[HN Gopher] What makes a translation great?
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       What makes a translation great?
        
       Author : ignored
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2024-05-04 23:04 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
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       | loughnane wrote:
       | English-only speaker here.
       | 
       | A good translation is one where the "good" in the original comes
       | through. That might be a concept, a story, or even the rhythm of
       | the words. Great books especially have _many_ good things that a
       | translation needs to handle. Translation is hard because
       | sometimes translating a "feel" might come at a loss of the
       | clarity needed to express an idea.
       | 
       | I like what Emerson said about it in "Books"
       | 
       | > What is really best in any book is translatable, - any real
       | insight or broad human sentiment. Nay, I observe that, in our
       | Bible, and other books of lofty moral tone, it seems easy and
       | inevitable to render the rhythm and music of the original into
       | phrases of equal melody.
        
       | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
       | The objective of a translator should be to retain the spirit of
       | the original, and have the translated piece _stand on its own two
       | feet as a work of literature._ This is why Ezra Pound and
       | Christopher Logue were such good translators.
       | 
       | Pound translated into English the Analects of Confucius, a bunch
       | of Noh Plays, and many other works of Chinese and Japanese
       | literature. But he was barely capable of reading Chinese or
       | Japanese at all. He was provided with rough word-for-word
       | translations by friends like Ernest Fenollosa, and he translated
       | _those_ into literature.
       | 
       | Logue didn't know any Ancient Greek, but his rendition of a part
       | of the Iliad is probably the greatest achievement of late 20th
       | century poetry. He simply re-worked the (many) _existing_ English
       | translations into something more lyrical and contemporary. In
       | effect, he reinterpreted the existing body of translations --
       | and, in his own way, heightened their effect, and captured much
       | of the spirit of the original.
       | 
       | I find that most translations -- especially of poetry -- tend to
       | be altogether too mechanical. Pound and Logue had it figured out.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | >A good translation wants to be read
       | 
       | So much this. For example I think a lot of people would actually
       | enjoy Iliad and Odyssey more if their first experience weren't in
       | dactylic hexameter.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | Yes. I rather liked "The War Nerd Iliad" by John Dolan ("War
         | Nerd" is a moniker that Dolan used in a column he used to
         | write). It's basically a version of the Iliad that eschews the
         | poetry and tells the story in a straightforward fashion. It's
         | actually quite moving in a way.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Thanks never heard about that book but just ordered it
        
       | kolme wrote:
       | I'm quite proficient in German and English, but still translating
       | is astonishing hard, even into my mother tongue Spanish. The
       | translation always sounds weird. I'm always in awe at great
       | translations.
       | 
       | When I read translated texts (or watch dubbed films) I always
       | catch false friends or awkward translations, and I "see" the
       | original through the translation like it was a leaky abstraction.
       | It's so tricky even the pros make a lot of mistakes.
        
       | Smaug123 wrote:
       | I enjoyed Hofstadter's _Le ton beau de Marot_, which is precisely
       | about this question; it studies many people's different
       | translations of one particular obscure poem, and asks what
       | properties of the original should be preserved.
        
         | markc wrote:
         | I came here to mention this book also. I learned a lot. He
         | explores a mind numbing number of properties which are
         | potentially in the mix. They depend in turn on the properties
         | of the source material. (Authors play all kinds of games with
         | meter and structure and arbitrary constraints - and preserving
         | some can come at the cost of deprecating others.)
         | 
         | One warning: among the genuinely deep insights, Hofstadter can
         | occasionally come off as smug and self-congratulatory about his
         | own poetic genius. I found this rather off-putting - and
         | surprising since I found the tone of G.E.B. rather more like
         | enthusiastic play.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | I have that book! Somewhere ...
        
       | Dalewyn wrote:
       | To answer what is a great translation, we first need to ask _to
       | whom_ it should be great.
       | 
       | The readers? The only thing that makes a translation great for
       | them is whether the translated text reads well. Whether the
       | translation is accurate to the source material is irrelevant; the
       | readers literally can't tell and don't care, that's why they are
       | reading a translation!
       | 
       | The publishers or whoever hired the translator(s)? The most
       | important thing for them is speed of translation, how many words
       | per minute. Accuracy and reading well are secondary to speed.
       | Time is money.
       | 
       | The translators themselves? Depending on whether these are
       | amateurs translating out of passion or professionals translating
       | for a living, what makes a translation great is going to be
       | either accuracy or speed (time is money!) respectively.
       | 
       | Personally, speaking as a Japanese-American who has done amateur
       | translations (anime fansubs) at one point, being a translator is
       | terrible; the absolute worst thing about it is that the work is
       | thankless. Whoever reads your translations simply can't
       | appreciate quality, and if you're translating for someone for
       | hire there are usually more pressing concerns over quality.[1]
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/dnpzrh/everyone...
        
         | getoj wrote:
         | >Whether the translation is accurate to the source material is
         | irrelevant; the readers literally can't tell and don't care
         | 
         | As a professional translator, I cherish those readers. They
         | have the good sense to trust me to do the technical part
         | (understanding the original) and only criticize the artistic
         | part (producing a beautiful derivative work).
         | 
         | The worst readers are the ones who have some knowledge of the
         | source language, and rush to nitpick the technical decisions
         | without considering the artistic ones. They are the literary
         | equivalent of those "fans" who will watch a stunning film
         | adaptation and then go home to complain about the colour of
         | Gandalf's shoes or the width of a sand worm's molars.
         | Ultimately, readers of this type are all ego, more concerned
         | about being right than about whether the work is good.
         | 
         | The very best readers, of course, are knowledgeable in both
         | languages and understand that "equivalence" goes far beyond
         | what is written in the dictionary. But as you say, they don't
         | need the translation!
        
       | derbOac wrote:
       | I'm always so torn about reading translations, especially of
       | poetry. I do read them and value them but I always wonder what
       | was lost in doing so.
       | 
       | I have a bit of a sense of this having learned a couple of
       | languages enough to be aware of what's lost in translation, and
       | examples of good and bad translations.
        
       | feikname wrote:
       | To me a great translation should have Translator Notes (TN) and
       | not be afraid of using neologisms. It seems TNs used to be more
       | common but are increasingly rare.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | My two _Jabberwocky_ translations:
       | 
       | https://www.kylheku.com/~kaz/gayabokin.html
       | 
       | https://www.kylheku.com/~kaz/blabovluk.html
        
       | wkjagt wrote:
       | I feel that I am very sensitive to "translations sounding like
       | translations". A feeling of "that isn't quite how a native person
       | would say that, but I can't really identify what's wrong". My
       | mother tongue is Dutch, and the strange thing is that with the
       | strong influence of the English language, even a lot of content
       | written in Dutch today sounds like it was translated from
       | English. I find it really hard to explain it clearly though. Does
       | anyone else feel the same and maybe knows what causes it?
        
       | dudeinjapan wrote:
       | Only a _truly great_ translator can fundamentally alter the
       | meaning of the source and get away with it. (Well played, Ted
       | Woolsey.)
        
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