[HN Gopher] Lowercase - A simple way to take and share notes
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lowercase - A simple way to take and share notes
        
       Author : siegers
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2024-05-03 14:39 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.lowercase.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.lowercase.app)
        
       | mattstrayer wrote:
       | co-founder here: feel free to ask any questions!
        
         | voidUpdate wrote:
         | What are the advantages of this over, say, Obsidian?
        
           | mattstrayer wrote:
           | Lowercase really shines when you want to take notes free-form
           | and then be able to share those notes out into the world. You
           | can easily make a note public & even cooler than that you can
           | turn a lowercase note into a presentation with just a few
           | clicks.
           | 
           | Here's an old example I pulled up -> https://www.lowercase.ap
           | p/@matt/p/1f6c83d5-2869-4024-a687-fc...
           | 
           | In my editor I was able to just group parts of my note into
           | logical slide sections and then publish.
           | 
           | Edit: you can move through the slide show with your left and
           | right arrows.
        
         | yellow_postit wrote:
         | Can I export or host the data myself?
         | 
         | For work sensitive notes I can't/won't use an untrusted sync
         | mechanism.
        
           | mattstrayer wrote:
           | Totally a fair use-case and request!
           | 
           | Right now we don't have support for a local storage mechanism
           | or self-hosting. We are extremely keen on privacy and are
           | very open to working towards either of those two options.
        
           | detritus wrote:
           | Yeah, I couldn't imagine hosting my Most Important Notes on a
           | freebie service whose provenance I don't entirely know.
           | 
           | Notes are self host for me.
        
         | Hendrikto wrote:
         | Who is the target audience?
        
           | siegers wrote:
           | Folks with technical experience but not necessarily web devs.
           | When you want more out of Google Docs, Notes, etc. but don't
           | want to invest the time in building it yourself. Or, that's
           | not your skillset.
           | 
           | - Syntax highlighting - "one off" Public pages - Slide
           | presentations - embedding task lists with dates
           | 
           | Also, was a pandemic project...so ppl were just using tech
           | and sharing in different ways than they had been.
        
         | msravi wrote:
         | Two questions:
         | 
         | 1. Doesn't seem like there's support for latex-style math? (Or,
         | at least couldn't find it in the documentation and putting an
         | equation between $$ doesn't seem to work). Is this planned?
         | 
         | 2. Is there a way to export your notes?
        
           | siegers wrote:
           | other co-founder here:
           | 
           | 1. Currently there isn't support, but not opposed if there is
           | a need. 2. Also, there isn't a way to export (or self host)
           | as of now.
           | 
           | Just some background - We originally built this out as a
           | standalone desktop app (~4 years ago) and then re-worked it
           | for the web around the same time. We were planning to
           | eventually rewrite the desktop app for just that reason - to
           | have the offline syncing and cleaner export UX.
        
         | aae42 wrote:
         | whenever i see a free to use cloud service like this i think
         | either 1:
         | 
         | - they won't be able to afford to run it much longer and it'll
         | shut down with apologies about being a hobby project that got
         | out of hand
         | 
         | or
         | 
         | - they start charging more for it than i'd like to spend once i
         | become reliant on it
         | 
         | don't see any links to any source code... so doesn't seem to be
         | something i can host myself... i typically try to avoid
         | investing in services that i don't have some kind of guarantee
         | with either way (that i'm paying to keep it running, or that i
         | can fork it or host it myself when the hobbyist gets bored)
         | 
         | why should i invest the time in using your product?
        
         | rsiqueira wrote:
         | REQUEST: Please add an option for a monospace/code font. I see
         | that <pre><code>...</code></pre> works very well (good
         | monospace block style), but I have to inspect and edit the
         | source.
         | 
         | With this, we could be able to use it for code!
         | 
         | THANKS!
        
       | calyhre wrote:
       | Nice product! I might have missed mentions of it, but is it real-
       | time editing? Does it supports multi users?
       | 
       | A warning that might spoil a bit your adventure on the long run:
       | Your published pages will be exploited somehow. SEO backlink
       | abuse, phishing, etc. Offering free public hosting is what people
       | with ill intent are looking for, and you can be sure that at some
       | point they'll look at your solution
        
         | mattstrayer wrote:
         | Thank you!
         | 
         | It is real-time editing! We leverage web-sockets to sync across
         | multiple logged-in sessions. But as of today it does not
         | support multiple users collaborating on the same document.
        
         | siegers wrote:
         | (co-founder here)
         | 
         | Thank you! It is realtime across devices/instances for the
         | active user. Currently it doesn't support collaborative editing
         | _but_ it 's always been on the back of our minds if there is
         | enough interest. Aside from just doc syncing for multi-users,
         | we'd need to make some changes in the doc
         | structure/presentation to provide a clean UX around that
         | (without making the UI to complex). That said, it's not off of
         | the table :)
         | 
         | re: public pages. Thank you and definitely top of mind for us
         | to monitor.
        
       | NayamAmarshe wrote:
       | Amazing work! Thank you for sharing here.
       | 
       | A while ago, I made something exactly like this called writedown:
       | https://writedown.app
       | 
       | It is a free and open source, simple and easy to use Notion
       | alternative.
       | 
       | I had to leave it midway (it's ready to use and stable though)
       | because my other projects needed attention but I'll get back to
       | it someday :)
        
         | siegers wrote:
         | Thank you! And cool app too! We had a similar experience in
         | that we built the majority of this ~4 years ago. And it's been
         | stable since.
        
       | lovegrenoble wrote:
       | Sooo expensive, thank you sooo much!
        
         | Linell wrote:
         | This comment is a little confusing unless you click through --
         | the pricing page says that it's free to use with no strings
         | attached.
         | 
         | https://www.lowercase.app/pricing/
        
       | fori1to10 wrote:
       | Why would I use this, instead of Obsidian (say)?
        
         | balder1991 wrote:
         | For once, Obsidian publish is quite expensive.
        
           | diegof79 wrote:
           | Obsidian publishing costs USD 8 per month. A Starbucks latte
           | in SF costs USD 5.88.
           | 
           | I don't use Obsidian Publish, and I don't need it. I use the
           | Obsidian app for free, and I don't need the Sync feature as
           | it works fine with iCloud.
           | 
           | If at some point I need the publish feature, I consider the
           | price that is less than two lattes per month a good deal
           | given the zero cost of the app that I used for a long time.
        
             | karmajunkie wrote:
             | that's certainly a valid reasoning. someone else may well
             | have an equally valid reason for choosing a different path.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | It isn't your only option:
           | 
           | https://github.com/oleeskild/obsidian-digital-garden
           | 
           | https://github.com/jackyzha0/quartz
           | 
           | https://github.com/jonstodle/obsius-obsidian-plugin
           | 
           | https://github.com/yoursamlan/pubsidian
           | 
           | https://github.com/ppeetteerrs/obsidian-zola
        
         | FalconSensei wrote:
         | Obsidian Sync costs money to sync your files between devices.
         | Obsidian Publish also costs money on top of that to publish
         | your notes.
        
           | perplexa wrote:
           | Obsidian has a community plugin called "Remotely Save" that
           | lets you sync your vault via Webdav, S3 (compatible),
           | Dropbox, or OneDrive. It works on all my devices and
           | synchronises my data just fine. You could also use something
           | like Syncthing or any other third party solution that syncs
           | your Yaml directories.
        
           | kepano wrote:
           | Obsidian runs on local Markdown files so there are many free
           | options you can use for syncing and publishing notes.
        
           | teamspirit wrote:
           | I've been using icloud to store my vault and have found it to
           | be great to sync with laptop, phone, and tablet (obviously
           | they're Apple devices as iCloud isn't supported on anything
           | else).
           | 
           | It's been really solid. When I used an android phone I had a
           | lot more difficulty. While syncthing is reliable on android
           | and macbook, iphone and ipad don't work nearly as well.
        
             | adfm wrote:
             | There's iCloud for Windows. https://support.apple.com/en-
             | us/103232
        
       | siegers wrote:
       | co-founder here: Just a little context on the "why" from the site
       | -
       | 
       | > We created lowercase as a side project to make it easier for
       | folks to quickly share content without the pressure of having the
       | perfect blog post. Sometimes you just want to share thoughts
       | without worrying about styling and hosting. Ideas aren't always
       | structured. And sometimes simple and easy is what you need.
       | 
       | > A note-taking app that is simple, fun to use, snappy, and easy
       | on the eyes. There is no one perfect note-taking tool. Everyone
       | has their preferences. But we feel that we've landed on something
       | nice.
       | 
       | > We built lowercase in our spare time as a passion project. No
       | funding.
       | 
       | > We decided from the very beginning that we'd never collect or
       | share any user data. We don't even use website analytics. The
       | intent of lowercase is to stay lean and serve a purpose - make it
       | easier to share thoughts in sometimes ever-evolving documents.
        
         | bjourne wrote:
         | > We decided from the very beginning that we'd never collect or
         | share any user data.
         | 
         | Then why not use OAuth?
        
           | siegers wrote:
           | Wasn't necessary since we weren't intending to share
           | information with another service and felt that the 3rd party
           | requirement could be limiting.
        
             | johnnyfived wrote:
             | This answer doesn't make sense to me. If anything oauth far
             | better proves you won't be sharing information with other
             | services (you're not collecting logins and accounts). It's
             | more limiting to ask users to sign up to the app.
        
               | siegers wrote:
               | Meaning that we'd be limiting users that don't use the
               | provider(s) that we'd support. At that time, we felt that
               | username/password was the lowest friction at the time.
               | We're happy to re-eval if needed though!
        
               | beretguy wrote:
               | Please leave username-password authentication. I never
               | use oauth and absolutely hate it.
        
               | nunodonato wrote:
               | exactly, I also hate websites that rely on oauth alone.
        
             | bjourne wrote:
             | Then use both regular sign-up and OAuth? People that just
             | want to try the service don't have patience for email
             | verification.
        
         | tbeseda wrote:
         | FYI, I can't delete my account:
         | 
         | Request URL: https://www.lowercase.app/api/accounts/tbeseda/
         | 
         | Request Method: DELETE
         | 
         | Status Code: 404 Not Found
        
           | siegers wrote:
           | (co-founder) Sry about that - if you want to email
           | lowercasehq@gmail.com I can remove and confirm for you.
        
             | tbeseda wrote:
             | Not a huge deal! I just wanted to let you know the API is
             | broken/missing. I'm pretty settled on my note-taking set up
             | for now, so I didn't plan to keep the account.
        
       | iseeyouseewesee wrote:
       | some feedback:
       | 
       | as a first time visitor, the pricing page is really confusing. if
       | its free why is there a stripe faq immediately below? i am still
       | confused whether this product is free or paid without signing up.
       | the pricing page requires some rework imo
        
         | the_svd_doctor wrote:
         | https://www.lowercase.app/pricing/ looks pretty clear to me.
         | You can optionally subscribe to support the project, but
         | otherwise it's free.
        
         | willio58 wrote:
         | I think having pricing linked like that is an immediate turn-
         | off to potential users. Personally the second I see a pricing
         | link in a nav bar I assume, without even clicking, that it's a
         | paid service. Renaming the link to "Donate", or something
         | similar might make more sense.
        
       | riffic wrote:
       | I'm pretty deep into Obsidian-space right now but I'm loving all
       | these newfangled knowledge apps that push things a heck of a lot
       | further than we had previously with bloat like evernote et al.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | "If you want publish them" should probably be "If you want to
       | publish them"
        
         | mattstrayer wrote:
         | thank you!
        
       | not_your_vase wrote:
       | Low-key I have been looking for something like Obsidian-but-
       | freeish to try since a while - I think this is exactly what I
       | searched for. Going to give it a go during the weekend
       | definitely.
       | 
       | On a different note, what's the long term sustainability plan?
       | Relying on donations rarely works... I guess it's not very
       | expensive to host text, but still, its cost is not 0. "Unlimited
       | free forever" is either not free, doesn't last forever, or not
       | unlimited. (Usually the 2nd one)
       | 
       | Also, do you do any (automatic) content filtering? It is very
       | easy to abuse pastebin services
        
         | siegers wrote:
         | (co-founder)
         | 
         | Thanks for the comment and very valid points. When we initially
         | started building we had subscription plans and more of a
         | general revenue model. Over time we transitioned to the
         | donation-based approach. We are open to revisiting the former
         | if there is interest (and feedback) in the existing
         | functionality or newer updates. I definitely understand the
         | concern of "free forever" and open to input.
        
           | maicro wrote:
           | Need to look at the site more in general to see if it's for
           | me, but just a note - https://www.lowercase.app/pricing/
           | still references the subscription model.
        
         | digging wrote:
         | > Low-key I have been looking for something like Obsidian-but-
         | freeish to try since a while
         | 
         | Have you tried LogSeq? I think there are a couple other FOSS
         | similar notes apps
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | There's also a Visual Studio Code extension ecosystem worth
           | exploring that do similar functions (Dendron, Foam, etc)
        
           | jamesgeck0 wrote:
           | Silverbullet.md is another pretty good one which allows a lot
           | of customization. I was able to recreate my (admittedly very
           | basic) Obsidian workflow fairly quickly.
        
         | greymalik wrote:
         | > something like Obsidian-but-freeish
         | 
         | I'm confused. Obsidian itself is free. You can choose to pay
         | for their sync service if you need it, but there are
         | alternatives for that that don't cost extra.
        
           | zubairshaik wrote:
           | I'm guessing free as in speech, not free as in beer. Obsidian
           | is not open source [0]
           | 
           | [0] https://obsidian.rocks/why-isnt-obsidian-open-source/
        
           | throw383724 wrote:
           | Obsidian is only free for personal use.
           | 
           | If you take notes for work or for a side project that makes
           | money you have to pay.
           | 
           | I don't mind paying because it's worth it.
        
           | DrBenCarson wrote:
           | You can't use Obsidian for anything that makes money without
           | buying an Enterprise license
        
             | jjbickerstaffe wrote:
             | When I last looked it was free for businesses of 1 person,
             | no Enterprise licence required. But you would still have to
             | pay for sync if needed.
        
       | igtztorrero wrote:
       | Dark mode please
        
       | thetomcraig wrote:
       | Nit Pick feedback: it should read: "the right _number_ of
       | features", not "_amount_ of features". Other than that, love the
       | look of the site :)
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | Non native speaker here, can you detail why the later is
         | incorrect?
        
           | cole-k wrote:
           | I'm guessing that "amount" is not quantized ("number" is).
           | Let me be absolutely clear that most native speakers will not
           | notice the distinction (even pedants like me missed this
           | one).
           | 
           | You'll also see people being pedantic about "less" versus
           | "fewer," e.g. complaining about the "12 items or less" line
           | being improper usage since items are quantized and therefore
           | it should be "12 items or fewer."
        
           | Alex63 wrote:
           | It's probably mostly idiomatic. For native English-speakers
           | it is more natural to use "number" when talking about things
           | that are counted units that would be represented by integers
           | (like marbles, or children, or features). "Amount" would be
           | more appropriate when talking about something that you
           | measure and represent with a floating point number (like
           | butter, or gasoline/petrol, or risk). But an English-speaker
           | will understand what you mean if you say "amount of features"
           | instead of "number of features."
           | 
           | And since we're being picky, it should be "the latter is
           | correct", not "the later is correct."
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | "Number" is correct when referring to countable items (like
           | "features"), while "amount" is correct for non-countable
           | things (like "water" or "time").
        
           | whiddershins wrote:
           | Sorry, sibling responses still aren't quite answering this
           | correctly.
           | 
           | Number is for countable distinct things, and amount is for a
           | quantity of a single thing. (Often a substance)
           | 
           | So a number of sticks, a number of socks, a number of people.
           | A number of eggs.
           | 
           | An amount of flour, sugar, water, money, time.
           | 
           | A number of minutes equals an amount of time.
        
             | jaktet wrote:
             | > A number of minutes equals an amount of time
             | 
             | This is short and succinct and sums it up pretty well
        
         | quartesixte wrote:
         | Counterpoint:
         | 
         | I know grammatically it isn't the most correct, but I don't see
         | anything non-idiomatic about "amount of features".
         | 
         | Reason: "Just the right amount" is a set, idiomatic expression.
         | "Just the right amount of ___" is just extending the
         | expression. IMO extending idiomatic expressions exempts it from
         | a lot of the formal word-pairing conventions in English.
         | 
         | But I'm no linguist.
        
           | crashmat wrote:
           | I think amount of is usually used for 'continuous' (I'm not
           | sure on the word) substances like flour, water, or salt,
           | rather than multiples of discreet objects.
        
             | quartesixte wrote:
             | I can also have:
             | 
             | Just the right amount of cats Just the right amount of
             | internet points Just the right amount of chutzpah
        
           | akaij wrote:
           | Depending on the flavour of the linguist, they could say "as
           | long as the correct meaning is conveyed, go wild" :)
        
       | pkulak wrote:
       | I went through a bunch of note-taking apps before I settled on a
       | git directory that's auto-synced once an hour. This bash script
       | is all it takes.                     cd ~/notes                if
       | [[ ''$(git status --porcelain) ]]; then            git stash save
       | git pull --rebase            git stash pop || true            git
       | add .            git -c "user.name=Phil Kulak" -c
       | "user.email=nope@kulak.us" commit -m "''$(date)"            git
       | push origin main           else            git pull           fi
        
         | mattstrayer wrote:
         | honestly love the simplicity of this
        
         | dvt wrote:
         | Ah yes, the classic HN Dropbox response :) On a more serious
         | note, I'm not into note-taking apps as much as your average
         | HN'er, but there's probably a business here. If anything,
         | Obsidian has at least been wildly successful these past few
         | years (my dad loves it).
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | And sensible merge conflict resolution vs normal cloud saves.
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | Yeah, every year or so I get a merge conflict, and then the
           | whole things stops syncing and it takes me a week to notice
           | before I go in and resolve it. It's not perfect, but I can't
           | be assed to fix something that happens once a year. :/
        
             | darknavi wrote:
             | Maybe you can beep the motherboard if it happens. Would
             | only take a few hours to notice then :)
        
         | mike_ivanov wrote:
         | I'm doing the same with ZimWiki, except for running the sync
         | script as a custom tool in the UI.
        
         | bartvk wrote:
         | What about mobile? Or don't you take notes there?
        
           | escapecharacter wrote:
           | For me, this is always the gap that feels missing. - I want
           | to take and view notes on various devices: mobile, personal
           | computer, work computer, randomly logged in ad-hoc machine. -
           | I want notes to not require me to be online all the time
           | while writing (I work a lot on plans, or in remote locations
           | without reliable internet) - I want notes to make reasonable
           | assumptions about syncing, biasing on the side of avoiding
           | data loss over the appearance of magically "just working" - I
           | want to be able to search across all notes at the same time
           | as any device's file system.
           | 
           | Simplenote used to solve this. Then, recently, they started
           | to become less reliable at the same time as having a very
           | large subscription price increase. Apple Notes is now okay,
           | but awkward to log in or sync with a non-Apple device. I
           | tried having a bunch of .txt files synced via Dropbox, but
           | while the Dropbox mobile app will let you view offline files,
           | it won't let you edit them unless online.
        
             | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
             | is iCloud.com really that bad?
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | I set up PolyGit on my phone. So I can take new notes by
           | pulling, editing, and the pushing. It's a pain, not gonna
           | lie. But I don't take notes away from any of my computers
           | that often. Mostly I'm in a work meeting, reading an email,
           | something like that, so it doesn't come up too often.
           | 
           | All it would take to be awesome would be to find a mobile git
           | app that required fewer button presses, so I'm hopeful.
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | Why the two single quotes before the subshells?
        
           | pkulak wrote:
           | Oh, that's my bad. I copied this from my Nix config and
           | that's how you escape.
           | 
           | https://git.sr.ht/~pkulak/nix/tree/main/item/home/default.ni.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://git.sr.ht/~pkulak/nix/tree/main/item/home/default.ni.
           | ..
        
         | laurels-marts wrote:
         | But what do you use to actually take the notes? After trying a
         | bunch of apps I settled on VS Code with a custom Profile that
         | has all the settings, extensions and UI states that I need for
         | taking markdown notes.
         | 
         | I realised that I already spend at minimum 8-10 hours a day in
         | VS Code, why learn another app with all the different quirks,
         | UI and key bindings...
        
         | enasterosophes wrote:
         | To this, it works well to add inotifywait to detect when files
         | are saved. You can pipe the save detections to a loop that git-
         | commits only that one file, providing a more granular history
         | with very little cost.
        
       | osigurdson wrote:
       | It would be nice to have a zero trust model for something like
       | this.
        
       | neilellis wrote:
       | Congratulations, looks like a cool app, I'm hoping I'll
       | eventually catch up with being feature rich like yours. I've only
       | just started, being hacking on it for a month now but am looking
       | to do something pretty similar. I think we've had a few ideas the
       | same - and amrescratching the same itch. Your 4 years ahead
       | though :-) :-) https://edit-this.page/help is my humble work in
       | progress.
       | 
       | Best of luck to you all!
        
       | KolyaKornelius wrote:
       | What is the user exit strategy? Can I export all notes? In which
       | formats?
        
         | mattstrayer wrote:
         | no export is available at the moment, but we are considering
         | adding that in. What formats would you want to be able to
         | export to?
        
       | gitinit wrote:
       | This seems amazing, except for the fact that it's not open source
       | and can't be self-hosted.
       | 
       | That, to me at least, is the most important part of a note-taking
       | app.
        
         | siegers wrote:
         | This is something that we've discussed quite a bit and not
         | completely off the table.
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-03 23:00 UTC)