[HN Gopher] Selling 'Ghost in the Shell'
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Selling 'Ghost in the Shell'
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2024-05-06 14:48 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (animationobsessive.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (animationobsessive.substack.com)
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | Ghost In The Shell suffers from really dragging in the middle.
       | 
       | There's a bunch a bunch of sequences which go on just way too
       | long for the total amount of plot in the film, and there's a lot
       | of missing context for the main character's motivation: we just
       | kind of get a couple big exposition dumps, but no real feel for
       | who the Major is or why the core conceit of the plot matters to
       | her.
       | 
       | The Stand Alone Complex series, conversely, is amazing.
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | Glad to hear that. I am about to get on the SAC wagon.
        
         | Malcolmlisk wrote:
         | I remember enjoying the episodes who were outside of the
         | central plot from SAC and SAC2. That episode when they explain
         | the past of the sniper character and how he got recruited by
         | the major was amazing and I watched it over and over.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Now this is a matter of taste, but I _love_ the slow moments
         | where the film just pans over city scenes with no dialogue.
         | Just a little time to breathe and look at the art in the middle
         | of the action. It 's a film that posits a bunch of questions
         | about human vs machine and then declines to answer them in
         | favor of letting you think about them.
        
       | nanna wrote:
       | I feel like I haven't seen an anime in years that's been in the
       | same league as Akira or the great Miyazakis (Spirited Away,
       | Princess Mononoke, Totoro). Yes i'd be brutal and include
       | Miyazakis following works in that list, from Howls Moving Castle
       | to The Boy and the Heron. Ive seen lots of incredible animation,
       | sure, but nothing like the cinematic depth.
       | 
       | What am I missing? What should an old fart who's becoming
       | convinced things were better in the old days put myself infront
       | of?
        
         | cjk2 wrote:
         | There is good stuff out there. I watched Pantheon and
         | Scavengers Reign recently, both excellent, but not old stable
         | anime.
         | 
         | Scavengers Reign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWQH8cMpWTU
         | 
         | Pantheon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_HJ3TSlo5c
        
           | duggan wrote:
           | I'm slowly working my way through Scavengers Reign, it's
           | absolutely brilliant -- somewhere between Alien and Stanislaw
           | Lem's The Invincible.
        
           | The5thElephant wrote:
           | Not enough people know about Pantheon.
           | 
           | However both Scavenger's Reign and Pantheon feel distinctly
           | different from Japanese anime. They have a much more Western
           | aesthetic eye visually, narratively, and especially in terms
           | of music I feel.
        
         | austin-cheney wrote:
         | My favorite is Patlabor 2.
         | 
         | Here is the Japanese cultural explainer (spoiler):
         | https://youtu.be/ybLKmO5Kq5A?si=bzIEK436EeWF_o5s
        
           | flobosg wrote:
           | I haven't watched it yet, but reading this article a while
           | ago got me interested:
           | 
           |  _' Patlabor 2: The Movie' has stunningly realistic aerial
           | combat_ - https://taskandpurpose.com/culture/realistic-
           | aerial-combat-m...
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | I didn't understand why people kept recommending this until I
           | spotted that the director is Mamoru Oshii, director of GitS.
           | It's perfectly reasonable as a standalone film without having
           | seen 1. And it's good in the same ways as GitS; mix of
           | action, political thriller, and lingering artistic set piece.
        
         | gbuk2013 wrote:
         | This is heavily biased by my preferred genre of anime but here
         | are some my favourite more recent anime series off the top of
         | my head:
         | 
         | Full metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist:_Brother...
         | 
         | Attack on Titan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Titan
         | 
         | Mushishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushishi
         | 
         | Frieren: Beyond Journey's End
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frieren
        
           | Tor3 wrote:
           | Strangely (maybe), but Attack on Titan I can't stand, and I
           | didn't care much for any of the Full metal Alchemist ones,
           | but Frieren is one of the absolutely best shows I've ever
           | watched.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | > Attack on Titan
           | 
           | Ugh. Such an incredibly padded, dragged out story. :( :( :(
           | 
           | Maybe the first season was decent, but after the 3rd season
           | it was mostly just boring to the point where skipping
           | episodes didn't miss anything.
           | 
           | Never bothered to watch anything after about the 3rd season.
           | It became far too tedious.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Yeah, Frieren was good. It closely matches the manga version
           | of the story, though the manga goes on quite lot further
           | story wise.
           | 
           | Should be plenty more seasons of material ready for
           | adaptation there. :)
        
             | gbuk2013 wrote:
             | Still working my way through season 3 so may change my
             | mind. :) Any recommendations?
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Yeah, I wrote a whole list a few comments up (or down).
               | You can't miss it. :)
               | 
               | As a quick thought, have you seen Cyberpunk Edgerunners,
               | and Made in Abyss?
               | 
               | For stupid fun (mood dependent), then probably One-Punch
               | Man:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Punch_Man
               | 
               | It's super famous these days, so you've probably already
               | seen it. ;)
               | 
               | Personally, I also really liked "Hai to Gensou no
               | Grimgar" due to its focus on character growth rather than
               | action:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimgar_of_Fantasy_and_Ash
               | 
               | But, not everyone's a fan.
        
               | gbuk2013 wrote:
               | Cyberpunk Edgerunners was good, Made in Abyss was too but
               | I have to say it got borderline too depressing for me by
               | the end of the last season.
               | 
               | OPM I really can't stand - dropped it just after a few
               | episodes. :)
               | 
               | Hai to Gensou no Grimgar had a lot of promise with a
               | different take on the common theme, but pity it looks
               | like it will not be continued. :(
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Yeah, that's a fair point. I haven't yet watched the 3rd
               | season of Made in Abyss. Have been hesitant to do so due
               | to its reputation. ;)
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Hai to Gensou no Grimgar has both manga, and light
               | novels, that stretch on for many more chapters past the
               | anime. The Manga was good and continues on well from the
               | anime. After reaching the end of that I picked up the
               | light novels to continue on further.
               | 
               | Unfortunately (around novel 13 I think?) the author
               | clearly didn't know what to do with the story and it
               | turned silly and boring, so I moved on to other stuff. :(
        
               | gbuk2013 wrote:
               | Somehow I never got into reading manga, probably a good
               | thing too - I checked my MAL stats and I says I have
               | watched 330+ shows and I know I have been lazy and not
               | rating all of them ...
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Heh Heh Heh
               | 
               | Since you're not into Manga, this url probably won't be
               | of interest then: ;)
               | 
               | https://mangakatana.com/manga/kaiju-no-8.24869/c1
               | 
               | * If you visit it, make sure you have an ad blocker. Too
               | many ads otherwise.
               | 
               | * Japanese manga is read from right to left, the opposite
               | of western comics. Just saying. :)
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | The plot suddenly shoots forward in the 3rd season, from
             | memory. The season where they start explaining everything.
        
           | tiniuclx wrote:
           | Frieren is a modern classic, with some of the best animation
           | I've ever seen & deals with the themes of companionship and
           | regret in a surprisingly mature way. It would be my
           | recommendation for sure!
        
           | ngc248 wrote:
           | Mushishi is so atmospheric and just amazing
           | 
           | Also for some madcap anime FLCL ... that is quintessential
           | anime for me.
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | That's definitely a "depends on your taste" thing. :)
         | 
         | [The below are mostly series rather than movies]
         | 
         | For something that's really interesting, and also family
         | friendly, Den-noh Coil is really good:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den-noh_Coil
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | A similar "feel" kind of thing (family friendly) to the above
         | is The Orbital Children:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orbital_Children
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | For stand out story, probably Made in Abyss:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Abyss
         | 
         | Due to the animation style, it looks like a kid/teen focused
         | show at first. Don't be fooled, it's _really_ not.
         | 
         | It has some incredibly complex (dark) themes. DON'T let young
         | people watch that one (emotional trauma likely!).
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | If something "a bit different" is on the cards, then Cyberpunk
         | Edgerunners is extremely good (I reckon):
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk:_Edgerunners
         | 
         | That's more of a Eastern+Western collaboration styling wise
         | rather than pure Japanese anime. It's still a really good watch
         | though. :)
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Another western style one that's really good is Scavengers
         | Reign:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scavengers_Reign
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Movies wise, probably Redline (2009) and Belle are the first to
         | mind for me:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redline_(2009_film)
         | 
         | Very unique animation style, not everyone's cup of tea. ;)
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_(2021_film)
         | 
         | Also family friendly. :)
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | It's hard to understand if you are including Boy and Heron or
         | not. If you are, then obviously there are recent master pieces.
         | 
         | But I'd say you are in for a treat: Satoshi Kon.
         | 
         | Perfect Blue, Paprika, Tokyo Godfather are all cinematic master
         | pieces!
         | 
         | I also mostly agree with the hype that surrounded "Your Name",
         | although I don't think Makoto's other works are nearly as
         | impressive.
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | Your Name (2016, Makoto Shinkai) and Ping Pong the Animation
         | (2014, Masaaki Yuasa) are both IMO top notch (and the creators
         | are active and have extensive oeuvres). The Shape of Voice
         | (2016, Kyoto Animation (RIP)) was also much acclaimed. Of
         | these, I recommend Ping Pong the most (and Yuasa's other works
         | as well).
         | 
         | I suppose for more sci-fi/fantasy, Rebuild of Evangelion
         | (2007-2021) might be interesting, although to me, its
         | popularity in Japan and why the retelling was made is actually
         | more interesting to me than the works themselves. It didn't win
         | any particular awards or acclaim, but I was a fan of the
         | incredibly stylish manga series, and I personally enjoyed the
         | Blame! (2017, Hiroyuki Shesita) CGI anime film for those into
         | the Japanese post-cyber-apocalypse sci-fi aesthetic.
         | 
         | I think these days, the economics of anime has driven more
         | interesting work into series rather than features. Recently
         | some memorable ones I've enjoyed are Steins;Gate (2011-2015,
         | White Fox), Devilman: Crybaby (2018, Studio SARU), Cyberpunk:
         | Edgerunners (2022, Trigger), Pluto (2023, M2), and Frieren
         | (2023, Madhouse).
        
         | mauvia wrote:
         | Have you tried any of Satoshi Kon's movies?
         | 
         | Tokyo Godfathers is an amazing and deeply human christmas
         | comedy about homeless people in the Tokyo streets, filled with
         | magical moments of cinematography.
         | 
         | Paprika is a less lighthearted story about inner lives, dreams
         | and ambitions set across a sci fi backdrop where people are
         | learning to enter each other's dreams and link them together.
         | It has gorgeous dreamscapes and an amazing soundtrack as well
         | as a fascinating plot and interesting characters.
         | 
         | Thre's also Makoto Shinkai's movies, which have good
         | cinematography and interesting themes and soundtrack, as well
         | as somewhat interesting characters (though a bit samey). Your
         | Name is excellent, with Weathering with You and Suzume being
         | good but not great. 5 Centimeters per second is nice as well.
         | Children who chase lost voices underground is his most Ghibli
         | movie and I'd say it definitely gets the tone and aesthetics
         | right for the Nausica/Mononoke era of Ghibli.
         | 
         | On the Ghibli side, I quite enjoyed Studio Ponoc's Modest
         | Heroes, which was a collection of shorts by Studio Ponoc (which
         | has some Ghibli Veterans in it as well as younger talent I
         | believe). Kanini and Kanino has the adventure elements and
         | aesthetics, Life ain't gonna lose has the small child PoV
         | element, Invisible has the social elements.
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | I was just about to recommend Satoshi Kon! Unfortunately, he
           | only directed four movies before he died of cancer at the age
           | of 47. What a tragic loss!
           | 
           | I also enjoyed "Your Name".
        
           | livueta wrote:
           | On Kon, Paranoia Agent is also excellent. And if we're taking
           | 2000s shows into account, I also have to mention Kuuchuu
           | Buranko in that category of Paranoia Agent-reminiscent
           | sociologically interesting shows.
        
         | windowshopping wrote:
         | "A Silent Voice" is the best anime film of the 2010s in my
         | opinion and comes closer to matching Miyazaki than anything
         | else I've seen, in terms of the power of storytelling. Miyazaki
         | is still better, but it's extremely good.
         | 
         | I also enjoyed "Wolf Children" a lot. As others have said,
         | "Your Name" is stellar too, and "5cm/sec" is pretty damn
         | excellent.
        
         | 0xDEADFED5 wrote:
         | Texhnolyze
        
         | Madmallard wrote:
         | Cowboy Bebop: The Movie
         | 
         | Your Name
         | 
         | Violet Evergarden
         | 
         | Perfect Blue
         | 
         | Paprika
         | 
         | Metropolis
         | 
         | There's a bunch of great animated movies.
         | 
         | If you're referring to series then among the best Seinen
         | classics are shows like:
         | 
         | Berzerk (1997)
         | 
         | Monster (2004) [My personal favorite]
         | 
         | Cowboy Bebop
         | 
         | Steins:Gate
         | 
         | Vinland Saga (newer)
         | 
         | Frieren (newer)
         | 
         | There's a lot of Shounen classics as well, my favorite probably
         | being
         | 
         | Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
         | 
         | granted there's several tropes in it that aren't going to be as
         | enjoyable to watch on repeat for older folks. But the
         | storytelling and plot is practically like Breaking Bad but in
         | anime form.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | All these people giving recs are doing it wrong. You can
         | determine if an anime is worth your time by merely looking at
         | the title and what the source material is and the following
         | simple system:
         | 
         | Candidates start with 5 points. If they have a positive score
         | after applying the system, they're at least worth checking out
         | (although they will not necessarily be good). If not, you are
         | likely wasting your time.
         | 
         | 1) Every word in the title past the third is worth -1 point.
         | This includes particles and abbreviations.
         | 
         | 2) Each word in the subtitle is worth -0.5 points.
         | 
         | 3) Any of the following words or close synonyms are worth -2
         | points on top of any other penalties: Academy, Ability, Cheat,
         | Dungeon, Elf, Game, Goblin, Harem, Hero, Idol, Isekai, Level,
         | Loop, Maou, MMO, Mob, Online, Overlord, Party, Player, Re(used
         | as a prefix), Reincarnation, "The Animation"(verbatim only),
         | Vampire, Villainess, Virtual, VR, VTuber, Wizard
         | 
         | 4) Subtract an additional point for every word that implies
         | this is a remake, spinoff, adaptation or sequel, such as "Kai",
         | "Gaiden", "2nd" (3rd, etc.), "New", et cetera.
         | 
         | 5) Even though you already subtracted a point for "Isekai" in
         | step 3. If the title contains the word "Isekai", subtract an
         | additional 5 points.
         | 
         | 6) Apply the following adjustment based on the source material:
         | History: +3 (Applying only to direct adaptations of historical
         | events, not merely using historical theming) Literary Fiction:
         | +2 Original Work: +1 Other: +1 OVA: +0.5 Live Action: +0 Web
         | Animation/Motion Comic/Music Video: +0 Comic: +0 Video Game: -1
         | Light Novel: -1 Writeup of someone's D&D session: -1 CCG: -2
         | Web Novel: -5 Mobile Game: -10 "Multimedia Project" (This is
         | just a mobile game that doesn't exist yet): -10 Social Media
         | Post: -100
        
           | ojhughes wrote:
           | I really enjoyed "Re:ZERO - Starting Life in Another World"
           | despite it scoring -11.5 using your system (Isekai translates
           | to another world)
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | If you hadn't seen Now and Then, Here and There, or Twelve
             | Kingdoms, or read Red River, then maybe it'd seem fresh and
             | interesting, but I dropped Re:Zero pretty early. Good genre
             | fiction still has something to say about the real world,
             | and Re:Zero felt like it was trying so hard to subvert
             | genre expectations set by other fiction that it forgot
             | that.
        
           | msp26 wrote:
           | Petty much yeah. Agreed on historical anime/manga generally
           | being higher quality by default. The research required tends
           | to filter hack authors.
           | 
           | Have you read Magus of the Library?
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | I have not. I have a completely different set of criteria
             | for choosing manga because their production process is so
             | different than for anime. I have a tendency to only buy
             | physical copies, so if something never catches my eye in a
             | book shop, or never makes it into a book shop, I will
             | probably never even know it exists if it's not by an author
             | I already know.
        
           | sterlind wrote:
           | I'm amused that Hetalia: Axis Powers gets the highest
           | possible score.
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | Only the first season. (And appropriately, I didn't think
             | later seasons were as good when the novelty wore off.)
        
         | justinclift wrote:
         | From the other angle, what's the absolute crappiest anime
         | you've seen and would steer everyone away from?
         | 
         | The stand out crappiest anime I'm aware of is the "Blade
         | Runner: Black Lotus" series:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_Runner:_Black_Lotus
         | 
         | Truly terrible in every aspect. Story, animation, dialog, etc.
         | Outstandingly bad. :(
        
         | ogurechny wrote:
         | > What am I missing?
         | 
         | Everything that is not in "Studio Ghibli" wide angle fairy tale
         | style? A number of external films have imitated it, some of
         | them better than the other.
         | 
         | As a side note, "Studio Ghibli" is also not at all equal to
         | "Hayao Miyazaki".
         | 
         | Say, "Madoka Magica" is certainly large scale, but in totally
         | different style. "Denno Coil" and "Eizouken" has that sense of
         | adventure you can't really describe. And "Drifting Home" is
         | magical, nostalgic, and colourful in its own manner.
         | 
         | I you need some "respected opinion", here's a list:
         | 
         | https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/lists/50-key-anime-fi...
         | 
         | It's... okay. Everyone -- for a certain definition of attentive
         | viewers -- knows most of those.
         | 
         | It is not wise to limit yourself to movies. As mentioned,
         | animated movie is a big investment that can flop at once, while
         | series can be steered somehow in a different
         | production/financing direction, or can become a good
         | merchandise source. Therefore, a lot of movies are more or less
         | straightforward derivatives of existing hit works which rely on
         | the fan crowd. Those make money for more experimental original
         | works.
        
         | bpiche wrote:
         | Browse some ranked lists (series and OVAs) over at
         | MyAnimeList.net. Tons of good stuff out there. Though, things
         | were better in the old days. No arguing that.
        
         | livueta wrote:
         | If we're specifically talking stuff from the last few years,
         | and if shows count, I gotta put in a word for ODDTAXI. Feels
         | like a mashup of the best parts of Yuasa Masaaki and Kon
         | Satoshi works.
        
       | djaouen wrote:
       | Ahh, anime's heyday. I remember borrowing Samurai Champloo on VHS
       | from my friend around that time when I was in high school... good
       | times!
        
         | duggan wrote:
         | Champloo came out in 2004, wasn't VHS a distant memory by then,
         | or was I just "living in the future"? :)
         | 
         | Sure you're not thinking of Cowboy Bebop?
        
           | djaouen wrote:
           | It might have been. Even then, I remember thinking that it
           | was odd that it came on VHS. Thanks for the trip down memory
           | lane!
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | Could well have been a "fansub" circulating on copied VHS.
        
         | christiaanb wrote:
         | Perhaps the only anime where the voice actor for one of the
         | Dutch characters actually speaks proper Dutch (as opposed to
         | e.g. German or very broken Dutch). Although they picked a weird
         | translation for the concept of boss/chief/ranking officer, and
         | they chose "opperhoofd"; which as a Dutch person is something
         | you associate as a person that is the head of a tribe, not
         | ranking officer.
        
       | bostik wrote:
       | I hadn't realised _Jin-Roh_ was from the same creator. And I can
       | see why it wasn 't a success: _Jin-Roh_ is dark, properly
       | dystopian, confusing, and unforgiving. But underneath there is a
       | retold story of the little red riding-hood, in the original Grimm
       | fashion.
       | 
       | The wolf wins.
        
         | GauntletWizard wrote:
         | Jin-Roh is but part of Oshii's other magnum opus, The Kerberos
         | Saga: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerberos_Saga . I haven't
         | read the second half, which wasn't available in english when I
         | first saw Jin Roh, but I've heard that The Red Spectacles and
         | StrayDog are great if you liked it, but hard to find. I should
         | retry that search one of these days.
        
       | imp0cat wrote:
       | Oh it's nice to see Animation Obsessive here. Their blog
       | https://animationobsessive.substack.com/ is worthy of a
       | subscription - most of their articles are both informative and
       | very well written.
        
       | chambers wrote:
       | I rewatched Ghost in the Shell recently and I was struck by how
       | poorly it aged. Its animation holds up but its story felt weaker
       | than I remembered. Like the director reached for something deep,
       | couldn't get ahold of it, and then covered his tracks behind
       | wordy philosophy.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | >director reached for something deep, couldn't get ahold of it
         | 
         | Translation/writing/dub wasn't very strong at the time, I can
         | see how ppl feel now (and felt at the time) the
         | headiness/philosophizng was filler for robot tanks and augment
         | porn, but it was all there in the source manga by Shirow. IMO
         | reaching for something deep about is what the series is all
         | about, just explored more competently in shows like SAC where
         | they had many hours to deep dwelve into many subjects.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | The original manga delivers it better because...
         | 
         | ... Shirow filled in gaps between panels with tons and tons of
         | notes, discussing details, sometimes pointing to source
         | material, etc.
         | 
         | One of the worst things about it is that none of the GitS 1.0,
         | 1.5 and 2.0 come with bibliography section - they _need_ it.
        
         | ranger207 wrote:
         | Ghost in the Shell was one of the first animes I saw, but while
         | I quickly switched from dubs to subs, I only rewatched GitS
         | subbed fairly recently. The subtitles are far better than the
         | dubbed audio, and I'd encourage anyone who has only seen it
         | dubbed to attempt watching it subbed instead
        
         | mejutoco wrote:
         | What do you think about the matrix (the movie)?
        
       | Shinchy wrote:
       | I'm not sure what others are saying, I re-watched Ghost in the
       | Shell again recently and I had forgotten just how brilliant it
       | is. There is something pure about it that you just don't find in
       | modern anime, something that really resonated.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | That something is acetate.
        
           | xorbax wrote:
           | This is why I think Akira can't be surpassed. Not just
           | because it was done on acetate, but because of the level of
           | skill and consideration required to animate that way. You
           | can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try
           | something else.
           | 
           | As much as technology has democratized the field, I think it
           | also lowers the heights. I desperately hope I'm wrong and
           | just old, but I haven't met someone who puts up something
           | that they think is better. Maybe it's just because we're in
           | the transitory phase - but digital animation has been around
           | for decades at this point. Maybe it's Ikea versus
           | handcrafting, and the shift is in the expected quality rather
           | than the art elevating itself to meet priors.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | Every part of GiS has been, per article "endlessly ripped off,
         | referenced and remixed". Whatever one liked about original GiS,
         | there's a derivation out there that turns dial to 11 and makes
         | the original feel basic in retrospect. But that's testimony to
         | GiS greatness.
        
           | satvikpendem wrote:
           | There is a common trope about this very effect: https://tvtro
           | pes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowC...
        
       | rekabis wrote:
       | The author fails in their understanding of Anime's history in
       | North America.
       | 
       | While certain series such as The White Lion, Astroboy, Space
       | Battleship Yamato (marketed over here as Starblazors) and Captain
       | Harlock did see airtime first, it was Robotech - the Harmony Gold
       | Frankenstein of three completely unrelated Anime series - that
       | kicked off the process in 1984. It was Robotech that threw rocket
       | fuel onto the burning embers of fandom in North America. Akira
       | just helped the process along.
        
         | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
         | There was very little "anime" in North America. If you prefer
         | your animation with an acute accent, you're better off looking
         | in France.
        
         | kagakuninja wrote:
         | As a member of the underground anime scene, starting in the
         | late 70s, I have a different perspective.
         | 
         | Harmony Gold did nothing to actually promote anime, beyond
         | hyping their own products. Robotech was the English translated
         | anime that happened to be on air in the US when the necessary
         | conditions for the anime explosion were in place.
         | 
         | Those conditions were:
         | 
         | Affordable VCRs (in the 70s, they cost as much as a small car).
         | 
         | The Usenet / internet (for coordinating, sharing information,
         | and creating tape sharing networks).
         | 
         | Low cost computer video platforms for subtitling (e.g. Amiga +
         | Video Toaster).
         | 
         | In terms of popularity, people forget that Speed Racer, Kimba,
         | etc were broadcast on network television, and had far more
         | impact on popular culture than Robotech, which was syndicated.
         | 
         | Captain Harlock ironically what got me interested in anime in
         | the late '70s. It was not widely broadcast in the continental
         | US, until Harmony Gold's despicable hack job which came after
         | Robotech.
         | 
         | One source of subtitled anime in the 70s was from Hawaii, which
         | has a significant Japanese population. But to get that required
         | having contacts with one of those very expensive VCRs.
        
       | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
       | Just a notice that all Blu-Rays of the 95 GITS are all completely
       | and hopelessly mangled (cropped, blurred and black crushed). The
       | only "good" version is an old HDTV rip that was remastered by
       | Judgment; but with some heavy smudging in the process, a heavy
       | film grain shader to mask this is recommended.
       | 
       | BD:
       | http://comp.judging.it/content/Koukaku%20Kidoutai/1080p-3/BD...
       | 
       | HDTV:
       | http://comp.judging.it/content/Koukaku%20Kidoutai/1080p-3/Ju...
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | GITS is highly relevant today, but I can understand why the
       | Hollywood remake gutted the original story, because GITS is a
       | highly subversive work that directly attacks the authoritarian
       | state's bureaucratic power structure. It's also the story of the
       | transformation of a loyal servant of one of the state agencies,
       | Major Kusangi, into an independent rogue agent who abandons that
       | power structure in alliance with some form of synthetic
       | intelligence, Project 2501.
       | 
       | What sets it apart from similar rogue spy stories is the heavy
       | emphasis on philosophical concepts - the Ship of Theseus in the
       | context of a cyborg human whose every part has been replaced over
       | time, the nature of self and other in the context of the merger
       | of the Major's identity with that of P2501, the point at which
       | obedience to the authoritarian state is abandoned and the
       | rationale for that choice - all notions that make established
       | power structures uneasy, and which accounts for the atrocious
       | garbled plot line of the Hollywood remake.
        
       | bellboy_tech wrote:
       | GITS is amazing as a design universe. The more you dig into the
       | manga or movies (even the SACs) the deeper you get sucked in to
       | what could be. From the vision of mind interfaces to the dream of
       | mind across the net. It was WAY ahead of it's time and still
       | stands up today.
       | 
       | Every crevasse of the original Manga contains deep thought out
       | design on what digital life could become. What constructs we
       | become once we crossed that digital/biological line.
       | 
       | Love it. Happy to buy into the sell.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-10 23:02 UTC)