[HN Gopher] Hertz is ditching even more electric cars
___________________________________________________________________
Hertz is ditching even more electric cars
Author : belter
Score : 38 points
Date : 2024-04-27 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (qz.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (qz.com)
| jseliger wrote:
| Last time this came up I wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39934120:
|
| _A few weeks ago I rented a Model 3 from Hertz in San Diego, and
| the car didn 't come with an SAE J1772 Charging Adapter (this
| covers most level 2 stations). That's crazy. I was staying
| primarily at UCSD for cancer treatment, and there are a million
| level 2 chargers that I couldn't access without the SAE J1772
| dongle. The Tesla my wife and I have always has a SAE J1772
| dongle in the center console. I complained about the lack of this
| essential part._
|
| Hertz would charge for the dongle and then refund upon its
| return. The car itself was good!
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| The question is what will consumers be ditching Hertz for?
| Electric cars as an economical proposition have already proved
| themselves. That debate is pretty much over. So, why can't Hertz
| make it work? And who else can disrupt them and how quickly?
| tuatoru wrote:
| Repair costs, negative sentiment from customers, much lower
| than expected residual value. Those are why.
| cjk2 wrote:
| As a regular Hertz customer, I will still use Hertz. They are
| mostly zero hassle, even that time I destroyed a Fiat 500 :)
|
| I never rented an EV from them and never would because the
| charging logistics are a pain in the ass at return. Out of
| petrol? 10 minutes, run it through the car wash at the same
| time, sorted. Out of charge? Oh I'm right next to one of the
| biggest airports in Europe and all the chargers are rammed. No
| thanks.
| echoangle wrote:
| What happens when you return it with a lower charge than when
| you got it? Don't you just have to pay the difference? Is
| that more expensive than charging it yourself?
| resolutebat wrote:
| Yup, same as returning an ICE car with a half-empty tank.
| patja wrote:
| It's a flat fee. I forget if it was $25 or $35.
|
| They were pricing EVs at a discount for a trip I took
| through Atlanta last month. Still came out ahead with the
| recharge fee.
| cjk2 wrote:
| Waaaay more expensive.
| khuey wrote:
| Do Europeans really return their rental cars washed? The only
| time I've ever washed a rental car in the US was when I drove
| it off paved roads in violation of the terms of the rental
| agreement and needed to hide the evidence.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I've never washed a rental car, and I've never heard of
| anyone doing so.
|
| (Fortunately, last time I drove one on a dirt road there
| was a heavy rain storm the next day.)
|
| </European>
| ghaff wrote:
| I've never ever washed then though I probably risked a
| cleaning fee. I've returned some very (externally) dirty
| cars that were in a bunch of forest roads though mostly not
| really off-road.
| cjk2 wrote:
| I mostly do because I tend to make them all shitty.
| lm28469 wrote:
| What makes sense at an individual level doesn't necessarily
| makes sense at that scale.
|
| The only time I rent cars is for long trips, I'm about to rent
| one next month actually, 1200km, no chance I'll get an EV that
| at most will give me 400km of range
|
| The fact that anything above a fender bender is almost always a
| total write off probably doest help either
| bdavbdav wrote:
| The reason cited was the depreciation and reliability. Taking
| them at face value, presumably all other rental co's would be
| hit with the same issues, potentially to a greater degree
| without having the buying power of Hertz
| Stevvo wrote:
| Hertz doesn't have to pay for gasoline; the customer does. So
| they loose the main economic advantage of electric cars.
| cm2187 wrote:
| And you can't really show up back at the airport with a car
| fully charged.
| jakereps wrote:
| This comment feels so disconnected from reality that I can only
| imagine you possibly live in a bubble of EV owners. To offer my
| anecdotal observation, where I live, I rarely ever see an EV.
| Maybe a single one on the road per day, if that. Various
| dealerships have told me everyone getting one around the area
| recently has been returning them.
|
| While on a time limited event, like a vacation, where I may
| need a rental car, I have no desire to sit and wait for my car
| to charge and waste my time, over a 45 second gas fill up.
| Hotels don't universally offer charging ports (or enough of
| them, if it even does). EVs have a very long way to go to being
| generally useful for the non homeowner who doesn't have a
| charging station in their own garage.
| _fizz_buzz_ wrote:
| > To offer my anecdotal observation, where I live, I rarely
| ever see an EV.
|
| Where do you live? I live in a regular German town, nothing I
| would consider particular techie, and I see so many electric
| cars. If you only see one ev per day, I think that you might
| live more in a bubble than OP.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| i mean urban geographies are for the most part a bubble.
|
| I could see even in different parts of the US wildly
| different EV adoption rates. They're very common in Seattle
| but I think I would be surprised if I saw too many of them
| in Boise. US states are often the size of European
| countries.
| Symbiote wrote:
| 83% of the US population lives in an urban area, it's the
| rural dwellers in the "bubble".
| bobthepanda wrote:
| each urban region is its own bubble. Spokane looks
| different from Houston which looks different from Detroit
| and Baltimore, etc.
|
| any company doing targeting based on just vaguely urban
| vs. rural would be in for a terrible return on investment
| ghaff wrote:
| They're pretty common in the Bay Area but, anecdotally
| while they're becoming more common in the Boston suburbs
| they're still a fairly unusual sighting other than at a
| charging station next to a supermarket I shop--which
| typically has 1-2 cars at it.
| jakereps wrote:
| One is certainly underestimating. I only mean some
| insignificant number of vehicles. Far from the "proven"
| statement about people vying for EV rentals in the OP
| comment. I realize now that I shouldn't have put an
| explicit number on an internet comment, as now that number
| is the target to come after me for.
| Symbiote wrote:
| There's not much point grumbling about an anecdote and
| supplying another.
|
| The EU as a whole has 1.68% EVs out of all passenger cars,
| though it's about 15% of new cars. [1]
|
| Here in Denmark BEVs are 5.68% of all passenger cars, and I'm
| sure it's higher where I live in Copenhagen. Over half of the
| taxis and buses are EVs, plus a good proportion of private
| vehicle. I won't guess, but I do see many EVs every time I go
| outside.
|
| [1] https://alternative-fuels-
| observatory.ec.europa.eu/transport...
| jakereps wrote:
| Agreed, just was too lazy for research and the OP EV praise
| was eye-roll inducing, so I just quickly offered an
| alternative perspective. Thanks for the actual numbers!
| xanathar wrote:
| I have an EV, no gas car and I'm super happy about that.
|
| And yet when I needed to rent a car, I rented a gasoline one.
|
| Why?
|
| Because car rental is pretty much the worst case for an EV.
|
| If I rent a car I'm likely abroad, with zero knowledge of the
| recharge network and often not great options in terms of costs
| because most are national (at least, here in Europe, only
| notable exception being Ionity).
|
| I'm also likely to drive long distances, with no routine, and
| little planning capacity.
|
| And whatever other reason one would pick an EV for (noise,
| pollution, fuel cost, one pedal drive comfort etc.) they are
| all negligible when applied to a 2 weeks vacation.
| ok123456 wrote:
| > Electric cars as an economic proposition have already proved
| themselves. That debate is pretty much over.
|
| Have they? It seems that when rubber meets the road, so to
| speak, it is not a simple one-to-one replacement for gas or
| diesel vehicles. The day-to-day ownership is more complicated,
| planning your itinerary and day around sparse public charging
| and owning property to have at-home charging. Also, the long-
| term ownership, having low resale value due to the high repair
| costs of the electric drivetrain and low overall repairability,
| makes ownership a poor proposition for most average people.
|
| Electric cars have been on the market for over a decade. Show
| me one that someone has kept past 200,000 miles. Meanwhile, you
| can find Toyotas and Hondas well past that benchmark all day on
| Marketplace.
| resolutebat wrote:
| As requested: https://www.fleetandleasing.com/leasing-
| news-1/high-mileage-...
| bdcravens wrote:
| > Show me one that someone has kept past 200,000 miles.
| Meanwhile, you can find Toyotas and Hondas well past that
| benchmark all day on Marketplace.
|
| Even among gas cars, those who buy new rarely keep cars that
| long. The average is about 8 years. I've owned several Hondas
| and Toyotas, and I've never hit 100k on one. (even though I
| have no doubt any of them would still be on the road) (My
| current car is a Kia EV6)
| cogman10 wrote:
| I'm at 130,000 now, I'll let you know when I roll over the
| 200,000 mark.
| foooorsyth wrote:
| Vehicle rental periods are inherently time constrained. If
| you're on a business trip or vacation the last thing you want
| to be doing is waiting for your vehicle to charge. And, you
| inherently also often do not have access to private charging
| infrastructure which means you actively have to go out of your
| way to find a safe and reliable charger. And you have to do
| this in a strange place that you don't know. Home charging is
| the critical factor that makes life with an EV appealing.
|
| Vacations are so time constrained that a huge % of ICE renters
| opt to just get hosed on gas up fees that rental companies
| charge instead of going to any ubiquitous gas station before
| dropping the car off. Car drop off with a flight to catch is
| always a race against time.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I wonder if the economics for the rental provider don't work as
| well: rentals probably get in more collisions (infrequent
| drivers + unfamiliar environment) and that's a problem if they
| can't get them back on the road quickly.
| henrikschroder wrote:
| The economics for rental cars relies on resale value after
| one to two years, frequency of damage, and cost of repair.
|
| All of these things suck for EVs in general, and Teslas in
| particular. The recent price cuts have demolished the resale
| value way more than any other car, rented EVs get damaged
| more frequently because people are unfamiliar with their
| behaviour and torque curves and acceleration, and the cost of
| repair is atrocious for Teslas, since their service
| infrastructure is severely lacking, i.e. it takes forever to
| get parts.
|
| And _on top of that_ , rental customers do not want an EV in
| an unfamiliar place. Everyone can find a gas station and fill
| it up before returning, but having to schedule your entire
| trip around charging infrastructure is a complete waste of
| time.
|
| The only rental customers it makes sense for is people who
| already have an EV, love it, and know how to live with. But
| the problem is that Hertz was throwing the Teslas at
| customers willy-nilly as some kind of "luxury upgrade", with
| crap results.
| ghaff wrote:
| I could see renting a Tesla once for the experience but,
| yeah, it would be unfamiliar both in the handling and the
| electric gee-gas. Hell, a lot of non-core ICE are already
| sufficiently non-standard I avoid them when I can in a
| rental.
| jajko wrote:
| It may be over for you, but for most people it isn't. I won't
| pay the price of new car, any car, ever, even if I can afford
| it easily. Its just silly when I can pay 20% of premium BMW
| with say 90k km and use it for another 10 years or 150k km,
| with very few repairs needed (granted, this depends on the
| model but knock on the wood this worked for 15 years so far).
| Used electric cars comfortable for a family of 4, with bigger
| trunk, can drive at least 800km fully loaded in winter in 1 go
| without ever thinking about battery state, or chargers network?
| Please show me one and its price.
|
| Its often the second biggest investment in one's life, after
| housing. But unlike housing you just throw money at it,
| expecting pure massive loss, while gaining service. Service new
| car offers is 100% of used one which is well maintained, minus
| all potential initial recalls. Its even better for peace of
| mind - small dents and damage on new car _hurts_ mentally so
| one becomes a slave to freakin ' piece of plastic and metal, on
| older one its meh category and I focus on important parts being
| in good state and high quality wheels connecting me to Earth,
| while driving much more premium equipped cars than comparable
| electric ones (granted, ie Porsche is better but at what crazy
| price).
|
| What electric cars bring within same requirements is 2-4x more
| expensive just to purchase, and TCO are stratospheric for what
| I am willing to accept.
|
| Another point is environmental impact on all that battery
| chemistry destroying ecosystems of some poor countries electric
| drivers often never even heard of nor visited, it ain't greener
| car to manufacture by any means, albeit greener to run for
| sure.
|
| So there you have it, the reason 80% of ICE driver's reasons to
| stay where they are, at least for another decade or two. And
| that's just purely civilian family transport. What comes after
| those decades we can discuss at that time, nobody knows what
| situation will be at that time.
| alwa wrote:
| Isn't this specifically a case of Hertz having estimated the
| economical proposition as proven and positive, and now having
| to fix that miscalculation as the actual economic results have
| rolled in?
| bdcravens wrote:
| EVs are pricey versus comparably equipped cars, and this is
| reflected in the rates. (I rented two cars on Turo, a
| 4-cylinder ICE and an EV, and the ICE had a better ROI)
|
| Owning an EV requires some compromises, but you figure it out:
| you get a charger for home, you learn where the chargers are
| and what the waits are like, etc. For a traveler renting a car,
| this is bigger challenge. (I say this being a two-EV household)
| dude187 wrote:
| > That debate is pretty much over.
|
| In what world and in what way? I don't know anybody who would
| rent an electric car and I certainly would not
| IshKebab wrote:
| Yeah, electric cars definitely don't make sense for car hire. The
| main advantage of electric car ownership is cheaper fuel costs
| long term if you charge at home overnight. That obviously isn't
| going to happen for a hire car, and even if it did the fuel cost
| of a hire car is insignificant compared to the cost of the hire
| itself.
|
| On top of that, charging is still way less convenient than
| refueling an ICE car, and when you hire a car it's usually in a
| situation where you can't afford inconvenience.
|
| I think electric cars are the future and hopefully I'll never buy
| an ICE car again, but car hire has got to be the _last_ domain to
| transition surely?
| apgwoz wrote:
| We use Zipcar for a second car at the moment and the closest
| one is an EV. I've only used it to go (at most) 10 miles round
| trip, but I've picked it up at 15% charge before and had
| anxiety the whole time... I agree that EV is a poor choice for
| rental.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Can you not see the charge amount before renting it?
|
| The equivalent services in Copenhagen show the state of
| charge of the cars on the map, before paying anything.
| (There's also free minutes for leaving the car plugged in to
| a charger at the end, and perhaps because of that it's rare
| for them to be at a low charge.)
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| This has gotta be the ultimate EV gaslighting I've ever
| seen. You're clearly not doing EV right, GP!
| Symbiote wrote:
| The FAQ on Zipcar's website says "Our Electric Vehicles
| are charged overnight by our team, so they're good to go
| whenever you are" -- but this isn't the case for the GP,
| so the failing is with Zipcar.
| bitmasher9 wrote:
| Last domain? Maybe not, but it could be among one of the last.
|
| I think heavy loads, cross country, and extremely rural are
| likely to be among the holdouts.
| thriftwy wrote:
| There's also the (para)military. I can't imagine an electric
| Toyota pickup performing in a warzone. Maybe that's why
| Toyota is not making the leap.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > extremely rural
|
| Depends on how "extreme" extreme is.
|
| Certainly affordable wouldn't work for rural because range is
| really needed. However, it's doable now with 300+ range EVs
| (assuming there's a city within 100/150 miles of your
| location).
|
| One thing that would change this quickly is if V2H ends up
| taking off. Then you can ditch your backup generator and use
| your EV in the event of a power outage. For very rural places
| or off grid places that could be really valuable.
|
| But totally agree about the other categories.
| cm2187 wrote:
| The article says the cars are unreliable. I thought one of the
| selling points of electric cars was reliability over an ICE
| engine. Anyone knows what they are refering to?
| pitaj wrote:
| My understanding is that they're better not in reliability,
| but in lower maintenance (oil replacement etc).
| cogman10 wrote:
| > I thought one of the selling points of electric cars was
| reliability over an ICE engine.
|
| They are if you take car of them. Hertz notoriously did not
| have chargers in their lots and I've read plenty of stories
| of EV renters getting an EV with 20% of the battery.
|
| If they are letting the cars sit and discharge to 0, yeah,
| that will look like them being "unreliable" and will
| ultimately wear the battery.
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| _> They are if you take car of them._
|
| That also applies to ICEs.
| cogman10 wrote:
| ICE are more reliable than ICE if you take care of them?
| cogman10 wrote:
| It depends on the situation.
|
| It would work great with 2 things in place
|
| 1. The rental company has car chargers on the lot and keeps
| their cars charged at a reasonable level.
|
| 2. You are staying at a hotel/location with car chargers.
|
| If those two things are in play, then electric rental cars make
| a TON of sense. Even shorter range ones as you are likely
| mostly puttering around the location where you are renting. In
| that case, you are likely to want to do the "drive around all
| day, charge while you sleep" that most EV owners do.
|
| Unfortunately, while some hotels do have chargers, they tend to
| be the more expensive hotels and they tend to only have 1 or 2
| slots for charging.
|
| > On top of that, charging is still way less convenient than
| refueling an ICE car
|
| Really depends. Charging is more convenient if you the place
| you park your car has a charger. Charging is less convenient if
| you are driving long distances or you need to recharge with no
| room for downtime.
| ghaff wrote:
| I suspect fewer people putter around a location though. At
| one point if I was just doing a trip with some stops in core
| Silicon Valley I'd have automatically rented. Generally more
| likely to Uber it these days.
| dgfitz wrote:
| I think you're underestimating the number of people who fly
| into an airport and their destination is 1-4 hours away by
| car afterwards.
|
| Edit: and their hotel is a solid 45 minutes away from their
| work site.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > I think you're underestimating the number of people who
| fly into an airport and their destination is 1-4 hours away
| by car afterwards.
|
| I probably am, because I don't think that's super common.
| Airports are everywhere.
|
| Even for my extreme rural hometown, there's a commercial
| airport 45 minutes away (Though, granted, we'd go to the
| airport 2 hours away because it's bigger and we'd have to
| fly there anyways to get to the 45 minute airport).
|
| The full flights and large planes I've been on haven't been
| to Pocatello Idaho. Which is what gives me the impression
| that people aren't typically flying to rural destinations.
| On the other hand, a flight to Atlanta, Ronald Reagan, or
| Dallas are always filled to the brim.
| williamdclt wrote:
| > the fuel cost of a hire car is insignificant compared to the
| cost of the hire itself.
|
| That's not true everywhere. I'm currently on holidays: the car
| rental for 6d was 130euros, insurance 40, and gas will be about
| 60 for 10-15h of driving. Gas doesn't dominate the price but
| it's far from insignificant, and it only gets worse as price
| increases
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car since
| you're not looking for charring stations along the route
| every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge.
|
| Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or
| frictionless. At home yeah, but at stations not so much. Not
| compared to filling up with gas and being on your way in less
| than 5 minutes.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car
| since you're not looking for charring stations along the
| route every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge.
|
| While I'm sure it happens, that's never been my experience.
| You plug your trip into the car's navigation system and
| it'll plan out the charge stops for you. It's quiet
| frictionless. Tesla's is really good as it will even plan
| on sending you to less busy charging stations vs more busy
| ones (and reroute if that changes).
|
| > Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or
| frictionless.
|
| Depends on the network. Tesla's isn't terribly expensive
| and is extremely frictionless. Electrify America is
| horseshit, both on cost and ease of use.
|
| This is a solvable problem.
|
| > Not compared to filling up with gas and being on your way
| in less than 5 minutes.
|
| Behavior ends up changing here if you road trip with an EV.
| Rather than just getting fuel then going somewhere else to
| eat you'll usually charge while you eat, use the restroom,
| or go for a walk. If you really don't have anything else to
| do, you'll probably just catch a tv show on your phone.
|
| That coveted 5 minutes ends up just not being a big deal
| because you are multitasking with the charging. (Which for
| me is typically 20->30 minutes).
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| _> Tesla's is really good ..._
|
| _> Tesla's isn't terribly expensive and is extremely
| frictionless..._
|
| I'm sure Tesla is great, but my ICE is excellent in both
| those categories and cost me 6000 Euros used in mint
| condition with only 4 years and 40k KM of usage. Which
| used Tesla can I get in that budget?
| cogman10 wrote:
| K. That wasn't a part of your original post. Did you want
| me to start debating the economics of buying EVs?
|
| If I were to advise someone for the best EV to buy, I'd
| probably suggest holding off for 5 or 10 more years. Even
| if I were suggesting a new EV to buy, I'd suggest holding
| off for 1 maybe 2 years in north america because
| everything is switching over to NACS.
|
| If we are talking about someone in the EU, I'd still
| probably suggest waiting a couple of years if you can,
| but if you can't you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for
| roughly that 6000 euros and that mileage. If you can wait
| a few more years, especially in the EU, then the used
| market options are going to explode. I'd probably look at
| some of the Chinese second hand EVs as they are already
| pretty cheap and will likely be super cheap used in a few
| years. And if you are in the EU, EVs that are roughly the
| same prices as an ICE are going to make a lot of
| financial sense because of the high petrol prices.
|
| Would I suggest someone get a Tesla today? Eh, depends. I
| probably will not get one for my next vehicle, but I plan
| on running this one into the ground (currently at 130,000
| miles and I plan to keep going until something gives). In
| the US, I'd suggest today you take a good look at the
| iconiq if you are buying new. But again, in the US, I'd
| strongly suggest waiting for a couple of years at this
| moment.
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| _> Did you want me to start debating the economics of
| buying EVs?_
|
| Well, EV growth and adoption is all about economics (can
| you afford them in your business/lifestyle to replace
| your ICE or not?) Herz's decision to drop EVs is about
| economics (is it profitable for them or not?). So yeah,
| Economics are very important in this discussion so why
| not talk about it?
|
| You pointing out Tesla, the most premium EV brand with
| the best chagrin network, as the competition to cheap
| ICEs is like telling peasants who can't afford bread that
| they should eat cake. EU voters aren't gonna be happy
| with this come 2035 if the EV market isn't full of cheap
| models with long range by then and we might see an
| exertion of the ICE life, especially since the post 2022
| conditions has decimated the purchasing power and
| disposable income of the average European. We might have
| counted our chickens before they were hatched on this
| one.
|
| _> you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for roughly that
| 6000 euros and that mileage_
|
| Unfortunately, the Leaf's range is pitiful compared to
| even the most econobox ICE. And range is very important
| to EU buyers.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > You pointing out Tesla, the most premium EV brand with
| the best chagrin network
|
| I pointed out 2 very specific aspects of tesla, the
| charge network and the ability to route plan with
| charging stops. 2 things any EV brand can pull off.
|
| And, particularly in the case of the EU, 1 thing that
| affects all EV brands as there are public charging access
| laws which mean anyone can use the tesla charging
| network. It's not just for the uber wealthy. I did not
| say or suggest in my post that "lol, the poors should
| just buy teslas" as you suggest. Rather, I rebutted 2
| specific points you made, that you have to search for
| charging stations which are far apart (not true in the
| EU, btw) and that the charging experience is always
| terrible.
|
| You then went on a wild tangent about how much it costs
| to buy EVs, which was completely out of scope of the
| prior discussion and goalpost moving.
|
| > as the competition to cheap ICEs is like telling
| peasants who can't afford bread that they should eat
| cake.
|
| Like, sorry, I did not nor have I suggested that the
| peasants need to go out and buy EVs. Nor am I suggesting
| that owning one isn't something that today requires more
| money (as I outlined in my previous post). Owning an EV
| is not the right move for everyone yet every EV debate is
| framed as "If it's not good for everyone it's not good
| for anyone".
|
| > EU voters aren't gonna be happy with this come 2035 if
| the EV market isn't full of cheap models with long range
| by then.
|
| I agree. It's still a relatively young industry. My
| suspicion is that by 2035 things will be a lot more
| competitive as battery manufacturing has been growing
| exponentially and we are starting to see EV sales lag.
| Exponential growth in a supply with a lag in demand
| translates to lower prices. I can't predict exactly when
| (or if) this will happen. It's my best guess that it
| will.
|
| > Unfortunately, the Leaf's range is pitiful compared to
| even the most econobox ICE. And range is very important.
|
| Important to some, not to all. I wouldn't buy it as a
| primary car because range is important to me. As a
| secondary car, sure, it'd work great as a commuter.
|
| But again, in case you want to reframe what I'm saying in
| a less charitable way, I'm not saying "EVs are for
| everyone and everyone should own them". Nor am I saying
| "everyone should buy a tesla". I'm not even saying "Used
| EVs are fine and there's no reason why someone shouldn't
| buy them."
|
| We can both agree that ICE boxes aren't without their
| drawbacks right? We can both agree that there are pros
| and cons to EVs and ICE right? Or do you just want to say
| that there is never a good reason to buy an EV?
| m000 wrote:
| "it'll plan out the charge stops", "depends on the
| network", "you'll probably just catch a tv show on your
| phone".
|
| All these combined are a _far-cry_ from frictionless. And
| good luck if you venture out of the trodden path.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > And good luck if you venture out of the trodden path.
|
| My family lives out of the trodden path. I visit them
| often in my EV. I've been all over rural Idaho and Oregon
| in my EV.
|
| There are certainly some places too rural for an EV, but
| there's not many places more rural than rural Idaho and
| oregon.
| dude187 wrote:
| > If you really don't have anything else to do, you'll
| probably just catch a tv show on your phone.
|
| That's not changing behaviors, that's distracting
| yourself because refueling takes forever for an EV
| cogman10 wrote:
| How is distracting yourself while refueling not a change
| in behavior? What do you define as "change in behavior"?
| darrylb42 wrote:
| That seems cheap for gas. 15h driving ~6l/100km 90l of gas.
| That would be over $200 in gas for me.
| Glyptodon wrote:
| Fuel costs aren't insignificant, low MPG cars can have fuel be
| a solid % of the overall rental cost. I think for a moderately
| efficient (30ish MPG) rental I used for an afternoon a few
| weeks ago fuel was ~15% of total cost to me. Like $55 in rental
| fees, $10 in fuel. A rental a had last year for multiple days
| was closer to like 20%, but I got stuck with a gas guzzler.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Last week on a trip to Florida I rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz.
|
| It was in abysmal shape. Both tires on the left had been
| installed backwards, with the inside on the outside, and
| something was badly wrong with the front left wheel, I suspect
| the rotor was warped because it scraping, loudly, with every
| rotation.
|
| I read about Hertz having problems with EV maintenance but
| experience leads me to believe that it's nothing to do with being
| EVs. They're simply not maintaining them. I told them about the
| problems on return, and the guy just shrugged.
| WalterBright wrote:
| EVs are only practical if you have a garage and can charge it
| overnight.
|
| (Outdoor chargers don't work because thieves steal the copper
| wires.)
| bdcravens wrote:
| I agree. I didn't buy my first EV until I bought my house. (And
| now we are all in, a two-EV household)
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| Forget about stealing copper, a lot of outdoor public chargers
| are just defective. Either the connector, the charger, the
| payment system or the app is wonky. Compared to the speed, ease
| and reliability of filling up a gas tank, public charging an EV
| is hell.
|
| Until we fix this, people without a house and garage to have
| their own charger are going get screwed badly by the forced EV
| transition.
| daft_pink wrote:
| To me, the issue with renting an electric car is the news stories
| where they either don't give you the car fully charged or they
| expect you to return it fully charged or at the same level of
| charge as when you receive it.
|
| They should build recharging the car once into the price and only
| give the customer a fully charged vehicle.
|
| In theory, I would love to try out an electric car and rent a
| Tesla. When I read the news stories about the hassles, I don't
| want to add dealing with charging hassles to my busy trip.
| freitzkriesler2 wrote:
| Got forced into an electric car on a trip. The experience was all
| around awful. I had to learn how to manage the regenerative
| braking, the car was a nagging beeper which took even more time
| to figure out, finding charging stations and then paying for the
| privilege was a pain, and the biggest FU hertz did for me was I
| prepay fuel so I can expense it out easier for work. They charged
| me me 35$ for having it 10% below the charge. Previously the
| charge for a fuel return at a 1/4 tank prepaid would have been
| 15$ at most.
|
| I will purposefully not be selecting an electric car for my next
| rentals. Awful experience all around.
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