[HN Gopher] A blue mineral that grows on buried bodies and confu...
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       A blue mineral that grows on buried bodies and confuses
       archaeologists (2016)
        
       Author : mmastrac
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2024-05-02 02:35 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | gilleain wrote:
       | So 'vivianite', or hydrated iron (II) phosphate -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivianite - which apparently
       | undergoes 'internal oxidation' interestingly.
        
         | somedude895 wrote:
         | Funny, I figured the name would be derived from the Latin word
         | for "life", but it's named after a person with the last name
         | Vivian (which itself has roots in said Latin word).
        
           | 1-more wrote:
           | https://notes.rolandcrosby.com/posts/unexpectedly-eponymous/
        
         | msrenee wrote:
         | It's a pretty cool mineral. I've got a chunk (not from a grave)
         | that's such a dark green it looks black until you shine a light
         | through it.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | Finally, I came to the comments so I didn't have to read the
         | article and all the comments are just about tracking cookies.
        
       | mkl wrote:
       | Neat, but I wouldn't call that "vivid".
        
         | gilleain wrote:
         | I suspect it's a pun on the mineral name ...
         | 
         | (Incorrectly, I assumed that the name related to 'vital' - as
         | in 'living' - but apparently not :
         | 
         | "It was named by Abraham Gottlob Werner in 1817, the year of
         | his death, after either John Henry Vivian (1785-1855), a Welsh-
         | Cornish politician, mine owner and mineralogist living in
         | Truro, Cornwall, England, or after Jeffrey G. Vivian, an
         | English mineralogist."
        
           | AlecSchueler wrote:
           | That said the name Vivian does derive from the Latin name
           | Vivianus, which comes from the Latin word vivus, meaning
           | "alive"
        
         | est wrote:
         | IIRC there's a theory that blue paint is incredibly expensive
         | in the past.
        
           | gilleain wrote:
           | So ultramarine blue
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine) is made from
           | lapis lazuli which is a semi-precious stone. That was
           | presumably quite expensive.
        
             | philk10 wrote:
             | Rivaled the price of gold and was used on the most
             | important figures eg the Virgin Mary - until a reward was
             | offered for a synthetic version -
             | https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-a-brief-
             | histor...
        
             | QuercusMax wrote:
             | TIL that the name "ultramarine" is because it came from
             | "beyond the sea" (Afghanistan) from the perspective of
             | Rome. I always figured it was because it's such a deep
             | blue.
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | It gets darker with increased oxidation/time. It likely was
         | very vivid at one point.
        
       | admissionsguy wrote:
       | Soul crystals?
        
         | deadbabe wrote:
         | Would be a great alternative to cremation.
        
           | sangnoir wrote:
           | I think a company that makes diamonds from remains-based
           | carbon already exist
        
       | aargh_aargh wrote:
       | Wow, I got two different cookie consent overlays on android
       | chrome on top of each other. That's a first. They must REALLY
       | care about my privacy.
        
         | larodi wrote:
         | Happily reader mode works just fine with this page.
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | https://archive.is/l68pV
        
         | muffles wrote:
         | As each year goes by, I get more and more annoyed by the cookie
         | consent pop-ups.
         | 
         | Does U.S. law really require cookie pop-ups? And don't most
         | websites store the cookies before consent is given anyways?
         | 
         | https://olivergrimsley.com/2022/03/04/please-stop-putting-co...
        
           | texuf wrote:
           | 100%. This also bugs me: Why can't websites set a cookie that
           | stores whether I've consented to the cookie pop up? On some
           | sites I have to keep consenting over and over (IKEA comes to
           | mind).
        
             | forgetfulness wrote:
             | Stack Exchange is downright malicious in having you click
             | it on each subdomain.
             | 
             | No, I don't care that one user created the Math forum and
             | another created the Sysadmin forum, it's all run by you
             | Jeff, that's who I am engaging when clicking the popup, not
             | MathFan1982
        
             | Sebb767 wrote:
             | This is mostly malicious compliance - the law does not
             | require these annoying popups, but the websites want them
             | to a) make you dislike the law that prevents them from
             | freely collecting your data and b) wearing you down, so you
             | just accept instead of making the effort to go and deny the
             | data collection. Also, at this point it's probably also a
             | lot of cargo culting.
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | It's mostly ignorance now. Most people don't know the law
               | and don't know how to comply with it. If the popup method
               | hasn't been invalidated by a court, why spend more on
               | time, energy, and risk doing something different?
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Is there really much risk in just not tracking by
               | default?
               | 
               | I think ignorance is part of it, but also, they don't
               | actually want to do what users want them do to, which is
               | just not track unless the user goes looking for options
               | that actually require tracking at a technical level.
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | > Is there really much risk in just not tracking by
               | default?
               | 
               | Let's see... I can't even stop Marketing from breaking
               | our site with Google Tag Manager.
               | 
               | A significant portion of our sales come from the ability
               | to track users and email them useful product
               | recommendations.
               | 
               | We do not sell customer data and try to avoid vendors who
               | do. It's only used internally.
        
               | burnished wrote:
               | Absolutely not. The people implementing know, and the
               | people designing know. This represents intentionality.
        
             | klyrs wrote:
             | I always assume that they'd stop asking if and only if you
             | say yes to all -- is that not the case?
        
           | dv_dt wrote:
           | IMHO it's because they can try to apply a dark pattern to
           | have users accidentally consent to more tracking than they
           | might normally agree to.
        
           | staticautomatic wrote:
           | Having a pop up for only cookies is silly, but at least as
           | often they're used for data processing consent and that makes
           | more sense than putting the consent form on a splash screen
           | or in the body of the page I guess.
        
         | BoxOfRain wrote:
         | I know this is a pretty unoriginal point, but I wish cookie
         | consent could be a browser setting you set once and never have
         | to deal with again unless you need to change it for a specific
         | site. The nag screens have got to be the worst possible
         | implementation, it's like none of the people who decided this
         | was the way it ought to be done ever heard of alarm fatigue.
        
           | fukusa wrote:
           | Isn't this the Do Not Track (DNT) header?
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track
        
           | genter wrote:
           | It's malicious compliance. Websites are free to simply not
           | track you.
        
             | weberer wrote:
             | Its also malicious legislation. The EU could have easily
             | wrote a line in the GDPR requiring companies to respect the
             | Do Not Track header. But they chose not to. They also
             | included various loopholes such as "legitimate interest".
             | The legislation was just enough that it looks like they're
             | doing something, without actually hurting the surveillance
             | industry's bottom line too much.
        
               | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
               | The DNT header was devalued when Microsoft enabled it by-
               | default in Internet Explorer, because it made it
               | impossible for websites to determine if the DNT header
               | was actually set by user-choice or not: any in-page
               | cookie-consent popup that collected actual consent
               | wouldn't change the DNT header sent by the browser, for
               | example.
               | 
               | I honestly don't know if Microsoft in 2011 was doing this
               | for unsurprising business reasons (e.g. as a ploy to hurt
               | Google (AdSense was still all-the-rage), because it's
               | good PR, because they had any genuine concern for their
               | users' privacy, and to do anything to win-back market-
               | share from Chrome and Firefox) - or if it was an
               | intentional move to torpoedo the DNT header by showing
               | how useless it is but only because they implemented it
               | precisely so that it would be useless... but Microsoft
               | wouldn't benefit from user-tracking over the Internet
               | anywhere near as much as Google did/does/would-do.
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | It should be the default. Maybe we could add a new 'Track
               | Me Please' header that users can opt into
        
               | devsda wrote:
               | In that case just like anti ad-blockers, the first thing
               | we see on a page will be a _very helpful_ guide to enable
               | the opt-in header for that particular browser.
        
               | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
               | When third-party cookies get blocked by-default this
               | whole thing will be moot, imo.
        
               | Sayrus wrote:
               | DNT, if respected, also applied to first party cookies as
               | well as other tracking mechanisms.
        
               | naravara wrote:
               | The EU is willing to force every user to go through an
               | annoying browser ballot upon buying a new phone or
               | computer, but can't force the browser to include a DNT
               | prompt up front if it's that much of an issue?
               | 
               | Plus it's not as if these companies weren't willing to
               | assume consent in the absence of the DNT flag. It sounds
               | like a bit of BS to suddenly worry about what consent
               | really means when it goes against their bottom line. I
               | don't see many hands being wrung about whether the user
               | is meaningfully consenting when they click the easiest
               | and most visible button to dismiss a banner that obscures
               | a quarter of their screen.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | > because it made it impossible for websites to determine
               | if the DNT header was actually set by user-choice or not
               | 
               | Somehow that never bothered sites when the default let
               | them track users.
        
           | chronogram wrote:
           | If it was a browser setting, which already exists but gets
           | ignored, it would get ignored and would throw up a popup
           | anyway. You can use Consent-O-Matic[0] though, you can even
           | select the types of tracking you do want.
           | 
           | 0: https://github.com/cavi-au/Consent-O-Matic
        
           | thwarted wrote:
           | P3P looked so hopeful, but died long before the legal
           | requirements were there.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P3P
        
           | razakel wrote:
           | That's exactly the point: it's to make people angry at the
           | "stupid politicians" instead of the data thieves.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | No sites want that though because everyone would either check
           | 'no cookies' or 'only necessary cookies' which would ruin
           | their ability to make money off the vast majority of visitors
           | to their sites.
        
       | kingspact wrote:
       | What is it? Cloudflare's "protection" has blocked me from being
       | able to see half the Internet lately.
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | Welcome to cloudflare internet. Where one company can decide
         | voluntarily or not what one gets to see.
        
           | mhuffman wrote:
           | Careful! When you mention Cloudflare in anything other than
           | glowing terms, a random stranger will often show up, begin to
           | have a tough but good natured debate with you, then near then
           | end say "full disclosure, I work at Cloudflare". This has
           | happened to me more than once on HN.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | Can you link these? This kind of comment can mean anything
             | from "6 years ago I was constantly commenting against
             | something they were doing and it kinda happened twice with
             | some employees that are HN regulars and had it in their
             | bios but didn't feel the need to disclose in the first
             | message" to "It's a regular occurrence even despite the
             | number of threads about Cloudflare here and they are often
             | done with freshly created company accounts" or anything in-
             | between. This makes it hard for one to judge for themselves
             | how much of a real issue this has been vs a personal grudge
             | someone might hold against the company.
             | 
             | Disclaimer: I don't have a damn thing to do with Cloudflare
             | :).
        
             | PhasmaFelis wrote:
             | Is that...bad? You don't make it sound unreasonable.
        
               | NegativeLatency wrote:
               | If I was going to argue/debate positively for my employer
               | I'd say that up front
        
               | throwway120385 wrote:
               | Do you work for Cloudflare?
        
               | VagabundoP wrote:
               | A Cloudflare employee has got to tell you if they are a
               | Cloudflare employee
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | *unilaterally
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | yeah, voluntarily felt odd being used in that manner
        
         | nkotov wrote:
         | Vivianite
        
       | Delumine wrote:
       | I know this isn't in the best taste, but a ring made from this
       | material would definitely give mystical vibes.
        
         | oooyay wrote:
         | Of course, Etsy has a market for this:
         | https://www.etsy.com/market/vivianite_jewelry
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Okay, but those aren't made of people, right?
           | 
           | ...
           | 
           | They're not made of people, right?
        
             | msrenee wrote:
             | Not made of people. Vivianite forms plenty of other ways
             | too.
        
       | ch33zer wrote:
       | Don't believe the inners, it's clearly protomolecule:
       | 
       | https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Protomolecule
        
         | prox wrote:
         | Ha my first response when I read the title!
        
         | corysama wrote:
         | I was thinking https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Bluegleam
        
         | devsda wrote:
         | It's a magicule ore. Probably magisteel.
         | 
         | https://tensura.fandom.com/wiki/Magicule
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Can't take the Razorback
        
       | nailer wrote:
       | Flashbacks to Upsteam Color (if anyone hasn't seen it, it's the
       | other film from the creator of Primer).
        
         | tleilaxu wrote:
         | I adore that film. It is nuts, but has a dreamy metaphysical
         | quality to it that I love.
        
       | hn72774 wrote:
       | There's a "blue babe" mammoth specimen at the UAF museum. It was
       | preserved in permafrost. Same chemistry.
       | 
       | https://www.uaf.edu/museum/press/spotlight/blue-babe/
        
       | dabluecaboose wrote:
       | https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/morbid-monday-fisk-mum...
       | 
       | AO article on the briefly mentioned cast-iron coffin with face
       | window, in case anyone else was curious as I was
        
       | accrual wrote:
       | Tangentially related - the low-poly retro horror game Cave
       | Crawler (2023) touches on this concept (minerals growing on
       | bodies). It's currently $1.99 USD and I thoroughly enjoyed a
       | playthrough.
       | 
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/2282480/Cave_Crawler
        
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       (page generated 2024-05-02 23:01 UTC)