[HN Gopher] VMware outsourcing their support
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       VMware outsourcing their support
        
       Author : kryster
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2024-04-27 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (rubenerd.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (rubenerd.com)
        
       | dralley wrote:
       | RIP
        
       | belter wrote:
       | Broadcom must have the most idiotic management from all the large
       | tech companies. Everybody understands you buy a company to recoup
       | the investment, streamline operations and push forward with new
       | markets.
       | 
       | But do you have to increase license prices by three times within
       | the first quarter of an acquisition? Drop all free licenses that
       | allowed for learning of your technologies? Even professionals
       | with years of experience of providing VMWare official training
       | curriculum are being forced to pay for licenses that were free.
       | 
       | All training responsibilities, dropped with no warning on the
       | historical training providers...
       | 
       | What McKinsey Consultant, advised for aliening a customer base of
       | 20 years, within the first quarter of an acquisition?
       | 
       | Google, Azure and AWS Sales reps must be salivating at this
       | opportunity.
        
         | patfla wrote:
         | If you look at its history, Broadcom is a financial acquisition
         | company that operates in technology. I think Tan's position is:
         | these are (mostly) mature technologies and should be horse
         | traded like financial assets.
         | 
         | Got lucky with the LSI Logic design team and Google TPU's.
         | Presently $8 bln/yr I understand. Although such serendipity
         | increases when you're able to buy everything you see. With the
         | exception of Qualcomm.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Let's see how that turns out for them this time. This was
           | last year but buy now is probably 5 in 5...:
           | 
           | "1 in 5 VMware customers plan to jump off its stack next
           | year" - https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/08/vmware_custome
           | r_forre...
        
             | peeters wrote:
             | They _want_ 1 in 5 VMWare customers to jump. If they don
             | 't, they'll be forcibly pushed off of the edge. Broadcom's
             | entire growth model is to take an established player that
             | is entrenched in massive corporations, introduce that
             | product to the existing portfolio Broadcom offers that
             | customer, and then jack the price on the lot. If you're not
             | in the Fortune 500, Broadcom doesn't want to talk to you
             | and if they keep your business at all it'll be through
             | digital sales or third party resellers.
             | 
             | I am not a fan of them and didn't like working for them,
             | but their financial results speak for themselves. You can
             | attack the ethics of Tan's leadership certainly, but to
             | call him an idiot ignores the fact that he's doing exactly
             | what his shareholders want. Growing the company at obscene
             | returns.
        
               | patfla wrote:
               | Unfortunately, an economy is now wholly peopled by
               | shareholders, and the most important shareholders are
               | usually the owners and corporate officers.
               | 
               | Software dev who's worked in both tech and finance. I
               | don't measure things in just shareholder returns.
        
               | peeters wrote:
               | Nor do I, just saying "idiotic" is the wrong pejorative
               | here. He's doing what he's being paid to do and doing it
               | competently and successfully.
        
               | patfla wrote:
               | Don't disagree. I regard Tan as a (powerful) local
               | optimization where the counter argument to broader
               | optimizations is that they're riskier. The latter are
               | though more fundamental. New businesses, new processes,
               | new products are one thing. Profit-taking is another. To
               | get new industries you need far-ranging optimizations.
        
         | jonp888 wrote:
         | The view of Broadcom is that VMWare has low growth potential
         | and the route to maximum short term financial returns is to
         | extract as much money as possible from the largest customers.
         | 
         | So the strategy is to squeeze the 600 largest customers until
         | they bleed, knowing they are so entrenched they cannot easily
         | migrate. If the next couple of thousand stuck around as well
         | that would be nice, but not essential. The long tail of
         | hundreds of thousands of customers paying a few dollars a month
         | they would gladly be rid of.
        
           | late2part wrote:
           | How do you know this is their view? I don't have any strong
           | opinion or evidence to argue, but I'm curious if this is
           | conjecture or inference or actual knowledge?
        
             | houseofzeus wrote:
             | It was basically in their investor presentation on the
             | acquisition lol
        
             | x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
             | I have heard this from Hock Tan's own mouth during a
             | "Coffee Talk" with employees.
        
           | debarshri wrote:
           | Based on your views and insights you have if feels like you
           | are board member of Broadcom.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | This is literally what Broadcom does - it's just the first time
         | most of the HN crowd has been subjected to it. See: bluecoat
         | acquisition, Symantec acquisition.
         | 
         | Drop any pretense that you want to service any customer outside
         | of the fortune 500. Then increase prices by several hundred
         | percent because you're so imbedded in those fortune 500s, even
         | if they want to run from you it'll take them 5 years and you
         | can make all your money back in that window.
        
       | redundantly wrote:
       | Proxmox added VMware VM imports to their product. They must be
       | doing well because of the purchase by Broadcom. Hahaha.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Our VMWare bill went from $66 to $3600 this year (just a dozen
         | VMs).
         | 
         | Next year we will be using ProxMox.
        
           | PicassoCTs wrote:
           | It must be possible to milk this "dumb" investor money -
           | which directly destroys the bought goods in the long run.
           | Basically you create two teams. Team A develops a business
           | version of a open source-good. Team B works on that open
           | Source good.
           | 
           | Team A gets acquired. The product destroyed. Team B now
           | founds a company becoming Team A, while Team A forks the open
           | source product and keeps the game going. Its a ton of
           | migrations, but you could get wallstreet to donate to open
           | source as a business strategy.
        
             | figglestar wrote:
             | I'm not sure this is appealing to wallstreet at all but
             | this just describes the appeal of open source as a customer
             | to me. VMware is a just perfect case example, they're
             | literally firing paying customers and destroying a product
             | lots of people are using to make a quick buck. The company
             | and the product will ultimately be destroyed regardless of
             | their underlying value but not before they make bank.
             | 
             | But if Vmware was open source they never would have bought
             | it. The leverage being closed provides is the whole point.
        
           | debarshri wrote:
           | 100$-200$ per VM is a fair price I think. Most of the revenue
           | generating on-prem orgs can afford it. If you think it is
           | expensive then you are not the target segment for VMware.
        
             | orev wrote:
             | The fallacy here is that you're ignoring the pipeline. The
             | next generation of infrastructure admins are either running
             | on all cloud, or running on something they can easily
             | access like any KVM based system (like proxmox). VMware is
             | instantly a legacy system because anyone who doesn't
             | already run it isn't going to bother learning it.
             | 
             | Revenue generating or not, the free platforms are will
             | generate more revenue than VMware at such and exorbitant
             | cost.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | "Can afford" and "expensive" are distractions - orgs don't
             | buy things just because they have the money to so they find
             | the most expensive option to burn it on. The product has to
             | justify the cost vs other options, not just be feasible to
             | purchase.
        
           | ThinkBeat wrote:
           | If you are used to and like VMwares toolset you wont like
           | Proxmox.
           | 
           | I would not switch an enterprise from VMWare -> Proxmox
           | without a really thorough analysis of what that will mean.
           | 
           | That said the future of VMware is certainly in question.
        
             | dgfitz wrote:
             | Check out xen
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Or KVM. Probably no enterprise type solution like
               | something kubevirt-based really makes sense at that
               | scale.
        
       | ElusiveBalance wrote:
       | Just a blatant case of the creeping fictionalization that is
       | destroying good businesses. No one is safe from these new finance
       | overlords.
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | Does it properly uninstall nowadays? As in you can move between
       | versions by removing a newer version and installing a old
       | version?
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | This was inevitable given the recent layoffs. Either they're in
       | bad financial shape or they're sociopathically firing employees
       | unnecessarily. Both are excellent reasons for researching the
       | alternatives.
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | It is somewhat smart capitalism, drive up the prices extract as
       | much money as possible as fast as you can and when product stops
       | selling write it all off. Executives get their pay checks from
       | options and investors see line go up for short time...
        
       | late2part wrote:
       | 5 Years ago VMWare support was, in my opinion, absolutely gutter.
       | 
       | Calling in for any questions was met with a support tech who was
       | actively hostile and tried their best to find some way to
       | disqualify our ability to get support. The first trick was always
       | Hardware Compatibility List ("HCL") followed by interrogating us
       | about software versions. Before I get the cries of pity about all
       | the dumb users who waste their time by not upgrading, we probably
       | opened support cases twice weekly - and the same verification
       | interrogation happened.
       | 
       | We'd routinely find situations where the stated support for SANs
       | wasn't what it said, etc.
       | 
       | I'd have said it could not get worse, but reading what Broadcom
       | is doing, I am convinced otherwise.
       | 
       | Anyone using VMWare for business critical things is likely in for
       | both a huge pocket book hit and an even larger support headache.
        
         | technion wrote:
         | I'll just add that upgrading cam itself be the problem- having
         | an update come out that isn't yet hcled with your hba probably
         | is fine, until you call support.
        
       | stevenally wrote:
       | I junked a VMWare based infrastructure upgrade plan last week
       | because of this kind of thing. Life is too short.
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | What tools do Google, Amazon or Microsoft use? They are running
       | millions of VMs, Presumably its proprietary?
        
         | bionsystem wrote:
         | Amazon uses Xen which they call "Xen 2" I think because they've
         | made tons of improvements and optimizations over the years.
         | 
         | Google uses kvm. They probably contribute as well although I
         | haven't checked.
         | 
         | From a quick search Azure uses a private build of hyper-v which
         | surprises me actually but it's possible.
         | 
         | Edit : millions of VMs doesn't mean anything, at the end of the
         | day it's just servers each running a bunch of VM, which people
         | have been doing for 20+ years. There is no scaling issue there,
         | the hard part is storage, networking, orchestration, managed
         | services, power...
        
           | Korikaze wrote:
           | Amazon left Xen years ago and now uses heavily customized
           | derivative of KVM called Nitro.
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | I remember when Dell shitcanned a project to do something like
       | this about 15 years ago because they realized it would lead to
       | information hiding. Tech support loves easy to fix problems.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-27 23:01 UTC)