Adobe can get out of this conundrum is by
             | announcing a transition to a new interface, finding ways to
             | incentivize schools to teach the new interface, while
             | keeping the old one around for as long as possible to give
             | time for the oldies to slowly retire. We're talking
             | decades.
        
               | basch wrote:
               | The user interface is extremely customizable. You can
               | have a default layout and still keep legacy ones around.
               | You wouldn't need to kill the legacy layout unless you
               | are removing the cuetomizability.
        
             | brazzledazzle wrote:
             | Adobe actually changed a bunch of shortcuts at least a
             | couple of points between photoshop 7 and creative cloud. I
             | remember how I'd developed muscle memory that took a bit to
             | fully overwrite.
        
               | tambourine_man wrote:
               | There are settings to revert them all
        
               | brazzledazzle wrote:
               | Yeah but I wanted to maintain "compatibility" with others
               | using the software whether for discussion's sake or so I
               | can hop on their workstation and not have to think about
               | changing anything. Turning those legacy settings on and
               | having that survive restarts could be flaky/buggy. I got
               | the impression keeping that functionality well tested
               | wasn't the highest thing on their development priorities.
        
               | tambourine_man wrote:
               | Adobe needs an easier and broader "settings" in the
               | cloud. It should be as easy as login in to have your
               | completely bespoke Photoshop greeting you.
        
             | bonaldi wrote:
             | _is the failed attempts by Quark Xpress to update their
             | product in the late 90s /early 00s_
             | 
             | There were a number of factors here - outsourcing
             | engineering leading to a disastrously buggy 4.0, then
             | failing to move to OS X for years after the market was
             | ready to, hostile and arrogant approach to customers
             | ("where else will they go?") and finally the misbegotten
             | attempt to turn a DTP app into a web design tool. InDesign
             | 1 was fairly clunky, but everyone was desperate to escape.
             | 
             | It's an Amiga-like shambles of mismanagement that wasted an
             | early lead; I am still nostalgic for both tbh.
        
               | frankharv wrote:
               | I don't know if I agree about InDesign being clunky.
               | 
               | The problem was everybody liked PageMaker7 and nobody
               | wanted something new.
               | 
               | How about Audacity? The clowns simply bought CoolEdit and
               | renamed it. Very innovative.
        
               | invalidlogin wrote:
               | Audacious.
        
               | frankharv wrote:
               | Whoops I meant Adobe Audition=CoolEditPro
        
             | nprateem wrote:
             | Intellij are about to learn this lesson unfortunately.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | Considering how many complaints about GIMP UI being bad with
           | no more substance than "Just compare it to Photoshop!", I'd
           | bet 65% on option B.
        
           | bufferoverflow wrote:
           | As someone, who used Photoshop a lot, the UI/UX is good. It
           | would be pretty hard to make it significantly better. And
           | yes, even if you somehow made it better, many users would
           | complain, because they have muscle memory of the UX, and are
           | extremely efficient with it.
        
           | maxglute wrote:
           | It would be curious to see UX timeline of what PS influenced,
           | and what influenced it, in mouse age. A lot of desktop
           | derivative products seem to hold on PS-like UI, it's all very
           | mutually reinforcing. I'm not sure what iPad UX is like. I
           | remember autocad products also adding ribbon system and it
           | wasn't end of the world, but also very few ppl that I know
           | end up migrating.
           | 
           | Part of me feels like it's... either very optimal for masses
           | to learn because very few PSers (outside of photography) I
           | know have professional peripherals (some have hotkey stickers
           | on keycaps), vs lots of other creative fields have
           | specialized decks/hardware to make streamline workflow.
           | 
           | Like part of me feels like there is a better physical
           | hardware implmentation to manipulate all the
           | curves/histograms other than moving around with mouse, but
           | mouse+keyboard is... good enough.
        
             | bonaldi wrote:
             | A lot of PS 1.0's UI (2-col toolbox on the left etc) owes
             | its heritage to MacPaint, which was a launch app for the
             | Mac. Even the iPad shares keyboard shortcuts set by the
             | original Mac, though has considerably broken away in other
             | aspects.
        
           | bonestamp2 wrote:
           | When Photoshop went subscription I bought the full version of
           | CS6 (or whatever the last non-subscription version was). It
           | was very expensive. Then when that stopped working on Mac, I
           | tried using every reasonable competitor, paid for several.
           | I'm sure some of them are very competent tools, but it was a
           | nightmare trying to learn a new UI. I bit the bullet and
           | started paying the subscription.
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | Just downgrade? I still use some version from 2022, the first
         | M1-compatible one that was cracked. Still as snappy as it was 2
         | years ago.
        
         | ompogUe wrote:
         | Not sure if you worked with it in the early '90's, but on a Mac
         | w/4MB of RAM, it took ~5-10 minutes to undo a Guassian Blur.
         | The pain was real.
         | 
         | The way to go back then was the SGI Indigo w/96MB.
         | 
         | It worked best for me in the late '90's on a 9500, and even
         | then needed an entire GB of RAM.
        
           | alamortsubite wrote:
           | Ha! In the early '90's the way to go was Live Picture [1]!
           | Your undo would have been instantaneous!
           | 
           | Unfortunately, Live Picture only ran on Mac. Photoshop was a
           | bit janky on SGI back then, IIRC, but still the better of the
           | two platforms overall.
           | 
           | [1] http://lensgarden.com/uncategorized/live-picture-
           | software-th...
        
             | ompogUe wrote:
             | Yes, I remember Live Picture! It was slick. I actually
             | spent more time in that and Fractal Design Painter, than
             | Photoshop back then.
        
             | huxley wrote:
             | Hahaha that's Old School.
             | 
             | Live Picture was one of several photo compositor tools that
             | focused on Photoshop's pain points. Fauve Matisse was a
             | little earlier than Live Picture and I believe it
             | introduced layers to Mac photo editing. They ended up
             | getting acquired by Macromedia (or perhaps even Macromind)
             | after a rewrite to compete with Live Picture it was renamed
             | Xres and then abandoned.
        
           | apercu wrote:
           | "SGI Indigo". I had one of these. Not for Photoshop but
           | still...
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | "Indy: an Indigo without the 'go'". -- Mark Hughes (?)
             | 
             | http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-
             | haters/tirix/embarrassi...
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | > There are too many daemons. In a vanilla 5.1
               | installation with Toto, there are 37 background
               | processes.
               | 
               | Comparing the output of `ps aux` on a default install of
               | Debian and OpenBSD still gives me this feeling:)
        
               | nullhole wrote:
               | Excellent joke.
               | 
               | Indy still had the best looking case, though, I think.
               | There's something about that sliced-box appearance that's
               | so unexpected and interesting.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | The Messy Middle is an incredible book that essentially details
         | how the CEO of BeHance, back in the day, rewrote Adobe's
         | offering for the cloud, and detailed how he'd do it.
         | 
         | Scott Belsky - now investor himself - writing how he sold both
         | BeHance and Adobe down the road for the rent economy.
         | 
         | I say The Messy Middle is an incredible book, but it is shelf
         | help for dwindling execs.
         | 
         | To their generic credit, the open source scene for artistry and
         | imagery is better than it ever was, because everybody has been
         | priced out of the pro tools that actually can't keep up without
         | community support.
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | Back in 1997-98 we had Pentium II machines (450mhz) with fast
         | SCSI drives and 128 MB of ram that were fast Photoshop
         | machines. I also remember it being pretty fast on the G3 Mac's
         | when they first came out.
        
           | MenhirMike wrote:
           | > I also remember it being pretty fast on the G3 Mac's when
           | they first came out.
           | 
           | One of the comments that Steve Jobs made in the Boston 1997
           | speech was "No one at Apple has reached out to Adobe to ask
           | how to build the ultimate Photoshop machine" - and in the
           | next few years, Photoshop benchmarks were a key Mac vs Intel
           | comparison during his keynotes.
           | 
           | I don't know if Jobs already had influence on the original
           | beige Power Macintosh G3, but he really seemed to care about
           | Photoshop performance when he arrived.
        
       | Rufus_Tuesday wrote:
       | Anybody remember BarneyScan XP?
        
       | dlachausse wrote:
       | Kudos to companies that are releasing the source code to antique
       | versions of their software. I hope more companies do so in the
       | future.
       | 
       | Unfortunately I fear that much of this source code has been lost
       | to time and multiple serial acquisitions over the years. Also,
       | wide spread use of version control is a fairly recent phenomenon,
       | so much of this source code if it still exists at all is on
       | random tape backups and floppy disks or printouts in binders.
        
         | fermigier wrote:
         | https://www.softwareheritage.org/
         | 
         | "We collect and preserve software in source code form, because
         | software embodies our technical and scientific knowledge and
         | humanity cannot afford the risk of losing it.
         | 
         | Software is a precious part of our cultural heritage. We curate
         | and make accessible all the software we collect, because only
         | by sharing it we can guarantee its preservation in the very
         | long term."
         | 
         | (Founded by a friend, Roberto Di Cosmo).
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | I feel like, if some organization like the Internet Archive
         | were to offer a "software source-code time-delayed-publication
         | escrow service" (with real boilerplate legal contracts
         | punishing early leaks), a lot of companies would take them up
         | on it.
         | 
         | I imagine such a service could be pretty automated/low-touch.
         | One way it could work:
         | 
         | 1. you mirror your git repos to a private server the software-
         | conservation org controls.
         | 
         | 2. The software-conservation org then sets up matching public
         | repos, initially empty.
         | 
         | 3. Every hour, an agent runs, that scans all the private repos
         | for commits _with commit timestamps older than ten years_ (or
         | whatever each company has signed on for as a release period);
         | and syncs just those commits, into that repo 's matching public
         | repo.
         | 
         | 4. Refs are then also synced, but rewritten, as if `git filter-
         | branch` had been run to remove all commits less than ten years
         | old. Any refs that are empty after filtering are dropped.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | wonder if anybody has it up on github
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | Does the zip file not work?
        
         | peterjmag wrote:
         | Somebody pushed it up here: https://github.com/amix/photoshop
         | 
         | But that might be violating the Computer History Museum's
         | license:
         | https://github.com/amix/photoshop/blob/2baca147594d01cf9d17d...
        
           | SushiHippie wrote:
           | > But that might be violating the Computer History Museum's
           | license:
           | 
           | Yep, TFA includes this sentence:
           | 
           | > To download the code you must agree to the terms of the
           | license, which permits only non-commercial use and does not
           | give you the right to license it to third parties by posting
           | copies elsewhere on the web.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I remember seeing Photoshop, when it was pre-Adobe, in a
       | hospital, in Ann Arbor.
       | 
       | I thought it was amazing.
       | 
       | One note: I'm almost certain that the version of MacApp (the
       | Apple Pascal app framework) was still in beta, at the time.
       | 
       | I used some of Tom Knoll's code (a B-spline algorithm), as a base
       | for a curve editor. He had done some work as a contractor for the
       | company I worked at.
        
       | butchlugrod wrote:
       | Great write-up here about what it takes to build the app from
       | this source code:
       | http://basalgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_V...
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Blown away as I read more posts on this site. Not many people
         | out there with this sort of knowledge. Thanks for the link.
        
           | butchlugrod wrote:
           | I know! I have read every piece on the site, and they really
           | go into some fantastic detail about old Apple stuff. No idea
           | who this person it, and they have not posted in a few years,
           | but would love to know more about their background. Almost
           | certainly a developer inside Apple in the 80s and 90s.
        
         | internetter wrote:
         | Anyone having trouble adding this to their feed reader? The RSS
         | works fine on my end, but Miniflux says                  This
         | website is too slow and the request timed out: Get "http://basa
         | lgangster.macgui.com/RetroMacComputing/The_Long_View/rss.xml":
         | dial tcp 209.182.219.107:80: i/o timeout
        
           | hexagonwin wrote:
           | seems to work just fine for me. maybe it was a temporary
           | issue?
        
       | divyenduz wrote:
       | Is there a youtube channel or something that does deep dives into
       | antique source code like this or windows XP?
        
       | kasajian wrote:
       | I remember traveling to Adobe in the mid-90s to exchange source-
       | code with them, 'cause PhotoShop was MacApp based, and they had a
       | layer working on Windows. And we traded an in-process SQL engine.
       | 
       | I recall brining home some of the code, there were definitely
       | parts of PhotoShop that were included, but not a lot. Just some
       | funky color-space calculations that we ignored.
       | 
       | I'm looking forward to looking at the source to see if there's
       | any remnants of MacApp in the mix. They may have changed
       | everything since the mid 90s. Who knows.
        
         | irq wrote:
         | I love this story - code trading is such a cool idea, and one I
         | haven't heard of much before. Anyone else have any code trading
         | stories?
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | in academia/research, it's quite normal. often you wish they
           | hadn't given you the code and provided an equation instead.
        
         | mk_stjames wrote:
         | They call that out as an exception specifically actually: "All
         | the code is here with the exception of the MacApp applications
         | library that was licensed from Apple"
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | MacApp on Windows ?!! of course.. what a bloatware.. Think
         | Class Library saved the life of lots of devs. Greg Dow might
         | still work for Adobe today. ps- PowerPlant was even better than
         | TCL now thinking on it..
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPlant
        
       | smburdick wrote:
       | John Knoll was the FX lead for the Star Wars prequels, and went
       | on to direct Rogue One.
       | 
       | The behind the scenes documentaries for the prequels have aged
       | well: https://youtu.be/da8s9m4zEpo?si=5y5gHUMxztwVzMny
        
         | hondo77 wrote:
         | VFX supervisor, exec producer, and story by, but not director
         | of Rogue One: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3748528/reference/
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | There's a multi-part series "Light & Magic" on ILM available on
         | Disney+ that I really enjoyed.
         | 
         | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19896784/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_...
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Adobe Photoshop 1.0.1 Source Code (2013)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17132058 - May 2018 (200
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Photoshop 1.0 Source Code_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5215737 - Feb 2013 (78
       | comments)
        
       | Exuma wrote:
       | I looked at the source code but I wish I could understand what
       | makes it beautifully elegant. I was pondering this question
       | before as I was learning rust, and how tricky it was (decision
       | overload) to make just a snake game (regarding code structure). I
       | then was thinking how one would build a UI, functions which
       | operate on a "space", and I thought of photoshop specifically, or
       | 3d studio max. So finding this repo was really cool, except I
       | simply just don't understand it.
       | 
       | If anyone knows of good resource I could learn code structure
       | LMK! I find it interesting just from a learning perspective, as I
       | always try to increase my design pattern chops
        
         | logdahl wrote:
         | I can't say much about this code or your personal background,
         | but my honest opinion is to take a step back and examine the
         | principles.
         | 
         | I used to be very bothered by abstractions, design patterns and
         | structure. But I realized that when I worked with 'true'
         | imperative code (forget classes for a while), keeping all code
         | in the same file, the code started to structure itself. I am
         | not saying this is the only way, but I feel like OOP can be a
         | hinderance, as you get bogged down by alternatives.
        
       | mentos wrote:
       | I wonder what the biggest semantic similarities are between the
       | source code of the first 1990s Photoshop and today's.
        
       | shivanshu120 wrote:
       | Great article written on some of the best code out there in the
       | market.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | best code? Have you ever read people's thoughts on the PSD
         | format? I know the two are not the same, but it does make you
         | wonder how the PSD issues do not present in the app's code as
         | well.
        
           | anemoknee wrote:
           | I haven't myself, but I'm interested to see what folks are
           | thinking. Any resources you can share?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I'll just leave these here:
             | 
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/n7auu6/psd_is_n
             | o...
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=575122
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | If I was going to complain about Photoshop it is that it does
           | most operations in the chosen color space (say sRGB) instead
           | of linear light. This is certainly wrong for operations that
           | are physically motivated like blurs even if people sometimes
           | like the result.
        
       | supportengineer wrote:
       | I prefer Photon Paint or DeluxePaint
        
       | pmcjones wrote:
       | In the aughts I worked at Adobe and spent time trying to archive
       | the source code for Photoshop, Illustrator, PostScript, and other
       | apps. Thomas Knoll's original Mac floppy disk backups were
       | available, so I brought in my Mac Plus, with a serial cable to
       | transfer the files to a laptop via Kermit. The first version was
       | 0.54, dated 6 July 1988. The files on the floppies were in
       | various ancient compressed archive formats, but most were
       | readable. I created an archive on a special Perforce server of
       | all the code that I found. Sadly, the earliest Illustrator
       | backups were on a single external disk drive that had gone bad.
        
         | xd1936 wrote:
         | Thank you for your service. Super cool project. Hopefully they
         | make their way to archive.org or Github someday.
        
           | pmcjones wrote:
           | Adobe has the only copy, and they have donated early versions
           | of PostScript (https://computerhistory.org/blog/postscript-a-
           | digital-printi...) and Photoshop; people should ask Adobe to
           | release more. Everything I find in the public domain I post
           | at https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects .
        
             | mistrial9 wrote:
             | isn't the topic the Patents, not the code? The code is
             | mired in Mac toolbox details, no?
        
               | reaperman wrote:
               | Even the parents from 1988-2000 would be well expired now
        
               | irrational wrote:
               | Poor moms and dads.
        
             | jart wrote:
             | Wow are you the one that posted the original LISP 1.5
             | source code? I colorized that and used it to good effect in
             | my blog posts. https://justine.lol/sectorlisp/#listing
        
               | pmcjones wrote:
               | I beat the bushes for the source code, documenting my
               | finds
               | (https://mcjones.org/dustydecks/archives/category/lisp/)
               | and posting them (https://www.softwarepreservation.org/pr
               | ojects/LISP/lisp15_fa...), but the early work was done by
               | Jack Harper, Pascal Bourguignon, Rich Cornwell and Bob
               | Abeles, Andru Luvisi, Angelo Papenhoff, Al Kossow, and
               | others.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | the Illustrator guy was in Palo Alto and approachable .. at the
         | time the feedback was that the interface interactions were not
         | great .. hard to say now, but Freehand became popular quickly,
         | then folded.
        
           | pmcjones wrote:
           | Mike Schuster, who by the way is a superb programmer.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | "We developed it originally for our own personal use...it was a
       | lot a fun to do"
       | 
       | I honestly do not think anything cool has ever been built due to
       | capitalism. Great ideas to great products are just musings.
        
       | wezdog1 wrote:
       | That pronunciation of Photoshop bugs me. Not everyone has an
       | American accent.
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | I was looking for a freeish alternative for mac, but so far only
       | found Photopea which is online but has an almost identical
       | interface. Works pretty good basic things, but kind of bad at
       | removing a background. So still searching ...
        
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