[HN Gopher] How to build a $20B semiconductor fab
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       How to build a $20B semiconductor fab
        
       Author : spenrose
       Score  : 109 points
       Date   : 2024-05-04 14:42 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.construction-physics.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.construction-physics.com)
        
       | gjkood wrote:
       | I have been listening to Kai Ryssdal's Marketplace on NPR/KQED
       | the last few days on my commute home from work.
       | 
       | The topic for the last several days was on the CHIPS And Science
       | Act and the new Semiconductor Fabs being built by TSMC and Intel
       | in Phoenx, AZ.
       | 
       | It will be several years before the plants already being
       | constructed will go into production but there is a whole
       | ecosystem of current construction, education of the future
       | workforce that will need to be hired in the future. Not to
       | mention all the ancilliary companies that are needed to support
       | these gigantic plants in the area.
       | 
       | The dollars from CHIPS Act are not only bringing in the
       | manufacturing plants but will be essential to bring this lost
       | capability back to the US in the scale needed both from an
       | economic and national security perspective.
       | 
       | It was great listening to the show and the impact the CHIPS Act
       | on people's lives already happening now and in the future.
       | 
       | For anyone interested the links to the specific shows are
       | available as podcasts here.
       | 
       | https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381444600/marketplace
        
         | wuj wrote:
         | TSMC has moved many engineers from Taiwan to Phoenix. Entire
         | towns were built with accomodation, schools, ethnic grocery
         | stores from scratch. It would be interesting to see this
         | initiative's cultural and economic impact on Phoenix in the
         | years to come.
        
           | psaux wrote:
           | I did not know this, I have family in Tempe close by. Do you
           | have any references I can pass along to them?
        
             | wuj wrote:
             | Here is an article from Phoenix Business Journal:
             | 
             | https://archive.ph/dYCAF
             | 
             | > With Taiwanese transplants moving to north Phoenix in
             | droves, Arizona officials -- and a local baker -- are
             | working behind the scenes to make them feel welcome
        
             | gjkood wrote:
             | I believe the new term for Phoenix, AZ and other major
             | cities in AZ is "Silicon Desert". You can see a map of the
             | many companies in the high tech space in AZ at the
             | following site.
             | 
             | https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/
        
       | imperialdrive wrote:
       | Absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing! I just want to
       | order new phones computers laptops and servers left and right
       | now.
        
       | louthy wrote:
       | Step 1. Acquire $20b
       | 
       | Step 2. Build the $20b semiconductor fab
       | 
       | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl
        
       | ghghgfdfgh wrote:
       | Somewhat related: a high school student creating his own
       | semiconductor fav in his parent's garage on a "budget".
       | 
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg
       | 
       | It's a thoroughly interesting video, but I'm a bit disappointed
       | he never took his idea any further than he did. I'd really love
       | to see something like a 6502 being made at home.
        
         | krishadi wrote:
         | Sam is now building Atomic Semi [0] with Jim Keller (ex AMD)
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://atomicsemi.com/about/#:~:text=general%20fabrication%...
        
           | ghghgfdfgh wrote:
           | That's good for him, but it means we'll never find out in the
           | near future whether it's possible for the average person to
           | create useful ICs in their garage.
        
       | narrator wrote:
       | I've been to a number of big construction sites for business
       | purposes. When I hear, "this is a $40 million dollar project" and
       | when I see all these workmen, equipment and materials moving
       | around, I think, so this is what $40 million dollars in motion
       | looks like.
        
         | tnmom wrote:
         | Much of that money goes to permitting, admin, and insurance.
         | What you're seeing is probably the $10-20 million that wasn't
         | successfully siphoned off by bureaucrats.
        
           | bmiller2 wrote:
           | I don't know why you're being downvoted. There is a reason
           | why development volume across states is asymmetric.
        
       | deanmen wrote:
       | V
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | At what point will current fabrication plants reach their limit?
       | Is it a supply issue? Or maybe a resource constraint?
       | 
       | > Similarly, a fab will use very large amounts of ultrapure water
       | for wafer cleaning and CMP, along with the regular water for
       | things like chillers for process cooling. A large fab can use
       | millions of gallons of ultrapure water a day, as much as a town
       | of 50,000 people, and producing it requires its own specialized
       | plant.
       | 
       | This is wild. All of this water so companies can create chips
       | that will ultimately be used to ...
       | 
       | pump out "advanced" chat bots.
       | 
       | I really hope all of this sacrifice is worth it in the end.
       | Climate change is accelerating the loss of drinkable water around
       | the planet.
       | 
       | If the best we could do is a slightly better chat bot, then we
       | are doomed.
        
         | jiggawatts wrote:
         | The water is not used up, and it doesn't even evaporate, except
         | for the small amount used in evaporative chillers.
         | 
         | The big scary sounding number at the input has a big number at
         | the output.
         | 
         | Not to mention that up to 98 percent of the water is reused on
         | site. It just gets cleaned and goes back into facility. It's a
         | big loop, not an input disappearing into a parallel universe.
        
         | patmcc wrote:
         | "...as much as a town of 50,000 people"
         | 
         | This is always so funny to me. Oh, something that can make
         | enough chips for millions/billions of devices also uses as much
         | water as a small town? That sounds perfectly reasonable. Don't
         | build it in the middle of the desert, I guess, but otherwise
         | it's not a problem.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-04 23:00 UTC)