[HN Gopher] How to build a $20B semiconductor fab
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How to build a $20B semiconductor fab
Author : spenrose
Score : 109 points
Date : 2024-05-04 14:42 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.construction-physics.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.construction-physics.com)
| gjkood wrote:
| I have been listening to Kai Ryssdal's Marketplace on NPR/KQED
| the last few days on my commute home from work.
|
| The topic for the last several days was on the CHIPS And Science
| Act and the new Semiconductor Fabs being built by TSMC and Intel
| in Phoenx, AZ.
|
| It will be several years before the plants already being
| constructed will go into production but there is a whole
| ecosystem of current construction, education of the future
| workforce that will need to be hired in the future. Not to
| mention all the ancilliary companies that are needed to support
| these gigantic plants in the area.
|
| The dollars from CHIPS Act are not only bringing in the
| manufacturing plants but will be essential to bring this lost
| capability back to the US in the scale needed both from an
| economic and national security perspective.
|
| It was great listening to the show and the impact the CHIPS Act
| on people's lives already happening now and in the future.
|
| For anyone interested the links to the specific shows are
| available as podcasts here.
|
| https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381444600/marketplace
| wuj wrote:
| TSMC has moved many engineers from Taiwan to Phoenix. Entire
| towns were built with accomodation, schools, ethnic grocery
| stores from scratch. It would be interesting to see this
| initiative's cultural and economic impact on Phoenix in the
| years to come.
| psaux wrote:
| I did not know this, I have family in Tempe close by. Do you
| have any references I can pass along to them?
| wuj wrote:
| Here is an article from Phoenix Business Journal:
|
| https://archive.ph/dYCAF
|
| > With Taiwanese transplants moving to north Phoenix in
| droves, Arizona officials -- and a local baker -- are
| working behind the scenes to make them feel welcome
| gjkood wrote:
| I believe the new term for Phoenix, AZ and other major
| cities in AZ is "Silicon Desert". You can see a map of the
| many companies in the high tech space in AZ at the
| following site.
|
| https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-desert/
| imperialdrive wrote:
| Absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing! I just want to
| order new phones computers laptops and servers left and right
| now.
| louthy wrote:
| Step 1. Acquire $20b
|
| Step 2. Build the $20b semiconductor fab
|
| https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl
| ghghgfdfgh wrote:
| Somewhat related: a high school student creating his own
| semiconductor fav in his parent's garage on a "budget".
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg
|
| It's a thoroughly interesting video, but I'm a bit disappointed
| he never took his idea any further than he did. I'd really love
| to see something like a 6502 being made at home.
| krishadi wrote:
| Sam is now building Atomic Semi [0] with Jim Keller (ex AMD)
|
| [0]
| https://atomicsemi.com/about/#:~:text=general%20fabrication%...
| ghghgfdfgh wrote:
| That's good for him, but it means we'll never find out in the
| near future whether it's possible for the average person to
| create useful ICs in their garage.
| narrator wrote:
| I've been to a number of big construction sites for business
| purposes. When I hear, "this is a $40 million dollar project" and
| when I see all these workmen, equipment and materials moving
| around, I think, so this is what $40 million dollars in motion
| looks like.
| tnmom wrote:
| Much of that money goes to permitting, admin, and insurance.
| What you're seeing is probably the $10-20 million that wasn't
| successfully siphoned off by bureaucrats.
| bmiller2 wrote:
| I don't know why you're being downvoted. There is a reason
| why development volume across states is asymmetric.
| deanmen wrote:
| V
| xyst wrote:
| At what point will current fabrication plants reach their limit?
| Is it a supply issue? Or maybe a resource constraint?
|
| > Similarly, a fab will use very large amounts of ultrapure water
| for wafer cleaning and CMP, along with the regular water for
| things like chillers for process cooling. A large fab can use
| millions of gallons of ultrapure water a day, as much as a town
| of 50,000 people, and producing it requires its own specialized
| plant.
|
| This is wild. All of this water so companies can create chips
| that will ultimately be used to ...
|
| pump out "advanced" chat bots.
|
| I really hope all of this sacrifice is worth it in the end.
| Climate change is accelerating the loss of drinkable water around
| the planet.
|
| If the best we could do is a slightly better chat bot, then we
| are doomed.
| jiggawatts wrote:
| The water is not used up, and it doesn't even evaporate, except
| for the small amount used in evaporative chillers.
|
| The big scary sounding number at the input has a big number at
| the output.
|
| Not to mention that up to 98 percent of the water is reused on
| site. It just gets cleaned and goes back into facility. It's a
| big loop, not an input disappearing into a parallel universe.
| patmcc wrote:
| "...as much as a town of 50,000 people"
|
| This is always so funny to me. Oh, something that can make
| enough chips for millions/billions of devices also uses as much
| water as a small town? That sounds perfectly reasonable. Don't
| build it in the middle of the desert, I guess, but otherwise
| it's not a problem.
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