[HN Gopher] Swipos-GIS/GEO, nationwide GNSS RTK correction for c...
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       Swipos-GIS/GEO, nationwide GNSS RTK correction for centimeter
       accurate location
        
       Author : RedlineTriad
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-05-10 13:02 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.swisstopo.admin.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.swisstopo.admin.ch)
        
       | RedlineTriad wrote:
       | I just learned that Switzerland has a nationwide RTK network for
       | cm level positional accuracy using GPS, Galileo, GALILEO, and/or
       | Beidou, GNSS systems. And they have a nice map of all the station
       | locations[0].
       | 
       | It's a bit of shame that the pricing seems to be rather steep for
       | frivolous use, but it seems to be rather new.
       | 
       | It would be interesting to see what possibilities a totally free
       | nationwide RTK system would open up.
       | 
       | Swisstopo is a government organization that already provides many
       | services like highly accurate maps for free.
       | 
       | [0] https://shop.swipos.ch/Map/SensorMap.aspx
        
         | friendly_capy wrote:
         | In Portugal there are 2 already, one free and one paid. The
         | free one was implemented almost 20 years ago.
         | 
         | It amazes me that a country like Switzlerland only now
         | implemented such a service, and quite expensive, nonetheless.
        
           | Leherenn wrote:
           | It's been running since 2016 at least in Switzerland, I was
           | using it back then. And well, nothing is cheap in
           | Switzerland. :)
        
         | ftth_finland wrote:
         | Finland has a free nationwide RTK network. It's nominally only
         | for testing and R&D use, tho, and you have to renew your
         | account every three months.
         | 
         | https://www.maanmittauslaitos.fi/en/finpos/rtk
         | 
         | However, you can easily setup your own RTK base station for a
         | few hundred bucks. Very convenient to use the free service to
         | determine the static coordinates of your base station.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | _> It 's a bit of shame that the pricing seems to be rather
         | steep for frivolous use_
         | 
         | The pricing norms for RTK correction networks were set 20 years
         | ago, when operating your own base station meant buying a second
         | $20,000 dual frequency receiver, and taking an extra guy any
         | time you go out to do a survey, whose job is just to guard the
         | base station.
         | 
         | This made a $2000 a year network correction service seem like
         | great value for money!
         | 
         | Some networks offer more affordable options these days - such
         | as weekly and hourly licenses for drone pilots.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | This should be another crowdsourced sensor fabric network,
           | like air quality sensors, AIS, ADS-B, distributed SDR, etc.
        
             | barnabee wrote:
             | https://www.onocoy.com/ seems to be doing just that.
             | 
             | I have no affiliation, and no strong opinion on their
             | specific approach, but I do find it interesting and have
             | thought about running a node, especially since enjoying
             | fiddling around with LoRa / Meshtastic.
        
             | gytisgreitai wrote:
             | http://rtk2go.com/
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | We've got a ublox ZED-F9P feeding into that. Station name
               | JasonWiebeDairy. We set it up for RTK for AgOpenGPS - a
               | FOSS auto-steer/mapping/control for agriculture.
        
           | RedlineTriad wrote:
           | The swiss solution does come with per hour pricing but it's
           | still 0.50 CHF / minute. Which is still very expensive for
           | hobbyists.
           | 
           | I feel like the marginal costs for users is so low that it
           | would be better if it were handled as a common good like GNSS
           | systems themselves.
        
             | gytisgreitai wrote:
             | That is insane. My mower runs for ~100 minutes per day.
             | This means 50CHF per day which as I see is around 50 euros.
             | Home made base station cost with unicore gnss is around 220
             | euros...
        
               | Leherenn wrote:
               | The traditional use case was for surveyors to use it. In
               | that regard it's pretty cheap.
        
         | stereo wrote:
         | Luxembourg's RTK system is completely free to use:
         | https://act.public.lu/fr/gps-reseaux/spslux1.html
        
         | ale42 wrote:
         | I'm not totally sure why, but it was free for nonprofit
         | research (university) use until 1-2 years ago. Now it's still
         | cheaper than for the rest of the users, but still very
         | expensive also for researchers.
        
       | auspiv wrote:
       | Many US states also have their own (free) CORS networks,
       | primarily from transportation departments. NOAA helps keep track
       | of them all. Not many of these are realtime unfortunately.
       | 
       | https://geodesy.noaa.gov/CORS/
       | 
       | US overview:
       | 
       | https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=19038...
        
       | banish-m4 wrote:
       | Real-Time Kinematic - Differential GNSS updates broadcasted by
       | radio or other means that aid accuracy while moving. It was a
       | Trimble (GPS) marketing term around 2000 just prior to SA that
       | was able to defeat it and offer 10mm horizontal error and 1m
       | vertical error.
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I worked on firmware on RTK radio gear.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | I believe the various networks that supplement GPS/GNSS systems
       | are called SBAS
       | 
       | (the USA has WAAS for aircraft)
       | 
       | and the fantastic opensource GPSTest app will show you what your
       | device supports
       | 
       | https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest
        
         | eqvinox wrote:
         | You're confusing 2 different things here. SBAS gets you
         | (roughly) from 5m to 1m, to meet requirements for aviation use.
         | RTK gets you from 5m to <0.1m. Both use base stations to
         | monitor deviations, but for RTK the base station is intended to
         | be <100km from you and the data needs to have as little delay
         | as possible. SBAS base stations are a few per continent & don't
         | care about delay to the same degree.
        
         | BenjiWiebe wrote:
         | The SB in SBAS stands for satellite based. RTK is ground
         | station based.
        
       | muyfine wrote:
       | There was a survey of available GNSS corrections services from a
       | couple of years ago - some of these services are global and not
       | limited to a single country:
       | 
       | https://medium.com/@mikehorton/what-is-a-mass-market-gnss-co...
        
       | eqvinox wrote:
       | It is worth mentioning that you can set up your own RTK
       | installation buy grabbing 2 higher-end GNSS receivers1,
       | installing one of them in a fixed location with reasonable sky
       | view, and measuring it in for a week or two. You can then feed
       | correction data from that to your 2nd receiver. Search for
       | RTKlib. (Some GNSS receivers even have built-in source & sink
       | handling.)
       | 
       | Also, the GNSS software in most phones is sadly unable to accept
       | the correction data from any of these systems, regardless of
       | whether it's a nationwide network or your personal setup. This is
       | purely a software limitation on the vendor GNSS stack, but sadly
       | there is not enough demand for this. (An app will not fix this,
       | we're talking vendor specific low level system code here.)
       | 
       | [1] e.g. u-blox T/R series, but check specific descriptions about
       | raw output/RTK capabilities, it changes between generations. You
       | also want recent ones with RTCMv3, not RTCMv2.x.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Is that true even for the relatively new Android "raw GNSS"
         | API? https://developer.android.com/develop/sensors-and-
         | location/s...
         | 
         | I believe Google are using that themselves for their "urban
         | canyon" GPS improvements: https://android-
         | developers.googleblog.com/2020/12/improving-...
        
           | wibr wrote:
           | The API would provide pseudoranges and also the carrier phase
           | on some phones, so it should be possible to calculate a
           | solution with corrections.
        
           | aantix wrote:
           | Does this api improve on GPS drift?
           | 
           | Or is it up to the engineer to decide how to best to use
           | these improvements?
        
       | ShakataGaNai wrote:
       | Andreas Spiess, the youtuber with a swiss accent, recently did a
       | video on GNSS w/ RTK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1LBFDj2MA
       | 
       | Goes into detail about how to setup your own, join existing
       | networks, even using fairly inexpensive tooling for your own RTK
       | adventures.
        
         | chpwssn wrote:
         | Sparkfun also has an interesting writeup on how you could set
         | up a base station and feed into networks as well
         | https://docs.sparkfun.com/SparkFun_RTK_Firmware/permanent_ba...
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | I love his channel, and not only because of the accent. True no
         | nonsense stuff. His videos about LoRa are brilliant.
         | 
         | I am especially gratefy for his video about power measurements
         | of microcontrollers. It's really common sense for everyone with
         | a little bit of electronics background but I've seen so many
         | people (some who should have known better) just sticking a
         | multimeter onto it and calling it a day that someone really
         | explaining patiently and in simple terms, why this often does
         | not really work is a godsend.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-10 23:00 UTC)