[HN Gopher] EV fast-charging comes to condos and apartments
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       EV fast-charging comes to condos and apartments
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2024-04-29 16:23 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | Rychard wrote:
       | I wonder what the efficiency losses become in this configuration;
       | using the grid to charge a battery to charge a vehicle.
       | 
       | A quick google query says that efficiency of L2 residential EV
       | chargers is somewhere in the neighborhood of 85%, and for DC-DC
       | chargers the efficiency is in the order of 90%. I don't know
       | nearly enough about this to state anything definitively, but it
       | sounds like the efficiency losses start to accumulate pretty
       | quickly.
       | 
       | I wonder what the break-even point is in terms of cost compared
       | to an average ICE vehicle.
       | 
       | Apply a healthy dose of "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
       | enough" of course, but I am curious about the economics at play.
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | Considering ICE is less than 40% thermal efficiency of the
         | fuel, I'd say it works out just fine.
         | 
         | But fast charging in general should only be used when there's
         | no voice - it's a lot harder on the battery. Better to slow
         | charge overnight.
        
         | travisb wrote:
         | It sounds like you almost have enough numbers to calculate the
         | ball-park efficiency.
         | 
         | Grid -> condo battery ~85% (basically an L2 charger)
         | 
         | Condo battery -> L3 charger let's say ~96%[0] because it's a
         | high discharge rate
         | 
         | L3 charger -> car ~90%
         | 
         | It's simple math now: 0.85 * 0.96 * 0.90 = ~74% end-to-end
         | efficiency.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Energy-efficiency-map-
         | of...
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | With something like this, throwing in solar makes a lot of
         | sense (IMO). There are already batteries involved so you could
         | use solar as the primary recharge mechanism with the grid as a
         | backup.
        
           | lps41 wrote:
           | A single apartment complex could almost certainly not cover
           | enough space with solar panels in order to charge a battery
           | to accommodate this.
        
       | GenerWork wrote:
       | I wonder how much the complex is charging for this, and whether
       | people who have parking spots but don't have EVs also have to
       | pay.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | IMO, Fast charging is really only necessary for long trips.
       | 
       | Since L2 is more than enough to charge overnight, I'd rather see
       | every parking space get a 30A 240V plug (which should be
       | considerably cheaper than charging stations), with some shared
       | metering to not overload the circuit, but also enough to fully
       | charge all EVs overnight - essentially a single L2 charging
       | station, that moderates load over a large number of plugs.
        
         | gpapilion wrote:
         | This is the most reasonable solution as far as I'm concerned.
         | There are still challenges related to this he electrical
         | service the building is provided. For example you may find the
         | building doesn't really have enough energy to provide every
         | spot L2 charging.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | 1 L3 spot doing 150kW translates to ~15 L2 spots or ~100 L1
           | spots.
           | 
           | For the same power distribution, an apartment complex could
           | easily do several L2 spots and L1 for everything else.
           | 
           | With my 11 mile commute, L1 was almost viable (catching up on
           | charge over the weekend).
           | 
           | If both work and apartments had L1, that'd be enough for most
           | people commuting.
        
           | quickthrowman wrote:
           | There are load management/load sharing products available for
           | EV chargers today. Here's a white paper from Eaton: https://w
           | ww.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/emobility/e...
        
         | h0l0cube wrote:
         | > I'd rather see every parking space get a 30A 240V plug
         | 
         | The whole crux of TFA is that this isn't feasible to retrofit
         | to existing apartment complexes:
         | 
         | > For many others, the parking spaces will be owned by the
         | condo association or co-op, complicating the idea of giving
         | each EV driver their own plug. Here, shared solutions make more
         | sense, perhaps starting with one or two shared level 2 chargers
         | as a pilot--often this won't even require extra work to the
         | electrical panel. Costs are a little higher than for a home
         | level 2 charger--between $7,500-$15,000 per charger, perhaps.
         | 
         | > But for larger developments, scaling up level 2 chargers can
         | quickly become prohibitively expensive. Older buildings may
         | well need their electrical infrastructure to be upgraded, and
         | running copper wiring across parking lots starts to add up
         | fast.
        
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