[HN Gopher] New startup sells coffee through SSH
___________________________________________________________________
New startup sells coffee through SSH
Author : ethanholt1
Score : 489 points
Date : 2024-05-01 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.terminal.shop)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.terminal.shop)
| tithe wrote:
| Hmm, a CLI interface for consumer purchasing.
|
| Can I pipe that order through to a payment processor and delivery
| method? Script my meals for the week?
| solardev wrote:
| Everquest has you beat by a couple decades:
| https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7020132
|
| In that game you can type /pizza and it'll get ordered and
| delivered
| tithe wrote:
| Nice. I was wondering if this had been done somewhere before.
|
| "Sony plans to integrate the pizza function more tightly into
| the game", which every game should do, of course :)
| codetrotter wrote:
| Game programmers: it's a video game, we don't need the same
| kind of application security that other programs do
|
| Hacker: Hold my beer while I exploit this dude's game
| client and makes it order 10,000 pizzas to his door
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Why would you order 10,000 pizzas to _someone else 's_
| door?
|
| Unless you don't have 10,000 hungry friends.
| codetrotter wrote:
| To cost them a lot of money for all those pizzas. And to
| cost the pizza shop money if they can't collect payment
| for the pizzas. And to cause general grief and misery, as
| trolls are wont to do :(
| ethbr1 wrote:
| But, you could also not pay the money AND have the
| pizzas.
| gavindean90 wrote:
| And you left a paper trail
| ethbr1 wrote:
| That's why you order them to a neighbor's house who's out
| of town.
|
| Eastern Europe's been having fun with variants of this
| since the 90s.
| floam wrote:
| By killing the delivery worker?
|
| AFAIK the ol' unlimited free pizza by killing the thread
| trick no longer works. It sure was nice while it lasted,
| especially on platforms that easily let you kill a thread
| id, even kids could do it.
|
| Remember how on BeOS there was a GUI for it? Great for
| unfreezing a crashed app that had state you wanted to try
| to recover or free leaked pizza.
|
| Now worker threads spawned for delivery hold a lock
| preventing new pizza being placed in the oven for that
| address, which is not released until the add payment
| callback is successful. Destroy the only thread holding
| the lock, and pizza orders just queue up forever. :(
| ethbr1 wrote:
| That makes me miss the days when "but in 3D!" was a novel
| business model...
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=everquest+gameplay&t=fpas&iar=imag.
| ..
|
| Hard to be formulaic when there's not a formula.
|
| "Why not real pizza ingame?"
| solardev wrote:
| The Everquests certainly seem dated today, but for their
| time, they were pretty neat! The gameplay was simple
| (especially by today's standards), but it was a pretty
| unforgiving game that required a lot of teamwork. It was
| the social aspect that kept most people playing, I think,
| especially in guilds.
|
| I remember a lot of the playerbase kept asking for
| significant changes to make the game less grindy and
| hardcore, but the main game designer would always push back
| and reiterate The Vision(tm) (in their words) and stick to
| their plans. Not only did they not ask for feedback, they
| would actively fight back against it and reinforce their
| stance. Well, they must've done something right... 25 years
| later, EQ is still alive, celebrating its anniversary, and
| making new expansions (after several sets of
| publisher/developer changes, though).
|
| If not for EQ, we wouldn't have had World of Warcraft and
| all the other MMOs. But today's MMOs have all become
| basically "massively singleplayer" in that grouping is rare
| outside of guilds and limited end-game raids, with bots and
| boosters of various sorts taking the place of what used to
| require multiple real people (AI really IS ruining
| everything!)
|
| The social aspect has been heavily deemphasized nowadays
| (Diablo and Destiny don't even have global chats anymore)
| and you mostly just see the ghosts of people doing their
| own things with no real need to interact with them anymore.
| Too bad =/
|
| Showing off /pizza or other fun commands (emotes, music,
| crafting, etc.) was a big part of the old-school
| experience. These days there are still some semi-social
| MMOs (New World has an awesome group music jamming system,
| where multiple people can get together and jam like Rock
| Band/Guitar Hero:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWZJNnaLNU)... but sadly
| no more in-game pizza that I know of.
|
| -----------
|
| If anyone's looking for an old-school MMO in the style of
| EQ, Project Gorgon is an indie MMO made by (I believe) a
| mom-and-pop dev team:
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/342940/Project_Gorgon/
| robertlagrant wrote:
| > Demonstrating a deep understanding of what its computer-
| gaming audience, Sony has built the ability to order pizza
| into its latest online multiplayer game.
|
| NBC's command of language might not be good, but it turns out
| it is consistent.
| hk1337 wrote:
| Pizza Party beat this by a few years, I believe.
|
| https://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/04/05/07/138238/piz.
| ..
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J691aLfkWP0
| gnabgib wrote:
| Page title: _wip: terminal_
| skilled wrote:
| That is objectively a worse title than what is submitted -
| which explains what the page/product does.
| lxe wrote:
| Interesting. I like this. No need for a cookie banner.
| f_devd wrote:
| I mean, if they somehow ported google analytics (or some other
| brokered PII network) I think they technically would need
| consent and disclosure.
| organsnyder wrote:
| They'd only need a cookie banner if they somehow could put a
| cookie on your machine using SSH.
|
| Depending on how they're using any personal data you provide,
| they likely wouldn't need consent: for instance, if they use
| the personal data you provide to ship you your order, they
| don't need to ask (you supplied your information for the
| express purpose of placing an order, after all). However, if
| they want to do more with that data, they'd need consent.
| paxys wrote:
| But what if I want coffee and a cookie?
| joelfried wrote:
| Can I interest you in this delicious cup of Java?
| tonymet wrote:
| they get your ssh public key which is a unique identifier so
| that should be disclosed.
| paxys wrote:
| If they aren't logging it then there's nothing to disclose.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| It's a _public_ key. You should operate under the assumption
| that anyone could have it at any time.
| riffic wrote:
| it's a dessert topping and a floor wax
| Scarblac wrote:
| Still, it identifies you so it can be used to track you
| over visits to many different stores-over-ssh, just like
| third party cookies.
| fragmede wrote:
| if you are aware of other stores-over-ssh, I'd genuinely
| love to hear about them because this one is so fun. Or
| even not-stores that are reachable via ssh. Any MUDs
| still going?
| lxgr wrote:
| You might like https://tildeverse.org/!
| fragmede wrote:
| Doesn't seem to work:
| fragmede@samairmac:~$ ssh tildeverse.org
| fragmede@tildeverse.org: Permission denied (publickey).
| Gud wrote:
| You could work around this with different private/public
| key pairs?
| jethro_tell wrote:
| Lol, the subset of people buying coffee via ssh and
| shopping elsewhere via ssh is going to be insanely small,
| they can probably already more or less track you.
|
| Additionally, you're probably giving a shipping address
| and using a card number of some sort.
|
| Its extremely difficult to shop anonymously online for
| physical goods.
| melodyogonna wrote:
| > Lol, the subset of people buying coffee via ssh and
| shopping elsewhere via ssh is going to be insanely small
|
| Yeah, nerds. In the FAQ there is the question "What is
| SSH", and the answer is - "If you have to ask then it's
| not for you".
|
| Edit: Seems the FAQ may have been updated or this simply
| wasn't part of the online version,
| https://imgur.com/a/igjGCFM here is a section of the FAQ
| sent to my email.
| mr_mitm wrote:
| You could use one key per service. Almost like a passkey.
| david422 wrote:
| That's kinda what I thought about emails too but ...
| somehow that has changed.
| tonymet wrote:
| what does that have to do with disclosing the potential for
| tracking?
| safdskljlkj wrote:
| If IIS had won the server wars, your MOTD could give you
| targeted ads based on exactly this. Oh, the innovation!
| dezren39 wrote:
| it's a us company they don't need a cookie banner anyways
| quesera wrote:
| Be careful. If you have California customers you need to
| worry about California's Invasion of Privacy Act, California
| Penal Code section 630, et seq. ("CIPA").
|
| It's not clear that it applies to the web! But predatory
| lawyers will come after you for it, if you are big enough and
| don't have a cookie banner.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >No need for a cookie banner.
|
| there was never a need
| atq2119 wrote:
| There is never a _good_ reason for cookie banners, by
| definition.
|
| The rule is that if you have a good reason for your cookies
| (i.e., basically one that isn't user-hostile), you have nothing
| to worry about and don't need a cookie banner.
|
| It's only when you engage in user-hostile practices, such as
| tracking, that you need to ask for consent.
|
| I'm being sightly snarky, but that's really the essence of it.
| s__s wrote:
| Very few people understand the law and just opt to
| defensively throw a cookie banner up on the site. Usually a
| 3rd party service.
|
| At this point I've even had clients ask for it, thinking it
| makes their site more professional and credible, since
| everyone else does it.
| quesera wrote:
| You are not _wrong_.
|
| But beware the predatory lawyers who will come after you for
| ostensible violations of California's Invasion of Privacy
| Act, California Penal Code section 630, et seq. ("CIPA").
|
| One company I work with received multiple arbitration demands
| (damages in excess of $25000, helpfully offered to settle for
| $5000 each claim!). And they didn't even set any cookies or
| run any 3P tracking on their site!
|
| Their (famous, expensive, California-based) lawyers said
| "yes, we are seeing this more and more. We can fight and win
| for $200K, or you can pay the $50K of claims outstanding and
| add a banner to your site".
|
| Their CEO chose the less-expensive option. :-/
| Dig1t wrote:
| It's sold out and the only option if you actually connect via ssh
| is to give them your email address so they can send you updates.
| bradlys wrote:
| Makes me wonder if this is just a ploy to email harvest and
| there never was any coffee being sold.
| aaroninsf wrote:
| for backend dev recruiterspam
| fragmede wrote:
| They were mentioned 2 and 1 days ago, and weren't sold out
| then.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40200701
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40208417
| ehutch79 wrote:
| The Primeagen is behind this, and they had physical samples
| at react whatever in miami recently for whatever that's worth
| memco wrote:
| There's always risk exchanging money and information with a
| merchant regardless of where and how the transaction takes
| place. And SSH is a fairly unconventional way to run a
| business so that's a point in favor of extra caution. That
| said, tit is pretty unlikely to be a scam. Two of the team
| members are theprimeagen and teej_dv; both longtime
| twitch/youtube streamers: with a reasonable following: one of
| whom is a core neovim maintainer. They streamed the
| development of most of this live on twitch. They have a
| reputation to uphold and a track record of other publicly
| facing work to help support the legitimacy of this venture.
| Sadly, the VOD requires a subscription and the source isn't
| available (though they said they plan to open source it) so
| there's not much to fall back on other than hearsay until the
| orders start arriving or the code gets posted.
| sm0ol_ wrote:
| all the guys involved with this are public and legit. you
| just happened to look after they were sold out. I ordered
| some just fine.
| netsharc wrote:
| Hah, they went awesome and implemented an SSH interface, and
| they ended up with an unescapable "subscribe to our fucking
| newsletter" prompt anyway...
| mebazaa wrote:
| Reminds me of prose.sh. Turns out, there's a lot you can do if
| you SSH keys as an authentication mechanism!
| nescioquid wrote:
| This seems obligatory: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/Coffee.html
| daft_pink wrote:
| now I need a turing complete waffle iron
| nerdjon wrote:
| Was kinda hoping this was some place selling made coffee, but I
| do realize the reach of that would be small.
|
| But I do kinda like the idea of something as... niche as this
| popping up in a highly tech area and then offering the ability to
| buy and get your coffee without ever seeing someone.
|
| Like you just walk into a room with a rotating door (like one you
| might see at a doctors office for samples) or something like
| that.
|
| Feels very... introvert and would be kinda fun.
| skilled wrote:
| Kind of disappointed that there is no option for commands like
| "ls" or "whoami". I think it would be a nice addition, especially
| if this inspires other people to launch similar pages for other
| types of products.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Reminds me of my friend's zine-via-telnet:
| https://anewsession.com/
| FerretFred wrote:
| Now /that's/ interesting! Thanks for the link - I must try this
| myself...
| colesantiago wrote:
| zero interest rate startups are still in fashion I see.
| jethro_tell wrote:
| What makes you think any small business like this would need to
| get VC funding for a website and a simple tui program with a
| couple features?
|
| People make cafes and coffee shops all the time without taking
| money or at least VC money.
| sm0ol_ wrote:
| they're self-funded, there's no interest rates present.
| daft_pink wrote:
| only if they spunoff their ssh based shopping cart with stripe
| integration to a vc funded startup.
| wrs wrote:
| Love the idea! Congratulations (?) on being sold out!
|
| My constructive feedback is that the text contrast is so low (in
| iTerm2 anyway) I can barely read anything. I thought only web
| pages had that problem, but I guess sufficiently sophisticated
| TUI apps have designer color problems too! What's next,
| incredibly tiny terminal fonts? (jk, designers...sort of)
| ethanholt1 wrote:
| I wasn't the one who made this, fwiw.
| semessier wrote:
| I wanted to ask if they do telnet/finger also, but there is no
| email listed.
| sva_ wrote:
| Really cool interface. Is there any list of such servers publicly
| available through ssh?
| tonymet wrote:
| create the next ssh crawler
| tonymet wrote:
| I long for an alternate dimension where terminal-based internet
| like Minitel dominated .
|
| Something like hypercard implemented with 80x24 ncurses UI
| mdgrech23 wrote:
| The real power of the internet all along in my opinion was
| networked databases. Everything else is fluff and not a
| particularly great use of resources.
| tonymet wrote:
| networked spreadsheets would have been ideal
| fouc wrote:
| I love TUI (as in text-based user interfaces) so much more than
| GUI. It always felt like a far more peaceful and productive
| environment.
| tiptup300 wrote:
| As long as I have ctrl+c/v copy and pasting I'm right there
| with you.
| umbra07 wrote:
| don't you mean yy and p?
| redundantly wrote:
| this comment is based
| tonymet wrote:
| vim-based
| redundantly wrote:
| vim-enhanced
| supercheetah wrote:
| I think you mean M-w and C-y.
| tonymet wrote:
| Responsive, high-contrast, low bitrate, low complexity
| allknowingfrog wrote:
| I love the idea of TUIs, but I honestly don't have a lot of
| experience with them. There's a lovely Go library called Wish
| that I keep looking for reasons to use.
| https://github.com/charmbracelet/wish
| IamDaedalus wrote:
| charm bracelet has some really great projects and my
| obsession for TUI interfaces is why I'm learning Go so that
| I can use one of their libraries in a peoject
| vinay_ys wrote:
| ncurses!
| mindcrime wrote:
| TurboVision!
| Justsignedup wrote:
| Command line dominates in quick flexibility. But is awful when
| it comes to discoverability. Most people can't even find the
| turn off ads button in windows 11. And people hate that. So
| what hope do they have at a terminal.
| thsksbd wrote:
| I think Ms Dos 6ish TUI integration was very well done,
| better than Linux today.
|
| Word perfect had good mouse support, as did Editor.
| anthk wrote:
| ELisp and Emacs UI tools under the TTY version it's close.
|
| Also, check gopher and gopher://magical.fish under Lynx or
| Sacc. The news section it's pretty huge for what you can get
| with very, very little bandwidth.
|
| gopher://midnight.pub and gopher:/sdf.org are fun too.
|
| And, OFC, the tilde/pubnix concept. SDF it's awesome.
| pahool wrote:
| $25 for 12 oz? Yikes!
| tonymet wrote:
| what did you expect when they said "startup" and not "shop"
| jkestner wrote:
| Free coffee in exchange for all future rights to my
| productivity metrics.
| tonymet wrote:
| knowing "startups" i'm sure their vision is streaming SSH
| subscription as a service . They track your keystroke rate
| and automatically ship new batches of $2/oz coffee when you
| get below 90 keystrokes/min
| mywittyname wrote:
| No joke, but "startup" can often be code for, "extremely
| high-quality items that are subsidized by VC money". The
| quality doesn't last, but if you get in early, you can often
| buy stuff that's way nicer than it should be for the price.
| tonymet wrote:
| i would frame this comment if I could.
|
| Early AirBnB, Lyft, Uber, Lime, Bird, Netflix, online-
| retail were very high quality for low cost and then
| inverted.
| fabian2k wrote:
| With 70$/kg that's at the upper end of typical prices for
| specialty coffee (though I'm not familiar with US prices
| specifically). No idea if they are at a level where they can
| compete at that price point, a single blend as main product is
| rather odd for a coffee roaster. At this price point you'd
| usually get various single origin coffees.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Guessing you're not an Onyx Coffee fan then? =)
| ok123456 wrote:
| I'm sticking to costco.
| tonymet wrote:
| $2 / oz via ssh or 50[?] / oz via Costco
| ok123456 wrote:
| More like 30[?]/oz.
| toddmorey wrote:
| The founders have a great (if conversational and sometimes off
| topic) podcast about development topics:
|
| https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-about-tomorrow/id1...
| 1f60c wrote:
| "Universal" podcast link: https://pods.link/i/1651741524
| whimsicalism wrote:
| They sold out in 15 minutes? Or this is email/ip addy harvesting?
| mminer237 wrote:
| From their Twitter, they sold out yesterday. OP must have just
| thought it was interesting regardless, even if it's a
| suboptimal time for them.
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| Scared to order after xz exploit...
| mateusfreira wrote:
| Same here, I know Prime tho. I really looks fun, but sound
| scary
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Reminds me of
|
| "Before Google, Sergey Brin tried (and failed) to let us order
| pizza by fax"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5264626
| rvnx wrote:
| One safety tip: disable SSH Agent Forwarding before you connect,
| otherwise the remote server can theoretically reuse your private
| key to establish new connections to GitHub.com or prod servers
| (though this host is unlikely malicious).
|
| https://www.clockwork.com/insights/ssh-agent-hijacking/ (SSH
| Agent Hijacking)
| fragmede wrote:
| The full command you want is: ssh -a -i
| /dev/null terminal.shop
|
| to disable agent forwarding, as well as to not share your ssh
| public key with them, but that's just a little less slick than
| saying just: ssh terminal.shop
|
| to connect.
| glennpratt wrote:
| I'm curious why you added `-i /dev/null`. IIUC, this doesn't
| remove ssh-agent keys.
|
| If you want to make sure no keys are offered, you'd want:
| ssh -a -o IdentitiesOnly=yes terminal. Shop
|
| I'm not sure if the `-i` actually prevents anything, I
| believe things other than /dev/null will still be tried in
| sequence.
| ProfessorZoom wrote:
| instructions not clear, my entire drive is empty now
| fragmede wrote:
| Check for yourself with ssh -v -i
| /dev/null terminal.shop
|
| vs ssh -v terminal.shop
|
| What you're looking for is that there is no line that says
| something like debug1: Offering public
| key: /Users/fragmede/.ssh/id_rsa RSA
| SHA256:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
|
| Upon further testing, the full command you want is:
| ssh -a -i /dev/null -o IdentityAgent=/dev/null
| terminal.shop
|
| to forcibly disable a local identity agent from offering up
| its identities as well, and not just agent forwarding.
|
| Upon further testing, ssh -o
| IdentitiesOnly=yes terminal.shop
|
| still offers up my public key on my system (macOS,
| OpenSSH_9.6p1, LibreSSL 3.3.6), contrary to what
| StackOverflow and the Internet seems to think. Tested by
| hitting whoami.filippo.io, linked in child comment.
| Jenda_ wrote:
| For a cool example (deanonymization), see
| https://words.filippo.io/dispatches/whoami-updated/
| (discussed at time:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34301768). Someone
| has crawled public keys from GitHub (tbh I was surprised
| that GitHub publishes them) and set up a database.
| fragmede wrote:
| It's quite useful! I can give someone access to my server
| by grabbing their public key and creating an account for
| them, no need figure out how to send them the password to
| my server.
| Repulsion9513 wrote:
| Honestly the only thing that you need is -a (and only if you
| made the bad choice to do agent forwarding by default).
| Sending your pubkey (and a signature, because the server
| pretends to accept your pubkey for some reason?) isn't a
| security risk and you're (in theory) going to be providing
| much more identifying information in the form of your CC...
|
| (And as the siblings mentioned this won't work to prevent
| your key from being sent if you're using an agent)
| Intralexical wrote:
| I just ran it in a `tmpfs` without any credentials:
| $ bwrap --dev-bind / / --tmpfs ~ ssh terminal.shop
| jamesdutc wrote:
| I think you may want to clear the environment (e.g., of
| `SSH_AUTH_SOCK`) as well as isolate in a PID namespace as
| well. I also reflexively `--as-pid-1 --die-with-parent`.
| bwrap --dev-bind / / --clearenv --tmpfs ~ --unshare-pid
| --as-pid-1 --die-with-parent ssh terminal.shop
|
| (The `bwrap` manpage says "you are unlikely to use it
| directly from the commandline," yet I use it like this all
| the time. If you do, too, then we should be friends!)
| chuckadams wrote:
| I take it you mean disable ssh agent _forwarding_ -- the agent
| itself is fine. You should never forward your ssh agent to a
| box you don't trust as much as your own.
| rvnx wrote:
| Message edited, thank you, you are absolutely right.
| bananskalhalk wrote:
| *disable ssh agent FORWARDING.
|
| Which honestly should always be disabled. There are no trusted
| hosts.
| tichiian wrote:
| That's baby+bathwater.
|
| Just use ssh-add -c to have the ssh-agent confirm every use
| of a key.
| bananskalhalk wrote:
| TIL. Thanks! Gonna do wonders when working at places where
| I can't use a hardware key with physical confirmation of
| use.
|
| My assessment still stands. Use proxyjump (-J) instead of
| proxy command whenever possible.
| tichiian wrote:
| What can also help is specifying the right options right
| in ~/.ssh/config for certain hosts and domains: E.g. do
| "ForwardAgent no" globally, use a "Match *.my-
| trustworthy-company-domain.com" block and add
| "ForwardAgent yes" there.
|
| Also very good for other options that are useful but
| problematic when used with untrustworthy target hosts,
| like ForwardX11, GSSAPIAuthentication, weaker *Algorithms
| (e.g. for those old Cisco boxes with no updates and
| similar crap).
|
| Another neat trick is just using a ""Match *.my-
| trustworthy-company-domain.com" block" with an
| "IdentityFile ~/.ssh/secret-company-internal-key"
| directive. That key will then be used for those company-
| internal things, but not for any others, if you don't add
| it to the agent.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Whenever possible, yes, but AIUI it's not always
| possible; the one use case for which I believe full-on
| forwarding is required is using your personal credentials
| to transfer data between two remote servers (ex. rsync
| directly between servers). If there's a way to do that I
| would actually much appreciate somebody telling me, but I
| have looked and not found a way.
| derefr wrote:
| > There are no trusted hosts.
|
| ...your own (headless) server that's in the same room as you,
| when you're using your laptop as a thin-client for it?
| xandrius wrote:
| With all these recent exploits, I wouldn't even be 100%
| sure of that.
| wolletd wrote:
| But if I can't trust even that host, I also can't trust
| the host I'm working on and which doesn't need agent
| forwarding to access my SSH agent.
| hot_gril wrote:
| Trusting one host is safer than trusting two hosts.
| jethro_tell wrote:
| This is where certs are nice, sign one every morning with
| a 8/12 hour TTL
| dotancohen wrote:
| Depending on what it's serving, and how up to date it is,
| and who else is on that network and can access the server,
| and who else can come into that same room when you're not
| there, and from where you get the software that you install
| on that server... it might be less trustworthy than you
| think.
| jstanley wrote:
| But if that's your standard then the laptop you're
| connecting from is not trusted either, and then you're
| not even allowed to use your own keys.
|
| You're allowed to draw sensible boundaries.
| sva_ wrote:
| I've found myself to be much more comfortable to just define
| all my private keys in ~/.ssh/config on a host-by-host basis.
| contingencies wrote:
| Default for the last 24 years according to
| https://github.com/openssh/openssh-
| portable/blame/385ecb31e1...
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| "ForwardAgent no" in ~/.ssh/config will do this automatically.
| zaik wrote:
| Not having "ForwardAgent yes" in ~/.ssh/config will do this
| automatically too.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Seems like a ridiculous amount of hoopla over something
| that isn't even a default.
| orblivion wrote:
| Is it "yes" by default? If so, that seems insane given what
| the op said about it. But other comments say it's "no" by
| default. If it's "no" by default, why are people alarming us
| by bringing this up? And why for terminal.shop in particular?
| hot_gril wrote:
| Maybe there was some blanket advice in the past to enable
| it? Idk, this got me alarmed for nothing.
| zzo38computer wrote:
| The man page for ssh_config(5) says that it is set to "no"
| by default, at least on my computer.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Is "Host * \n AddKeysToAgent yes" acceptable from a security
| POV or should that also be per host?
| jolmg wrote:
| Default is disabled.
| hnarn wrote:
| Exactly, this tip only applies if you reconfigured ssh to
| automatically forward agent to all hosts, which is absolutely
| insane.
| nomel wrote:
| Is it not standard practice to make different keys for
| different important services?
|
| I have a private key for my prod server, a private key for
| GitHub, and a private junk key for authenticating to misc
| stuff. I can discard any without affecting anything else that's
| important.
|
| If I authenticated with my junk key, would my other keys still
| be at risk?
| ShamelessC wrote:
| It's a practice, but not necessarily a standard one. In any
| case if even one person sees that, the advice will have
| served its purpose.
| brandensilva wrote:
| TIL, the good news I guess is I only ssh into my hosting
| platforms and GitHub who have a reason to protect my data
| since I pay them.
|
| Still I'll be sure to break up my keys more going forward
| and disable SSH forwarding.
| leni536 wrote:
| It's a good practice, but it's somewhat against the grain of
| ssh defaults. It's not surprising that many people stick to
| the defaults.
| hot_gril wrote:
| If anything it's more standard practice to have agent
| forwarding disabled, since that's the default.
| n2d4 wrote:
| _> If I authenticated with my junk key, would my other keys
| still be at risk?_
|
| Yes, if you authenticate with your junk key (or no key), and
| SSH agent forwarding is enabled, you are still at risk. It
| lets the remote machine login to any server with any keys
| that are on your local SSH agent. Parent's link shows how
| this can be abused.
|
| Fortunately, it's disabled by default, at least on newer
| versions.
| Repulsion9513 wrote:
| The only reason/benefit for using different keys is to
| prevent someone from correlating your identity across
| different services... if you're worried about that go ham
| thih9 wrote:
| This is only a threat if you enable agent forwarding for all
| hosts.
|
| If you enable agent forwarding for all hosts then yes, data
| will be forwarded.
|
| Your link says:
|
| > Don't enable agent forwarding when connecting to
| untrustworthy hosts. Fortunately, the ~/.ssh/config syntax
| makes this fairly simple
| binkHN wrote:
| Like you noted, ForwardAgent no is the default in
| /etc/ssh/ssh_config.
| chrismorgan wrote:
| And for privacy, don't let it know your identity or username:
| ssh -o PubkeyAuthentication=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null
| -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -a nobody@terminal.shop
|
| Otherwise, the remote server can probably identify who you are
| on platforms like GitHub.
| abc_lisper wrote:
| Dang. Didn't know this was a thing. Thank you!
| gowld wrote:
| That's terrifying. I don't understand why the design requires
| Forwarding to work without more explicit consent from the
| client at use time. (That is, when the middle tier wants to
| make a connection, it should forward an encrypted challenge
| from the server that can only be decrypted, answered, and re-
| encrypted by the original ssh keyholder on the client, similar
| to how, you know, ssh itself works over untrusted routers.
| ZiiS wrote:
| It is not the default, you would have to have a silly config
| for this to matter.
| acchow wrote:
| AFAIK, that's exactly how agent forwarding works. The
| explicit part is that you need to explicitly turn it on
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Using discoverable and non-discoverable keys via FIDO security
| keys will require PIN + physical confirmation, or just physical
| confirmation, by default if anyone tries to use your agent's
| keys.
| kolinko wrote:
| Sold out :(
| cozzyd wrote:
| hopefully using a java implementation of an ssh server
| nkcmr wrote:
| I'd bet it is probably Golang and using this:
| https://github.com/charmbracelet/wish
| bored9000 wrote:
| ssh -v reports remote software version Go, immediately looked
| like the charm stack to me as well
| Shakahs wrote:
| I'm curious how they built this. It's SSH but the IP address is
| Cloudflare's edge network. It could be using CF Tunnel to
| transparently route all the SSH sessions to some serving
| infrastructure, but I didn't know you could publicly serve
| arbitrary TCP ports like that. Building it in serverless fashion
| on CF Workers would be ideal for scalability, but those don't
| accept incoming TCP connections.
| Scaevolus wrote:
| Yup! Cloudflare naturally advertises HTTP most heavily and it
| has fancier routing controls, but it supports arbitrary TCP
| protocols.
|
| > Cloudflare Tunnel can connect HTTP web servers, SSH servers,
| remote desktops, and other protocols safely to Cloudflare.
|
| https://developers.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-one/connections...
|
| > In addition to HTTP, cloudflared supports protocols like SSH,
| RDP, arbitrary TCP services, and Unix sockets.
|
| https://developers.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-one/connections...
| londons_explore wrote:
| That requires the client to install custom tunnelling
| software.
|
| If you want the client to not require special software, they
| provide a web based terminal emulator for ssh, and a web
| based VNC client.
| KomoD wrote:
| Cloudflare Tunnels only open HTTP/S to the internet, you'll
| need their client to reach the other protocols. More likely
| that this is Cloudflare Spectrum.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Cloudflare workers has support for inbound TCP coming 'soon'
| [1]. Maybe they have early access?
|
| [1]:
| https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/reference/protocol...
| nkcmr wrote:
| Most likely using "Spectrum" which allows Layer 4 TCP+UDP
| proxying/DDoS protection:
| https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/clo...
| thdxr wrote:
| hey - worked on this it's using Cloudflare Spectrum which can
| proxy any tcp traffic
|
| will be talking more about this soon
| normsbee wrote:
| This is so cool! Just imagine a world where you can run
| `getcoffee latte` and have a latte show up at your door 20
| minutes later.
| paxys wrote:
| Most of these APIs already exist, just that they are hidden
| behind custom apps and auth walls. For example you can order
| coffee on starbucks.com or doordash.com right now and see all
| the network requests which facilitate the delivery.
| objektif wrote:
| Your receipt: - latte 5.99 - delivery fees 5.99 - ssh fees 0.99
| - internet fees 0.59 - water 0.19 - sewage 0.09 .....
| jethro_tell wrote:
| Sub total 5.99 Total. 10.80
|
| Wait, what?
| daft_pink wrote:
| someone call the ftc lol
| aftbit wrote:
| Ah lame, they won't even let you browse since they're sold out.
| krasin wrote:
| I believe it's just a stub for collecting emails. Nothing more.
|
| Edit: somebody was able to order coffee through them (see
| below).
| aftbit wrote:
| Well I hope they enjoy getting a lot of fake emails, because
| that's what's gonna happen.
| krasin wrote:
| Many people forget that their email is included in the
| public key that is presented to the ssh server by default.
| So, the email collection form is actually somewhat
| redundant.
|
| But yes, I added my share of funny email addresses to their
| list. Tradition is a tradition.
| chuckadams wrote:
| All of my ssh keys are chuck@hostname, which is the
| default output of ssh-keygen. I've never had a valid
| email in any of my ssh keys.
| aftbit wrote:
| Oh mine sure isn't. Mine is username@hostname, which
| doesn't even get you close to my email.
|
| Regardless, I connected with: ssh -o
| IdentityAgent=/dev/null -i /dev/null terminal.shop
|
| Really tempted to write a bot to spam that form... but
| I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to see
| if they come back in a week or so.
|
| I just don't get why I can't read the FAQ even though
| they're sold out. Kinda missing their moment here by
| having nothing to do other than give an email and quit.
| seszett wrote:
| What do you mean? Public keys don't usually include an
| email address. They have an id that's usually in the form
| "user@host" but that's unlikely to be a valid email
| address. Maybe some systems use an email address there,
| but none of those I know.
| krasin wrote:
| > They have an id that's usually in the form "user@host"
| but that's unlikely to be a valid email address.
|
| They are valid email addresses most of the time, in my
| experience. :)
| nkcmr wrote:
| Nope! It is real, I was able to order some coffee a few days
| ago. Will report back on if it shows up or if it is any good
| :)
| krasin wrote:
| Oh, cool! That gives me hope.
| thisisauserid wrote:
| Is it /usr/locally grown and single .'ed? How quickly can they mv
| it to my ~?
| phone8675309 wrote:
| Pretty good
| Y_Y wrote:
| unzip
| yegle wrote:
| It would be awesome if I can do something like this:
|
| > ssh terminal.shop "register foo $pubkey"
|
| > ssh foo@terminal.shop "set shipping address to $addr, credit
| card info $info, email address $email"
|
| > ssh foo@terminal.shop "order one 12oz light roast"
| kobieps wrote:
| I would not be upset if the entire internet went back to this.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Looking forward to reading about this incredible journey
| orblivion wrote:
| So unless you mean to exclusively sell coffee to users who don't
| have a white terminal background, you may want to consider your
| color scheme. I was missing the white text.
|
| (I know this is considered an atrocity by some, but I happen to
| not really care enough about my terminal color to change the
| default)
| bee_rider wrote:
| The atrocity was committed by whoever set that default, we can
| work out a plea deal as long as you rat them out.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Mac OS X's Terminal.app used to be black-on-white by default,
| wouldn't be surprised if that's still the case.
| gavindean90 wrote:
| The whole system wide light/dark stuff came about too late to
| help our terminal sessions.
| zzo38computer wrote:
| Is there an environment variable defined for specifying if you
| want light or dark colours? If so, then it would help with
| local programs, and also with remote programs (such as this
| one) if you add a SendEnv command into the SSH configuration
| file to specify that SSH should use this environment variable.
| hk1337 wrote:
| Reminds me of the pizza cli app that would order Domino's Pizza.
|
| _EDIT_ Pizza Party is what I am thinking about.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J691aLfkWP0
| melodyogonna wrote:
| Prime and Teej streamed the development
| raytopia wrote:
| This is really cool. I wonder how they pipe the data to stripe?
|
| As an aside kind of funny to see this pop up. I was just talking
| about if anyone was doing ordering through a cli a while ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=39817617
| abe-101 wrote:
| With the stripe api Why would their backend be different then
| any other website using stripe
| pimlottc wrote:
| > # use the command below to order your delicious 12oz bag of Nil
| Blend coffee
|
| > ssh terminal.shop
|
| Oops, I thought I was supposed to enter it directly into the
| prompt on the webpage. The styling makes it look like an
| interactive console, I figured they included an embedded
| javascript SSH client for users who might not have one.
| mgfist wrote:
| Made the same mistake
| Repulsion9513 wrote:
| PSA to anyone making a public SSH service: List the fingerprint,
| not the host key, thanks. (Or better yet list both!)
| robocat wrote:
| Please avoid acronyms on HN or spell them out. We don't all
| live in your context.
|
| duckduckgo just says PSA is Prostate specific antigen. What did
| you mean?
| snapcaster wrote:
| public service announcement, chatgpt would have got it for
| you
| eddd-ddde wrote:
| IIRC Public service announcement.
| acheong08 wrote:
| Public service announcement. It's very widely used
| thdxr wrote:
| hey! i'm one of the people who worked on this, we actually
| launched a few days ago and sold out quite quickly - we'll remove
| the email capture so you can poke around
|
| we'll be back in a few weeks with proper inventory and
| fulfillment
|
| we'll also be opensourcing the project and i can answer any
| questions people have about this
| d3m0t3p wrote:
| Hey, nice work, how to get updates about the open source
| release ?
| thdxr wrote:
| probably follow the twitter account @terminaldotshop
| Mockapapella wrote:
| oh shit, you're open sourcing this as well? I'd love to use a
| similar workflow for some of my projects. Love the idea!
|
| Also you guys should post over on Threads -- a bunch of people
| over there are really into the idea as well:
| https://www.threads.net/@mockapapella/post/C5_vLdDP0J1
| cbhl wrote:
| Looks like they're sold out now.
|
| The "enter your email for restock updates" part of the screen
| showed up as white-on-white on my light-mode-by-default Gnome
| Terminal on my first try and so I was slightly confused; sshing
| from `uxterm` worked fine though.
| exabrial wrote:
| The authenticity of host 'terminal.shop (172.65.113.113)' can't
| be established. ED25519 key fingerprint is
| SHA256:TMZnO7N8mmR/Pap3urU2P4uBNuhxuWtDUak0g9gyZ8s
|
| That's a bit different than the key listed
| tichiian wrote:
| No. The key listed is the whole plain ed25519 pubkey (those are
| relatively short). The message displays the SHA256 digest.
|
| You can check that in your local known_hosts file (after having
| connected at least once) with "ssh-keygen -F terminal.shop -l"
| and "ssh-keygen -F terminal.shop -lv". (Yes, it is confusing
| that the command is named "ssh-keygen" but does lots of things
| that are not about generating any keys)
|
| If you want to do it without connecting, try "ssh-keyscan
| terminal.shop".
| zaik wrote:
| Have you added the required line to ~/.ssh/known_hosts as
| described on their website?
| glonq wrote:
| sure, but can I _sudo a sandwich_ ?
| k8svet wrote:
| Man, consumerism is a powerful drug. Just one gimmick needed.
| jethro_tell wrote:
| I mean, some of us are going to buy and drink coffee anyways.
| nomel wrote:
| In this case, caffeine would be the literal drug.
| ayman_saleh wrote:
| This is genius!
|
| Not sure how the stripe payments intake work but very cool!
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| A lot of people don't know that before Amazon started, there was
| a company out of Portland, OR called Bookstacks selling books via
| a telnet interface. In the early days, Bezos was quite worried
| about their potential to get "there" first (wherever "there" was
| going to be). It was a fairly cool interface, at least for 1994.
|
| [ EDIT: worried to the point that we actually implemented a
| telnet version of the store in parallel with the http/html one
| for a few months before abandoning it ]
| mleo wrote:
| There were a few using telnet before the web gained wider
| traction. For example, CDNow started out that way in 1994.
| simantel wrote:
| Do you have more info? I found this article[0] about "Book
| Stacks" which became Books.com, but it looks like they were
| based in Cleveland?
|
| [0] https://sbnonline.com/article/visionary-in-obscurity-
| charles...
| newsclues wrote:
| A large bookstore was using CLI for their internal inventory
| management system well into the 2000s.
| ahazred8ta wrote:
| Yes, they were the original books.com, and I used to buy from
| them via telnet before they had their www site up.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Are the beans any good, what kind of roast?
| low_tech_punk wrote:
| How does scaling work for SSH? e.g. How many concurrent
| connections can the server handle?
| pmarreck wrote:
| I love TUI's. And now that Sixel exists, we can even have images
| in the Terminal.
|
| The massive simplification this provides over rendering HTML/CSS
| should be attractive to startups.
|
| Now I wish we had a CLI/TUI for things like Amazon...
| arianvanp wrote:
| Another service that is completely controlled through a ssh tui :
| https://nixbuild.net
| yalok wrote:
| I would really like to see a decaf option there.
| miki123211 wrote:
| I can't test this due to the product being out of stock, but I
| wonder what their approach to PCI compliance is.
|
| Processing credit card data has a high compliance burden if
| you're unwilling to use a secure widget made by an already-
| authorized provider like Stripe. That's for a good reason, most
| web and mobile apps are designed such that their backend servers
| never see your full credit card number and CVV. You can't do this
| over SSH.
|
| I also wonder whether you could even do this if you had to handle
| PSD2 2-factor authentication (AKA 3d Secure), which is a
| requirement for all EU-based companies. This is usually
| implemented by displaying an embed from your bank inside an
| iframe. The embed usually asks you to authenticate in your
| banking app or enter a code that you get via SMS.
|
| You can take the easy way out of course and make the payment form
| a web page and direct the user to it with an URL and/or a
| Unicode-art rendition of a QR code.
| srinathkrishna wrote:
| They mention in the faq that they use Stripe -
| https://www.terminal.shop/faq. Stripe does offer integrations
| that are not natively using their widgets. Ultimately, the PII
| data is stored at Stripe.
|
| PS: I work at Stripe but I don't really work on the PCI
| compliant part of the company.
| samwillis wrote:
| Interestingly Stripe started life as /dev/payments and I seem
| to remember the first iteration was an agent on your server
| that literally processed card payments when you wrote the
| details to /dev/payments
| ppbjj wrote:
| That's awesome
| zzo38computer wrote:
| I think that a better way (which is protocol-independent, and
| does not require a web browser, or even necessarily an internet
| connection), would be a kind of payment specification which is
| placed inside of a order file. This payment specification is
| encrypted and digitally signed and can be processed by the bank
| or credit card company or whatever is appropriate; it includes
| the sender and recipient, as well as the amount of money to be
| transferred (so that they cannot steal additional money), and
| possibly a hash of the order form. A payment may also be made
| by payphones or by prepaid phone cards (even if you do not have
| a bank account nor a credit card), in which case you may be
| given a temporary single-use key which can be used with this
| payment specification data; if you do not do this, then you can
| use the credit card instead.
| thescriptkiddie wrote:
| The burden of PCI compliance is a lot lighter than you might
| think. You basically just have to fill out a bunch of forms,
| there's no inspection or anything.
| mhh__ wrote:
| I've been toying around with an ssh based casino recently.
| manicennui wrote:
| I really like Fellow Drops:
| https://fellowproducts.com/pages/fellow-drops
|
| It is SMS based. Each week they offer a different bean from a
| different roaster, and you reply with the number of bags you
| want. I've discovered a number of great roasters this way.
| rrr_oh_man wrote:
| I might be horribly out of touch, but... is $25 for a 12oz bag of
| not-totally-horrible coffee beans really a normal price?
| mywittyname wrote:
| No. 12oz Dunkin is like $9 at Target, same with Starbucks
| medium roast; Pete's is $12. The most expensive stuff is this
| mushroom chuga coffee (I have no clue what this is) for
| $16/12oz. And Target is generally more expensive than most
| chain supermarkets.
|
| So no, not a normal price.
| lee_a wrote:
| not normal price for anything you'd find in most grocery
| stores.
|
| but as an anecdote, I get a lot of coffee from the Fellow Drops
| subscription service, and those bags average around $25 - often
| for less than 12oz.
| poopsmithe wrote:
| So cool! Congrats on selling out!
|
| I was curious to see if I could connect using mosh. I could, but
| I wasn't able to use the hotkeys to browse the different screens
| like I was when I connected via ssh.
| worker_thread wrote:
| I am very curious how this is built, I would like to build
| similar SSH interactive experiences. Any resources and how to get
| started would be really appreciated. (I know how to setup a basic
| TCP server that listens on SSH port, but I really don't know how
| to implement navigation etc for the SSH experience)
| zedutchgandalf wrote:
| I think they use Wish in Go:
| https://github.com/charmbracelet/wish The company making this,
| charm.sh, has a whole bunch of cool cli frameworks
| zachlatta wrote:
| I love this. If you love this, you might also like a game I built
| a while ago: $ ssh sshtron.zachlatta.com
| geuis wrote:
| If you're looking for a movie to enjoy with your coffee,
| https://ascii.theater/ ssh -a -i /dev/null -o
| StrictHostKeyChecking=no watch.ascii.theater
| doawoo wrote:
| Neat -- big fan of TUIs! But I'm an even bigger fan of coffee...
| so show me where that coffee actually is sourced from...
|
| Did you go and source it from farms? Is this sourced from another
| company? Whose blend? Do you provide the roast date on the bag?
| low_tech_punk wrote:
| "Shell company" takes on a new meaning!
| dingosity wrote:
| Happy to see this didn't work scp foo.txt
| terminal.shop:.
|
| I was worried for a second they hadn't thought of that.
| dingosity wrote:
| Though obviously, something like scp
| evil_passwd_file terminal.shop:/etc/passwd
|
| or scp evil_authorized_keys
| terminal.shop:.ssh/authorized_keys
|
| is really the kind of thing you don't want. But if you can't
| copy foo.txt into your home directory, you probably can't copy
| attacker versions of more sensitive files into sensitive
| locations.
| nunez wrote:
| This is cool; I wish they had decaf single origin!
| dancemethis wrote:
| Claim to be ethical, yet don't deliver in the country the coffee
| is actually made.
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