[HN Gopher] Selling 'Ghost in the Shell'
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Selling 'Ghost in the Shell'
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 198 points
       Date   : 2024-05-06 14:48 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (animationobsessive.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (animationobsessive.substack.com)
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | Ghost In The Shell suffers from really dragging in the middle.
       | 
       | There's a bunch a bunch of sequences which go on just way too
       | long for the total amount of plot in the film, and there's a lot
       | of missing context for the main character's motivation: we just
       | kind of get a couple big exposition dumps, but no real feel for
       | who the Major is or why the core conceit of the plot matters to
       | her.
       | 
       | The Stand Alone Complex series, conversely, is amazing.
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | Glad to hear that. I am about to get on the SAC wagon.
        
         | Malcolmlisk wrote:
         | I remember enjoying the episodes who were outside of the
         | central plot from SAC and SAC2. That episode when they explain
         | the past of the sniper character and how he got recruited by
         | the major was amazing and I watched it over and over.
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | It would make a great stand alone movie.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Now this is a matter of taste, but I _love_ the slow moments
         | where the film just pans over city scenes with no dialogue.
         | Just a little time to breathe and look at the art in the middle
         | of the action. It 's a film that posits a bunch of questions
         | about human vs machine and then declines to answer them in
         | favor of letting you think about them.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | I don't agree with you, but it's really sad that you're getting
         | downvoted for having an opinion and explaining it. I'd
         | understand it on Reddit, but this is HN, and it's supposed to
         | be better here.
        
         | bullfightonmars wrote:
         | I didn't get SAC back when it was on Adult Swim. Seeing it
         | randomly and out of order it seemed stale, slow, and too dense.
         | But watched in sequence it is a fantastic bit of scifi.
        
       | nanna wrote:
       | I feel like I haven't seen an anime in years that's been in the
       | same league as Akira or the great Miyazakis (Spirited Away,
       | Princess Mononoke, Totoro). Yes i'd be brutal and include
       | Miyazakis following works in that list, from Howls Moving Castle
       | to The Boy and the Heron. Ive seen lots of incredible animation,
       | sure, but nothing like the cinematic depth.
       | 
       | What am I missing? What should an old fart who's becoming
       | convinced things were better in the old days put myself infront
       | of?
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | There is good stuff out there. I watched Pantheon and
         | Scavengers Reign recently, both excellent, but not old stable
         | anime.
         | 
         | Scavengers Reign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWQH8cMpWTU
         | 
         | Pantheon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_HJ3TSlo5c
        
           | duggan wrote:
           | I'm slowly working my way through Scavengers Reign, it's
           | absolutely brilliant -- somewhere between Alien and Stanislaw
           | Lem's The Invincible.
        
             | chpatrick wrote:
             | It reminded me of Lem's Eden as well.
        
           | The5thElephant wrote:
           | Not enough people know about Pantheon.
           | 
           | However both Scavenger's Reign and Pantheon feel distinctly
           | different from Japanese anime. They have a much more Western
           | aesthetic eye visually, narratively, and especially in terms
           | of music I feel.
        
           | rapnie wrote:
           | Dammit, they are in other livestream imperiums than where I
           | dwell :(
        
             | cjk2 wrote:
             | There are other ways!
        
           | urza wrote:
           | Pantheon is amazing. Especially the ending.
        
           | giuseppe_petri wrote:
           | I've not seen Pantheon, but from the trailer it seems very
           | close to Neal Stephenson's "Fall, or Dodge in Hell".
        
         | austin-cheney wrote:
         | My favorite is Patlabor 2.
         | 
         | Here is the Japanese cultural explainer (spoiler):
         | https://youtu.be/ybLKmO5Kq5A?si=bzIEK436EeWF_o5s
        
           | flobosg wrote:
           | I haven't watched it yet, but reading this article a while
           | ago got me interested:
           | 
           |  _' Patlabor 2: The Movie' has stunningly realistic aerial
           | combat_ - https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/realistic-
           | aerial-combat-m...
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | I didn't understand why people kept recommending this until I
           | spotted that the director is Mamoru Oshii, director of GitS.
           | It's perfectly reasonable as a standalone film without having
           | seen 1. And it's good in the same ways as GitS; mix of
           | action, political thriller, and lingering artistic set piece.
        
             | yrro wrote:
             | You'll probably enjoy Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade as well.
        
         | gbuk2013 wrote:
         | This is heavily biased by my preferred genre of anime but here
         | are some my favourite more recent anime series off the top of
         | my head:
         | 
         | Full metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist:_Brother...
         | 
         | Attack on Titan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Titan
         | 
         | Mushishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushishi
         | 
         | Frieren: Beyond Journey's End
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frieren
        
           | Tor3 wrote:
           | Strangely (maybe), but Attack on Titan I can't stand, and I
           | didn't care much for any of the Full metal Alchemist ones,
           | but Frieren is one of the absolutely best shows I've ever
           | watched.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | > Attack on Titan
           | 
           | Ugh. Such an incredibly padded, dragged out story. :( :( :(
           | 
           | Maybe the first season was decent, but after the 3rd season
           | it was mostly just boring to the point where skipping
           | episodes didn't miss anything.
           | 
           | Never bothered to watch anything after about the 3rd season.
           | It became far too tedious.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Yeah, Frieren was good. It closely matches the manga version
           | of the story, though the manga goes on quite lot further
           | story wise.
           | 
           | Should be plenty more seasons of material ready for
           | adaptation there. :)
        
             | gbuk2013 wrote:
             | Still working my way through season 3 so may change my
             | mind. :) Any recommendations?
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Yeah, I wrote a whole list a few comments up (or down).
               | You can't miss it. :)
               | 
               | As a quick thought, have you seen Cyberpunk Edgerunners,
               | and Made in Abyss?
               | 
               | For stupid fun (mood dependent), then probably One-Punch
               | Man:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Punch_Man
               | 
               | It's super famous these days, so you've probably already
               | seen it. ;)
               | 
               | Personally, I also really liked "Hai to Gensou no
               | Grimgar" due to its focus on character growth rather than
               | action:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimgar_of_Fantasy_and_Ash
               | 
               | But, not everyone's a fan.
        
               | gbuk2013 wrote:
               | Cyberpunk Edgerunners was good, Made in Abyss was too but
               | I have to say it got borderline too depressing for me by
               | the end of the last season.
               | 
               | OPM I really can't stand - dropped it just after a few
               | episodes. :)
               | 
               | Hai to Gensou no Grimgar had a lot of promise with a
               | different take on the common theme, but pity it looks
               | like it will not be continued. :(
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Yeah, that's a fair point. I haven't yet watched the 3rd
               | season of Made in Abyss. Have been hesitant to do so due
               | to its reputation. ;)
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Hai to Gensou no Grimgar has both manga, and light
               | novels, that stretch on for many more chapters past the
               | anime. The Manga was good and continues on well from the
               | anime. After reaching the end of that I picked up the
               | light novels to continue on further.
               | 
               | Unfortunately (around novel 13 I think?) the author
               | clearly didn't know what to do with the story and it
               | turned silly and boring, so I moved on to other stuff. :(
        
               | gbuk2013 wrote:
               | Somehow I never got into reading manga, probably a good
               | thing too - I checked my MAL stats and I says I have
               | watched 330+ shows and I know I have been lazy and not
               | rating all of them ...
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Heh Heh Heh
               | 
               | Since you're not into Manga, this url probably won't be
               | of interest then: ;)
               | 
               | https://mangakatana.com/manga/kaiju-no-8.24869/c1
               | 
               | * If you visit it, make sure you have an ad blocker. Too
               | many ads otherwise.
               | 
               | * Japanese manga is read from right to left, the opposite
               | of western comics. Just saying. :)
        
               | blarg1 wrote:
               | I read 9 or so of the grimgar books, the story became
               | really stupid until I had to give up. The anime ended at
               | the right time.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | The plot suddenly shoots forward in the 3rd season, from
             | memory. The season where they start explaining everything.
        
           | tiniuclx wrote:
           | Frieren is a modern classic, with some of the best animation
           | I've ever seen & deals with the themes of companionship and
           | regret in a surprisingly mature way. It would be my
           | recommendation for sure!
        
             | Arisaka1 wrote:
             | Frieren is amazing. I went in without knowing anything
             | about it, and I ended up loving it enough to recommend it
             | to my parents (they also loved it).
        
           | ngc248 wrote:
           | Mushishi is so atmospheric and just amazing
           | 
           | Also for some madcap anime FLCL ... that is quintessential
           | anime for me.
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | That's definitely a "depends on your taste" thing. :)
         | 
         | [The below are mostly series rather than movies]
         | 
         | For something that's really interesting, and also family
         | friendly, Den-noh Coil is really good:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den-noh_Coil
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | A similar "feel" kind of thing (family friendly) to the above
         | is The Orbital Children:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orbital_Children
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | For stand out story, probably Made in Abyss:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Abyss
         | 
         | Due to the animation style, it looks like a kid/teen focused
         | show at first. Don't be fooled, it's _really_ not.
         | 
         | It has some incredibly complex (dark) themes. DON'T let young
         | people watch that one (emotional trauma likely!).
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | If something "a bit different" is on the cards, then Cyberpunk
         | Edgerunners is extremely good (I reckon):
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk:_Edgerunners
         | 
         | That's more of a Eastern+Western collaboration styling wise
         | rather than pure Japanese anime. It's still a really good watch
         | though. :)
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Another western style one that's really good is Scavengers
         | Reign:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scavengers_Reign
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Movies wise, probably Redline (2009) and Belle are the first to
         | mind for me:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redline_(2009_film)
         | 
         | Very unique animation style, not everyone's cup of tea. ;)
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_(2021_film)
         | 
         | Also family friendly. :)
        
           | Filligree wrote:
           | Orbital Children is a literal sequel to Dennou Coil. But I'm
           | sure you're aware of this. :)
        
             | justinclift wrote:
             | Ahhh cool. Didn't actually remember that, though I had a
             | faint feeling they were related. :)
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | It's hard to understand if you are including Boy and Heron or
         | not. If you are, then obviously there are recent master pieces.
         | 
         | But I'd say you are in for a treat: Satoshi Kon.
         | 
         | Perfect Blue, Paprika, Tokyo Godfather are all cinematic master
         | pieces!
         | 
         | I also mostly agree with the hype that surrounded "Your Name",
         | although I don't think Makoto's other works are nearly as
         | impressive.
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | Your Name (2016, Makoto Shinkai) and Ping Pong the Animation
         | (2014, Masaaki Yuasa) are both IMO top notch (and the creators
         | are active and have extensive oeuvres). The Shape of Voice
         | (2016, Kyoto Animation (RIP)) was also much acclaimed. Of
         | these, I recommend Ping Pong the most (and Yuasa's other works
         | as well).
         | 
         | I suppose for more sci-fi/fantasy, Rebuild of Evangelion
         | (2007-2021) might be interesting, although to me, its
         | popularity in Japan and why the retelling was made is actually
         | more interesting to me than the works themselves. It didn't win
         | any particular awards or acclaim, but I was a fan of the
         | incredibly stylish manga series, and I personally enjoyed the
         | Blame! (2017, Hiroyuki Shesita) CGI anime film for those into
         | the Japanese post-cyber-apocalypse sci-fi aesthetic.
         | 
         | I think these days, the economics of anime has driven more
         | interesting work into series rather than features. Recently
         | some memorable ones I've enjoyed are Steins;Gate (2011-2015,
         | White Fox), Devilman: Crybaby (2018, Studio SARU), Cyberpunk:
         | Edgerunners (2022, Trigger), Pluto (2023, M2), and Frieren
         | (2023, Madhouse).
        
         | mauvia wrote:
         | Have you tried any of Satoshi Kon's movies?
         | 
         | Tokyo Godfathers is an amazing and deeply human christmas
         | comedy about homeless people in the Tokyo streets, filled with
         | magical moments of cinematography.
         | 
         | Paprika is a less lighthearted story about inner lives, dreams
         | and ambitions set across a sci fi backdrop where people are
         | learning to enter each other's dreams and link them together.
         | It has gorgeous dreamscapes and an amazing soundtrack as well
         | as a fascinating plot and interesting characters.
         | 
         | Thre's also Makoto Shinkai's movies, which have good
         | cinematography and interesting themes and soundtrack, as well
         | as somewhat interesting characters (though a bit samey). Your
         | Name is excellent, with Weathering with You and Suzume being
         | good but not great. 5 Centimeters per second is nice as well.
         | Children who chase lost voices underground is his most Ghibli
         | movie and I'd say it definitely gets the tone and aesthetics
         | right for the Nausica/Mononoke era of Ghibli.
         | 
         | On the Ghibli side, I quite enjoyed Studio Ponoc's Modest
         | Heroes, which was a collection of shorts by Studio Ponoc (which
         | has some Ghibli Veterans in it as well as younger talent I
         | believe). Kanini and Kanino has the adventure elements and
         | aesthetics, Life ain't gonna lose has the small child PoV
         | element, Invisible has the social elements.
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | I was just about to recommend Satoshi Kon! Unfortunately, he
           | only directed four movies before he died of cancer at the age
           | of 47. What a tragic loss!
           | 
           | I also enjoyed "Your Name".
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | Your Name makes no sense at all in hindsight after the
             | first watch but it was amusing.
        
               | spacechild1 wrote:
               | I guess I need to rewatch it :-D
        
           | livueta wrote:
           | On Kon, Paranoia Agent is also excellent. And if we're taking
           | 2000s shows into account, I also have to mention Kuuchuu
           | Buranko in that category of Paranoia Agent-reminiscent
           | sociologically interesting shows.
        
           | Gigablah wrote:
           | Satoshi Kon's Millennium Actress is one of the best movies I
           | have ever seen.
        
             | nicolas_t wrote:
             | Yes, it's one of those movies that marked movie. The music
             | is also very interesting, distinctively different from most
             | anime movies.
        
           | DavidPiper wrote:
           | Seconding: Paprika was amazing (and hard to avoid comparing
           | to Inception, which came out a few years later). Millenium
           | Actress and Perfect Blue are burning a hole in my bookshelf -
           | still haven't got to them.
           | 
           | Also seconding Your Name - hits the whole emotional spectrum,
           | even on second and third watch when you know what's
           | happening.
           | 
           | As lesser-known recommendations from Ghibli, I think Porco
           | Rosso and From Up On Poppy Hill are both underrated-and-good
           | in their own way, though they don't quite leave the impact
           | that some of the others do.
        
         | windowshopping wrote:
         | "A Silent Voice" is the best anime film of the 2010s in my
         | opinion and comes closer to matching Miyazaki than anything
         | else I've seen, in terms of the power of storytelling. Miyazaki
         | is still better, but it's extremely good.
         | 
         | I also enjoyed "Wolf Children" a lot. As others have said,
         | "Your Name" is stellar too, and "5cm/sec" is pretty damn
         | excellent.
        
         | 0xDEADFED5 wrote:
         | Texhnolyze
        
         | Madmallard wrote:
         | Cowboy Bebop: The Movie
         | 
         | Your Name
         | 
         | Violet Evergarden
         | 
         | Perfect Blue
         | 
         | Paprika
         | 
         | Metropolis
         | 
         | There's a bunch of great animated movies.
         | 
         | If you're referring to series then among the best Seinen
         | classics are shows like:
         | 
         | Berzerk (1997)
         | 
         | Monster (2004) [My personal favorite]
         | 
         | Cowboy Bebop
         | 
         | Steins:Gate
         | 
         | Vinland Saga (newer)
         | 
         | Frieren (newer)
         | 
         | There's a lot of Shounen classics as well, my favorite probably
         | being
         | 
         | Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
         | 
         | granted there's several tropes in it that aren't going to be as
         | enjoyable to watch on repeat for older folks. But the
         | storytelling and plot is practically like Breaking Bad but in
         | anime form.
        
           | bostik wrote:
           | Paprika is good, but I wouldn't elevate it to greatness.
           | Whereas, for me, _Perfect Blue_ makes the cut. The odd thing
           | is, they both essentially explore aspects of the same theme:
           | subjective reality and what happens when those of different
           | individuals ' collide. But they do that in very different
           | ways...
           | 
           | And thank you for bringing up Metropolis, that film tends to
           | be underrated.
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | EVA should not be missed, regardless of how weird and gross
           | it can be for some. I watched it for the first time a year
           | ago after hearing so much about it.
           | 
           | The first five or six episodes are an awful slog, and then
           | there's an exponential curve up through 'quite good' into
           | 'great' then 'I understand why this will print money
           | forever'.
           | 
           | If you're sold but confused how to watch: start with the
           | original release and then watch End of Evangelion; both on
           | netflix.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | All these people giving recs are doing it wrong. You can
         | determine if an anime is worth your time by merely looking at
         | the title and what the source material is and the following
         | simple system:
         | 
         | Candidates start with 5 points. If they have a positive score
         | after applying the system, they're at least worth checking out
         | (although they will not necessarily be good). If not, you are
         | likely wasting your time.
         | 
         | 1) Every word in the title past the third is worth -1 point.
         | This includes particles and abbreviations.
         | 
         | 2) Each word in the subtitle is worth -0.5 points.
         | 
         | 3) Any of the following words or close synonyms are worth -2
         | points on top of any other penalties: Academy, Ability, Cheat,
         | Dungeon, Elf, Game, Goblin, Harem, Hero, Idol, Isekai, Level,
         | Loop, Maou, MMO, Mob, Online, Overlord, Party, Player, Re(used
         | as a prefix), Reincarnation, "The Animation"(verbatim only),
         | Vampire, Villainess, Virtual, VR, VTuber, Wizard
         | 
         | 4) Subtract an additional point for every word that implies
         | this is a remake, spinoff, adaptation or sequel, such as "Kai",
         | "Gaiden", "2nd" (3rd, etc.), "New", et cetera.
         | 
         | 5) Even though you already subtracted a point for "Isekai" in
         | step 3. If the title contains the word "Isekai", subtract an
         | additional 5 points.
         | 
         | 6) Apply the following adjustment based on the source material:
         | History: +3 (Applying only to direct adaptations of historical
         | events, not merely using historical theming) Literary Fiction:
         | +2 Original Work: +1 Other: +1 OVA: +0.5 Live Action: +0 Web
         | Animation/Motion Comic/Music Video: +0 Comic: +0 Video Game: -1
         | Light Novel: -1 Writeup of someone's D&D session: -1 CCG: -2
         | Web Novel: -5 Mobile Game: -10 "Multimedia Project" (This is
         | just a mobile game that doesn't exist yet): -10 Social Media
         | Post: -100
        
           | ojhughes wrote:
           | I really enjoyed "Re:ZERO - Starting Life in Another World"
           | despite it scoring -11.5 using your system (Isekai translates
           | to another world)
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | If you hadn't seen Now and Then, Here and There, or Twelve
             | Kingdoms, or read Red River, then maybe it'd seem fresh and
             | interesting, but I dropped Re:Zero pretty early. Good genre
             | fiction still has something to say about the real world,
             | and Re:Zero felt like it was trying so hard to subvert
             | genre expectations set by other fiction that it forgot
             | that.
        
               | nicolas_t wrote:
               | Ok, as someone who both loved Now and Then, Here and
               | There and Twelve Kingdoms, I want some recommendations
               | from you :) Those two series were really great.
               | 
               | But I do agree with you, they were great because they
               | actually had something to say about the real world.
        
               | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
               | There's not a lot else like them in anime, so none of the
               | shows I'm about to list are good for the same reasons
               | that those two were good.
               | 
               | Shinsekai Yori was great, and a rare case of high-effort
               | worldbuilding that actually delivers on its premise.
               | Highly spoilable.
               | 
               | If Akiba Maid Sensou is not my anime-of-the-decade for
               | this decade, I will be very surprised, but it assumes you
               | understand both yakuza culture and maid cafe culture and
               | I'm not sure what someone who doesn't would get out of
               | it.
               | 
               | Hana to Alice, Satsujin Jiken might not even be anime,
               | since it relies extremely heavily on 1:1 rotoscoping, but
               | it is short and doesn't really look like anything else.
               | 
               | Gankutsuou also gets a ton of points for being visually
               | distinctive, and (at least at the time of release, maybe
               | that's not true anymore) being the most faithful
               | adaptation of Dumas' original to video despite casting a
               | blue-skinned space vampire as the Count.
               | 
               | Princess Tutu is a fantastic use of popular ballet as a
               | framing device that was doing the whole 'meta-narrative'
               | thing long before it was cool.
               | 
               | Mononoke (not the Ghibli film Mononoke-hime) is a good-
               | looking take on the classic supernatural detective genre.
               | 
               | Id:Invaded is also a supernatural detective story, which
               | manages to be entertainingly audacious without ever
               | really feeling like it was just going for cheap shock
               | value.
        
               | glandium wrote:
               | > I'm not sure what someone who doesn't would get out of
               | it.
               | 
               | They would get the final scene of the first episode.
        
             | bullfightonmars wrote:
             | Ha. Stuff like this is entertaining but it is not what I
             | would call good. It's like the reality tv of anime. Cheap
             | wish fulfillment fan service.
             | 
             | There have been some legit good series recently that play
             | with these fantasy genres, have solid writing and
             | animation.
             | 
             | * Friern: Beyond Journey's End - an extremely sentimental
             | coming of age tale that explorers children raising parents,
             | loyalty, and platonic love.
             | 
             | * Delicious in Dungeon - a really silly story that subverts
             | the dungeon crawling genre by crossing over with the
             | food/cooking genre and playing with all kinds of
             | genre/tropes.
             | 
             | * Pluto - a classic scifi morality tale on what it means to
             | be human. This series tried really hard to be a modern
             | Ghost in the Shell. It was successful in some ways and fell
             | flat in others. Definitely worth watching though.
             | 
             | There are lots of entertaining anime out now, but so little
             | of it is well made or written. Maybe that's ok though. I
             | still watch lots of the low quality stuff because it's like
             | popcorn/candy and is easy to watch.
        
               | scns wrote:
               | > fan service
               | 
               | I really enjoyed Shokugeki No Soma, got a Crunchroll
               | account to keep watching it.
        
               | jwells89 wrote:
               | I'll echo the titles you recommended, but given what the
               | MC goes through in Re:Zero I'm not sure that it falls
               | into the bucket of wish fulfillment nearly as much as
               | most shows of its genre do. I can't think of many people
               | who'd want to be the MC.
        
           | msp26 wrote:
           | Petty much yeah. Agreed on historical anime/manga generally
           | being higher quality by default. The research required tends
           | to filter hack authors.
           | 
           | Have you read Magus of the Library?
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | I have not. I have a completely different set of criteria
             | for choosing manga because their production process is so
             | different than for anime. I have a tendency to only buy
             | physical copies, so if something never catches my eye in a
             | book shop, or never makes it into a book shop, I will
             | probably never even know it exists if it's not by an author
             | I already know.
        
           | sterlind wrote:
           | I'm amused that Hetalia: Axis Powers gets the highest
           | possible score.
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | Only the first season. (And appropriately, I didn't think
             | later seasons were as good when the novelty wore off.)
        
           | npinsker wrote:
           | Actually an amazing heuristic, double-jeopardy-ing isekais
           | gives me confidence in your taste. Would love to hear some
           | recs of yours if you have any.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | So basically you're steering us away from all the series
           | based on mangas based in turn on "light novels" based on fans
           | writing on the website Shosetsuka ni Naro, "Let's Become a
           | Novelist":
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dsetsuka_ni_Nar%C5%8D
           | 
           | Which invariably feature the reincarnation of ordinary people
           | in an RPG fantasy world, that is, the genre "isekai":
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isekai
           | 
           | Fair enough, I guess, they're silly and unabashedly cliched
           | and are not Miyazaki. But I watched a few and kind of liked
           | them: _How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom, I 'm in Love
           | with the Villainess, My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes
           | Lead to Doom!, Parallel World Pharmacy._ (That's four
           | different titles, to be clear.)
           | 
           | I could comfortably watch another right now, I'm tempted by
           | _Reborn as a Vending Machine, I Now Wander the Dungeon._ But
           | I would not like to watch GITS, which exists in my mind as a
           | vague painful memory of a self-important plot about cyborgs
           | and a lot of characters jumping around on rooftops and
           | shooting at each other. It 's a "neo-noir cyberpunk action
           | thriller", as Wikipedia puts it, or in my terms "not any
           | fun". But I guess it was seminal and genuinely important at
           | the time.
        
             | internet101010 wrote:
             | The vending machine show is actually decent once you get to
             | like episode 3.
        
           | cess11 wrote:
           | OK, so what would Chainsaw Man get?
        
           | bmacho wrote:
           | That's a long elaboration of an old joke.
           | 
           | More seriously, no, you can't "determine if an anime is worth
           | your time by merely looking at the title and what the source
           | material is". Especially if you don't have anything to watch,
           | and all the false positives (plenty!) have infinite negative
           | value.
        
           | edgarvaldes wrote:
           | I'm not into anime, but I would like to see some recent
           | series. But! I want an anime with adult MC, no power levels,
           | no schools, not about magic, no mechas, no overtly sexual
           | (inuendos, jokes). No exaggerated facial gestures. Something
           | like the overall tone of Legend of the Galactic Heroes but
           | more recent.
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | From the other angle, what's the absolute crappiest anime
         | you've seen and would steer everyone away from?
         | 
         | The stand out crappiest anime I'm aware of is the "Blade
         | Runner: Black Lotus" series:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner:_Black_Lotus
         | 
         | Truly terrible in every aspect. Story, animation, dialog, etc.
         | Outstandingly bad. :(
        
         | ogurechny wrote:
         | > What am I missing?
         | 
         | Everything that is not in "Studio Ghibli" wide angle fairy tale
         | style? A number of external films have imitated it, some of
         | them better than the other.
         | 
         | As a side note, "Studio Ghibli" is also not at all equal to
         | "Hayao Miyazaki".
         | 
         | Say, "Madoka Magica" is certainly large scale, but in totally
         | different style. "Denno Coil" and "Eizouken" has that sense of
         | adventure you can't really describe. And "Drifting Home" is
         | magical, nostalgic, and colourful in its own manner.
         | 
         | I you need some "respected opinion", here's a list:
         | 
         | https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/lists/50-key-anime-fi...
         | 
         | It's... okay. Everyone -- for a certain definition of attentive
         | viewers -- knows most of those.
         | 
         | It is not wise to limit yourself to movies. As mentioned,
         | animated movie is a big investment that can flop at once, while
         | series can be steered somehow in a different
         | production/financing direction, or can become a good
         | merchandise source. Therefore, a lot of movies are more or less
         | straightforward derivatives of existing hit works which rely on
         | the fan crowd. Those make money for more experimental original
         | works.
        
         | bpiche wrote:
         | Browse some ranked lists (series and OVAs) over at
         | MyAnimeList.net. Tons of good stuff out there. Though, things
         | were better in the old days. No arguing that.
        
         | livueta wrote:
         | If we're specifically talking stuff from the last few years,
         | and if shows count, I gotta put in a word for ODDTAXI. Feels
         | like a mashup of the best parts of Yuasa Masaaki and Kon
         | Satoshi works.
        
         | blarg1 wrote:
         | The Sky Crawlers,
        
         | hwbunny wrote:
         | Watch Redline, Demon City Shinjuku, Ergo Proxy, Psycho Pass,
         | GITS series (not the netflix animated crap), Berserk, Ninja
         | Scroll, Jormungandr, Black Lagoon.
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | I watched Redline recently. The animation is worth seeing but
           | the "story" is paper-thin.
           | 
           | Ergo Proxy I just didn't get.
           | 
           | Psycho Pass I really enjoyed; good depth of story and
           | exploration of the pros and cons.
           | 
           | GitS series is probably my favourite anime, and very high up
           | in my favourite anything.
           | 
           | Berserk is good, and descends into Evangelion-level insanity
           | as it progresses.
           | 
           | Ninja Scroll is forever a classic. Worth a re-watch every
           | 5-10 years. I'm due.
        
             | hwbunny wrote:
             | Redline animation is WORTH SEEING? :DDDD Man, that's the
             | absolute top ever created.
             | 
             | People really are ungrateful and deserve the borderline
             | idiotic Attack of the Titans rather than these classics.
        
         | autarch wrote:
         | I highly recommend "Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken!" It's an
         | anime that's a love letter to anime about making anime where
         | the anime-making becomes part of the anime. It's quite a trip,
         | and it's got great energy and love for the medium.
        
         | boppo1 wrote:
         | Patlabor 2
        
         | FL33TW00D wrote:
         | Shinsekai yori
        
         | tauwauwau wrote:
         | Here's a list of some old and new ones, that an old fart might
         | enjoy
         | 
         | Monster (Chasing a serial killer)
         | 
         | Ergo Proxy (Can't describe it)
         | 
         | Samurai 7 (Sci-fi variant off 7 samurai)
         | 
         | Last Exile (Post appocapltic world with lots of flying
         | machines)
         | 
         | Kino's Journey
         | 
         | Mushishi
         | 
         | Time of Eve
         | 
         | Gargantia
         | 
         | Baccano
         | 
         | Durarara
         | 
         | Psycho Pass
         | 
         | Arslan Senki
         | 
         | Sunaboju (Desert Punk)
         | 
         | Witch Hunter Robin
         | 
         | Hunter x Hunter (old not new)
         | 
         | Texnolyze
         | 
         | Darker than Black
         | 
         | Black Lagoon
         | 
         | Great Teach Onizuka (One of the old and best)
         | 
         | Gintama (Comedy, It's at the level One Piece and Naruto
         | disgusing as Comedy, you have to get past 30 episodes)
         | 
         | Kabaneri of Iron Fortress (Just for animation quality)
         | 
         | Beck (Music career)
         | 
         | Golden Kamui
         | 
         | Terror in Resonance
         | 
         | Ping Pong Animation (Don't let the animation fool you, it's one
         | of the best stories)
         | 
         | Area 88 (Story ends abruptly, watch at your own risk)
         | 
         | Ashita no Joe (Old anime, boxing genre)
         | 
         | Valkyria Chronicles (War story)
         | 
         | Scissor Seven (Comedy, Chinese, assassin, in a strange world)
         | 
         | Shura no Toki (Martial arts, 3 generations)
         | 
         | A Record of Mortal's Journey to Immortality (Chinese
         | cultivation genre, 3D good animation, faithful adaptation of
         | one of the good novels in this genre)
         | 
         | Swallowed Star (Chinese cultivation genre Sci-fi variant, great
         | 3D animation)
        
           | nurettin wrote:
           | Is there any reason FOTN isn't in there?
        
           | latentsea wrote:
           | Started watching GTO and so far 3 episodes in it's about him
           | lusting after 16 year olds?
        
         | metalspoon wrote:
         | Patema Inverted is in the league there, graphics wise. It's
         | crazy how nobody had ever tried the idea of the character pov
         | of falling towards the sky. The immersive feeling is real and
         | genius.
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | I strongly recommend _Wolf Children_. It 's on par with
         | Miyazaki's best. A really moving and heartwarming film.
         | 
         | On the flipside of the spectrum, _Grave of the Fireflies_ and
         | _In This Corner of the World_ are excellent but tragic WW2
         | films told from the Japanese civilian perspective. _Grave of
         | the Fireflies_ in particular is a difficult watch, but worth
         | seeing once.
        
       | djaouen wrote:
       | Ahh, anime's heyday. I remember borrowing Samurai Champloo on VHS
       | from my friend around that time when I was in high school... good
       | times!
        
         | duggan wrote:
         | Champloo came out in 2004, wasn't VHS a distant memory by then,
         | or was I just "living in the future"? :)
         | 
         | Sure you're not thinking of Cowboy Bebop?
        
           | djaouen wrote:
           | It might have been. Even then, I remember thinking that it
           | was odd that it came on VHS. Thanks for the trip down memory
           | lane!
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | Could well have been a "fansub" circulating on copied VHS.
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | [not the OP]
           | 
           | I find it quite amusing what many people (including myself
           | sometimes) have a pretty blurry memory about when we moved
           | from VHS.
           | 
           | But I think it mostly contributes on what for some people VHS
           | were a dominant media for quite a while, because they didn't
           | had the means to see the digital media.
           | 
           | It's easier to understand what the first [commercially]
           | successful DVD player was PlayStation 2, which became
           | available ~2001. Before that DVDs were quite a costly[0]
           | endeavour.
           | 
           | But at the same time people with the access to a computer
           | (and a local 'everything for $15' totally-legit-shop) had the
           | benefits of DivX ;) releases on a plain CD-ROMs, which every
           | home computer had.
           | 
           | Some anecdata: I first seen Blade (1998) on VHS, but The
           | Matrix (1999) on DivX rip, yet (I think) Spirited Away (2001)
           | on VHS. I frequented a local VHS rental (because a friend
           | worked there and so it places it up to 2002? 2001?) so I had
           | seen a lot of films on VHS, but again, by 2002 it was a meme
           | how people searching for _XXX_ on DC++ got XXX (2002)
           | instead.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/your-1
           | st-...
        
             | duggan wrote:
             | This is fascinating, and yeah, since I was a teenager
             | around then, VHS probably just became ancient history as
             | soon as I could play DVDs.
        
           | runamuck wrote:
           | Disney released "Cars" on VHS in 2006. (The last big studio
           | VHS release)
        
         | christiaanb wrote:
         | Perhaps the only anime where the voice actor for one of the
         | Dutch characters actually speaks proper Dutch (as opposed to
         | e.g. German or very broken Dutch). Although they picked a weird
         | translation for the concept of boss/chief/ranking officer, and
         | they chose "opperhoofd"; which as a Dutch person is something
         | you associate as a person that is the head of a tribe, not
         | ranking officer.
        
           | Murskautuminen wrote:
           | Actually, the term opperhoofd was used by chief ranking
           | officers of the Dutch trading companies in Japan.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOC_opperhoofden_in_Japan
        
             | christiaanb wrote:
             | Ah, did that know that! That makes the voice acting and
             | script even better then.
        
       | bostik wrote:
       | I hadn't realised _Jin-Roh_ was from the same creator. And I can
       | see why it wasn 't a success: _Jin-Roh_ is dark, properly
       | dystopian, confusing, and unforgiving. But underneath there is a
       | retold story of the little red riding-hood, in the original Grimm
       | fashion.
       | 
       | The wolf wins.
        
         | GauntletWizard wrote:
         | Jin-Roh is but part of Oshii's other magnum opus, The Kerberos
         | Saga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerberos_Saga . I haven't
         | read the second half, which wasn't available in english when I
         | first saw Jin Roh, but I've heard that The Red Spectacles and
         | StrayDog are great if you liked it, but hard to find. I should
         | retry that search one of these days.
        
         | mmaniac wrote:
         | I found Jin-Roh's use of the Red Riding-Hood narrative to be
         | much more subversive than a mere retelling. Both lead
         | characters alternately play the role of red riding-hood and the
         | wolf, luring each other in and betraying each others' trust at
         | differing stages in the story. At the same time, neither truly
         | wants to harm the other, but it's the human society they exist
         | in which compels them to.
         | 
         | The last shot of the movie is the Rotkaeppchen storybook lying
         | in tatters in a puddle.
        
         | slillibri wrote:
         | FYI, Masamune Shirow is the creator of Ghost in the Shell.
         | Mamoru Oshii directed the anime adaptation.
        
       | imp0cat wrote:
       | Oh it's nice to see Animation Obsessive here. Their blog
       | https://animationobsessive.substack.com/ is worthy of a
       | subscription - most of their articles are both informative and
       | very well written.
        
       | chambers wrote:
       | I rewatched Ghost in the Shell recently and I was struck by how
       | poorly it aged. Its animation holds up but its story felt weaker
       | than I remembered. Like the director reached for something deep,
       | couldn't get ahold of it, and then covered his tracks behind
       | wordy philosophy.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | >director reached for something deep, couldn't get ahold of it
         | 
         | Translation/writing/dub wasn't very strong at the time, I can
         | see how ppl feel now (and felt at the time) the
         | headiness/philosophizng was filler for robot tanks and augment
         | porn, but it was all there in the source manga by Shirow. IMO
         | reaching for something deep about is what the series is all
         | about, just explored more competently in shows like SAC where
         | they had many hours to deep dwelve into many subjects.
        
           | jajko wrote:
           | To watch some classic in anything but original language is
           | proper insult to the source and always subpar experience.
           | Would you watch say Bicycle thieves with some yeager-speak
           | variant too?
           | 
           | I know 0 japanese but never ever watched any of their produce
           | in anything but japanese with eng subs. Even though EN is not
           | my primary language but one I grok easily without subs
           | needed.
           | 
           | Sure, people are lazy and have tons of excuses, but they are
           | just that. If you(anybody) couldnt otherwise as a kid, do
           | yourself a favor and re-experience it again in better form.
        
             | thfuran wrote:
             | But the English subs are the translation. You're going to
             | need to learn Japanese to experience it in the original
             | language.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | The original manga delivers it better because...
         | 
         | ... Shirow filled in gaps between panels with tons and tons of
         | notes, discussing details, sometimes pointing to source
         | material, etc.
         | 
         | One of the worst things about it is that none of the GitS 1.0,
         | 1.5 and 2.0 come with bibliography section - they _need_ it.
        
         | ranger207 wrote:
         | Ghost in the Shell was one of the first animes I saw, but while
         | I quickly switched from dubs to subs, I only rewatched GitS
         | subbed fairly recently. The subtitles are far better than the
         | dubbed audio, and I'd encourage anyone who has only seen it
         | dubbed to attempt watching it subbed instead
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | Just like DNS
           | 
           | Always subs!
        
         | mejutoco wrote:
         | What do you think about the matrix (the movie)?
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | I don't understand this at all. It's a story about model
         | merging. The stuff in that movie is more pertinent than ever!
        
           | marci wrote:
           | The story of how MajorMeat/Phantom-Dense-XXb-fp64 and a
           | 2501Silicon/MoE-XXb-64bit finetuned with the Whole-Internet
           | Dataset frankenmerged.
        
         | FranOntanaya wrote:
         | I never felt it was any different. The 95 movie was always the
         | more mystical take, for story the SAC series was better,
         | specially 2nd GIG.
        
           | jwells89 wrote:
           | SAC/Second GIG were a rare case of the entire production
           | firing on all cylinders. Even its English dub was leagues
           | better than the average (and IME, somewhat necessary for
           | those who can't understand Japanese; even as a subtitle
           | watcher of 20+ years I sometimes have trouble following subs
           | in SAC because the dialogue is so dense and technical). Shows
           | like that don't show up often.
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | How old were you when you first saw it?
         | 
         | I know when I go back to movies that "blew my mind" when I was
         | a teenager or in my early 20s, now 30 years later, they're
         | rarely as incredible as I remember them being..
         | 
         | I'm older, wiser and with more life experience, and it's
         | therefore much harder to "blow my mind" as they say..
        
           | dimator wrote:
           | For this reason, I prefer not to rewatch movies that really
           | touched me when I was younger. I would rather they hold that
           | place in my heart unchallenged. I'm sort of defending my
           | younger, wide-eyed self.
        
       | Shinchy wrote:
       | I'm not sure what others are saying, I re-watched Ghost in the
       | Shell again recently and I had forgotten just how brilliant it
       | is. There is something pure about it that you just don't find in
       | modern anime, something that really resonated.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | That something is acetate.
        
           | xorbax wrote:
           | This is why I think Akira can't be surpassed. Not just
           | because it was done on acetate, but because of the level of
           | skill and consideration required to animate that way. You
           | can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try
           | something else.
           | 
           | As much as technology has democratized the field, I think it
           | also lowers the heights. I desperately hope I'm wrong and
           | just old, but I haven't met someone who puts up something
           | that they think is better. Maybe it's just because we're in
           | the transitory phase - but digital animation has been around
           | for decades at this point. Maybe it's Ikea versus
           | handcrafting, and the shift is in the expected quality rather
           | than the art elevating itself to meet priors.
        
             | doublepg23 wrote:
             | I think the democratization means the heights won't be big-
             | budget corporate things, they'll be on YouTube or Patreon.
        
               | cedilla wrote:
               | Akira was a big budget corporate thing though. It's
               | technical excellence came from having the budget to
               | employ multiple highly skilled animation leads and
               | hundreds of animators drawing hundreds of thousands of
               | cells.
        
               | fidotron wrote:
               | Conspicuously though Akira is a product of the manga
               | industry and not the anime one. This is why it deviates
               | from the norms in so many respects.
        
             | cedilla wrote:
             | Akira is a cult classic and a pivotal point in anime - much
             | more in the US than in Japan. If you don't know of a film
             | surpassing it in skill and consideration in the thirty
             | years since it was made it probably says more about your
             | exposure to anime. Maybe it's just that Cyberpunk is less
             | popular now and the big genres are of less interest to you.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | The big genres of modern anime seem to predominantly be
               | pandering to base weebs. Waifu shit meant to sell body
               | pillows. Where is all the serious animation like Magnetic
               | Rose at?
        
               | breckenedge wrote:
               | Eras that produce masterpieces are unsustainable.
        
             | lupusreal wrote:
             | I think animation done in computers _can_ be excellent, but
             | is disadvantaged because computers make it easier to do
             | thinks quick and cheap and the economics of animation
             | incentivises taking that direction.
             | 
             | Redline is a rare example where I think it's done well.
        
               | bch wrote:
               | > Redline is a rare example
               | 
               | Tekkonkinkreet
        
             | warcher wrote:
             | Watch into the spider verse sometime if you want to see
             | what modern tech can be when it's fully unleashed, versus
             | kept under budget.
        
             | giuseppe_petri wrote:
             | > You can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and
             | try something else.
             | 
             | That's why you animate with pencil on paper first.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | Every part of GiS has been, per article "endlessly ripped off,
         | referenced and remixed". Whatever one liked about original GiS,
         | there's a derivation out there that turns dial to 11 and makes
         | the original feel basic in retrospect. But that's testimony to
         | GiS greatness.
        
           | satvikpendem wrote:
           | There is a common trope about this very effect: https://tvtro
           | pes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowC...
        
           | hwbunny wrote:
           | Any examples that make GiS inferior to a copycat?
        
           | jonathanlydall wrote:
           | I watched The Shining for the first time in around 2012 and
           | when commenting to an older friend about it I said something
           | to the effect of "It's good, but I didn't feel it was
           | exceptional." to which he replied saying that "Yes, but
           | consider that it was the first real film of that genre, it
           | only seems "okay" today because you're comparing to all the
           | films of the same genre which came after and were largely
           | influenced by it."
           | 
           | I don't know enough about films to know that if he said was
           | accurate, but it's stuck with me.
           | 
           | I was about 16 when The Matrix came out and I find it
           | interesting asking people who were born after it came out
           | what they think about it, if they've seen it their reaction
           | is typically (much like me with The Shining) "seemed
           | alright", while for me at the time the movie was phenomenal
           | and in terms of many of its special effects, unlike anything
           | I had ever seen before.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | There are a number of films: The Matrix, the original Star
             | Wars, Jurassic Park, Avatar, I'm sure many others that were
             | just so different and jaw-dropping in many ways when they
             | first came out--in those cases because of effects of
             | various types mostly--that it can be hard to appreciate
             | their novelty at the time.
             | 
             | Some stand up better than others.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Citizen Kane, Casablanca
               | 
               | Appreciating "modern" before modern times requires taking
               | the production date into context _and_ being aware of
               | what contemporary media was doing.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, the entire reason you're watching famous
               | media decades later is because contemporary media is
               | comparatively boring.
               | 
               | F.ex. How many people who have seen Citizen Kane have
               | seen Louisiana Purchase?
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_in_film
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Those are two of my favorite films. But Citizen Kane was
               | largely unique as opposed to a precursor of a type. And
               | Casablanca just put everything together in a package that
               | really wasn't that distinct from plenty of other love
               | stories set against a WWII backdrop on the surface.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | To me, both Citizen Kane and Casablanca feel pretty
               | revolutionary in editing, compared to what was prevalent
               | at the time. But this has intrigued me to do some '41/42
               | comparisons.
        
               | troupo wrote:
               | In comparison to many of the lazy movies of today I find
               | The Matrix still as jaw-dropping. Even the two sequels
               | tried to push the envelope.
               | 
               | But the original one was just so brilliantly made
        
               | rvba wrote:
               | The matrix to some degree is inspired by Ghost in the
               | shell .
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | The "Lord of the Rings" novel is that way too to anyone not
           | steeped in fantasy. It might be hard to imagine for many
           | people these days that "elves" and "dwarves" strictly meant
           | children's fairytales before Tolkien. Magical rings, wizards,
           | dragons with tunnels of gold ... seems so cliche now it is
           | easy to see why someone would wonder what the big deal about
           | Tolkien is.
        
             | inhumantsar wrote:
             | same deal with neuromancer
        
               | paul80808 wrote:
               | I have to disagree with both. I help a colleague teach a
               | class in which students often read necromancer, and it
               | often has a deep impact on them. The cloned ninjas and
               | laser weapons are uninteresting to them for the reasons
               | mentioned above, but the Necromancer + Wintermute dynamic
               | and central plot is fascinating to them.
        
               | cgriswald wrote:
               | I think it's slightly different. Tolkein made fairy tales
               | grow up, but people already had some familiarity with
               | these things. Tolkien gave them a new way to think about
               | those things.
               | 
               | Gibson's strength was that he could describe--in an
               | accessible way--concepts that were quite foreign to most
               | people at the time.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | Elves and dwarves didn't strictly mean children's fairy
             | tales prior to Tolkien. There's plenty of semi-popular
             | prior art where they feature, like the _Worm Ouroboros_ or
             | _The King of Elfland 's Daughter_. Poul Anderson also
             | published _The Broken Sword_ the same year as LOTR, which
             | shows a lot of the same influences as written by a very
             | different author.
             | 
             | Tolkien's importance is that the specific kinds of
             | creatures he wrote became the default for virtually all
             | subsequent authors and the popularity/quality of the works
             | were pivotal in establishing fantasy as a "proper" genre.
        
               | thefaux wrote:
               | Plus Wagner's ring cycle.
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | Not the original GIS, but GIS: Standalone Complex is still
           | one of the best examples out there of "realistic" special
           | forces action scenes. A lot of screen time spent getting all
           | the pieces into position, culminating in just a couple
           | seconds of fast-paced action.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex is much better. Movies
         | don't have enough time to tell the story when there's a lot of
         | political intrigue.
        
       | rekabis wrote:
       | The author fails in their understanding of Anime's history in
       | North America.
       | 
       | While certain series such as The White Lion, Astroboy, Space
       | Battleship Yamato (marketed over here as Starblazors) and Captain
       | Harlock did see airtime first, it was Robotech - the Harmony Gold
       | Frankenstein of three completely unrelated Anime series - that
       | kicked off the process in 1984. It was Robotech that threw rocket
       | fuel onto the burning embers of fandom in North America. Akira
       | just helped the process along.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | There was very little "anime" in North America. If you prefer
         | your animation with an acute accent, you're better off looking
         | in France.
        
         | kagakuninja wrote:
         | As a member of the underground anime scene, starting in the
         | late 70s, I have a different perspective.
         | 
         | Harmony Gold did nothing to actually promote anime, beyond
         | hyping their own products. Robotech was the English translated
         | anime that happened to be on air in the US when the necessary
         | conditions for the anime explosion were in place.
         | 
         | Those conditions were:
         | 
         | Affordable VCRs (in the 70s, they cost as much as a small car).
         | 
         | The Usenet / internet (for coordinating, sharing information,
         | and creating tape sharing networks).
         | 
         | Low cost computer video platforms for subtitling (e.g. Amiga +
         | Video Toaster).
         | 
         | In terms of popularity, people forget that Speed Racer, Kimba,
         | etc were broadcast on network television, and had far more
         | impact on popular culture than Robotech, which was syndicated.
         | 
         | Captain Harlock ironically what got me interested in anime in
         | the late '70s. It was not widely broadcast in the continental
         | US, until Harmony Gold's despicable hack job which came after
         | Robotech.
         | 
         | One source of subtitled anime in the 70s was from Hawaii, which
         | has a significant Japanese population. But to get that required
         | having contacts with one of those very expensive VCRs.
        
           | lowbloodsugar wrote:
           | What they did with "Battle of the Planets" o_0
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | I too was surprised that Robotech didn't appear in the article.
         | 
         | It played during my school summer vacation (U.S.), and I was
         | rivetted. It's nearly [0] the first Japanese animation I ever
         | saw, and I was absolutely rivetted.
         | 
         | I have no idea what viewership numbers were like at the period,
         | but _I_ was certainly hooked. And I was entering my high-school
         | years where I 'd have spending money from part-time jobs, so I
         | was definitely an untapped market.
         | 
         | [0] Another commenter mentioned Battle of the Planets, which
         | I'd forgotten about. I liked that too.
        
       | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
       | Just a notice that all Blu-Rays of the 95 GITS are completely and
       | hopelessly mangled (cropped, blurred and black crushed). The only
       | "good" version is an old HDTV rip that was hand-remastered by
       | Judgment; but with heavy smoothing in the process, a film grain
       | shader to mask this is recommended.
       | 
       | BD:
       | http://comp.judging.it/content/Koukaku%20Kidoutai/1080p-3/BD...
       | 
       | HDTV:
       | http://comp.judging.it/content/Koukaku%20Kidoutai/1080p-3/Ju...
        
         | SuperNinKenDo wrote:
         | That's beyond heartbreaking. Everything is somehow getting
         | worse but I'd held out hope that something universally
         | considered a masterpiece might get better treatment. Do you
         | know if a better release exists in Japan?
        
           | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
           | My wooden peg leg and the parrot on my experienced and still
           | active privateer shoulder tell me no.
        
             | cjk2 wrote:
             | That is the way. Arrr.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Anime piracy and subtitles, even with globalization, is
               | on a different level. Especially with the detail and
               | effort that goes into some fansubs.
        
               | cjk2 wrote:
               | Yeah exactly that. I had a crunchy roll subscription but
               | shitcanned it in the end because the quality of the
               | releases is an order of magnitude better from the
               | pirates.
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | Eh, we lost the original moon tapes and George Lucas
           | suppressed the theatrical _Star Wars_ cut. Very common even
           | in the modern era for this sort of thing to happen.
        
             | nicolas_t wrote:
             | At least for the theatrical Star Wars cut there's an
             | excellent fan restoration 4k77 based on a 35mm IB
             | technicolor film scan. The amount of work fans do to
             | restore work they care about more than the corporate owners
             | is always both amazing and heartwarming.
        
           | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
           | If you want another known bad case:
           | https://sephirotic.wordpress.com/2015/10/11/neon-genesis-
           | eva...
        
         | philip-b wrote:
         | Where do I get this HDTV rip?
        
           | ykonstant wrote:
           | nyaa, most easily
        
         | hapticmonkey wrote:
         | The 4K Bluray copy I have seems to be an improvement over both?
         | 
         | Note: This is the HDR screenshot so colours look wrong unless
         | tonemapped to a SDR display.
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/PFVzuYi.jpeg
        
           | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
           | Still some cropping and way too much DNR, but not as bad as
           | the 1080p BDs indeed. Some people recommend it over the HDTV
           | source (which was a bitstarved WMV3 encode) for its better
           | handling of action sequences (i.e. without horrible
           | macroblocking).
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | GITS is highly relevant today, but I can understand why the
       | Hollywood remake gutted the original story, because GITS is a
       | highly subversive work that directly attacks the authoritarian
       | state's bureaucratic power structure. It's also the story of the
       | transformation of a loyal servant of one of the state agencies,
       | Major Kusangi, into an independent rogue agent who abandons that
       | power structure in alliance with some form of synthetic
       | intelligence, Project 2501.
       | 
       | What sets it apart from similar rogue spy stories is the heavy
       | emphasis on philosophical concepts - the Ship of Theseus in the
       | context of a cyborg human whose every part has been replaced over
       | time, the nature of self and other in the context of the merger
       | of the Major's identity with that of P2501, the point at which
       | obedience to the authoritarian state is abandoned and the
       | rationale for that choice - all notions that make established
       | power structures uneasy, and which accounts for the atrocious
       | garbled plot line of the Hollywood remake.
        
         | rvba wrote:
         | They botched the remake since it was done by incompetent
         | people. That was (still is?) the time where Netflix was trying
         | to build a library so they threw random people at random
         | projects.
         | 
         | Death Note Remake / live action film was botched too
        
       | bellboy_tech wrote:
       | GITS is amazing as a design universe. The more you dig into the
       | manga or movies (even the SACs) the deeper you get sucked in to
       | what could be. From the vision of mind interfaces to the dream of
       | mind across the net. It was WAY ahead of it's time and still
       | stands up today.
       | 
       | Every crevasse of the original Manga contains deep thought out
       | design on what digital life could become. What constructs we
       | become once we crossed that digital/biological line.
       | 
       | Love it. Happy to buy into the sell.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | If you want a deeper look into the worlds of Anime at the time,
         | I recommend: Anime Architecture : Imagined Worlds and Endless
         | Megacities, Hardcover
         | https://www.thamesandhudsonusa.com/books/anime-architecture-...
         | 
         | Its a really cool book
        
         | jrajav wrote:
         | The SAC series were also intensely thoughtful and well-written,
         | with softly stated political intrigue and philosophical musing
         | that somehow doesn't ever devolve into navel gazing.
         | 
         | Really a must watch anime series if you like anime or even just
         | sci fi at all.
        
       | hdt91 wrote:
       | I'm seeing quite a few recommendations for good shows in the
       | comments, under an article about GITS and Mamoru Oshii, but
       | surprisingly no one has brought up the two other fairly well-
       | known (?) works: Angel's Egg and Urusei Yatsura 2. The first one
       | just got the news about a 4k upgrade next year and first time
       | Western release, while the other has few reasons to be a stand-
       | alone movie of the same manga besides the main cast. Both are
       | sometimes incredibly trippy and heady with the hypnotic 90s look,
       | which seem to be much fewer in the modern anime but I haven't
       | really kept up with new stuff these days as well as animation
       | styles certainly evolve over time.
        
         | mmaniac wrote:
         | I'm a fan of most of Oshii's work, and Angel's Egg is a
         | particular favourite, but it's not hard to see why it's rarely
         | recommended. The film has very little narrative and it leans
         | heavily on visual symbolism.
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | The best way to sell Angel's Egg to the people predisposed to
           | seeking out anime is to mention its influence on Dark Souls
           | 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9wSol7JdG0
        
             | mmaniac wrote:
             | This comment had the reverse effect on me - Dark Souls 3
             | has been on my backlog for a while, and I'm now more keen
             | to play it :)
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | Mentioning that Yoshitaka Amano worked on it might also be
             | a draw for some people.
        
       | segmondy wrote:
       | I have literally watched this movie 10x easily, and it's my
       | "Continue Watching" menu in Netflix right now. Such a brilliant
       | movie.
        
         | a_t48 wrote:
         | Same. For a while it was my comfort pick for a movie to have on
         | while going to bed.
        
       | AI_beffr wrote:
       | anime is a completely pointless topic in my opinion. i honestly
       | feel like it has no future because of AI. even if there is
       | something that resembles anime in the future, it will all be
       | drawn and probably written by AI. what is the point of that? and
       | looking back, the only thing that made anime so good was that it
       | was niche. GITS for example, while touching on interesting
       | concepts and being beautifully drawn, doesnt have a very good
       | story. it was niche enough, small enough and nimble enough to
       | touch on cool, ahead-of-their-time concepts that hadnt yet broken
       | through to mainstream. but beyond that, it doesnt really do much.
       | most anime that ive seen is extremely violent, has meandering
       | dis-jointed writing, etc. not of much value to anyone above the
       | age of 16.
       | 
       | watching GITS now is even more disappointing because all of the
       | transhumanist, cyberpunk themes that are touched upon arent cool
       | anymore. they are reality now. AI is here and its a real thing
       | that we have to deal with. soon we really will have to deal with
       | the concepts seen in GITS. and its just tired and disappointing
       | because it wont be like a cool anime, it will be horrible and
       | dangerous and disgusting. society will be shattered..
        
         | sram1337 wrote:
         | I don't think most people value the aspects of anime that you
         | are highlighting as highly as you do
        
         | cynicalsecurity wrote:
         | Reality sucks, got it.
        
       | tecleandor wrote:
       | Feels weird not finding the name of Masamune Shirow even once in
       | the article (or the comments here, at least the last time I
       | checked)
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | Why?
        
           | lowbloodsugar wrote:
           | Just Google him.
        
           | edu wrote:
           | He's the author of the original manga. Which is as good as
           | the anime, if you haven't read it I strongly recommend it!
        
         | glandium wrote:
         | He's mentioned in the comments there.
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | Saw it at the theater. What a time to be alive! And then three
       | years later we get The Matrix!
        
         | gpderetta wrote:
         | Rumour is that the sale pitch[1] for The Matrix was the
         | Wachowskis showing GITS to the producers and saying "We wanna
         | do that for real."
         | 
         | (and wow, it was only three year later).
         | 
         | [1] https://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/oct/19/hollywood-
         | ghost...
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I really like both the animated series and the movie with
       | Scarlett Johansson.
       | 
       | I am well into my 70s, and GITS appeals to my memories of
       | Barberella and Flash Gordon comics.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | > That story started in the early '90s, in London. A local
       | businessman saw Akira at an art film screening.
       | 
       | Exhibit A on why I looooove movie screenings
       | 
       | Imaging seeing a bunch of quirky short film misses from amateur
       | producers that at least take initiative, to seeing _Akira_. in
       | the early 90s. an advanced style in a medium nobody had really
       | explored with a cohesive well thought out message. And you're
       | like "and this story and director came out of where? Japan?"
       | 
       | today that would share similarities to the idea of something
       | wholly unexpected in the entertainment world came out of Iraq,
       | but without any fanfare just an exhibit at a small industry event
       | in your town
        
         | jonhohle wrote:
         | > an advanced style in a medium nobody had really explored with
         | a cohesive well thought out message.
         | 
         | Only of you ignore Miyazaki. Nausicaa and to a lesser extent
         | Castle in the Sky aren't cyberpunk, but definitely pushed the
         | state of the art and storytelling forward with universally
         | applicable narratives. I'm not saying Akira isn't good or that
         | the viewing wasn't serendipitous, but it certainly wasn't alone
         | in what was happening in Japan at the time.
        
       | riffraff wrote:
       | > America and Europe saw their first major "anime boom" during
       | the '90s.
       | 
       | I'm not sure that's true, we had a ton of anime in Europe in the
       | 80s already.
       | 
       | Capitan Tsubasa aired in 86 in Italy and 88 in France, and I'm
       | pretty sure we had a lot of Go Nagai stuff before that.
        
         | Enydosnes wrote:
         | As far as I'm aware, France was a relative outlier in Europe in
         | regards to popularity of Japanese media with it preceding more
         | widespread adoption in popular European culture.
        
         | gpderetta wrote:
         | Indeed, Mazinger was an household name in Italy even earlier
         | than that.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-05-11 23:01 UTC)