[HN Gopher] Gpt2-Chatbot Removed from Lmsys
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       Gpt2-Chatbot Removed from Lmsys
        
       Author : synthwave
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2024-04-30 18:20 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lmsys.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lmsys.org)
        
       | kevingadd wrote:
       | I don't understand the connection between the submission title
       | and the actual page it links to. Am I missing something obvious?
        
         | Cheer2171 wrote:
         | There was a big rumor that this Gpt2 chatbot was ChatGPT 4.5 or
         | 5. That model is no longer on lmsys. See big discussion:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40199715
        
         | synthwave wrote:
         | Sorry, should have clarified. The part of the site that states
         | the model is currently unavailable links to their evaluation
         | policies which is the link used for this submission :)
        
       | jerbear4328 wrote:
       | The news here is that gpt2-chatbot is confirmed to be an
       | anonymized, unreleased model. See yesterday's discussion here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40199715 The
       | https://chat.lmsys.org page now currently says this:
       | 
       | > *gpt2-chatbot is currently unavailable.* See our model
       | evaluation policy [here].
       | 
       | That link takes you to https://lmsys.org/blog/2024-03-01-policy ,
       | which is this post's URL. The page was edited yesterday (when
       | gpt2-chatbot was added) to include this section:
       | 
       | > Evaluating unreleased models: We collaborate with open-source
       | and commercial model providers to bring their unreleased models
       | to community for preview testing.
       | 
       | > Model providers can test their unreleased models anonymously,
       | meaning the models' names will be anonymized. A model is
       | considered unreleased if its weights are neither open, nor
       | available via a public API or service. Evaluating an unreleased
       | model consists of the following steps:
       | 
       | > 1. Add the model to Arena with an anonymous label. i.e., its
       | identity will not be shown to users.
       | 
       | > 2. Keep it until we accumulate enough votes for its rating to
       | stabilize or until the model provider withdraws it.
       | 
       | > 3. Once we accumulate enough votes, we will share the result
       | privately with the model provider. These include the rating, as
       | well as release samples of up to 20% of the votes. (See Sharing
       | data with the model providers for further details).
       | 
       | > 4. Remove the model from Arena.
        
         | synthwave wrote:
         | It's possible they temporarily removed it because it broke the
         | whole anonymised part of that. It literally had information
         | about itself in its system prompt and people could deduce it
         | was running on an OAI API because of its API error response
         | formatting. Either OAI collected all the data they need or
         | it'll be back with some changes.
        
           | novia wrote:
           | They rate limited it at some point later in the day. The rate
           | limiting applied to all the other OpenAI models also, but
           | none of the non-OpenAI models. Just another data point of
           | validation.
        
             | synthwave wrote:
             | Yeah it's also possible they temporarily took it down
             | because of the flood of users that were slowing down the
             | whole site for everyone. Potential for it to be back but
             | the rate limits are really low, something like 2 queries
             | per user per day
        
         | Jackson__ wrote:
         | > 2. Keep it until we accumulate enough votes for its rating to
         | stabilize or until the model provider withdraws it.
         | 
         | > 3. Once we accumulate enough votes, we will share the result
         | privately with the model provider. These include the rating, as
         | well as release samples of up to 20% of the votes. (See Sharing
         | data with the model providers for further details).
         | 
         | So... make the users do the work for free, but never publicly
         | publish the data? That seems kinda scummy to me.
         | 
         | I was really motivated with the whole public ranking thing, but
         | knowing I'm just doing work for another company with the data
         | never being published sucks the fun out of it.
        
           | throwaway4aday wrote:
           | You get to use unreleased models for free and compare them to
           | others, you are gaining some benefit from this. Why be
           | annoyed about it? They aren't making you do anything, you're
           | choosing to play around with these models in a "gamified
           | evaluation" for whatever reason. If you want to use any of
           | the released models without participating in crowdsourced
           | training then there are tons of options out there to run many
           | of them locally or to pay for private hosting or pay for a
           | chatbot as a service. I don't get what the problem is,
           | they're footing the bill for you after all.
        
             | Jackson__ wrote:
             | What a single person gains from this is extremely little
             | unless they keep track of every vote they do, and do >100
             | of votes. The public ranking allows you to not have to do
             | that.
             | 
             | If there was an opt-out for private model voting, I would
             | choose that simply because I don't care to give some
             | corporation extremely useful data for so little pay.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-30 23:02 UTC)