[HN Gopher] New gel breaks down alcohol in the body
___________________________________________________________________
New gel breaks down alcohol in the body
Author : geox
Score : 76 points
Date : 2024-05-14 11:46 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ethz.ch)
(TXT) w3m dump (ethz.ch)
| jjgreen wrote:
| ... _convert alcohol in the intestine into harmless acetic acid
| before it enters the bloodstream._
|
| You could put it on your chips post-pub and eliminate the need
| for vinegar!
| tguvot wrote:
| pretty sure it's what zbiotics do
| striking wrote:
| Zbiotics targets acetaldehyde, not ethyl alcohol. From the
| article:
|
| > The gel shifts the breakdown of alcohol from the liver to the
| digestive tract. In contrast to when alcohol is metabolised in
| the liver, no harmful acetaldehyde is produced as an
| intermediate product," explains Professor Raffaele Mezzenga
| from the Laboratory of Food & Soft Materials at ETH Zurich.
| Acetaldehyde is toxic and is responsible for many health
| problems caused by excessive alcohol consumption.
|
| Using this gel would manifest as simply not being as
| intoxicated, whereas Zbiotics is intended to allow for
| intoxication but prevent the hangover afterwards.
| tguvot wrote:
| i meant conceptually even if mechanism of action is
| different.
| striking wrote:
| Sure, if the difference between being intoxicated and not
| is merely conceptual to you. For me it is not, but to each
| their own.
| throwup238 wrote:
| _> In the future, people who take the gel could reduce the
| harmful and intoxicating effects of alcohol._
|
| I understand harm reduction but what is the point of reducing the
| _intoxicating_ effects of alcohol? What 's the point?
| sva_ wrote:
| Yeah people who want that could just drink beer with a low
| alcohol content (so called "alcohol-free beer", which usually
| still has some 0.5%)
| colecut wrote:
| To drive home? =)
| zolbrek wrote:
| I would love a supplement with that effect. It's not always
| fun having to slowly sober up while watching your friends
| drinking.
| alamortsubite wrote:
| Non-alcoholic beer sales are close to $40B/year globally and
| going up. Generally speaking, the flavor of non-alcoholic beer
| pales in comparison to the real thing.
|
| Then there's also the market for wine and spirits.
| 2024throwaway wrote:
| There are some new, very good, NA beers on the market these
| days. Untitled Art and Athletic are two brands that are doing
| great work.
| ahahahahah wrote:
| Yes, those both make some good NA beers. I wouldn't
| categorize them as good beers, but they are drinkable.
| alamortsubite wrote:
| Yes, those are great for NA beers (De Halve Maan's Brugse
| Sportzot is better). Unfortunately, they're mediocre among
| normal beers.
| ravenstine wrote:
| > Generally speaking, the flavor of non-alcoholic beer pales
| in comparison to the real thing.
|
| Ehhh... that's a bit of an overstatement, though I mostly
| agree.
|
| I just happened to be doing a crapload of bar hopping this
| last month and got into trying different non-alcoholic beers
| because they're way more prevalent than they used to be.
|
| They're certainly a lot better than the nonalcoholic beers of
| yore. And it's also obvious that you're not drinking a
| traditional beer. Undoubtedly, it has to do with the lack of
| ethanol present, but I can't help but think it's got to do
| with the process of producing them. Nonalcoholic beers, from
| what I've noticed, are usually much less foamy than alcoholic
| beer.
|
| I will generally still drink alcoholic beer since I don't
| seem to have alcoholism in me, but I think it's great that
| people are being given options. When I was younger, I really
| hated it when people would pressure me to drink or act like
| I'm an alien for not wanting to drink, and nonalcoholic beer
| is inconspicuous enough that people can drink socially
| without the peculiar attitude. Although that attitude _seems_
| to have largely gone away anyway.
| postcynical wrote:
| There's this Danish startup that claims they can put the
| missing flavour back into the beer using their enzymes:
|
| https://evodiabio.com/yops/
| https://science.ku.dk/english/press/news/2022/researchers-
| ma...
| triceratops wrote:
| Why drink grain juice when you could drink fruit juice?
| joekrill wrote:
| There's many occasions where I don't want to drink, but not
| doing so can make things uncomfortable. It's unfortunate, but
| there's lots of occasions where abstaining can make other
| people uncomfortable, or cause them to give you a hard time, or
| any number of other things. I would love to be able to take
| something that allows me drink but with none of the side
| effects, just to avoid potential uncomfortable situations.
| Again, I'm not condoning the behavior and it's unfortunate that
| this is how society is sometimes. But it would be nice to have
| this option.
|
| There's also people who have difficulty controlling their
| drinking once they start. This would certainly help in those
| scenarios.
|
| Another example is a situation where a woman may be pregnant so
| doesn't want to drink, but may not be far enough along that she
| wants people to know. Not drinking would get people wondering,
| but drinking could harm the fetus. I don't know if this gel
| would make drinking safe in that scenario - but if it does,
| that would be a great situation to use it in.
| FredPret wrote:
| If people are uncomfortable with you not drinking, that's
| very much on them
| joekrill wrote:
| Agreed. And ideally that shouldn't matter. But in the real
| world there are other consequences and side effects. Maybe
| I don't want to make them uncomfortable. Maybe I just don't
| want to deal with the nagging, "busting my chops", or the
| questions about why I'm not drinking. Maybe I want to avoid
| some preconceived notions certain people may have about
| people who don't drink. So even if it's on them, there are
| still personal reasons I may want to avoid the situation.
| FredPret wrote:
| People will take their cue from you as to how to respond.
| If you act embarrassed about it, they'll react
| accordingly. If it's no big deal to you, same thing for
| them.
|
| I quit cold turkey years ago. I was worried about the
| same things. But even my most macho & hard-drinking
| friends just accepted it without comment.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I encountered a lot of peer pressure to drink when I was
| in college. (I didn't drink much because a lot of alcohol
| makes my stomach upset.)
|
| Don't surround yourself with people who make you
| uncomfortable. It's a lesson I realized as I got older:
| It has little to do with drinking; but if the people
| around you make you feel uncomfortable not drinking, then
| you're around the wrong people.
| FredPret wrote:
| > Don't surround yourself with people who make you
| uncomfortable.
|
| I wish I learnt this at age 0. This goes for online life
| as well.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Stop giving in to peer pressure. You'll be happier.
| hn72774 wrote:
| Club soda with lime. No one knows there's not vodka in it but
| you.
| colecut wrote:
| Club soda and bitters has been a recent goto
| Tepix wrote:
| > There's many occasions where I don't want to drink, but not
| doing so can make things uncomfortable.
|
| People don't care as much if/what others drink as you think.
| emmanuel_1234 wrote:
| From alcohol, I love:
|
| - drinking it: I really enjoy the feeling of just ingesting
| beer, wine or spirits, especially with friends or family
|
| - having a nice buzz from it.
|
| However, those two things are, for me, incompatible. If I start
| drinking a little bit, I usually don't stop until I'm way
| beyond the "nice buzz". As the joke goes, "one beer is not
| enough, two beers are just enough, three beers really aren't
| enough".
|
| Having something that would allow me to keep drinking without
| jeopardizing my body, my mind, and the day after would be a
| huge game changer.
| CaptainOfCoit wrote:
| Sounds like maybe the "alcohol free"/"0.0%" beer (not really
| 100% alcohol free) is something you should try. Tastes and
| looks like beer, but doesn't come with the buzz (which is the
| thing that your brain hooks into and uses to tell you it
| isn't enough yet).
| iamthirsty wrote:
| > Tastes and looks like beer
|
| I have tried almost every major non-alcoholic beer in the
| U.S., and none of them truly taste exactly like beer.
| pjot wrote:
| There's a brand I've seen in stores called "Athletic" and
| it's nearly indistinguishable
| badgersnake wrote:
| Over in the UK I think Adnams Ghost Ship 0.5% is the best
| one commonly available that I've had. Most of them are
| far too sweet.
| swozey wrote:
| Microdosing psilocybin (shrooms) is amazing at letting me go
| out and just have 1-2 beers while still giving the slight
| affect of a nice anxiety-free buzz. I'm what I'd call a
| nervous drinker. I'm ADHD and sitting still can be rough for
| me, so at bars I tend to drink a lot very fast because the
| only fidgeting I can do without looking strange is .. cup to
| face over and over.
|
| Obviously not something everyone wants to do or can do, it's
| legal for me, but it's great for basically taking my interest
| in alcohol away after a beer or two. Microdosing is usually
| 1/10th or less what a "normal" light dose would be (going
| with 1-2g dose here, so 0.1/0.2). No
| weird/visual/hallucination effects or anything like that.
|
| You just feel a bit lighter and relaxed. Been a big game
| changer for me since I go out all the time. A bunch of my
| service industry friends and I do it and they've all started
| drinking significantly less.
|
| Naltrexone is great too but it's probably easier to get
| someone to microdose than ask their doctor for that which is
| unfortunate. You won't get a buzz with that, you'll just get
| bored of drinking by your 2nd beer and move on to doing other
| things which can also be nice at times.
| Maximus9000 wrote:
| Take this gel at the end of the night so that you don't have a
| hangover the next day?
| aredox wrote:
| Alcohol is a solvent for many flavours. That's why you have a
| lot of it in perfumes, and that's why alcohol-free drinks don't
| taste as good as the originals. In Europe, we drink a lot of
| alcohol with food exactly for that reason (wine dissolves the
| fats of the sauce or just the meat and mixes and enhances the
| taste).
|
| I'd really like to enjoy it without any drunkenness afterwards
| nor any effect on my health.
| pavlov wrote:
| Yeah, if there was a product that would let me enjoy real
| wine but the effect of the alcohol would be similar to a 3%
| mild beer, I would use that fairly often. A typical wine at
| 11-12% is a bit too strong for many situations.
| rfrey wrote:
| The hardest part of reducing my alcohol consumption is that I
| love red wine so much. The flavor, the aroma, the acidity,
| everything. I have stopped drinking all alcohol except red wine
| because of the health effects. I would be delighted to have a
| way to drink wine without any intoxication.
| testless wrote:
| Red wine being healthy is a myth.
|
| But misunderstood, see below...
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| GP is saying they have stopped drinking most alcohol (all
| except red wine) because of the [negative] health effects.
| rpmisms wrote:
| It has health benefits. The alcohol in it is no better for
| you than any other alcohol.
| odiroot wrote:
| To enjoy consuming alcoholic drinks without being intoxicated?
| DennisP wrote:
| It's great for spies. As I've learned from movies, it's
| important for them to hold their booze better than their
| sources.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| Something to sober you up if you're already drunk would be
| amazing, but I don't think this will do that
| aantix wrote:
| Sulforaphane.
|
| Take something like Broccomax - or eat lots of Brussels
| sprouts, and broccoli.
| zolbrek wrote:
| Should I take it when I'm ready to sober up or before
| drinking as well if I want to make sure I don't get too drunk
| but still have a good buzz?
| aantix wrote:
| Take it a couple of hours before drinking.
|
| You won't feel as drunk and will have less of a hangover.
| zolbrek wrote:
| Thanks, I'll give it a go.
| voisin wrote:
| What about all the other negative impacts though - like
| liver impact and blood pressure. Isn't it better to just
| moderate your drinking rather than drinking to excess and
| then dialing back the feel of it with broccoli?
| iamthirsty wrote:
| Probably.
| eps wrote:
| An older method is to eat a couple of tablespoons of
| butter 30 min before the first drink. Works quite well to
| reduce the effects of alcohol.
| lukan wrote:
| Or any other food with lots of fat. The fat makes the
| body absorb the alcohol slower.
|
| And drinking lots of water just before sleeping greatly
| reduces hangovers.
|
| What also works, is drinking in moderation ..
| cvdub wrote:
| Agreed, not seeing many good use cases. It could be prescribed
| to alcoholics who can't/won't stop drinking to help them taper
| off alcohol, but people would just end up drinking more to
| counter it.
|
| The best use I can think of is for undercover agents to drink
| heavily and avoid intoxication!
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| That's enough of a good use case! It would have made my
| college years much better...
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > Something to sober you up if you're already drunk would be
| amazing ...
|
| But it's the fun of alcohol!
|
| What'd be amazing would be something that really works against
| the headaches and/or prevent vomiting. Basically something for
| the next day or even the next two days (when you get old, if
| you party too hard it can take _two days_ to feel good again: I
| hate it so at 50 I very rarely party hard anymore: maybe once a
| year).
| hylaride wrote:
| Hangovers are a good part caused by by the body reacting to
| the "damage" that alcohol does: - Alcohol
| loosens the blood vessels, whereas a lot of the effects of a
| hangover are caused by the body then "over-constricting" when
| the aclohol goes away, causing headaches and nausea. The
| cause of the headache is similar for a brain-freeze from too
| much ice cream causing the veins in your neck and throat to
| constrict, though the brain-freeze goes away as you warm back
| up. - There's also the dehydration as alcohol throws
| off the balance of water in your system as it makes you want
| to pee more, but interferes with the body's ability to
| actually absorb water. - Alcohol causes your body to
| pump out more "feel good" hormones, which then lead to a
| crash later.
|
| So the way to prevent a hangover is to not get drunk in the
| first place, same as always. If you want to drink and limit
| the effects of alcohol (including the initial "benefits")
| then this has potential. It may prevent vomiting in the sense
| that vomiting is your body trying to eject the poison as it's
| building up faster than it can process it (eg when you're
| already trashed an on the train to hangoverville).
|
| However, people often tend to drink for the "good" effects
| that this gel prevents. If what you want is alcohol's fun,
| then you're going to need another cure (essentially an IV
| drip, and drugs to replace the hormones and loosen your blood
| vessels - all of which are not readily available for other
| good reasons).
| bradleyjg wrote:
| > But it's the fun of alcohol!
|
| For a while it is. But sometimes you don't want to keep being
| drunk.
|
| Maybe you want to drive home, or your childcare ends, or you
| just have other things to do that day.
|
| If I could just end the whole thing at will, including the
| hangovers you mention, that would be ideal.
| neves wrote:
| I'd love to take one of these when I'm going home. There's no
| use to keep absorving alcohol when I want to go to sleep.
| voisin wrote:
| I find marijuana to be the fun of alcohol without the impacts
| you mention.
| beeboobaa3 wrote:
| > maybe once a year
|
| you sure you didn't just lower your tolerance?
| psunavy03 wrote:
| Your tolerance naturally changes as you get older and the
| hangovers last longer.
| Arrath wrote:
| Its cyclical. The tolerance for hangovers and the
| recovery period went down (god do I hate it) therefore I
| drink less, thus I have a lower tolerance for alcohol.
| navaati wrote:
| > But it's the fun of alcohol!
|
| Meh, I like wine more and more and being drunk less and less,
| one is seriously limiting the other :)
| DennisP wrote:
| I'm the same way with whisky. I might have to imitate the
| professional tasters: just swirl and spit. Seems like a
| travesty but less so than letting my collection gather dust
| indefinitely.
| felipemnoa wrote:
| >>What'd be amazing would be something that really works
| >>against the headaches and/or prevent vomiting.
|
| If you start vomiting then you overdid it. Your body is
| trying to save you from poisoning. To prevent the headaches
| just drink lots of water.
| somesortofthing wrote:
| I have really awful genetics for drinking(I'm 23 and already
| experience the thing you're describing with taking multiple
| days to feel good again, and instead of physical symptoms I
| get crushing depression) so I'd love to just take some of
| this stuff before a night out to drink the same volume as
| other people without having to deal with the aftereffects.
| fluxist wrote:
| Dihydromyricetin[1] can accomplish this remarkably effectively.
| It's available on Amazon.
|
| Also works great for hangovers.
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292407/
| colechristensen wrote:
| I learned about this and it does work in my experience, best
| if taken both at the beginning and end of the night.
|
| While it doesn't alleviate all of the hangover symptoms it
| does nearly eliminate all of the most unpleasant ones.
| manmal wrote:
| Great suggestion. There is also Kislip, which seems to be
| based on probiotics and, like DHM, also helps metabolize
| acetaldehyde. Acetium (a Finnish product) also claims to
| lower acetaldehyde, but that might be a localized effect
| (mouth/nasopharynx + GI tract).
| dynm wrote:
| Just a warning to everyone: This effect doesn't seem to have
| much scientific support beyond the cited paper. Other work
| has followed up and was not able to replicate:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8603706/.
| losteric wrote:
| Note the study involves injections. The oral route is subject
| to digestion.
| m463 wrote:
| disulfiram will do it ... in a more philosophical sense. also
| known as antabuse.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram
|
| (if you take it, you will get sick if you drink alcohol)
|
| Personally, tequila works on me in a similar way when I smell
| it.
| dbbk wrote:
| Naltrexone is a good alternative to this that doesn't make
| you physically sick. It just dulls the effect to the point
| where you kinda just get bored of drinking.
| jawns wrote:
| If you're an alcoholic, and your body is physically dependent on
| alcohol consumption, would this allow you to satisfy your
| physical cravings without the deleterious effects normally
| associated with alcohol addiction? Kind of like how a nicotine
| patch helps satisfy the physical addiction?
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> breaks down alcohol in the gastrointestinal tract without
| harming the body.
|
| Likely no. This stuff will destroy the alcohol before it enters
| the bloodstream. So it sounds useful to stop people absorbing
| more alcohol (pumping the stomach situations) but won't do much
| for alcohol already in the blood and causing effects in the
| body.
| gus_massa wrote:
| Woudn't people just consume more alcohol to compensate the
| one destroyed by this invention? My guess is that some
| persons drink until they are drunk, not until they took N
| glasses of drinks.
| sctb wrote:
| That's exactly what benzodiazepines are for, but only for
| short-term taper protocols as the dependence/withdrawal profile
| over the long term is worse than alcohol. Medium-term can be
| covered by gabapentin.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| I know an alcoholic who was also addicted to gabapentin. It
| didn't reduce his alcoholism, and even when he tried to stop
| drinking, he would get stoned on the gabapentin (and was
| largely unaware of his diminished state)
| hn72774 wrote:
| No, there would be a risk of dt's, seizures, and death.
|
| Quitting alcohol requires medical supervision for those who are
| deep into alcohol use disorder.
| ginko wrote:
| I wonder how that would affect the calories of the alcohol.
| Apparently the ethanol gets broken down into acetic acid, which I
| believe can't be digested further? Does that mean you also
| wouldn't gain weight when drinking dry beer or wine?
|
| EDIT: Apparently acetic acid _does_ have calories. Didn't know
| that.
| mft_ wrote:
| Interesting question!
|
| From this article[0] it seems ~60% of the calories in lager
| come from the alcohol - presumably ~40% come from
| carbohydrates. And from Google, acetic acid is 349 kcal / 100g,
| versus pure ethanol at 700 kcal / 100g. So if this approach
| converted 100% of alcohol to acetic acid, you'd drop the
| calories from lager by ~30% overall. To your question, dry wine
| or lower-carb beer would be proportionally even better.
|
| The flip-side of this is perhaps consumption of too much acetic
| acid! It's impossible to calculate potential toxicity without
| understanding the strength of the acetic acid generated,
| though.
|
| [0]
| https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331119759_Nutrition...
| grujicd wrote:
| > Apparently acetic acid _does_ have calories. Didn't know
| that.
|
| Calories are measured by burning the substance. While it very
| precisely determines contained energy in the physics sense,
| it's a question whether all that energy is used by digestion?
| Especially if it's something the body treats as a toxin and
| wants to remove as soon as possible?
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I honestly don't "get" why someone would use this? It doesn't
| reverse intoxication, and it doesn't prevent alcohol from
| entering the bloodstream.
|
| I get that alcoholic drinks taste better than their non-alcoholic
| counterparts (frozen margaritas are so much better than slush
| puppies,) but this won't prevent the buzz / intoxication.
| jonwinstanley wrote:
| Agreed, something that can sober you up or reduce hangovers
| would be incredible.
| Tepix wrote:
| Just one example: Closing a business deal in China or Japan
| might require you to drink a lot of alcohol.
| JohnMakin wrote:
| This is precisely the first thing I thought of.
| aeturnum wrote:
| Depending on the time of action it could be very useful in
| addressing the "lag" in alcohol hitting your system. If someone
| is drinking heavily, they regularly reach an uncomfortable
| level of intoxication before all the alcohol in their stomach
| has been absorbed. This could help folks in that situation.
| teekert wrote:
| Alcohol is a drug, it can be addictive and it's a carcinogen.
| Sure fermented stuff is nice but you just shouldn't have too
| much. Just alternate a drink and water and don't drink much. Who
| needs a shitty gel in their body just to consume more poison?
| Show some discipline and restraint, tale good care of your body.
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| Have you ever struggled with addiction (food, drink, drugs,
| media, games, sleep, porn etc.)?
|
| I can't provide a study, but anecdotally I suspect nearly
| everyone does.
|
| > Show some discipline and restraint
|
| This is such unhelpful, unsympathetic advice.
| try_the_bass wrote:
| > This is such unhelpful, unsympathetic advice.
|
| I think writing this advice off as unhelpful is actually more
| harmful than offering it in the first place. I think this is
| very real and very helpful advice. Is it hard to follow?
| Speaking from experience: absolutely.
|
| Self-control is like a muscle: exercise it frequently, and it
| gets stronger. It also gets tired and needs rest, and it
| atrophies with disuse.
|
| And like exercise, it's almost always beneficial. Even folks
| with physical disabilities see very real benefits from
| exercise, even when it's hard and painful! I used to live
| next door to a man who walked with a cane and very obviously
| struggled to go up and down stairs... And yet any time I
| would offer him help, he would refuse, because he knew the
| effort would keep him as mobile and active as he could be,
| given his circumstances--and do accept that help would
| actually harm him in the long run by accelerating the decline
| in his abilities. I doubt I would have his level of
| discipline were I in his situation, and to this day I envy
| that of him.
|
| I think going so far as to say "telling someone to exercise
| self-control is unhelpful/unsympathetic" is exactly analogous
| to telling someone exercise is harmful. Not "too much
| exercise is harmful", but "any exercise is harmful", which is
| obviously untrue.
|
| I'll be the first to acknowledge that humans are innately
| lazy, and that exercise is hard/boring/inconvenient/whatever.
| However, we do no one justice by giving them reasons to
| excuse that laziness. Justifying a lack of internal
| effort/ability should be and explanation of last resort, not
| the baseline.
|
| Put differently: very few people are physically incapable of
| doing a pushup (or whatever other basic exercise you want to
| reference) due to actual physical limitations. Most who
| cannot simply haven't put in the work to reach the point
| where they _can_.
|
| [E] This turned out longer than I anticipated. It turns out I
| feel strongly about this, and feel like this is one of the
| most toxic aspects of the society I feel like I inhabit.
| People should be encouraged to push their abilities, not
| given excuses not to. It's all too easy to accept those
| excuses as truth, and this prevents us all from reaching our
| highest potential. This feels like a net harm to society and
| a driver of very real inequality
| KittenInABox wrote:
| > Self-control is like a muscle: exercise it frequently,
| and it gets stronger. It also gets tired and needs rest,
| and it atrophies with disuse.
|
| Addiction is not a matter of self-control.
| deelowe wrote:
| Few things are. The world would be a better place if
| people would try to help each other more.
| vl wrote:
| This gel, if anything, will enable addiction.
| reactordev wrote:
| Not everyone can self regulate or their body isn't the
| dependable vehicle yours is.
|
| This is for those people. Enjoy yourself and keep switching
| between white claws and water.
| jebarker wrote:
| I honestly wonder whether people would drink alcohol if there
| weren't intoxicating effects. What I mean is, does anyone really
| believe that alcohol is pleasant to drink or is that purely a
| trick of the mind/body to get you to satisfy the craving?
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| Plenty of people drink alcohol in moderation, e.g. only having
| 1-2 drinks at a social event, pairing a while for dinner,
| trying a new cocktail, etc.
| jebarker wrote:
| Sure, but maybe it's a really powerful drug that has a small
| effective dose for some people?
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| I have known some people to have an absurdly low tolerance
| (or at least act drunk after two standard drinks), but I
| don't think it's that common.
|
| I do have plenty of friends who drink in moderation simply
| because they enjoy the taste of beer/wine and almost never
| get drunk (they might drink enough to be drunk once a
| year).
|
| I think the comparison is most understandable when you
| compare alcohol to caffeine. Some people drink coffee for
| the sake of the caffeine, but some also just genuinely
| enjoy the taste/social aspect (hence why decaf exists).
| khazhoux wrote:
| Don't know how common it is, but my tolerance is super
| low.
|
| Even a single sip of wine, and I'll start to feel
| pressure in temples. One full glass and my head movement
| -> visual perception latency will be noticeable, and my
| words will start a bit getting in the order wrong. That
| one glass will also hit me like a sleeping pill within an
| hour. And if it's beer or red wine, I'll enjoy itchy
| arms, chest, and legs for a couple of hours.
|
| So partially a reaction to alcohol (the sleepiness for
| sure) and partially an allergic reaction to
| tannins/hops/etc.
|
| I love a riesling or a mint mojito, but I keep to
| probably one drink every few months... and then regret it
| all over again.
|
| On the other hand, there's so many alcoholics in my
| extended family and my best friends growing up, that I
| consider my body's rejection of alcohol to be a strong
| contributor to me being successful in life and work.
| sodapopcan wrote:
| I certainly don't speak for everyone but I certainly drank for
| the effects. I do like the flavour of beer but it was all about
| the effects. I could never have just one or two (which is why I
| no longer drink).
|
| Again, I don't speak for everyone. I do know people who drink
| frequently without ever getting drunk, but obviously even one
| drink has _some_ effect.
| swatcoder wrote:
| Fermentation, distillation, and aging can all create unique and
| incredibly rich flavors that may be very compelling on their
| own or as complements to other flavors in food and drink.
|
| Perhaps you haven't tried very many and haven't run into any
| you like, but they're sure out there. From a culinary
| perspective, it's no accident that wines and beers and spirits
| represent enormous industries around the world and have done so
| for centuries.
|
| If it was all just about getting tipsy or drunk, you'd expect
| there to be just a few "winners" of the market rather than the
| incredible variety we seem to have instead.
| jebarker wrote:
| I drink, probably too much, and feel like I enjoy the flavors
| of many different drinks. But I don't think that's evidence
| that it's not really just a chemical dependence. I certainly
| remember there was a time when I didn't enjoy the flavors I
| believe I do now.
|
| Your point about variety is good but, again playing devil's
| advocate, maybe that's necessary to keep drinking socially
| acceptable and sustain the illusion that there's more to it
| than just addiction?
|
| The most convincing argument though is that we do enjoy the
| flavors of fermented things that aren't intoxicating.
| abtinf wrote:
| I enjoy peaty Islay scotches. I can sip a single serving over
| an hour, savoring the flavor, with zero intoxicating effects.
| abtinf wrote:
| Non-alcoholic beer is an entire product category and popular in
| the Middle East. Russians have a fermented bread drink called
| Kvass that is <1% alcohol.
| abtinf wrote:
| Oh, and then there's kombucha.
| aeturnum wrote:
| It's both right? Alcohol is a dopaminergic[1] in all amounts.
| Your brain, to some degree, likes you drinking (which may be
| offset by side effects). A much smaller group of people
| genuinely enjoy the taste and physical experience of drinking
| alcohol. Non-alcoholic taste-matched substitutes are common.
|
| I strongly suspect that, if alcohol was banned, you would see a
| bigger market for taste-matched "mocktails" with the same
| sharp, chemical undertones. However, there's no market now
| because moderate drinkers can just get a drink and people who
| don't like they taste don't want them.
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826820/
| abtinf wrote:
| > no market
|
| Mocktail mixers are a small but readily available product,
| e.g. Seedlip.
| aeturnum wrote:
| Oh! That's great. The mocktails I've seen are generally
| complex, well-crafted drinks that are missing the bite that
| makes alcoholic drinks so satisfying to sip. I guess I need
| to check out more mocktails.
| noirbot wrote:
| It was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but alcohol is an
| amazing chemical for absorbing other potent flavors. It's why
| it's commonly used for herb extracts and medicines. Part of
| what I like about many alcoholic drinks is they have pungent
| flavors that are hard to find elsewhere. An herbal liquor is
| going to often have much stronger flavor of the herbs than
| you'd get from making a tea or a soda.
|
| There's also more diversity in the options because it's a
| natural preservative. Much easier for a store to stock niche-
| flavored spirits in small quantities when they functionally
| never go bad, which in turn helps keep a market for niche
| products that wouldn't exist if they needed steady high demand.
| Even something as popular as Fernet Branca doesn't really have
| a flavor equal in any other beverage class.
| adfm wrote:
| Jim Koch, founder and brewer of Sam Adams, says that he mixes a
| teaspoon of bakers yeast (not sure which) and yogurt to break
| down the alcohol before it hits the bloodstream and has been
| doing it for years if not decades.
|
| https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/al...
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Doesn't yeast _produce_ alcohol?
|
| edit: ah, I read TFA:
|
| > _" Yeast can degrade ethanol," says microbiologist Benjamin
| Tu of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. "But
| they love other sugars -- glucose, maltose -- more. When those
| sugars are around, the cells turn off the genes needed for
| alcohol degradation."_
| joshuahaglund wrote:
| One guy says it works. The rest of the article is about a small
| experiment that showed otherwise. Then it quotes experts who
| explain why it doesn't work and called it an urban legend.
| somesortofthing wrote:
| Hypothetically, if the yeast could work fast enough(I'm 99%
| sure it can't unless he's leaving the mixture in a sealed
| container for a few months before drinking it) wouldn't this
| result in straight vinegar
| patall wrote:
| Reminds me of Ro15-4513, an antagonist of alcohol that stop (some
| of) the symptoms of intoxication.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ro15-4513
| James_K wrote:
| Alcohol-free drinks already exist. They're a much easier sell
| than alcoholic drinks + some weird gel.
| _djo_ wrote:
| Maybe, but so what? If this enables people to have a few drinks
| after work in the evening and be fully sober for work the next
| day, I'm all for it.
|
| Also, anything that can rapidly break down alcohol in the body
| will help as a medical treatment for alcohol overdoses.
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| This seems to be useful for people who are either allergic to
| alcohol or who are trying to keep up or competitively pressure
| others into intoxication. Otherwise, it would be wiser to just
| avoid EtOH that has no safe lower intake threshold and is
| conspicuously expensive.
| hi-v-rocknroll wrote:
| Spy and drink competition ringer toolkit. Back it up with ~25
| year old hangover prophylaxis (2 before + 2 with ea drink)
| https://www.ru21.com/.
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