[HN Gopher] Calendar types in watches
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Calendar types in watches
Author : farslan
Score : 163 points
Date : 2024-04-29 17:43 UTC (2 days ago)
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| joshlemer wrote:
| Anyone know about any mechanical wall clocks, grandfather clocks,
| or mantle clocks (? I mean ones that stand on their own) which
| show the date? It seems that this is a really commonly sought
| after feature of wrist watches but for some reason hard to find
| or non existent in mechanical non-wrist clocks.
| quartesixte wrote:
| Unfortunately they're not really a thing. Some
| grandfather/grandmother clocks came with moon phases, but
| innovation never made it further.
|
| IMO mostly has to do with the fact that mechanical clocks
| didn't see much innovation over the past century. The most
| talented watch makers have gone on to watches and people
| largely stopped buying Grandfather clocks.
|
| Not to mention, other obvious problems of weight, material
| costs, and the increased size requiring more power to turn all
| those gears.
| joshlemer wrote:
| Dang that's a shame. One would think though, if the
| mechanical design is already done for wristwatches, it should
| be trivial to port that design over to full-sized clocks,
| literally just scale the mechanism up!
| al_borland wrote:
| I think at this stage of the game, none of these things are
| made for utility, they are made to flex watchmaking skill.
| Building something big isn't as impressive and building
| something small. Unless you're talking about the air clocks
| of Paris. Those are still rather impressive, because of the
| scale [0].
|
| [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gol_p2aWrJg
| dylan604 wrote:
| Every 24 hours, advance the DoW through 360deg/7 increments.
| At the same time, every 24 hours advance the DoM through 28,
| 29, 30, 31 increments. How do you now keep DoW and DoM in
| proper sync when DoM needs to be updated ~every other month?
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Probably because you can more easily refer to a calendar on a
| wall when the clock doesn't move.
| knodi123 wrote:
| Imagine how well it would be received if you said "My
| grandfather clock has a date display- except it's manual, you
| have to twist a little knob once a day to keep it correct."
|
| That's how I feel about wall calendars.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| You can build a habit of doing it every morning, like
| brushing your teeth. The physical act of fixing the date
| every day can help ground you and slow down the passage of
| days.
| knodi123 wrote:
| Hm. Maybe so, interesting thought.
| WillAdams wrote:
| I have a mechanical wall clock in storage which shows the day
| of the week as well as the date --- it was made in Japan ---
| it's in storage 'cause it was over-tightened and the main
| spring broken, and rather than being repaired, it was just re-
| fastened, so now it runs fast and gains a couple of minutes
| each month (the chime is also rather loud for a 1,200 sq. ft.
| home).
| joshlemer wrote:
| FWIW I've seen some DIY enthusiasts do some really cool things,
| I think this one for instance turned out really cool and would
| be a breathtaking wall piece. Even better if it ran and was
| powered fully by the counterweight mechanism rather than
| electronically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8_N8HKOXw
| mik1998 wrote:
| Calendars is a part of why I've been wearing Casio digital
| watches for a long time.
| knodi123 wrote:
| The display on the Timex Expedition is my favorite. For some
| reason I just find it more readable than a casio- maybe it's
| because the display segments are closer together? Or the
| greater font-size contrast in the time vs date?
| al_borland wrote:
| I spent years looking for my perfect travel watch after being
| bit by the watch bug. After looking for years (literally 10
| years), I've found it and couldn't be happier... the Casio
| world time.
|
| My first thought was to go for a GMT, but those can't handle
| time zones that aren't on the hour, like India. Trying to find
| a mechanical watch that solves for this is very difficult. I
| was stuck in this purgatory for so long.
|
| I don't remember what led me to the Casio, but whatever it was
| made me completely reevaluate what I wanted out of the watch.
| The quartz movement became a feature, thanks to the 10 year
| battery. I can grab it and go whenever I need, and change the
| battery whenever I renew my passport. The low cost is a
| feature, as I don't have to treat it well or worry about it, or
| worry that it will make me a target. If anything happens, oh
| well, it was $40. It has 37(?) timezones and can handle the odd
| ones, and handles DST independently for each timezone. Its
| fantastic. I don't think any mechanical watch can do what it
| does, and if one can, it would cost more than my house and take
| the better part of a day to set.
|
| The Casio is one of the cheapest watches I own, but whenever I
| put it on it makes me so happy, because it reminds me I finally
| solved my travel watch problem. I just finished my first trip
| with it and already saw the value of the independent DST
| function.
|
| I've found some mod sites that sell nicer cases and bands to
| make it more durable, but I decided that defeats some of the
| purpose, as the cheapness is a feature. It was helpful to find
| out an eraser can be used to remove some of the ridiculous text
| on the case. That makes it look much better.
| joshlemer wrote:
| Not just in watchmaking but in general I agree with this idea
| that the cheapness is in and of itself, a feature. Like, not
| only because you can afford it, but the fact that something
| is so inexpensive actually enhances my enjoyment of it, or
| rather, something being very expensive detracts from it. It's
| the same with, say, bicycles. Yeah, people can fork over $5k
| for a carbon fiber state of the art road bike, but then it
| weighs on you when you take it out. Don't want to lean it
| against anything, worried taking it downtown in case someone
| mugs you for it, can't leave it out to pop into the shop. You
| end up just not even having a good time, compared to a
| beater. Same for cars, furniture, instruments, etc.
| dallas wrote:
| I recently got a russet brown Vario strap for my silver
| "Casio Royale" and I do rather like it. I'm not ashamed to
| admit I prefer cheap and cheerful digital watches to pedigree
| analog watches. We are programmers/electronics folks after
| all. I got a Sensor Watch Lite board for my F-91W after
| reading about it here on HN and it's brilliant. I've written
| a bunch of hobby-related complications for it.
| piltdownman wrote:
| If you're settling for Quartz, why not split the difference
| and get a good Atomic Time watch for under $500 like a
| Citizen?
|
| https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/mens-atomic-
| ti...
| al_borland wrote:
| I looked at Citizen briefly during my search.
|
| I don't think they have anything that solves the non-
| standard time zone problem.
|
| At $500, it's moving into a market segment where I'm going
| to care if something happens to it. I want to be carefree
| on vacation.
|
| In this particular case, the Casio is unapologetically
| quartz. I don't think I'm settling here, and it's not a
| cheap watch pretending to be a more expensive watch. It's a
| cheap beater watch that also happens to have a world time
| function. With an analog watch, I'd feel like I was
| settling for quartz... unless it's a Spring Drive or F.P.
| Journe.
|
| At home I have some nice automatics that I general wear.
| For these, I prefer a very simple aesthetic, a no-date dial
| is ideal. Citizen tends to have very busy designs.
| joshlemer wrote:
| Are these watches actually atomic clocks
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_clock) or are they
| "atomic" in some other sense?
| al_borland wrote:
| They receive a signal from an atomic clock on a regular
| basis to sync up and avoid drift. Between those signal,
| they use a quartz movement to keep time.
| throw0101b wrote:
| Personally I find it more handy to know _day_ (of week) than
| _date_ (of month), but I don 't think I've every seen a watch
| that does day-only, usually either date-only or day-date.
| madcaptenor wrote:
| I think the idea here might be that people already know what
| day it is but they have to think about the date.
| throw0101b wrote:
| > _I think the idea here might be that people already know
| what day it is but they have to think about the date._
|
| I don't know about you, but for myself I find the days kind
| of blur together (especially (during-COVID, post-COVID) WFH).
|
| I rarely need to know day-of-month.
| tialaramex wrote:
| That might even be true for many of the population, but I'm
| exactly in the target demographic of people who get unsure of
| such things.
|
| My favourite ever gift from friends was that people bought me
| (last century, long before smartphones) a _24 hour_ radio
| synchronized digital alarm clock which knew the day and full
| date including year. Because while often I know 0600 from
| 1800, not always, and on a particularly bad day maybe I 'm
| not even sure which week this is. I didn't _need_ the year
| really, but it felt appropriately completionist, just in
| case.
| throw0101b wrote:
| > _My favourite ever gift from friends was that people
| bought me (last century, long before smartphones) a 24 hour
| radio synchronized digital alarm clock which knew the day
| and full date including year._
|
| I know a retiree that got this as a (sort-of, sort-of-not
| joke) gift because she mentioned that she sometimes forgets
| the day:
|
| * https://www.lacrossetechnology.com/products/513-1419v4
|
| (Works best near a window where the radio signal from
| Colorado can be heard.)
| akira2501 wrote:
| I've gone into the office on Saturday more often than I care
| to admit.
| dylan604 wrote:
| not once ever have I made that mistake. I might have woken
| up on a Saturday and thought it was a weekday, but well
| before appearing at work was that confusion cleared up. How
| does one do that more than once?
|
| Even work from home is immediately cleared up once I look
| at my computer screen.
| berkes wrote:
| I'm also that demographic.
|
| In my case, a combination of having no kids, being
| entrepreneur (self employed) and having ADHD.
|
| I have to ask people "is it tuesday or monday today" at least
| once a month. It gives strange looks. People often look at
| me, clearly trying to figure out if I'm bullshitting them.
| But I honestly forget such -for me- unnecessary details.
|
| But I guess having children, or a regular job, or both, gives
| a firm anchor of weekends and weekly rhythms. I've had long
| periods of jobs were I too had such anchors.
|
| Best way to explain it, is when you are on holiday (in one
| place), for a few weeks, you also don't know what day it is.
| I guess I always have holidays?
| kybernetyk wrote:
| >But I guess having children, or a regular job, or both,
| gives a firm anchor of weekends and weekly rhythms.
|
| I think it's not having the "regular job". I have a kid
| whom I daily bring to day care and I regularly don't know
| what weekday it is.
|
| Reminds me of the Downton Abbey joke(not really a joke)
| about "what is a weekend?":
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onUkNsXks54
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| How do you know if it's the weekend or not?
| crazygringo wrote:
| Yup. I totally get (from other comments here) that there are
| exceptions, because everyone's different!
|
| But most people always know exactly what day of the week it
| is, but rarely know the date. (The only time I'm _ever_
| unaware of the day is on vacation occasionally.)
|
| And the date is needed basically every time I sign anything
| on paper, as you almost always put a date next to any
| signature -- whether you're writing a check, filling out
| forms at the doctor's office, signing consent forms for an
| activity, and so forth.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| That's me as well; I had to look through so many watches that
| show the date with so few that show the weekday. I wish my
| Seiko didn't show the date because I have to adjust it 5 times
| a year, but the day-of-week is always right.
|
| Also, Seiko's watchfinder won't let you filter based on whether
| or not it has a DoW complication; very annoying.
| al_borland wrote:
| This would actually be a very nice complication, as it would
| never need to be reset, as long as the watch stays wound. I'm
| surprised it's not something I've seen, or even thought of.
|
| I ended up settling on no-date watches, as I find setting the
| date to be annoying, and it's not something I need that often.
| When I do need it, I have my phone. I think I'd ultimately feel
| the same way about a day of the week complication.
| josters wrote:
| This[1] 1980s Raketa has an interesting visual display of the
| day of the week. The red dot corresponds to the current day. It
| does however show the date as a number on the bottom as well.
|
| [1]: https://mroatman.wixsite.com/watches-of-the-
| ussr/raketa?ligh...
| mmcgaha wrote:
| My eyes are so bad now that I would rather have a no date.
| Strangely the no-date watches tend to be out of my price range.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The Seiko Essentials series has several watches without
| complications; some have a street price of under $200.
| buescher wrote:
| Some even omit the second hand which is the most technically
| correct version of "without complications". Also the most
| traditional/formal for a men's dress watch or women's watch.
| jddj wrote:
| For an automatic with no date, the bulova hack is quite nice if
| the vintage field look works for you.
|
| The one I had was great for the price, probably the most
| accurate automatic I ever owned but that could well be luck.
| al_borland wrote:
| There is also an issue where some cheap no-date watches use a
| complication with a date, and just don't cut out the dial to
| show it. I try to watch out for this whenever I'm looking for a
| watch.
| throw0101b wrote:
| > _My eyes are so bad now that I would rather have a no date.
| Strangely the no-date watches tend to be out of my price
| range._
|
| Have a look at Fleiger-style ("pilot watches") watches:
|
| * https://timeandtidewatches.com/best-flieger-watches/
|
| * https://www.gearpatrol.com/watches/a97397/flieger-watches/
|
| * https://teddybaldassarre.com/blogs/watches/flieger-watches
|
| Models available ranging from US$150 to $15000.
| jmyeet wrote:
| Patek Phillippe has a complication not mentioned on this list
| that is one of the most complex complication ever built: the
| Calibre 89 [1] that can keep track of when Easter is (to a
| point).
|
| Another contender is the Vacheron Constantin 57260 [2].
|
| Here [3] is a good demonstration of how a perpetual calendar
| works.
|
| [1]: https://hausmann-co.com/en/the-patek-philippe-
| calibre-89-the...
|
| [2]: https://www.prestigetime.com/blog/worlds-most-complicated-
| wa...
|
| [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YERho3Q4Abo
| smitty1110 wrote:
| Ah yes, the Hebrew calendar on the 57260 is sorta mind-bending
| to figure out. It's hard to imagine figuring that out by mere
| observation and tabulating records. Their more recent Berkley
| Grand Complication [1] took things a step further with a
| Chinese Perpetual Calendar, which is kinda hard to explain. The
| article linked does a better job than I would at walking
| through the system.
|
| 1: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/introducing-vacheron-
| const...
| beckerdo wrote:
| A very good article, well explained, and I appreciate the photos
| of fine watches.
|
| As shown, date complications are very tough to calculate and
| there are many levels of features.
|
| However, the phases of the moon complication is not discussed in
| much depth here. Is it a simple calculation independent of the
| date?
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Not a watchmaker, but I would expect those complications to
| just use average values to show the current lunation[1].
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_phase#Calculating_phase
| int08h wrote:
| The average duration between any two moon phases is 29.530589
| days.
|
| Many watches use 29.5 days between phases for simplicity. This
| results in the watch's moon phase display being off by one day
| for every two years the watch operates.
|
| There are a few watch manufacturers that use epicyclic gear
| trains to make the moon phase calculation more precise. An
| example: the Ochs und Junior moon phase watch will operate for
| 3,478.27 years before its moon phase display is off by one day
| (https://www.ochsundjunior.swiss/watches/moon-phase/).
| zokier wrote:
| Perpetual calendar complications are approaching the territory of
| mechanical computers and thus hold interest to me. It is
| interesting challenge to think of how to accomplish some other
| alternative calendars mechanically.
| user_7832 wrote:
| As much as I will most likely never spend 6 figures on a watch, I
| greatly appreciate their engineering. Tangential, does anyone
| know how easy is it to design and build your own movement?
| sndean wrote:
| I don't know about the difficulty, but you can look at the
| complexity of this ETA 6497 movement on GrabCAD [0]. After
| seeing this a while ago, it made sense to me why small/new
| brands generally use a Seiko NH35 or something similar that
| they can buy in bulk.
|
| [0] https://grabcad.com/library/eta-6497-1-complete-watch-
| moveme...
| user_7832 wrote:
| Thanks a lot! Sounds like reverse engineering a complicated
| (heh) watch movement could be a fun challenge to start with!
| throw0101b wrote:
| > _As much as I will most likely never spend 6 figures on a
| watch, I greatly appreciate their engineering._
|
| How about in the US$ 9000 range? Frederique Constant
| Manufacture Slimline Perpetual Calendar:
|
| * https://www.chrono24.com/frederiqueconstant/manufacture-
| slim...
|
| (Perhaps as a gift to yourself for a major milestone: 50th
| birthday, retirement, _etc_.)
| user_7832 wrote:
| Thanks for the suggestion, certainly possible I think.
| Honestly it depends a lot on how my career/income turns out,
| but the watch looks good!
| dot5xdev wrote:
| Question for folks who live in non-English speaking countries: do
| you guys wear watches with calendars in English?
|
| Last time I was in a mall in Mexico City, I asked a guy behind
| the counter of some store if they had any watches that had either
| the months or days of week in Spanish... surprisingly, the answer
| was no. English only.
| throw-the-towel wrote:
| Same thing in Russia, only the old Soviet-era watches have
| calendars in Russian.
| jhbadger wrote:
| Weird. My Seiko 5 automatic (about $150, probably one of the
| cheapest self-winding mechanical watches) has the days of the
| week in English, Spanish, and French. Weirdly, (but I suppose
| it makes sense if you think about how the gears work), if you
| look at the watch at an odd time (like say 3am) it is showing
| the day in one of the two non-selected languages.
| tijtij wrote:
| I have a cheap Casio watch that has both Spanish and English
| days
| ginko wrote:
| You can get German versions for most Swiss and German watches I
| believe.
|
| For instance: https://thewatchguy.de/watch/18039-day-date-the-
| german-tropi...
|
| It's a matter of replacing a dial:
| https://jmpwatches.com/products/rolex-datum-tages-scheiben-d...
| czarit wrote:
| I have a Champion watch that (inexplicably) has days marked in
| English and Portuguese. It was purchased in Sweden.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| My Seiko SNK807, Seiko SKX009, and Tissot Visodate all have an
| English/Spanish date wheel. I believe JDM Seiko watches have a
| Japanese/English date wheel.
|
| My other three watches (Hamilton, Tudor, Rolex) are simple
| three-handers with no other complications.
| jhoechtl wrote:
| Hah, the author of the go-vim plugin!
| thristian wrote:
| Being used to the world of software, where only ignorant and
| amateurish systems don't handle the 400-year rule in the
| Gregorian calendar, it's eye-opening to find out that people are
| paying thousands of dollars for a time-keeping device that needs
| the date to be manually fixed five times a year.
| piltdownman wrote:
| First off, not all Calendar complications are made the same.
| The standard Patek Phillipe Annual Calendar needs only one
| correction per year - from February 28 or 29 to March 1. The
| 'plain calendar' complication needs adjusting five times a year
| for months of less than 31 days, but the far more popular
| perpetual calendar requires no adjustment whatsoever.
|
| Secondly, your argument is fairly analogous to having to tune a
| Violin when perfectly good Violin virtual instruments and
| samples exist, indistinguishable for the use-case in question.
| By framing the question like that you're kind of missing the
| point about Horology and owning mechanical trinkets for the
| sake of marvelling at their construction and innovation.
| kahnix wrote:
| While the rest of what you said is true, perpetual calendars
| require setting for the year 2100, still a while to go
| though!
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| There's still a big difference in the sound of an actual
| violin and a digital recreation. But both a mechanical and
| digital watch will display the same information.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > ... it's eye-opening to find out that people are paying
| thousands of dollars for a time-keeping device that needs the
| date to be manually fixed five times a year.
|
| People used to wear gold as jewelry _thousands of years ago_.
| And some people still do just that. That behavior predates a
| great many currencies. For example I 'm pretty confident people
| shall still wear gold as jewelry long after the EUR currency
| shall be dead.
|
| Enter any jewelry store in the west now and they'll tell you:
| men buy jewelry too now. But it didn't use to be that way:
| typically a watch was the _only_ jewelry a man was allowed to
| wear.
|
| I've got a very nice japanese mechanical watch which shows day
| of the week, day of the month and power reserve in addition of
| the time. Got it for 300 EUR brand new at a "family sale".
|
| When I'm wearing that watch there's some device responsible for
| the zombification of the west I can do without: my smartphone.
| Adjusting it manually once in a while doesn't seem that bad of
| a deal.
| julian_t wrote:
| A watch and a signet ring. In the UK at least, rings were a
| common piece of male jewelry.
| omoikane wrote:
| I suspect people who buy expensive watches aren't bothered by
| having to adjust them a few times a year, assuming they didn't
| buy those watches as investments.
|
| I have a very cheap (~$10) mechanical pocket watch, and it's
| not all that accurate in keeping time. But to me, winding the
| watch and adjusting the time is part of the fun. Even more fun
| is watching the gears and listening to the ticks, and pulling
| out my pocket watch when my friends started looking at their
| smartwatches.
| dphuang2 wrote:
| idk what to say, its cool to see a bunch of gears tracking time
| and stare at it while it works ._.
| robxorb wrote:
| An excellent visual+interactive deep-dive into the internals of a
| basic mechanical watch - inc. complication for a simple date:
|
| https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/
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