[HN Gopher] Are Japanese anime robots isometric or allometric?
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Are Japanese anime robots isometric or allometric?
Author : zdw
Score : 139 points
Date : 2024-05-01 16:21 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jgeekstudies.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (jgeekstudies.org)
| cicloid wrote:
| *Excluding Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
| omoikane wrote:
| Related research: "Is the Great Attractor a Tengen Toppa Gurren
| Lagann?"
|
| https://jgeekstudies.org/2016/05/19/great-attractor-ttgl/
| tetris11 wrote:
| > the act of throwing a single punch would take a few million
| years. It would take a few million years more for the pilot
| of this robot to find whether the punch hit the target or
| not. It would be a long fight. These practical questions will
| henceforth be disregarded here
|
| Brilliant
| kibwen wrote:
| It's possible that that scale image of robot size comparisons
| might actually depict Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, in the same
| sense that a photo taken by an electron microscope depicts our
| solar system.
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| Kept looking for GL's outlier dot in the super robot section,
| then figured the just left it out so as to not bastardize the
| results.
|
| For anyone OOTL, the show features robots at an intergalactic
| scale, such that the crew needs to invent FTL communications
| and travel just to communicate and move within the ship proper.
| stoperaticless wrote:
| Searching for GL anime I get "girl love", ehich seems
| unrelated to space or robots.
|
| Could you provide the full name of the show?
| Twisol wrote:
| "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann", from upthread; the GL is for
| "Gurren Lagann", which is how it's usually known.
| harry_ord wrote:
| And gave us the infantitly large scope dog in games
| falsaberN1 wrote:
| Or Boss Borot vs Anti-Spiral.
| Hamuko wrote:
| The Gurren Lagann is only 12 metres in height though. Lagann
| is around the same height as Simon and Gurren is about nine
| metres on top (technically below) of that.
| Filligree wrote:
| It gets bigger.
| RhysU wrote:
| Evangelion has robots...?
| tsujamin wrote:
| Having just finished watching evangelion rebuild today: it is
| definitely a robot anime
| xeonmc wrote:
| attack on titan is also a mecha anime
| lain-dono wrote:
| definitely not.
|
| Titans are closer to summoned creatures. And they're not
| the product of technology.
|
| Otherwise, a fight between two pregnant women could be seen
| as a mech fight.
| YurgenJurgensen wrote:
| Shingeki no Kyojin is 100% a mecha anime. If you play Fur
| Elise on an electric guitar it doesn't automatically
| become Rock'n'Roll, and making the giant robots out of
| meat does not change the fact trust SnK is full of mecha
| tropes, is structured like a mecha anime, and the
| characters treat the titans like vehicles.
| bmacho wrote:
| Definitely yes. It has nothing to do with summoned
| creatures, even remotely.
|
| > Otherwise, a fight between two pregnant women could be
| seen as a mech fight.
|
| No. You are missing the fact that in AoT the pilots pilot
| the mechas, and not just be there doing whatever embryos
| do.
| tipsydoo wrote:
| >Otherwise, a fight between two pregnant women could be
| seen as a mech fight.
|
| I mean, when you consider what pregnancy does to an
| expectant mother, hormonally, and the lengths to which
| some will go to protect their unborn child... It's not an
| entirely implausible characterization.
|
| But speaking to AOT, specifically, it's real robot with
| some super robot/fantasy/Abrahamic text characteristics
| to allow for the setting. Despite the "summoning" aspect,
| practical considerations of when and how to employ
| titans, the political, social, and philosophical
| ramifications of their existence and use, and the fact
| that the story is ultimately a study of characters caught
| up in war and history and intrigue, all point to a solid
| mecha, real robot classification.
| falsaberN1 wrote:
| My favorite mecha film is Ratatouille.
| StefanBatory wrote:
| It is very wholesome anime about mecha fights, right? :)
| HeckFeck wrote:
| Yep, that's all we mean when we say 'human
| instrumentality'. The robot is the ultimate human
| instrument.
|
| t. Gendo and Seele
| consumer451 wrote:
| Thanks for mentioning this, I didn't know that it existed. I
| just started watching.
|
| Any other new dubbed mecha anime recommendations would be
| highly appreciated. Ideally, less child-focused.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| In the lore they're creatures with armor, but the aesthetics
| and presentation are entirely within "giant mech" tropes.
| falsaberN1 wrote:
| And then the production models show up.
| s-lambert wrote:
| Jet Alone is a pure robot.
| drooopy wrote:
| That's what I always thought. JA was the only actual robot in
| the series. Everything else that is human made is a cyborg.
| userbinator wrote:
| _Then, what is the heaviest movable machine of human
| civilization? The answer is aircraft carriers. The U. S. Navy
| Nimitz class aircraft carrier is one of the largest ships, and
| each ship is about 325 m long and 99,000 t heavy._
|
| Looks like some ships are a few times heavier than that:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_machines#Sea_v...
| dexen wrote:
| Surprisingly the difference isn't quite as it seems.
|
| There's an important distinction between mass of the vessel's
| own structure, the bare necessities like fuel, stores & crew,
| and its payload. Naval engineering and insurance talks several
| interrelated measures, for our purposes "light load
| displacement" is the closest to the weight of the bare
| structure, while "full load displacement" includes all typical
| stores, fuel, crew, and payload. Conversely the linked measures
| "gross weight tonnage" is measure of _volume_ rather than mass,
| and less relevant for this discussion.
|
| For combat vessels like USS Gerald Ford, most of the weight is
| in the structure itself, and while we don't have exact measures
| for the carrier, it's about 100,000 tonnes. For reference, an
| older generation but comparable carrier USS Nimitz has
| structure of 78280 tons ("light load displacement"), and all up
| weight 101196 tons ("full load displacement").
|
| However for transport vessels like the linked Seawise Giant,
| the structure is small part of all up weight. While the ship
| plus cargo can go up to 646,642 long tons ("full load
| displacement"), the structure itself is much lighter: 81,879
| long tons ("light load displacement").
|
| Also the linked cruise ship, Icon of the Seas, has impressively
| high "gross weight tonnage" but again that's measure of volume.
| The displacement is a bit hard to find, people quote variously
| 100,000t or 120,000t without being specific light load or full
| load. So while the cruise ship is much larger by volume than
| the military vessel, the weight of the structure is closely
| comparable. The later is much more densely packed - keeping
| size down is a necessity for any combat craft, even the largest
| ones.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| I have nothing to add this was just so fascinating to read.
| Thanks for that!
| abduhl wrote:
| In case anyone was wondering:
|
| Long ton = 2240 lb (1016 kg)
|
| Short ton = 2000 lb (907 kg)
|
| Tonne = 2205 lb (1000 kg)
|
| Long tons are rarely used outside shipping. Short tons are
| what people mean when they say ton in America. Tonne is the
| metric ton and is what most of the rest of the world means
| when you hear something that sounds like ton.
| Animats wrote:
| Mecha seem to have disappeared from Japanese anime. Here's the
| anime list for Spring 2024.[1]
|
| [1] https://anichart.net/Spring-2024
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| We got Gundam Witch last year :)
| Dalewyn wrote:
| And Gundam SEED Freedom this January.
| creamyhorror wrote:
| Mecha was a 1960s-1980s war-inspired fascination that maybe, if
| anything, we should be surprised at the longevity of. We
| haven't really been getting that many giant robots or pilotable
| mechs in popular media outside of Japanese animation.
| Aerroon wrote:
| Mecha is never going to disappear. Mecha are great for toy
| sales.
| harry_ord wrote:
| I always felt like the big explosion was the 80s, not to say
| the 70s was unremarkable and the 90s just had a lot of really
| good stuff like turn A, Eva (I dislike it) and King of braves
| GGG
| isaacfung wrote:
| There is an upcoming Mech movie Atlas, starring Jennifer
| Lopez with a heavy Titanfall vibe.
| nullstyle wrote:
| Patlabor wasn't war-inspired; you might enjoy it's contrast
| to gundam-type mecha stories. The Labors represent the rise
| of technological power that can be employed by a single
| person and all the effects that can have.
| axx8 wrote:
| Yep. The last mainstream mecha anime were Darling in the FranXX
| (2018)[1] and 86 (2021)[2]. Anime like Gundam are much more
| niche if you compare the amount of MAL users.
|
| [1]https://myanimelist.net/anime/35849/Darling_in_the_FranXX
|
| [2]https://myanimelist.net/anime/41457/86
| Hamuko wrote:
| Gundam, the niche that does 100 billion yen in revenue per
| year.
| throwaway11460 wrote:
| The toys are appealing even to children that never saw the
| anime.
|
| Actually I wouldn't let my kids watch it until they were at
| least 13 or so, maybe more depending on the child. A lot of
| war and mass-scale death there, and frankly, a lot of
| adoration for fascism - the space nazis turn out to be
| right.
| tipsydoo wrote:
| Wing (and, by extension, 00) was a fine watch at 10, and
| G probably would have been, too. They're considerably
| less fraught in both iconography and philosophy than some
| of the other series, and quite a bit more hammy. The
| Build Fighters/Divers series are great, too. Stay far
| away from AGE, though; cutesy stylings because it was
| intended to exist alongside series like Yokai Watch, but
| it ended up being quite problematic.
| tetris11 wrote:
| Anime and Fascism really do seem to walk hand-in-hand a
| lot.
|
| Even my beloved Frieren has an unnatural dehumanistic
| streak against Demons who exhibit intelligence and
| personalities, which she explains away as mere mimicry,
| despite the fact that she has learned magic from them.
|
| I guess I know which side of the AI debate she rests on.
| Tarq0n wrote:
| Attack on Titan is for all intents and purposes a mecha, and
| one of the most mainstream anime of recent memory.
| tetris11 wrote:
| It has mecha elements, as well as steampunk and magic
| elements too.
|
| Other than their kits, everything else they operate is very
| standard WW1-esque tech.
| tipsydoo wrote:
| Mecha fandom doesn't necessarily cross over with anime fandom
| (even though the former is arguably the origin of the
| latter). I find that there's more crossover with hobbyists
| (plastic models), military fandom, and gamers. Gundam is
| almost it's own thing (to Sunrise's simultaneous satisfaction
| and chagrin), and the Site Which Shall Not Be Named split a
| Mecha board off of the Anime board almost 2 decades ago. I
| don't know that the fandom will be represented on MAL, which
| is itself a niche service for the wider anime-watching
| community.
|
| Suffice it to say, the multiple life-scale Gundam statues
| that have been put up/dismantled over the past few years
| speak to its enduring popularity. I will say that there
| haven't been as many non-Gundam mecha anime as there were in
| the 2010s. We did get G-Witch and Bravern last year, and
| Hathaway on Netflix in 2021. And, as someone said, AOT is
| essentially Meat Gundam.
|
| EDIT: Also, I don't know that I'd even call 86 mainstream. It
| felt like it actually got way less recognition than it should
| have.
| tetris11 wrote:
| I thought EightySix was pretty good (2021-3)
| Hamuko wrote:
| Last season had Yuki Bakuhatsu Bang Bravern, SYNDUALITY and
| Gundam SEED FREEDOM, this season has Shinkalion and next season
| has Grendizer U. "Disappeared" seems like a strong word.
| falsaberN1 wrote:
| I watched Shinkalion purely out of desperation and was
| pleasantly surprised despite being a show for kids and having
| "terrible graphics".
|
| And yeah there's not much mainstream, but you always get some
| Mazinger spinoff, some Gundam and other "minor" stuff. The
| genre is definitely not popular but it's alive.
|
| Super Robot Taisen is also still ongoing, and while it's not
| a show (although it's been adapted a few times) it's a good
| way to find stuff that might have escaped your radar. And the
| originals can help quench the thirst for new cool robots with
| flashy moves. Lately they have been adding "never animated"
| stuff like Mazinger ZERO, GaoGaiGar Vs. Betterman and Getter
| Devolution which is nice too.
| YurgenJurgensen wrote:
| While I'd like to blame the metastasization of the narou-kei LN
| adaptation, I think the real reason is the same as why Sci Fi
| has largely disappeared from visual media in general outside of
| hangers on from legacy franchises. People have stopped
| believing in the future.
| hamilyon2 wrote:
| I thought the word "mecha" is used to describe devices which are
| operated by humans, like a Gundam. Essentially mecha is
| anthropomorphic tank.
|
| "Robot" is used to describe autonomous system, like Marvin or
| Laputian Robot Troopers
| YurgenJurgensen wrote:
| "meka" refers to any mechanical design. The artists who do
| "mecha" design in anime will do everything from guns to boats.
| The English term's meaning changed when it was re-borrowed.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| > The English term's meaning changed when it was re-borrowed.
|
| Like the meaning of the term "anime" changed?
| Uvix wrote:
| Depends on which borrowing you're referring to. Japanese
| uses it like the original French to refer to anything
| animated, then it was changed when English borrowed it from
| Japanese to refer specifically to Japanese animation.
| numpad0 wrote:
| The point is "mech/mecha" as in "biped humanoid machines"
| is en-US specific. In ja-JP and probably few others it's
| "robots". "Anime" is more widely understood.
| hnbad wrote:
| But then OP is correct: mecha/mech refers to humanoid
| bipeds. The Japanese word is not mecha but meka (meka in
| romaji).
|
| EDIT: I'm being pedantic. When used in English, "mecha"
| or "mech" is an English word and the semantics associated
| with similar words in other languages don't really
| matter. Where it gets confusing is that it's used in the
| context of discussing Japanese media (and its foreign
| derivatives) in English. The reason I'm being pedantic is
| that my native language is German and not only have
| German loanwords in English often mutated in ways that
| trip up German native speakers (e.g. wanderlust is better
| translated as Fernweh, whereas Wanderlust is more about
| hiking and being in nature) but the same is true in the
| inverse, i.e. a lot of English loan words in German have
| different or narrower meanings than in English (e.g. a
| Burger is not a type of Sandwich as that specifically
| refers to a sandwich using white bread and a Hot Dog
| always includes the bread and topping/sauces whereas the
| hot dog is just a Wurst and ground beef is never referred
| to as sausage or burger).
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| Fun fact is that in Russian the word "mekh" (reads like "mech"
| or "meh") means "fur". I was thoroughly confused by mighty
| furry warriors when I found the "Star Guard" book on the shelf
| around the age of nine.
| jghn wrote:
| Related to this is something that's always bugged me. Playing
| games like Battletech, at some point the fandom (largely those
| who came in from the video games) started talking in terms of
| enjoying playing with "big, stompy robots".
|
| But they're .... not robots? It's more like "big, stompy
| powered armor"
| lloeki wrote:
| Arguably, while of alien making, the Macross flying fortress fits
| the "real robot" definition and seems to be miscategorised. By
| and large it's no different than your regular Imperial Star
| Destroyer except that it can transform to a humanoid form.
| Aeolun wrote:
| > In contrast, Macross is very unrealistic because Macross is
| equal to a pile of 182 Nimitz class aircraft carriers in terms of
| mass.
|
| Is it? It's also 5 times longer (and presumably wider) than the
| Nimitz aircraft carrier. That would mean that Macross is only
| about 5-6x denser than the Nimitz aircraft carrier, which isn't
| entirely out of the realm of reason for a futuristic space
| battleship. If nothing else, having several tens of meters of
| dense matter between the innards and the outside where high
| energy photons are flying around sounds like a great idea.
|
| It was also originally meant to house creatures much larger than
| humans, which correspondent mass, so the structure of the ship
| would reflect that.
| mng2 wrote:
| They do mention the origin story of Macross a few paragraphs up
| so it seems like an odd criticism. On the other hand, it's kind
| of neat to see that alien technology is an outlier according to
| their analysis.
| playingalong wrote:
| Interesting choice of unit of reference. Admiral Chester Nimitz
| (who gave the name to USS Nimitz) was the one to sign the
| Japanese surrender in WW2.
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