[HN Gopher] Mini ponds are 'tiny universes' of biodiversity for ...
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Mini ponds are 'tiny universes' of biodiversity for gardens and
windowsills
Author : 8BitArmour
Score : 152 points
Date : 2024-04-29 10:25 UTC (12 hours ago)
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| api wrote:
| Be sure there's something in there to eat mosquito larvae. In
| larger ponds there are little fish that you can get that do this.
| skyfaller wrote:
| I really want to make a tiny pond at my house, but I'm afraid of
| the mosquitoes.
|
| My native plant supplier encouraged tiny ponds, saying that while
| you may need mosquito dunks to kill the larva at first, once
| wildlife is established in your pond e.g. dragonflies will
| control the mosquitos just fine. I believe him (or at least that
| it worked for him), but I feel like I would need to do more
| research before putting it to the test.
| kombookcha wrote:
| Apparently there are some types of plants (like lavender, mint,
| rosemary or catnip) which mosquitoes don't like being around
| for whichever reason. Having some near the micropond could be a
| pretty elegant fix if it works.
| _joel wrote:
| Lemongrass too, not sure it could be grown on a window sill
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citronella_oil
| kombookcha wrote:
| The fact that all of these plants have delightful smells
| confirms my dislike of mosquitoes - not only do they bite
| and spread disease, they also have bad taste in garden
| plants.
| neonnoodle wrote:
| Sweet Flag (Acorus calamus) is a similar aromatic grasslike
| plant that grows aggressively in ponds. I planted a few
| thin stalks a couple years ago and now it has outgrown five
| planters and the rhizomes are 2 inches thick. One other
| advantage of this plant is that the stalks provide a
| molting place for dragonflies.
| chongli wrote:
| Get some White Cloud Mountain Minnows (usually just called
| White Clouds). These small fish love to eat mosquito larvae and
| tolerate cold water quite well (down to 41F/5C). If you later
| decide to remove them they shouldn't be too difficult to catch.
| They're also quite beautiful and come in a variety of colours.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| I have them, love them, and have kept them outside before.
| I've found their mouths are too small to eat fully-grown
| mosquito larvae, but as long as they get there before the
| mosquitoes do they will gladly eat the eggs and young
| larvae... they are top/middle feeders and will viciously
| nibble anything in the water column while completely ignoring
| anything on the bottom.
|
| This year I'm hoping to try the variable platyfish,
| Xiphophorus variatus (though most just call them 'variatus').
| They tolerate a similar temperature range to white clouds but
| they're slightly bigger and more likely to eat things off the
| bottom. They're livebearers, so they make more, but in
| fairness white clouds are among the easiest egg-scatterers to
| breed and will likely also make more in a pond.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| I was thinking fish or frogs. I'd imagine little fish are
| easier? Do they just live on the "wildlife" or do you feed
| them ?
| pvaldes wrote:
| They are basically incompatible. Fishes eat frog eggs.
| Frogs eat small fishes. Ponds without fishes sustain a much
| higher diversity of invertebrates and amphibians (and this
| means more clear water).
|
| If the pond is of a decent size and amphibians could hide
| in the margins, fishes could work. Yes. Native species are
| much better. In very small ones just toads and newts are a
| satisfying choice. Add frogs if you don't mind noise.
|
| If you have a place for a mini pond my advice is, _don 't_
| built it.
|
| Go for a small pond instead. Miniponds look nice on
| yoputube but are really unstable, and much more difficult
| to manage long term. They "boil" in a few hours at full
| sun. Freeze in winter and water must be added all the time.
| Is the same mistake as starting aquaria with a too small
| tank. Most people just will quit the hobby in a few weeks.
| skyfaller wrote:
| What constitutes a small pond rather than a mini pond in
| your opinion? Like, what do you think is the minimum size
| for a stable pond ecosystem? Does depth or surface area
| matter more?
| pvaldes wrote:
| Less than 100 Liters is very difficult to manage but aim
| for 500-800 Liters at very minimum because you will want
| to make your pond bigger later. This can fit in any a
| little boring coin of a garden and will became the best
| part of the garden. Everything in a range of four to ten
| liters is not a pond, is a dog bowl and will became a
| mosquito nursery. I see those often adviced by youtubers
| that never tried to manage a pond seriously.
|
| Beware. Ponds of all sizes are dangerous for toddlers and
| ponds must have a side with a gently slope so falling
| pets and animals can climb out. If you have children of
| less than five years, you --must-- cover the pond with a
| solid iron pond cover:
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pond+cover&t=newext&atb=v411-1&
| iax...
|
| Apart of this the "deeper" the pond the more animals will
| fit for the same price. More than 1 meter is normally
| unnecessary in a small garden
| throwaway4aday wrote:
| a simple solution is to put a small submersible fountain pump
| in or even one of those floating solar powered ones. mosquitos
| prefer standing water so if you agitate it enough it will cut
| down on their breeding. please do make every effort to prevent
| them from breeding, your future self and your neighbours will
| thank you.
| froglets wrote:
| You can buy tiny tablets to add to the water that prevent
| mosquito larva from developing but don't harm anything else.
| I've used the Mosquito Killer larvicide in my patio pond for
| years and it works well. Garden centers sometimes have pond
| sections with water plants like hyacinth (very invasive), water
| lettuce, lily.
| WhatsTheBigIdea wrote:
| I'm doubtful of the "...but don't harm anything else"
| statement. Why do you believe this statement to be true?
| xsmasher wrote:
| It's true.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis_israel
| e...
| neonnoodle wrote:
| This is correct. I added dunks exactly once, and the following
| years the predatory insects and frogs have done the job. I do
| regular spot-checks for mosquito larvae and haven't seen one in
| years.
| downut wrote:
| Gambusia to the rescue! Might need some cover to reduce the
| predator problem. Experimenting would be part of the fun.
| modeless wrote:
| In California you can get mosquitofish for free from your local
| county. In many cases you can just put a few in your pond once
| and they will live there indefinitely without needing any care,
| eating all the mosquito larvae they can find.
|
| Here's an example for San Diego but most if not all counties
| will have a similar program:
| https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/deh/pests/wnv/pre...
| pvaldes wrote:
| Take in mind that the common species of mosquitofish is a
| nasty invader in Europe and this is "advice from 70's". We
| know better currently. --Don't do it--.
|
| Some mosquitofishes and many killifishes in America are
| endangered. The common Gambusia will eat every egg of native
| fishes. If you spread the invasive ones in the ponds of the
| endangered ones, this can have serious consequences even in
| USA. Irreversible genetic contamination, parasite spread or
| local extinctions by predation can occur.
| modeless wrote:
| I'm talking about California, not Europe. Mosquitofish are
| native to North America. Sure, don't spread them in natural
| rivers or lakes but there's nothing wrong with keeping them
| in a manmade pond in a backyard in California.
| pvaldes wrote:
| The two species of mosquitofish used normally aren't
| native from California but its main problem is that they
| are boring as a can. There are much more interesting
| options:
|
| Like the Coastal Threespine Stickleback. Sticklebacks are
| the choice fish for small wild ponds in Europe, and is a
| californian native also.
|
| or Fundulus parvipinnis, the Californian killy fish.
| Stands saltwater to freshwater. Common near the coast and
| better than Gambusia (avoid the invasive species Lucania
| goodei that is similar).
|
| Or a single species of a pupfish like the Amargosa river
| pupfish or the Salt Creek pupfish, small native
| tolerating an extreme range of temperatures. Some
| pupfishes are endangered so each new pond counts. I
| assume that there are legal exchanges of this species
| breed on captivity among serious aquarists but check your
| local laws.
|
| Or the California Roach
|
| If you don't mind natives from California, the fathead
| minnow, or the American Flagfish are two small US
| extremely hard species. First stands poor oxygen levels
| and complicated alcaline water. The second is from
| Florida and a really cool species, much more interesting
| to watch than a dumb mosquito fish. They will eat
| mosquitoes and algae also.
|
| All this species are small fishes (growing less than 10cm
| normally) so will fit in most garden ponds. Just one
| species in a small or medium-sized pond. Pupfish species
| shouldn't be mixed to keep the genetic lines pure.
| Goldfishes disturb the mud and make the water turn green.
| zevv wrote:
| One of the delights I discovered over the last few years is
| constructing and maintaining sweet water "jarrariums"; I take
| whatever glassware I fancy - pots, jars, glasses - collect some
| soil and plants from an interesting pond I find somewhere, put it
| in and just let it do it's thing - don't interfere, just wait.
|
| It's amazing how much life lifts in with just that bit of soil; I
| have a few jars from three years ago (that I leave mostly closed)
| which have shown multiple generations of woodlice, water snails,
| little mussels, spiders, water fleas, beetles, worms. Sometimes,
| the whole pot turns opaque green for a few days, and then a few
| days later it clears up and I find some new life in there I have
| never seen before.
|
| Highly enjoyable to have on your desk or in the window sill!
| zevv wrote:
| And of course there's a reddit for that:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Jarrariums/
| stcredzero wrote:
| I suspect hermetically sealed enclosed mini ecosystems are
| going to take on tremendous economic and technological
| importance as we move out into the solar system.
|
| I've started to wonder why there aren't more closed loop
| experiments out there. These would be very cheap to make! (By
| space research standards.) A closed water loop habitat could be
| built in the middle of isolated land, like West Texas. Go from
| there to incrementally incorporating more of an ecosystem. Try
| and recycle the air last, of course, as that is potentially
| life threatening.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I sort of fell into making one of these as a kid. I had a left
| a jar of water on the window sill in my bedroom absentmindedly.
| I noticed later that a wasp had fallen into it and drowned.
| Then I noticed it was starting to get fuzzy. Then a couple
| flies also fell into it. I thought it was interesting, so I
| threw a bit of algae from a fish tank in and sealed the jar
| closed. It grew into a big green blob and stayed green and
| "healthy" for at least twenty years, certainly well after I'd
| left home. But one day I went back to my parent's house and it
| was gone.
| ilamont wrote:
| The article is correct in my experience. If you build a pond,
| wildlife will come. I would only add that having a simple pump to
| create a little flow and oxygenation really helps reduce algae
| and mosquitoes. If the pond is deep enough (18"/50cm), it will
| frustrate raccoons.
|
| I've done two small fish ponds using heavy duty rigid plastic
| liners expecting only the fish (koi and shubunkin) would enjoy
| it. We live less than ~10 miles/~15 km from downtown Boston.
|
| We were surprised to see the second pond, which is next to the
| north side of our basement and on a small hill, gets all kinds of
| animals and birds coming to drink. Racoons, possum, fox,
| squirrels, and many types of small birds. Without fail, one or
| two tree frogs find it every summer and settle in on the water
| plant we put out there (taro) in a semi-submerged pot.
|
| The frogs disappear in the early autumn. Before the first hard
| frost, we bring the taro plant inside in a bucket, and place it
| next to a sunny window for the next 6 months. By mid-December the
| pond freezes over except where we have a small pump running. The
| fish go dormant at the bottom, under the ice.
|
| Then in spring it starts back up again. The ice melts, the fish
| come back to life, and the animals return to drink. I am going to
| put the taro plant back out in May, and once again the pond will
| be the center of life in our side yard.
| wil421 wrote:
| My pond attracts a lot of wildlife too. Frogs, animals, flying
| water insects, and even a couple crawfish came from a small
| creek nearby.
|
| What do you use for soil in your taro plant?
|
| We are much farther South and don't have to deal with ice. I've
| been trying to put fish in it but the chipmunks turned the pond
| liner into Swiss cheese in some places.
| ilamont wrote:
| The taro plant is still in its original planter, with the
| same soil that was in there when we purchased it 15 years
| ago. I think we added a few small stones to the top (which
| now are covered with moss above the waterline). It's an
| incredibly hardy plant, and if it could find soil or mud
| nearby it would expand for sure ... there are always runners
| creeping out from the pot, and little baby taros sprouting
| around the moss. I would think where you are in the south it
| would do really well.
|
| Kind of surprised about the chipmunks. We have them too but
| the liner has never been damaged. OTOH it's pretty heavy duty
| rigid PVC.
| ilamont wrote:
| Here's a video I did three years ago showing how the small pond
| is set up. It's probably about 4 feet long (~130 cm) and with a
| deep spot of about 2 feet (~60 cm) ... if it's too shallow the
| fish would die, either from racoons getting them in the summer
| or deep freeze in the winter stopping the pump and possibly
| freezing the water all the way through.
|
| https://youtu.be/8ExfrhjpMp4?si=dJ1pOaw-zLA-Rvk2
|
| FWIW we are only using tap water (which comes all the way from
| the Quabbin reservoir in western mass) and rain water. I think
| at the beginning we used some sort of algae treatment once or
| twice during the summer but in the past 5 years it hasn't been
| necessary as long as the pump is creating a bubbling flow and
| there aren't too many fish, usually no more than 3 or 4 small
| to medium goldfish/carp varieties ... koi, shibunkin, and
| comets.
| Jorslu wrote:
| Sincerely, thank you for the explanations and youtube video.
| They were GREAT!
| nightowl_games wrote:
| From what I've read, winterizing your pond and making it
| healthy enough for fish to survive the winter is difficult. Did
| you find it challenging? Many failures?
| ilamont wrote:
| It wasn't hard at all as long as the pond is deep enough per
| my earlier comments and the fish are not freshwater tropicals
| (we've had comets, shibunkin, and koi make it through without
| any issue, including deep freezes of 10F/-10C lasting a week
| or two). Keep the pump on all winter for oxygen. Remove the
| taro to a filled bucket and stick it on a sunny shelf inside.
|
| Once the temp drops below 40 degrees F (~5C) the fish go
| dormant, usually under some dead leaves at the bottom or in
| the cinderblock we have at the deep end. When ice forms they
| will be fine, as the bubbling pump keeps an open spot for
| oxygen (it should be bubbling about 1 inch above the water
| line and not splashing outside the pond liner). If it's a
| deep freeze and the pump forms an ice bubble, break it open
| with a hammer. The rest of the ice can stay on the pond
| surface.
| aidos wrote:
| We inherited a couple of ponds when we bought our place 4
| years back. One has fish in.
|
| To our surprise, every winter the pond freezes over and the
| fish are fine come spring. In fact they're thriving and we
| don't touch the pond at all - it doesn't even have a pump.
|
| The other pond could definitely do with cleaning out, but
| again it's teaming with wildlife. There's not a huge window
| between when the newts leave for the summer and when it
| freezes in winter. By the time it thaws and we think to do
| something about it the newts are back again.
| downut wrote:
| No problems with Herons? Here in suburban Atlanta I have
| several different kinds visit our big pond daily, including
| Great Blue. Fun to watch them fish.
|
| Your pond looks lovely.
| ilamont wrote:
| Thanks! The pond is next to a house and there is tree cover,
| which I think deters herons. But the Charles River is just a
| few hundred yards away, and the herons are very active there
| in the shallows and swampy coves.
|
| Our main problem is racoons. At night they come to fish with
| their claws in the shallow areas of the pond.
| voisin wrote:
| I have seen people online dig a pit, let pigs hang out in the pit
| and in a process called "gleying" the pigs seal the pit making it
| watertight.
|
| I have some acreage and would love to try this out to create a
| pond, but there are never any real good details on this - what
| areas it works best, etc etc.
|
| Anyone here have experience with making their own pond without
| using a liner?
| ljf wrote:
| Do it on the lowest point on your land - is there anywhere that
| naturally gets boggy and damp in the rain?
|
| I lived on a small farm as a child and at the bottom of the
| land someone had dug a basic well near a very small spring. The
| spring was really just a muddy puddle, but over time from the
| sheep walking back and forth to drink from the puddle, it
| slowly became a small pond. As we scaled back the number of
| sheep we had, the pond slowly disappeared again.
|
| What is the soil like on your land, do any springs already
| occur or are there other natural ponds?
| pvaldes wrote:
| You either had clay in the soil, or need to add a thick layer
| of clay for that. Then you use machines to compact the clay
| layer, remove air and made it watertight. Put water, will turn
| into a brown mess, wait for the clay sinking eventually, done.
|
| If you don't have clay, ducks can provide manure that turns
| into fine mud with the same properties and pigs can provide the
| compact work, but will taint the water later with nitrogen.
| Machines are better.
| 01100011 wrote:
| I ran a couple container-ponds for a year at my old apartment. It
| was great until the racoons discovered it. They would dig up the
| bottom and try to eat the fish and shrimp. Otherwise it was a
| rewarding experience.
|
| I used medaka(ricefish) and a couple airline filters fed with a
| single air pump run into a splitter to control mosquitoes. I used
| an aquarium heater for a bit but the electric bill ended up being
| quite high because it ran too often. You're better off moving the
| fish inside in the winter if you're in a colder climate. I'm in
| San Diego and probably could have kept white cloud minnows all
| year but I was into medaka at the time. I also had a large
| population of neocaridina shrimp and aquatic snails that I hoped
| would control algae(they did not).
|
| I got plenty of birds visiting, and the ponds became a favorite
| watering hole of the local bees. For whatever reason, SoCal bees
| are not aggressive, so I didn't mind the 20+ bees constantly
| filling up while standing on my floating plants.
|
| I did end up buying daphnia and moina online since they never
| colonized the ponds naturally.
|
| I also had a couple "pond jars" to maintain the daphnia/moina
| population. Those regularly attracted mosquito larvae which ended
| up as food for the medaka as well as my indoor aquarium fish. I
| figured the jars were a form of mosquito control since the larvae
| never reached adulthood.
|
| I initially topped off the ponds with 0ppm, deionized water that
| I used for my indoor aquarium(I ran a hippie tank with 0 water
| changes so I needed pure water to top-off). Eventually I switched
| to using a filter housing filled with "catalytic carbon" which
| supposedly handles both chlorine and chloramines. I was scooping
| out enough floating plants regularly to balance the incoming
| minerals from the tap water used to top it off.
|
| I'd do it again at some point when my daughter is old enough to
| appreciate it. But next time I'll use some protection against
| critters digging up things. One nice companion to all of this is
| a $300 chinese microscope. It's fun to see the pond life under
| magnification.
| graphe wrote:
| https://youtube.com/@journeytomicro sadly it's closing down.
| rotexo wrote:
| Almost 20 years ago I helped my mom make a hole for a deep pond
| in her backyard--a previous occupant had a concrete shallow pond,
| and her attempts to add goldfish only resulted in turning it into
| a buffet for the raccoons. The deeper one just needed pond liner
| and a pump, and it was good to go. Now the only thing that can
| get to the goldfish is an occasional heron, which is far more
| enchanting than raccoons. Also the gulf coast toads make for a
| wonderful spring/early summer soundtrack.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| Sorry goldfish but having a heron hunt in my backyard is worth
| your sacrifice
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| Been looking recently at some of the sad, under used pocket parks
| in my city that are mostly scrubby grass fields of no interest to
| anyone but dogs, with a few scattered trees at the edge and been
| wondering: could this be better as a pond?
|
| Seems like it would be better for insects and birds.
|
| This seems like a pretty small thing that municipalities could do
| that would create a lot of visual interest and help birds.
| sowbug wrote:
| If you don't have the space for a pond, you can grow interesting
| critters in a jar on the windowsill. And if you don't have time
| for that, you can veg out to the Life In Jars channel:
| https://youtube.com/@LifeinJars
| ljf wrote:
| Pond water is perfect for using in a DIY laser microscope
| https://civilpedia.org/p/?t=Laser-Microscope&pid=30
|
| All you need is something to 'hold' a drip of water - I pipette
| or syringe is best but it can be done with a chopstick, a laser
| (any colour) and a white wall or screen tk project the image on.
|
| Suspend the drip, shine the laser through the drip and see the
| amazing tiny things living in the water.
|
| I've not done it for a while, I better try this out again soon,
| the kids will love it.
| modeless wrote:
| It's amazing how much more biodiversity you get in a local area
| just from having a small garden around. Easily ten times the
| number of different species of bugs and butterflies and various
| things. Manicured yards with grass, a couple of non-native
| flowering plants and a tree or two are practically dead places in
| comparison.
|
| If I ever have a yard of my own I'm going to do all native plant
| landscaping and some raised beds for edible plants.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| I even got a lot on a 4th floor balcony. Hummingbirds, bees,
| butterflies, ladybugs, etc. I just put out some flowering
| plants from the region
| Guest71022 wrote:
| Kev has a great site and videos on all things ponds ranging from
| mini container ponds to full on landscaping ponds with waterfalls
| and things.
|
| https://ozponds.com/about/
|
| His specialty though is "bog filters". These are a natural
| solution to keeping pond water healthy and crystal clear. They
| work even for small container ponds.
|
| I followed his tutorials and dug a 8x5m lined pond with a 3x3m
| bog filter and a mini stream connecting them. It's the highlight
| of our garden.
|
| Highly recommend.
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