[HN Gopher] The Hidden-Pregnancy Experiment: Could I Hide My Pre...
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       The Hidden-Pregnancy Experiment: Could I Hide My Pregnancy from My
       Phone?
        
       Author : fortran77
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2024-05-04 13:28 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
        
       | mikpanko wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/cdyCT
        
       | tnmom wrote:
       | tl;dr she didn't send any obvious signals that she was pregnant,
       | and didn't get any ads. The headline only represents about four
       | paragraphs from a very long article that rambles all over the
       | place.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | Thanks for saving me the time, I was wondering if she will go
         | into more detail, but the more I read the it went sideways.
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | Then eventually she dropped the experiment, proving just how
         | easy it is for one slip-up to tip them off:
         | 
         | > My modest experiment went surprisingly smoothly. Because I'd
         | had my first child not long before, this time I didn't need to
         | buy anything, and I didn't want to learn anything. I smooth-
         | brained my way to three months, four months, five; no diaper
         | ads. I called up a lawyer and data-privacy specialist named
         | Dominique Shelton Leipzig to get her perspective. Globally, she
         | told me, we generate 2.5 quintillion bytes--that's eighteen
         | zeroes--of data per day. "The short answer is, you probably
         | haven't hidden what you think you have," she said. I told her
         | about the rules I'd set for myself, that I didn't have many
         | apps and had bought nothing but prenatal vitamins, and that
         | Instagram did not appear to have identified me as pregnant. She
         | paused. "I'm amazed," she told me. "If you didn't see any ads,
         | I think you might have succeeded." I congratulated myself by
         | instantly dropping the experiment and buying maternity pants;
         | ads for baby carriers popped up on my Instagram within minutes.
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | Also worth noting: it was her second child so she "didn't need
         | to buy anything or search for information". And the experiment
         | was terminated (it appears - it's a bit unclear) after 5
         | months.
         | 
         | Another interesting factoid mentioned:
         | 
         | > identifying a single pregnant woman is as valuable to data
         | brokers as knowing the age, gender, and location of more than
         | two hundred non-pregnant people, because of how much stuff new
         | parents tend to buy
        
           | beerandt wrote:
           | I don't remember the exact list, but it was 4-6 life events
           | that are each potentially worth $100+ per person to
           | marketers, and I think that was in ~1996 dollars.
           | 
           | Iirc:
           | 
           | College graduation/ first real job, Wedding, first home
           | purchase, first kid on the way, retirement filed-for, and ???
           | I'm forgetting something. Maybe out-of-town move?
           | 
           | Related and overlapping: I suggest searching for the late 90s
           | article on Target basically telling a teen that she was
           | pregnant via direct mailers before she even knew. Dad over
           | reacts then has to eat his accusation when they (Target) were
           | right.
           | 
           | Based on non-typical purchase of un-scented lotion and 2-3
           | other undisclosed items.
           | 
           | I'm sure it's only gotten worse since then.
        
             | irrational wrote:
             | Wow, other than retirement, I'm glad I passed all those
             | milestones in the before times.
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | That's the most valuable one! The Soylent Green and
               | reverse mortgage people pay very well for deal flow.
        
         | platelminto wrote:
         | This is very typical of New Yorker pieces - I enjoyed the
         | broader context of capital surveillance. We can't editorialise
         | titles here, so this is bound to happen.
        
       | WirelessGigabit wrote:
       | I know there is the famous Target case where Target sent
       | pregnancy related ads to the living-at-her-parents daughter.
       | That's how the dad found out.
       | 
       | I remember a podcast about this. Maybe Reply All. But I cannot
       | find it anymore.
        
         | forrestthewoods wrote:
         | How Companies Learn Your Secrets (2012)
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits....
        
         | pweezy wrote:
         | I learned about this from the audiobook version of The Power of
         | Habit by Charles Duhigg. Maybe that is what you're thinking of?
        
           | WirelessGigabit wrote:
           | Thank you so much! I owe you a <insert-drink-of-your-choice>!
        
         | brians wrote:
         | It later turned out Target sent some of those ads to all
         | families, blindly--it wasn't causally related to the daughter's
         | pregnancy. Whoops.
         | 
         | But this way makes a better story.
        
           | MrJohz wrote:
           | Do you have a source for that? I've heard that claim before,
           | and I can completely believe it, but I've never seen any real
           | evidence for either side of the story, just a lot of guesses
           | about how the system might have worked.
        
             | mavhc wrote:
             | https://medium.com/@colin.fraser/target-didnt-figure-out-
             | a-t... is the main critical post
        
       | sbierwagen wrote:
       | >Surveillance encompasses both policing and caretaking, Hamacher
       | notes. In practice, its polarized qualities--"beneficial and
       | harmful, intimate and distanced"--intertwine. Baby monitors use
       | technology developed for the military. Many contemporary models
       | run on CCTV.
       | 
       | What does Jia think "CCTV" is, exactly?
        
       | pbj1968 wrote:
       | My demographics have me in a few paid survey groups. They've
       | finally quit putting "prenatal vitamins", "diapers", and "toys"
       | in the middle of "what has your household purchased in the last
       | six months" surveys. I guess they finally figured out it's not
       | happening.
        
       | munchler wrote:
       | I'm a non-Hispanic male in my mid-50's and I occasionally get
       | diaper ads on YouTube, or random ads in Spanish. I'm moderately
       | privacy conscious, but I don't do anything drastic to mask my
       | activity. If the big tech companies are surveilling me so
       | thoroughly, they're not always doing a great job using that info.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | People are very bad at understanding how large scale data
         | collection works: namely, that it's entirely based on the law
         | of large numbers. No one except under very specific
         | circumstances cares who you are specifically, they care that
         | they're right about that somewhat better then 50% of the time.
         | 
         | Accidentally misfiring an ad has no consequences if it doesn't
         | happen in place of a better targeted ad and you don't reliably
         | abandon the platform as a result.
        
           | anyonecancode wrote:
           | This is why the idea you sometimes see floated that we should
           | be able to sell our own personal data isn't really much of a
           | solution. One person's data doesn't have much value on its
           | own. If you were able to sell it, it'd be worth a few cents
           | at most. Your data is only valuable as part of a large data
           | set. I get the appeal of using capitalism to rein it its own
           | excesses, but I really don't see anything short of strong
           | regulation having a shot at regaining and maintaining our
           | privacy.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | I had a pretty long period where all my Google ads were in
         | Spanish and a lot of them implied my demographic profile was
         | set to think I'm a 50+ year old gay Filipino (I am none of
         | those things, as far as I know). It just gets really off target
         | sometimes.
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | As someone in marketing, I'll point out that the technology has
       | advanced quite a bit from the infamous Target case study.
       | 
       | The most powerful signals now are not demographics and search
       | history, but location, transactions and automatic content
       | recognition (ACR).
       | 
       | Transactions is pretty straightforward, your bank and/or payment
       | networks sell your data to brokers at a merchant level. Many
       | retailers sell your data at a SKU level.
       | 
       | Location is less visible. There are various levels of granularity
       | of location tracking and reporting built into many SDKs that are
       | included in just about any mobile app you download, and that data
       | is sold.
       | 
       | Automated content recognition (ACR) is the craziest. The actual
       | contents of your screen- the Instagram post, the TV show you are
       | watching, etc (and its underlying transcript) are analyzed by the
       | app or the TV, and sold often in real time to data brokers with
       | such efficiency that you can be viewing the photo of the new Land
       | Rover your friend just bought and posted, to your very next swipe
       | being an ad for a Land Rover
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Buuuut.... The flip side is that all these mechanisms are
         | unreliable.
         | 
         | They might match your phone up with someone elses laptop and
         | you'll see ads for stuff they searched.
         | 
         | They might get your location wrong by 1000 miles and suddenly
         | all the ads are in French.
         | 
         | You might have clicked no to a cookie banner so now you get to
         | see ads for ED medication despite definitely not having a use
         | for it...
         | 
         | Advertising is all a numbers game, and they just aim to be
         | mostly right most of the time.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | Location and ACR may explain the ads I keep getting. But
         | they're way off (because I'm cautious).
         | 
         | I happen to live in one of country with the highest GDP per
         | capita (higher than the US) and I also spend lots of time in
         | another country, in France, on a very famous place on the
         | french riviera. That'd be the location part.
         | 
         | Then I love fast expensive sports cars. I just can't help it.
         | Own two or three.
         | 
         | So what kind of ads do I get all the time? Ads for very very
         | very rich people. Ads that want to sell me private jets flights
         | or... Directly private jets. Yup: I'm not kidding, I keep
         | getting ads where this _insert many millions here_ private jets
         | are for sale. Porsche cars: all the time.
         | 
         | Needless to say: I don't have anywhere what it'd take to fly
         | private, let alone buy a private jet (even used).
         | 
         | But I find it funny: somehow the ad industry is thinking I'm
         | completely ballin'.
         | 
         | Now of course I make sure to not only click on the ads but also
         | pretend I'm deeply interested: for example I'll make sure to
         | Google _" Is a used Embraer better than a used Gulfstream?"_ :
         | )
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | The ads know that I'm a man in my 60s.
       | 
       | Lots of ED ads, lots of "How to retire" ads, those weird ads with
       | retouched old men with six-pack abs, the stupid intermittent
       | fasting ads, etc.
       | 
       | I do get the occasional run of Spanish-language ads. Not sure
       | why.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-04 23:00 UTC)