[HN Gopher] World Wide Web (1991)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       World Wide Web (1991)
        
       Author : geuis
       Score  : 243 points
       Date   : 2024-04-27 07:01 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (info.cern.ch)
 (TXT) w3m dump (info.cern.ch)
        
       | votiv wrote:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_founded_bef...
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | Haven't thought about IUMA in awhile. That might have been the
         | first site I went down the rabbit hole with.
        
         | jaza wrote:
         | I remember the first time I ever saw the WWW, I think it was
         | 1996, I was in 5th grade (in Australia). The whole class sat
         | down cross-legged in the "computer room", where the school's
         | brand-new Internet connection had just been installed (was
         | probably a single 14.4k modem). The teacher opened Netscape
         | Navigator (on an Apple Macintosh) and clicked on a bookmark. We
         | all sat there spellbound, waiting patiently. About half an hour
         | later, the front page of nasa.gov had finished loading! We all
         | thought it was amazing.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | In 1993 I remember most of the web sites being "How to write
         | HTML."
         | 
         | I see one guy there with photo.net -- and you might wonder why
         | he didn't register photo.com. In '93 basically every domain was
         | available, for free (there were no fees yet). Dotnet domains
         | were definitely seen as nerdier and more exotic and rarer
         | beasts than their dotcom brothers and the value of a domain was
         | little understood.
        
       | sourcecodeplz wrote:
       | Kind of awesome that some of the websites from W3 Servers
       | (https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/DataSources/WWW/Servers.html) are
       | still online, just a couple though.
        
         | geuis wrote:
         | I also love that the original servers were written in a few
         | lines of C. We've come so far since then, in plus and minus
         | ways.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | I've seen web servers written in Maclisp (almost close to
           | Emacs Lisp and Common Lisp) under ITS and PDP 10's.
           | 
           | http://up.dfupdate.se/httpd%20html
        
         | datascienced wrote:
         | First there was W3 then Web 2.0 then web3.
        
         | pasc1878 wrote:
         | I have found 3 with useful pages but half a dozen which just
         | give a blank page. And a few which are a copy of the 1992 web.
        
       | justsomehnguy wrote:
       | Wow, such a marvel of engineering, which is absolutely readable
       | both on my 4k landscape monitor and my portrait smartphone!
       | 
       | Does anybody knows, what CSS and JS magic did the guy used here?
        
         | ainiriand wrote:
         | Sarcasm will not be tolerated.
        
         | AlecSchueler wrote:
         | Without joking, it's the only page I've opened in a long long
         | time that was readable on mobile without lots of pinching and
         | scrolling.
        
           | MrDresden wrote:
           | HN is pretty usuable, except maybe for some of the small
           | touch surfaces.
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | Every webpages starts out responsive and adaptive by default.
         | :-)
        
         | niemenmaa wrote:
         | Kinda reminds me of this saga (lots of foul language ahead)
         | 
         | - http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
         | 
         | - http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/
         | 
         | - https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com/
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | You joke, but the first web page came out in 1991. CSS wouldn't
         | come out into 1996, and JavaScript was 1995.
        
           | Closi wrote:
           | That was the joke, don't worry we get it ;)
        
           | zilti wrote:
           | Technically, there was DSSSL already though. It is missed
           | dearly.
        
             | tannhaeuser wrote:
             | Whoa, that was unexpected.
             | 
             | But technically, DSSSL (OpenJade) was used to render pages
             | to print/PDF and never ran as part of a browser stack
             | (unless I've overlooked some stubborn Schemer implementing
             | it in JS or emscripten or sth; but don't tell HN's Lisp
             | fraction to given them ideas ...) Unlike SGML itself, which
             | is mentioned in TBL's docs as the basis for HTML markup.
             | Btw SGML _does_ have its own styling language in link
             | processes which basically just re-uses regular attribute
             | declaration syntax, plus has some explicit state machine
             | representation (aka  "links").
             | 
             | But yeah, using a Lisp derivative would've definitely
             | prevented the syntax proliferation that is CSS, its
             | terseness/magic, and habit of re-use of property names for
             | different purposes as a way to sneak in complex layouting
             | features by understated surface syntax changes.
        
         | RGamma wrote:
         | They use the very efficient noop framework. Go check it out
         | here:
        
       | throw310822 wrote:
       | Did someone already make a monument of these words? They would
       | look great carved in stone, with markup and everything:
       | <BODY>       <H1>World Wide Web</H1>The WorldWideWeb (W3) is a
       | wide-area<A       NAME=0 HREF="WhatIs.html">       hypermedia</A>
       | information retrieval       initiative aiming to give universal
       | access to a large universe of documents.<P>       Everything
       | there is online about       W3 is linked directly or indirectly
       | to this document, including...
        
         | tambourine_man wrote:
         | I wonder about that name attribute. Was it a tabindex
         | equivalent?
        
           | guessmyname wrote:
           | The name attribute is used to create a named anchor. [1]
           | 
           | When using named anchors you can create links to a specific
           | section on a page, instead of letting your viewer scroll
           | around to find what he/she is looking for. Named anchors are
           | called bookmarks in Expression Web.
           | 
           | NOTE: Not supported in HTML5. Use the global id attribute
           | instead. Specifies the name of an anchor
           | 
           | You can also use the name attribute on the server side to
           | identify the fields in form submits. [2][3]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.expression-web-tutorials.com/anchor-tags.html
           | 
           | [2] https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_name.asp
           | 
           | [3] https://stackoverflow.com/a/1397613
        
             | tambourine_man wrote:
             | Thanks, I remember it was replaced by the ID attribute, but
             | in this case, it is not being used as a named anchor. It
             | seem more like an index.
        
               | bazoom42 wrote:
               | The name attribute can be an arbitrary string, so a
               | number is a valid name. Even if you dont link to the
               | anchor yourself, adding a name will make it possible for
               | others to link to it in the future.
               | 
               | I belive anchors were initially designed to be two-way,
               | but it turned out to be more useful to link to headlines
               | rather than links, so links and link targets were
               | seperated.
        
       | mopsi wrote:
       | And even there we can see copyright issues:
       | Information by Subject         Music           Song lyrics
       | (apparently disabled for copyright reasons)
       | 
       | https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/DataSources/bySubject/Overvie...
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | I still remember how lyrics.wikia.com had to shut down because
         | of copyright issues. It was a site where users could edit and
         | publish song lyrics.
        
           | wanderingstan wrote:
           | And I'm still mourning the loss of the Online Guitar Archives
           | (OLGA); I still have printouts of all the songs I attempted
           | to learn on guitar.
        
             | bobvanluijt wrote:
             | Same! That was a sad day
        
               | mrbluecoat wrote:
               | Similar feelings when Napster (the original cool version)
               | and Grooveshark shut down.
        
             | gattilorenz wrote:
             | I think most of the OLGA tabs have been moved to Ultimate
             | Guitar (which supposedly compensates authors or has other
             | ways to be copyright-compliant?) and if you look for semi-
             | unknown songs from the 90s you can still find them, in
             | their beautiful notepad-like glory.
             | 
             | Up to a few years ago it also didn't have an atrocious
             | interface with plenty of antipatterns. Now, on the other
             | hand...
        
       | zarazas wrote:
       | Did you post this because of Kneipenquiz from Rocket Beans? :D
        
         | geuis wrote:
         | Nope. Was looking at some old abandonware games from when I was
         | a kid and that got me thinking about the first time I got
         | online on the actual web, not aol or whatever we had back then.
         | Then I remembered that the original site used to be still
         | running and checked if it was active.
        
       | CynicusRex wrote:
       | The first website is still more user-friendly, faster, and
       | prettier than most of the Web today.
       | 
       | "Web4 should run on LaTeX. The World Wide Web is broken: it is
       | dominated by a handful of websites, nearly everything is financed
       | by ads, bloated tech needlessly slows down surfing, NFTs and
       | blockchain are digital cancer, et cetera. Stop it. Just stop it."
       | --https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/web4.html
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | POSSE: Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere
       | (https://indieweb.org/POSSE)
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Just use Gemini, or Gopher. Gopher can be read with POSIX
         | netcat+echo+less or gawk. Gemini, with Gawk and OpenSSL:
         | 
         | http://git.vgx.fr/gem.awk/
         | 
         | On chess, telnet/netcat to freechess.org 5000. Use awk+nc or
         | gawk to change the replace the chess pieces into UTF8 if you
         | care.
         | 
         | No JS, No ads, no nothing. A 486 can still play networked
         | chess, lurk at HN or Reddit via gopher://hngopher.com and
         | gopher://gopherddit.com, read news via gopher://magical.fish
         | (and even translate things from English to French or Spanish)
         | play Nethack/Slashem, emulate the GB, play MP2 and MOD files,
         | use IRC, use chat services against bitlbee.org with an IRC
         | client, telnet to SDF and do crazy things with Emacs (from
         | reading novels to comment on Mastodon/IRC and even play IF with
         | Malyon), also, coding in Elisp.
         | 
         | Also, when the Gopher->Gemini bridge gets ready, you will be
         | able to browse UTF8 Gemini and _web_ sites wth just Lynx and a
         | dumb 386 with a relative modernish GNU /Linux, such as a
         | minimal install of Delicate Linux. Add gemini://gemi.dev on top
         | of that and even modern web will be at least article-(text)
         | readable, such as Ars Technica, Wired and The Register. And the
         | bandwidth usage will be good for any user, too. No more data
         | caps with tethered connections, gopher/gemini can be
         | ridiculously small on bw.
         | 
         | With gemini://gemi.dev I could read news far away from a city,
         | near train tunnels. The size of a web page was reduced from
         | near a MB to few KBs.
        
       | GoofballJones wrote:
       | I remember when this first dropped and I was like "this will
       | never catch on. The Internet is using telnet to log into
       | different systems....and FTP...and Usenet...and gopher...and IRC.
       | This World Wide Web is just a gimmick.
       | 
       | Hey, I never said I was a visionary.
        
       | gjvc wrote:
       | erroneous leading space on the first link. splendid.
        
       | jak2k wrote:
       | We should go back to the roots. The modern web is too bloated.
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | I'm continually astounded by the incredible shoddiness and
         | unfitness for purpose of so many commercial web sites. The more
         | time goes on, you'd think figuring out how to make a
         | functioning web site would become better known, but no. In many
         | ways it gets worse.
        
         | gerdesj wrote:
         | Yes and no. A modern house is ridiculously bloated compared to
         | what my ancestors lived in or even a tent but I wont give it
         | up.
         | 
         | You only really need a kitchen and somewhere to take a dump
         | (defecate), separate from the kitchen. The kitchen gets you
         | warmth and shelter from most weather in temperate to arctic
         | climes, shade in warmer climes. The bog need not be "inside"
         | but should be separate for obvious sanitary reasons. Oh and
         | you'll need clean water, something to eat and something to burn
         | for cooking and heat.
         | 
         | Tesco and co (supermarkets) can bugger off for being too
         | bloated. I'll be going in with a knife (veg and fruit), spear
         | and bow and arrow (food that moves). Mind you the bow is a bit
         | excessive unless the food that moves is dangerous at close
         | quarters 8)
         | 
         | Having said that: FAANG n that really is bloat that could be
         | excised with little of importance lost from the web _sigh_. How
         | on earth have we found ourselves in a world where  "going
         | viral" is a stretch goal and an indicator of success? GOPHER
         | and WAIS and USENET were good enough, back in the day. We still
         | have email for some reason and I can still run my own, from
         | home, but not everyone can.
         | 
         | In around 1994 I was asked by my boss to investigate this new
         | web thing. I had a Windows 3.11 PC. I telnetted to my
         | departmental VAX. From that I telnetted to the organization's
         | X.25 PAD. From that I could get from JANET to some exotic
         | American NIST related thing ... then I would hit a GOPHER menu
         | (I think) and after a bit of jiggery pokery I hit the web.
         | 
         | I could not really tell the difference, as an end user, between
         | WWW and GOPHER/WAIS. The hyperlinks were simply distributed
         | (through the text) instead of a list of menus. Instead of a
         | page of a menu of links you got text with links in it - all a
         | bit chaotic. Basically, a tree becomes a web. I told the boss
         | it looked a bit better than the menus of G/W but nothing really
         | new. I think I even said to him that the status quo is
         | organized like his hard disc and hence comprehensible but the
         | web is a bit mad and freeform.
         | 
         | Do bear in mind that this is in a console, the browser was yet
         | to become mainstream.
         | 
         | I'm not an important commentator on internets for obvious
         | reasons! I completely missed the point that free form and a bit
         | mad is exactly what was required for the web to go viral in no
         | uncertain terms.
        
       | taulien wrote:
       | This page [1] is still "Under Construction", I am wondering, when
       | they will finish it :)
       | 
       | [1]: https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/FAQ/Server.html
        
       | BrandoElFollito wrote:
       | I had the chance to work at CERN at that time (student, then
       | PhD). I remember navigating on a demo site and being the
       | visionary I am, I thought "ah, cool. Time for lunch".
       | 
       | I also mined some 100 bitcoins when they just appeared, out of
       | curiosity. I forgot about the program running and came back to
       | see these ~100 bitcoins. Being the visionary I am, I thought "ah,
       | cool. Let's clean up and time for lunch".
       | 
       | Some people are doomed to be executors and only catch up.
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | any recent of dem visions?
        
         | webdevver wrote:
         | just out of curiosity, what were you doing before you had lunch
         | today?
        
           | elderlybanana wrote:
           | Maybe reading about passkeys imminent death on HN?
        
             | cubefox wrote:
             | Or reading an article about AI being overhyped?
        
           | linearrust wrote:
           | Given his trajectory, probably was busy in the lab and about
           | to find the cure for cancer. Then lunch happened.
        
           | elwell wrote:
           | GP was reading about my new LLM startup, remarked how it
           | seemed 'cool' and then went off to lunch. BTW, did I mention
           | I'm looking for investors?
        
         | badsectoracula wrote:
         | That reminds me of my reaction when i first saw Minecraft back
         | in the TIGSource forums: "this looks like a level editor i made
         | a few years ago, it was fun to make levels with it but i doubt
         | anyone is going to buy a level editor" :-P.
        
         | ramon156 wrote:
         | Wanna have lunch sometime?
        
         | ironmanszombie wrote:
         | I, too, mined some bitcoins when it first appeared. My computer
         | at the time was housed in a case of plywood that I'd made. I
         | wonder if my crappy computer from over 20 years ago has at
         | least a Bitcoin in it? Well, time for qat now. Will dig it out
         | later.
        
           | hnfong wrote:
           | 1900s grandfather: I buried a sack of gold coins in my
           | backyard.
           | 
           | 2000s grandfather: The computer that I used to mine bitcoin
           | is probably in the pile of junk inside the garage.
        
             | arrowsmith wrote:
             | > The computer that I used to mine bitcoin is probably in
             | the pile of junk inside the garage
             | 
             | It's funny because it's true:
             | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55658942
        
               | xorcist wrote:
               | Maybe "true" isn't the best word to use. There are too
               | many stories like this for them all to be true. Great
               | story though.
        
               | kolinko wrote:
               | At that time you even had bitcoin faucets that gave you
               | 0.5-1-5 btc to play around. Or you could just run a miner
               | on your gpu and get 50btc if you ran it for a few days or
               | so - a ton of people probably have those on some
               | partition on an old laptop or sth.
        
               | xorcist wrote:
               | Yes, but we know where those coins are now: in
               | circulation. And we have a good grasp how many that is
               | and how many could possibly on on those shelved laptops.
               | It is literally how every coin in circulation was minted
               | as there is no central party, only your peer devices.
        
             | gbolcer wrote:
             | LMAO. I have about 150 Bitcoins sitting on an old hard
             | drive at the bottom of the local dump. I guess someone
             | would try to dig them up if it ever hits a million, but
             | doubtful they could recover them much less unlock them.
        
         | helpfulContrib wrote:
         | Its 1992. A friend of mine has asked me to meet with someone,
         | to discuss the idea of 'selling things through the web'. I
         | didn't like the idea - "this is not what the Internet is for...
         | and the web is too esoteric, difficult to set up and use,
         | TCP/IP WinSock blahblah", and I dismiss the thing entirely on
         | an ideological basis. That friend goes on to participate in
         | something that later became .. Amazon.
         | 
         | Its 1994. I turn on the modem back at an ISP I've just built,
         | in a place called Los Feliz. After a few months of putting out
         | the fires, I decide "this ISP thing is balls", and I leave. The
         | guy I built the first data center for, goes on to be worth 300
         | million buckaroonies.
         | 
         | Its 1996. An associate has flown us to San Francisco for the
         | day, to meet a guy who has been trying to get his auction site
         | launched for the past year. We have lunch, we discuss the whole
         | concept of 'online auctions', I dismiss it as being unviable
         | "because latency" and legal jurisdiction. Okay, a few years
         | later, I buy a synthesizer on EBay. I still have it, to remind
         | me of myopia.
         | 
         | Its 1997. I get hired to make a bookmark-management site,
         | called "Storease". I build it, but I don't like it. People will
         | find things, then add their URL to our site, and collect
         | "Storease". "This will be too expensive to scale properly
         | unless someone comes up with data-centers as a commodity..."
         | Something about this rubs me up the wrong way. Could've been
         | delicious, though.
         | 
         | Its 2010. I buy a few bitcoins, for _30 cents each_ , and keep
         | them around long enough to make .. 300 bucks. I'm proud of
         | myself for selling 10 bitcoins and making 300 bucks.
         | 
         | This stuff happens. Its a difficult thing for technologically
         | inclined ideologues to see the woods for the trees.
         | 
         | Its 2023. I am still ignoring crypto. All my friends are
         | millionaires. I'm just glad to have a new version of JUCE to
         | play with ...
        
           | imperialdrive wrote:
           | Similar. Just along for the ride. It's still rewarding and
           | can last a long time in good health. Hope you're enjoying it
           | too!
        
           | YZF wrote:
           | - I thought Google was too expensive at its IPO.
           | 
           | - "Cloud" seemed like marketing nonsense to me.
           | 
           | - I still think bitcoin is a scam.
           | 
           | On the plus side I did end up working for some tech companies
           | that did very well. No complaints.
           | 
           | It's really hard (read as impossible) to predict the future.
           | Efficient markets and all that. If it was clear that Google
           | would go where it went then it'd be priced even higher. Even
           | if you knew that "selling things online is the future" in
           | 1992 it's not always clear how to act on that knowledge. You
           | could have gone bust with pets.com or something.
           | 
           | Fast forward to today. What is today's Google? What is
           | today's "cloud"? What is today's bitcoin? Someone is saying
           | something about something, someone is right, many are wrong.
        
           | BrandoElFollito wrote:
           | Honestly, this is like I am reading my bio.
           | 
           | I had several of these along the way (including having a
           | proposal to create a company but I was too busy courting a
           | girl - they sold it for around 100MEUR and split in in three
           | :))
           | 
           | I work in high tech (bleeding edge) and spend my time
           | automating my home and writing open source (when not
           | working). My wife, from time to time, mentions how much I
           | could do and my son cannot understand why I do not want to go
           | further up the company pyramid. But I am happy, I have all
           | the money I need and can now sit in front of my screen
           | answering to HN while keeping an eye on the dinner I am
           | cooking.
           | 
           | So yeah, lots of lost opportunities but the partying was wild
           | :)
           | 
           | And yeah, I am still ignoring bitcoins when the guys in my
           | team are making money (but live on an emotional rollercoaster
           | :))
        
         | rqtwteye wrote:
         | Oh my. Same here. I mined quite a few bitcoins on a friend's PC
         | a long time ago. Then we tried to do something with them but
         | you couldn't even buy a beer. So we forgot about the bitcoins
         | and the disk is probably on a trash heap somewhere now.
        
           | hparadiz wrote:
           | Time to get the IBN 5100 and go back in time.
        
           | lovegrenoble wrote:
           | What a pity (
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | How about lunch sometimes?
        
         | Arisaka1 wrote:
         | Reminds me of the all-time classic (now) HN discussion on
         | Dropbox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863 as I got
         | older I realized that, you can never ever hope to choose what
         | will be successful or important, and that is true down to the
         | most seemingly small action you can make. The world is simply
         | too complex and interdependent for that.
        
         | demondemidi wrote:
         | Sounds fake. This ain't Reddit.
        
           | xcv123 wrote:
           | No. It was that easy to mine bitcoins back then and just
           | throw them away. Interesting but worthless at the time.
        
           | BrandoElFollito wrote:
           | From your profile it looks like you are even older than me.
           | 
           | I find it strange that you did not go through similar stories
           | - tech in the 90s was rather eventful. Maybe you were at the
           | wrong place?
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | My reaction when I first heard of the concept of a "wiki" where
         | everyone is allowed to edit some post (curiously before I heard
         | about Wikipedia): I thought such a system would immediately be
         | ruined by vandalism. It didn't occur to me that there may be
         | way more people who undo vandalism than there are vandals.
         | 
         | Or when I first heard about Twitter. My immediate reaction was:
         | "I'm unusually open to wacky Web 2.0 ideas, but even I have to
         | admit you can't say anything of substance in just 140
         | characters." And indeed, looking up some random tweets seemed
         | to confirm this suspicion. Interestingly, this wasn't just my
         | reaction. A lot of us "tech enthusiasts" had this opinion about
         | Twitter.
        
           | cxr wrote:
           | > My reaction when I first heard of the concept of a "wiki"
           | where everyone is allowed to edit some post (curiously before
           | I heard about Wikipedia): I thought such a system would
           | immediately be ruined
           | 
           | There are people who think that today, despite well-known
           | existence proofs we have to the contrary.
        
         | 13of40 wrote:
         | Let me tell you about my grand scheme, circa 1991 or
         | thereabouts, of downloading small images from BBSes and
         | embedding them inline with the text.
        
         | defaultcompany wrote:
         | Yeah I remember using NCSA mosaic to browse the early web and
         | thinking "what's the point of this we already have FTP and
         | archie".
        
         | gerdesj wrote:
         | I only mined around 1 BT when they were "worth" about PS5 and
         | then lost the wallet because I ran out of floppies for my
         | transfer of data from old to new PC or I forgot about it (which
         | is more likely).
         | 
         | I thought the www looked a bit mad and disorganized when I
         | first telnetted to it via the US from UK.
         | 
         | Time for lunch.
        
         | MaintenanceMode wrote:
         | I too am similarly gifted. Back in the usenet days a group I
         | was on received its first spam. There was some discussion about
         | whether this type of thing would get out of control. I
         | confidently proclaimed that there was no way spam would ever be
         | more than a minor nuisance.
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | How's this different than gopher? At least gopher is well-
       | established; This will never catch on.
        
         | chrisco255 wrote:
         | There's probably a Usenet thread with this exact text in some
         | archive...
        
         | thomasahle wrote:
         | Gopher also has a much more familiar UI with navigation menus.
         | This "hyperlink" idea is typical ivory tower thinking. Nobody
         | outside of academia will want to use this.
         | 
         | And support for images/multimedia? The internet bandwidth this
         | requires will limit it to just a few elite institutions.
        
         | olddustytrail wrote:
         | My exact feelings on seeing Cello browser.
        
       | Scarblac wrote:
       | I remember finding the WWW in 1993 when it wasn't really more
       | than about a thousand pages at CERN.
       | 
       | And I didn't see what was so special about it, and didn't do
       | anything with it... I mean Gopher had archie so it was
       | searchable. And I didn't care much about physics.
        
       | ricksunny wrote:
       | Does anyone know if TBL was inspired by Vannnevar Bush's Memex
       | proposal at all?
       | 
       | Progressively through time we hear references to Memex as
       | 'predicted computers', 'predicted search' 'predicted hypertext',
       | "predicted AI",
       | 
       | to which I would add 'predicted tagging' and 'predicted
       | recommendation engines'
       | 
       | [note the steady progression of our own technology through time
       | reflected in the above list]
       | 
       | And there's still at least one more Memex prediction of something
       | useful that I feel we still haven't produced yet.
       | 
       |  _edit_ (Ah I see that the wikipedia article for TBL mentions
       | Memex front-and-center, so a pretty trivially identifiable
       | association I guess.)
        
         | BirAdam wrote:
         | According to his own words, he wasn't aware of Bush, Engelbart,
         | or Nelson when he started working on Enquire, but hypertext
         | more generally was known to him. He became aware of those other
         | men and their work over time and their ideas helped to refine
         | his own.
        
       | lmihaig wrote:
       | We should be forever grateful that places like CERN exist, which
       | strive for open science and open source.
        
       | mihaaly wrote:
       | It is so refreshing seeing content first simple pages from time
       | to time in the cacophony of attention seeking (obstructively
       | injecting themselves) pages with zero or negative
       | (misinformation, misdirection, pure lies and harm) content. It is
       | no fun using the World Wide Web anymore, it is a pure danger zone
       | and struggle.
       | 
       | Except exceptions like this one here.
       | 
       | One of my sorrow how formally respectable mediums like BBC suck
       | up to this crap trend. Their scrolling articles where your
       | fingers get tired while the emptionally manipulative and
       | exagerating nothing with active shiny presentation goes is
       | something I ever finished, but once I tried. Rubbish! (and
       | unluckily their content too in general, even for the simpler text
       | articles, increasingly, all oppinion random quotes dipped in
       | thick dripping emotional manipulation). Have to read The
       | Economist instead. Not cheap but there the content matter still
       | over the form.
        
         | RetroTechie wrote:
         | Maybe the time is right to bring back manually curated lists of
         | useful/interesting websites. Webrings, category-sorted
         | directories with an entry 'portal' & similar.
         | 
         | These mostly disappeared as the web's content size exploded,
         | maintaining those directories became too much work, and search
         | engines were just so much easier / better to find what you're
         | looking for.
         | 
         | These days: ad & tracking infested bloated trash _everywhere_ ,
         | and search engine's usefulness have declined. Putting the few
         | "small web" gems out there in a curated directory, might just
         | be easier than trawling through heaps & heaps of junk (or in
         | near-future: have AI assistant do that for you).
         | 
         | A kind of white-listing, if you will.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | I remember a text mode BBC site a la https://lite.cnn.io and
           | https://text.npr.org. Now it's not any more.
           | 
           | Gemini with gemini://gemi.dev/waffle.cgi opening the full BBC
           | URL (with https:// on front) would be the closest to that.
           | 
           | Edit:
           | 
           | gemi.dev/cgi-
           | bin/waffle.cgi/links?https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews
           | 
           | Try Lagrange in a PC or Android and open this URL.
        
           | chuckadams wrote:
           | > Maybe the time is right to bring back manually curated
           | lists of useful/interesting websites.
           | 
           | HN and other link-aggregation forums are more or less a
           | crowdsourced version of that.
        
       | niek_pas wrote:
       | Look at how fucking fast this page loads. No newsletter banners.
       | No ads. Easy to read, responsive. Why can't more of the web be
       | like this.
        
         | potency wrote:
         | Because expectations have increased since the early 90's and
         | servers cost money.
        
       | adriangrigore wrote:
       | I also jokingly refer to
       | https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Provider/ShellScript.html as
       | the first version of my static site generator https://mkws.sh/
        
         | KingOfCoders wrote:
         | "If you know the perl language, then that is a powerful (if
         | otherwise incomprehensible) language with which to hack
         | together a server."
         | 
         | Perl was the first language I wrote dynamic websites in around
         | ~1993 so this made me laugh.
        
           | adriangrigore wrote:
           | Things have sure gotten better now. :D
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | I found the syntax interesting
       | /HEPDATA/REAC?P+PBAR  list of reactions involving p and pbar (?)
       | 
       | https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Provider/ServerWriter.htm...
        
       | tejohnso wrote:
       | Interesting comments from the FAQ regarding resource discovery:
       | 
       | May...1992...
       | 
       | "By the way, it would be easy in principle for a third party to
       | run over these [hyperlink] trees and make indexes of what they
       | find. Its just that noone has done it as far as I know because
       | there isn't yet an indexer which runs over the web directly."
       | 
       | ...
       | 
       | "In the long term, when there is a really large mass of data out
       | there, with deep interconnections, then there is some really
       | exciting work to be done on automatic algorithms to make multi-
       | level searches."
       | 
       | Altavista came out in 1995, Google Search 2 years later.
        
       | johnc_ wrote:
       | Will never take off.
        
       | marstall wrote:
       | "there is no 'top' to the web" <= words that were mind blowing to
       | me at the time
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | It would be neat to catch up on what all of the people listed on
       | https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/People.html have been doing
       | for the last thirty years. I bet they are an interesting bunch!
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | I was hoping this was still being served on the same Next Cube
       | with the "do not power down!!" label, but the HTTP headers
       | strongly suggest not.
       | 
       | Maybe it's pointlessly romantic but I like the idea of machines
       | and software continuing to perform their job well past their life
       | expectancy. Voyager 1 has to be the most celebrated example.
       | Maybe it's because it makes me care more about crafting things if
       | they are a little less ephemeral than the modern software churn
       | would make us believe.
        
         | lokimedes wrote:
         | Last time (~2012) I saw that machine, it was exhibited at the
         | CERN Computing Center lobby. Its sibling, Tim's workstation was
         | exhibited at CERN's public museum. Both long disconnected.
        
       | twilightzone wrote:
       | Even works in reader mode.
        
       | pbd wrote:
       | wow. looks cool.
        
       | ape4 wrote:
       | No rush, but maybe somebody could fix this stray tag at the end
       | <A NAME=49 HREF="...">anonymous FTP</A> , etc.</A>
        
       | dailykoder wrote:
       | >You can try the simple line mode browser by telnetting to
       | info.cern.ch (no user or password. From UK JANET, use the
       | Gateway).
       | 
       | doen't work for me :(
        
         | jpcfl wrote:
         | Sad. Here's a simulator: http://line-
         | mode.cern.ch/www/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html
        
       | linearrust wrote:
       | No blinking neon text that could send a blind man into an
       | uncontrolled violent seizure?
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | From the news link, this is actually from November 1992.
        
       | flenserboy wrote:
       | At the beginning of that Fall term one of my classmates pulled up
       | next to me while I was working on a NeXT box in our lab. He had
       | me pull up an app he'd had a hand in working on over his summer
       | in Switzerland. "Check it out -- this is going to be great. So
       | much better than Gopher," he said. After following a few links I
       | replied, "It's nice, but doesn't provide much more than Gopher
       | right now." "No -- but it will." It was fun to be able to see
       | things in the earliest days of the web, & to see how it grew.
       | Never would have guessed at the time that the browser would
       | become the centerpiece of most people's computer use.
        
       | peterbmarks wrote:
       | I remember having an O'Reilly book titled "The Whole Internet".
       | Hilarious concept. Gopher was pretty cool at the time.
        
       | mhandley wrote:
       | I upgraded the UCL CS webserver to CERN/3.0 running on a Sun
       | Sparcstation 10 back in 1994, and it has been in production use
       | ever since. The hardware got replaced at least once (our sysadmin
       | has a large pile of spare mid-1990s Sparc hardware), and the NFS
       | server storing the data has changed more than once, but it's the
       | same software install still running on 1990s Sun hardware. It
       | needed some minor patches for Y2K, but nothing in the 24 years
       | since. Will be 30 years this summer. Needless to say as it
       | predates SSL, it's no longer our primary server, but it does
       | still serve everyone's home pages.                 % nc
       | www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk 80       HEAD /staff/M.Handley/ HTTP/1.0
       | HTTP/1.0 200 Document follows       MIME-Version: 1.0
       | Server: CERN/3.0       Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 22:06:54 GMT
       | Content-Type: text/html       Content-Length: 9973       Last-
       | Modified: Thu, 07 Dec 2023 13:26:26 GMT
        
         | MaintenanceMode wrote:
         | That's so amazing. That Sun sparc 10 was a beast of a machine.
         | I had one running until 2020. It was seemingly unstoppable. It
         | broke my heart to send it off to recycling, it's weird being
         | emotional about a computer. It had been serving web pages (on-
         | and-off) since 1997.
        
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