[HN Gopher] When Is a Counter-Strike Player Good?
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When Is a Counter-Strike Player Good?
Author : kqr
Score : 35 points
Date : 2024-05-10 11:09 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (two-wrongs.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (two-wrongs.com)
| incomingpain wrote:
| Counterstrike is identical to chess, there's tiers of players. I
| never made it to CAL-I but I was the tier below. When playing
| against CAL-I tier people, we'd get stomped on.
|
| Flipside, if I went to a pub, it's quite likely that I would
| stomp on everyone else. I still can do this in TF2 and
| tryharding.
|
| You can't go by KD ratio. Your opponents matter.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| This. I used to play pretty high level cs more then a decade
| ago. I can still join deathmatch games once every blue moon and
| usually come out on top.
| _the_inflator wrote:
| Ladder or ranking is the best overall performance indicator
| (given ideal conditions, no cheating).
|
| It is a system of averages. I was a top 80 player in Age of
| Empires: AoK and easily beat the crap out of everything from
| below the top 100.
|
| Above me, I could compete with most players on some maps on
| some days, top 50 would beat me in a best of five, but top 20
| usually eat me under competitive conditions.
|
| Most of them were already pro gamers back then and trained hard
| to maintain their ranking.
|
| It piles up. Micro management especially. Being constantly a
| couple of milliseconds faster in organizing stuff and decision
| making is like a formula 1 driver who is 0,5 faster per lap.
| Worlds apart with 60 rounds to take.
| StableAlkyne wrote:
| The other difference is that chess is a 1v1 game: the only
| person you can blame if you lose is yourself.
|
| Counterstrike is a team game, where (if the matchmaker was
| competetently designed) on average you shouldn't be able to
| carry your team. I think this contributes to a lot of toxicity,
| because it's very easy to find a cause for the loss that isn't
| your own skill.
|
| Imagine a team match of chess where everyone controls a couple
| pieces. At low brackets, you could know "tech" like en passant
| or underpromotion. You might have vague ideas like "control the
| center" and might know a few lines of theory. You might be
| screaming at the screen when a teammate castles into mate-in-3
| and blame them for your loss - even though you were the one who
| moved a pawn to h3 on turn 1.
| cinntaile wrote:
| [delayed]
| Rodeoclash wrote:
| After the mention of the Leetify website in the article, I'm
| going to shamelessly spruik my free open source eSports video
| analysis tool
|
| https://www.vodon.gg/
|
| It's not strictly for counterstrike but works with any captured
| video from games.
| asdfman123 wrote:
| I tried to get good at fpses back in the day but never did.
|
| I was however making decent progress at learning an instrument at
| the time (the French horn, if you must know) and thought there
| should be some sort of tool to learn the fundamentals of first-
| person video game shooting using time honored music practice
| techniques.
|
| The key to getting really killer music technique is to go _as
| smoothly and calmly as possible_ , over and over again, even if
| that means going at a fraction of the target speed.
|
| I would have liked to see an fps trainer that lets you practice
| shots at anywhere from 1/5th to 1x game speed, so you could
| master it at very slow speeds and gradually up the "tempo".
|
| (There are some very good trainer programs now in AD 2024, but
| none that I know of that let you manipulate speed like that.)
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
| ghosty141 wrote:
| I'd say I'm very proficient with FPS games. I also got to
| Global Elite in CS:GO. My take is that you mainly need two
| things, map awareness and aim. The first can only be acquired
| by playing A LOT. The latter too but the time it takes by
| playing gamemodes line Free For All Deathmatch where you get to
| practice the shooting aspect very frequently.
|
| If taken seriously I'm confident a player can get proficient
| within 500-800 hours of playtime. That sounds like a lot but
| with daily practice/playing ofr 1-2 hours its not that big of a
| deal.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| And talent. CS is one of the first times in my life I saw
| people try very hard at getting better. But it just didn't
| work. Like some people put in a fourth of their effort and
| they would still run circles around them.
| bloqs wrote:
| it's actually trait openness/ cognitive flexibility: https:
| //www.researchgate.net/publication/366388355_Cognitive....
| Rodeoclash wrote:
| This is available in some of the current FPS trainers, they
| often have a time scaling feature which will slow the target
| down.
| beretguy wrote:
| Wow, never knew about it! Can you please give a few examples?
| hhh wrote:
| when their mmr is above 80% of all other players
| abcde777666 wrote:
| The standards have gone up a lot over time. Your average player
| now knows who the tops teams are and watches them play. Vastly
| different from the early 2000s when just knowing to aim at heads
| set you apart.
|
| Even to be a top 10% player these days you need to either be a
| veteran or to practice for long hours.
|
| Must be hell for anyone new who wants to try the game!
| lwansbrough wrote:
| I'd like to think I have some domain knowledge here[0]. So here's
| my two cents: there is no performance-based stat that will tell
| you if you're good. Rank is the only thing that matters.
|
| There are however a lot stats that can tell you if you're good
| _amongst your peers in your current rank._
|
| The idea is that once your rank converges with your skill, your
| stats will trend towards the median.
|
| But the good news is, most players are interested in exactly
| that. They want to know how they're performing compared to
| players of a similar rank.
|
| This was the basis for our[1] Tracker Score performance rating,
| which grades player performance relative to players at their
| level (so both an Iron and a Radiant player can have similar
| ratings.)
|
| [0] https://tracker.gg [1] https://tracker.gg/articles/tracker-
| score-our-new-performanc...
| tflol wrote:
| according to all the opponents and team mates I had, everyone
| pretty good but me :)
| tuetuopay wrote:
| This is sad that the article goes on to explaining the crucial
| importance of smokes, flashbangs, etc while not focusing on them
| for analyzing games. In my own experience (nowhere near a great
| player), people that were the most valuable to a team where those
| knowing when not to shoot: peek to take info, throw some stuff to
| mess with the enemy, etc.
|
| With some friends we used another CS match analysis tool,
| scope.gg, and it took many of those things in action. It knew how
| to estimate your grenade/smoke/flash/molotov throws on how
| effective they were, your risk-taking (e.g. peek at a common
| place to get insta-headshotted), even your footsteps being heard
| by the opponent in stealth parts.
|
| Really, this tool was much more accurate than anything based on
| the metrics presented here. And it showed, because it
| consistently nominated one friend as the best one, which matched
| our experience, and myself as the worst one of the team, which
| also matched our experience :D
|
| Cool article nonetheless, and really show the issue with current
| counterstrike (and why I don't play it much anymore): the skill
| level is so high that you basically need tools to tell you your
| mistakes. Otherwise you're in for a truckload of frustration as a
| new player.
| szundi wrote:
| Back then I got the intellimouse explorer from microsoft, a nice
| precise mouse. Shot everyone in the head and kicked from all
| servers. Even Valve sent me a message that one more ban from a
| server and my account is frozen. End of CS for me that day.
| Thanks God
| crsv wrote:
| As someone who played professional CS in the 1.6-Source era this
| write up gave me a hearty chuckle. It must be what it feels like
| when a pro footballer reads a really intense parents write up on
| u12 tactics.
| thom wrote:
| Surprised at the small size of the dataset here. Surely it's
| possible to record thousands if not millions of results... has
| someone been able to do this? Seems like the simplest thing to do
| here would just be to develop some sort of plus/minus system and
| not try to overthink things. I work in sports analytics, and
| mostly in low scoring sports so we don't get to do that very
| often.
| haunter wrote:
| I'd rather read about why are russians bad. Or more like why are
| they are playing the way it is. When you need to eco > they rush
| B. When you need to save the round > they go back 1v3. But that
| not just in CS, they do the same in Dota too. They just play and
| see these games differently.
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