[HN Gopher] Brutalist Churches
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Brutalist Churches
Author : surprisetalk
Score : 145 points
Date : 2024-04-26 11:11 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.dezeen.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.dezeen.com)
| mayormcmatt wrote:
| Our family used to attend Newman Hall Church in Berkeley,
| California back in the '90s -- a very brutalist building of a
| church. Although religion never took for me, I had fond memories
| of the after-church donut feasts in the community space. I don't
| know if the intention of the architecture was to get me to focus
| on the mass, but young me just spent the entire time taking in
| the strange geometries of the place.
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/3TtT716k3bUkdAVh6
| jonah wrote:
| I was just going to mention that one!
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=newman+hall+holy+spirit+parish+ber...
|
| I've been there once and personally, quite like that aesthetic.
| But the thing that sticks with me was the priest proclaimed the
| Gospel passage from the bible word-for-word from memory rather
| than reading it.
| gnabgib wrote:
| Some discussion 2 months ago [0](34 points, 15 comments)
| {Different source, same photos}
|
| [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39670217
| nabla9 wrote:
| It seems like most new churches in Finland are brutalist concrete
| slabs at least from outside.
|
| They are called "defense bunkers against devil"
|
| Some pictures:
|
| https://twitter.com/sorjonen_fi/status/916606080154767361
|
| https://twitter.com/ArtoNatkynmaki/status/168386825764259020...
|
| https://fi.wiktionary.org/wiki/piruntorjuntabunkkeri#/media/...
| polemic wrote:
| Not just the new ones - it's a very scandinavian lutheran
| trend. Tapiloa Church for e.g.
| https://www.google.com/maps/@60.1783778,24.8091179,3a,75y,15...
|
| However there's also the church in the rock which is absolutely
| stunning and worth a visit.
| https://www.temppeliaukionkirkko.fi/en/index/nimi.html#
| jonah wrote:
| In Los Angeles, CA, the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels is
| pretty brutalist:
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cathedral+of+Our+Lady+of+the+Angel...
|
| https://www.olacathedral.org/overview
|
| A favorite part of mine are the tapestries:
|
| https://www.olacathedral.org/tapestries
| temp0826 wrote:
| Shouldn't churches evoke feelings of divinity instead of
| oppression? (I know it's popular to hate on brutalist
| architecture, but really isn't a place of worship the last place
| you'd want it?)
| thetruckgoes wrote:
| Haven't the churches been [historically] oppressive?
| temp0826 wrote:
| I get that it's popular to hate on religion too ;), so I
| suppose that's ironic to some.
| randohostage wrote:
| is it though like really? >6 billion people in the world
| actively identify with one religion or another but in terms
| of ratio there are more memes on social media about athesim
| than religions at least on my AI curated feed
| thrance wrote:
| There is plenty of hate speech towards non-believers if
| you look a little bit for it. In fact, I'd even say that
| as unfunny and overseen atheists memes are, they are the
| most tame of all religious critic online.
| joemazerino wrote:
| Depends on your scale. On one hand, all institutions are
| oppressive at some level. On the other, Christianity is the
| foundation of the free society you (most likely) live in.
| Gare wrote:
| Why are you finding brutalist architecture oppressive?
| vundercind wrote:
| They tend to look like something someone who didn't give a
| shit made. "I just need a box for people to be in, who cares
| what it looks like?"
|
| The example brutalist churches in another post here look like
| someone doing a horrible experiment in the Sims made
| buildings without bothering to use anything but some default
| wall texture they found buried in the dev tools that doesn't
| even tile very well, because they just needed a place to
| torture Sims in and don't care what it looks like.
|
| Yeah, that comes off as oppressive.
| bombcar wrote:
| The oldest churches direct you to the heavens and God.
|
| Early modern churches direct you to the preacher.
|
| Modern churches direct you to the architect. (Or building
| repair services depending on whom you ask.)
| djur wrote:
| I don't see it that way at all. A lot of care and thought
| went into these designs, and they evoke the kind of awe you
| would expect from a god's house. These aren't just hulking
| concrete bunkers like some of the institutional brutalism
| you see.
| snowpid wrote:
| Maybe these architects should think, why their "well
| thought" experiments just look lazy designed.
| djur wrote:
| They don't. Are you telling me that you look at this and
| think "what a lazy design"?
|
| https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-
| modernity-b...
| snowpid wrote:
| 30 seconds of Google search https://www.re-
| thinkingthefuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2020...
|
| You think this is well thought.
| snowpid wrote:
| It's not natural, grey is a stupid colour, no ornaments. Only
| architects like brutalism.
|
| But I am happy to know that brutalist churches in Germany
| will be destruct at first than older churches.
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| > It's not natural
|
| A point of brutalism is "form follows function and
| "showcase the bare building materials" (1) - in other
| words, that's how the material looks, naturally. Bare,
| unpainted concrete is in fact more natural and honest than
| painted concrete. And brutalism deliberately leans into
| that naturalism (of modern materials).
|
| 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture
| snowpid wrote:
| The impression of Unnatural comes from the fact, that
| brutalist forms don't exist in Nature. Concrete is
| everything but not a natural material. Showing it isnt
| natural.
|
| I am still buffed they are people defending brutalism. It
| is one of the biggest mistake in Architecture and one day
| these buildings will vanish.
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| > I am still buffed they are people defending brutalism
|
| You are confused, describing is not the same as
| defending.
|
| > It is one of the biggest mistake in Architecture
|
| I don't necessary agree, but I didn't even take a
| position on that.
|
| > and one day these buildings will vanish.
|
| Over enough time, so will all buildings. But the sturdy
| one will last longer.
| nequo wrote:
| Bricks and glass panels also don't exist in nature. Only
| we humans bring them about, just as we do with concrete.
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| Yes, it would be more natural to live in a cave or a
| wooden hut. There's a long essay on the subject from a
| guy named Ted who put it into practice.
| snowpid wrote:
| The forms used in classical architecture are way more
| natural than just stupid plain concrete.
| HeatrayEnjoyer wrote:
| Brutalism is beautiful
| deadbabe wrote:
| They could soften it up by adding some plants. Eco-brutalist!
| jltsiren wrote:
| Depends on who you ask. It's a somewhat common belief that
| churches should be plain and unadorned and that religious art
| can lead to idolatry. Ideas like that were particularly popular
| among early Protestants.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| Many of the brutalist churches I've seen do not, IMO, "evoke
| feelings of oppression" (aside from any one might have as a
| result of personal conflict with the religious institution
| behind them, which is a separate issue.)
|
| Including, I should mention, most of those in TFA.
| wrp wrote:
| I suppose we just have to chalk it up to different tastes in
| art. To me, my first thought on seeing most of those pictures
| is how they look like settings for some implausibly dystopian
| sci-fi movie.
| grobgambit wrote:
| No doubt. I find these churches amazingly beautiful.
|
| I also think in the sense of how a church in 1500 was not a
| relic of the past the way we view a church from 1500 today.
| I would say a church from 1500 was much closer to what the
| churches in this article would have been in 1500.
|
| Of course, there is a real issue that while I find these
| amazingly beautiful I would never go to one because I am
| not the least bit Christian or religious.
| wrp wrote:
| Somewhat to that last point, my emotional reaction to
| these structures would be completely different if I knew
| they were designed to be car parks.
| onionisafruit wrote:
| I don't have a car, but I would love for the parking
| garage near me look like the churches in the article
| (putting aside the practical differences in
| requirements). Similarly, I would welcome one on these
| church buildings replacing one of my neighborhood
| churches just to give us something different to look at.
| silverquiet wrote:
| Probably the most famous Brutalist public art in Texas, the
| Fort Worth Water Gardens, was indeed used in filming of
| Logan's Run.
|
| I've generally found the Brutalist buildings in Texas
| rather ugly on the exterior at least, but did find a sense
| of comfort in occupying them; perhaps there's something
| cave-like and solid about their atmosphere. I did enjoy
| visiting the Water Gardens; I think it's a good expression
| of the style.
|
| However, many of the churches pictured here are on another
| level. Something about the austere concrete juxtaposed to
| the wooden pews (and speaking as someone raised Catholic,
| it's hard to imagine a pew brutal enough to satisfy god)
| works quite well for me. I'm really impressed by some of
| these.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Interesting, nearly all the photos in the article did for me.
| mikrl wrote:
| Brutalism IMO relies on imposing designs. In outdoor spaces,
| this can lead to feelings of oppression, as anyone who has
| traversed a high-rise complex at night can attest.
|
| When there is enough space, such as in a church, library,
| public transport infra etc, the concrete monoliths suddenly
| become more distant and less threatening and you can really
| appreciate the effect of being in some kind of ancient future
| ruin.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > Brutalism IMO relies on imposing designs
|
| I disagree. Brutalism is based on dropping any pretense of
| the material used to construct the building. No shiny glass
| veneer or facade, just concrete buildings reveling their
| _concreteness_ with no artifice. If large middle age
| cathedrals are supposed to inspire a sense of the devine,
| then IMO brutalist churches inspire a sense of
| guilelessness.
| keeganpoppen wrote:
| our perhaps evoking the feeling of being a part of something
| bigger than yourself? which brutalist architecture absolutely
| does.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| I don't really see what's oppressive about any of these
| buildings. Many of the qualities of the divine are recognizable
| in these churches. Simplicity, transcending of the natural
| world, and so on.
|
| When people talk about the divine, especially in the Abrahamic
| traditions, it's common to talk about what God isn't. (negative
| theology). You shouldn't make an image of God. To approach the
| divine is to remove everything that isn't divine and
| experiencing what is left over.
|
| And I think that's fantastically realized in the austerity of
| these churches. I've visited some of them, my favorite one
| isn't actually mentioned here, it's a pretty small church
| outside of Osaka, the Church of Light by Tadao Ando.
| (https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M)
| retrac wrote:
| Gothic architecture also feels oppressive, at least to me. I
| believe that is working as intended; dread and awe bring us
| closer to the divine.
| graemep wrote:
| Not to me. I find it uplifting and joyous. I find the same of
| the best of the modern churches (brutalist or otherwise0
| bazoom42 wrote:
| How does divinity feel? According to the bible you drop dead
| instantly if you gaze upon the face of God.
|
| These church spaces eschews color and decoration and instead
| shape the light and the space itself to give you a feeling of
| the divine.
| nikolay wrote:
| These remind me of styling in Raise by Wolves [0] of the Mithraic
| [1].
|
| By the way, it's a great sci-fi show and I was very saddened when
| I heard HBO Max canceled it (during its transition to Max). I
| unsubscribed from them and I'm boycotting them due to this
| hostility.
|
| [0]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9170108/
|
| [1]: https://raised-by-wolves.fandom.com/wiki/Mithraic
| egypturnash wrote:
| These all look like churches that I would encounter with blood
| everywhere in the middle of a first-person shooter. They also
| look like total acoustical nightmares. All that echo-ey concrete,
| yikes.
| bombcar wrote:
| Sometimes the concrete is exceptionally well designed and you
| can fill the church with a single singer.
|
| Others are so badly designed you need literally millions in
| audio equipment to have a simple choir.
| deadbabe wrote:
| Quake??
| egypturnash wrote:
| Mostly I was reminded of the upside-down church zone of
| System Shock 2. That's one of the few FPSs I bothered
| playing.
| swores wrote:
| Brutalist architecture can be done with good acoustics in mind,
| it just takes the same sort of planning & design that a non-
| brutalist building also needs.
|
| The Barbican Centre in the UK is a very famous example of a
| music (and arts) venue with brutalist architecture, and while
| its acoustics are considered good but not amazing (or
| "serviceable", to use the description of conductor Sir Simon
| Raffle), it could have been much better but its problems
| weren't caused by being brutalist.
|
| This person's blog is worth a quick read (ctrl+F for the
| section about the Barbican): http://trevorcox.me/what-is-wrong-
| with-londons-concert-halls
|
| And I really love the Barbican, including how it looks from
| outside and including how it feels to sing on its biggest
| stage. An exterior photo: https://www.ansador.co.uk/wp-
| content/uploads/2020/07/Barbica... And interior example:
| https://i.pinimg.com/736x/93/1f/52/931f52e58c9b1a2f9330d050a...
| graemep wrote:
| I lived there for a year (there are blocks of flats there)
| and I found it to be a great place to live.
|
| It feels very pleasant once you get to know it.
| swores wrote:
| Ooh, I've never been in any of those flats, but always
| thought I'd enjoy living there - glad to hear that you did
| enjoy it!
| thom wrote:
| Not as attractive as those in the article, but still quite
| striking near me:
|
| https://modernmooch.com/2018/08/19/trinity-united-reform-chu...
|
| Somewhat terrifying when they light up the front in red at night.
| philwelch wrote:
| Horrifying and monstrous.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I'd hate to be in one in an earthquake.
| jszymborski wrote:
| Montreal has some great brutalist buildings, and there are few
| brutalist churches in the east-end of the island. I grew up with
| many buildings of this style and I must say I've grown fond of
| them. I know they are seen as cold, but they bring me warmth.
| Andrex wrote:
| I want to read this article but the website has other ideas.
| Horrible UX and horrible ads (redundant, I know).
| metadat wrote:
| For what it's worth Andrex, gusto sucks ass. Their customer
| service sucks and is a sham.
| Andrex wrote:
| Always glad to read I'm not alone! Horrendous company.
| fredguth wrote:
| I would add Catedral Metropolitana do Rio de Janeiro.
| analog31 wrote:
| Here's one in Madison WI, that was taken down and rebuilt in a
| more traditional style a few years ago.
|
| https://isthmus.com/arts/goodbye-st-pauls/
| sebtron wrote:
| The first church in the article (second after the banner
| picture), "Santa Maria Immacolata"[0] has an important historical
| meaning.
|
| It is located in the village of Longarone, which was completely
| wiped out in 1963 due to the disaster of the Vajont dam[1]. Tl;dr
| the dam should not have been built there because of the geology
| of the area, but they did anyway; an enormous piece of the
| mountain fell into the lake, causing a huge wave. Nearly 2000
| people died.
|
| The church was built as part of the rebuilding of the whole
| village.
|
| [0] (Italian)
| https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_di_Santa_Maria_Immacola...
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam
| lIl-IIIl wrote:
| Reminds me of this Buddhist monastery:
| https://architectureprize.com/winners/winner.php?id=6300
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| If you're ever in Reykjavik, check out the Hallgrimskirkja.
| Completed in 1986, located visibly, on a hill. From outside it's
| very impressive, with the soaring spire shaped (IMHO) like a
| supersonic aircraft ascending vertically. A stone angel.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallgr%C3%ADmskirkja
|
| https://www.re.is/is/blog/guide-to-hallgrimskirkja-church-re...
|
| https://yourfriendinreykjavik.com/hallgrimskirkja-a-tribute-...
| cviilgan wrote:
| Ah yes, the church of The Binomial Distribution. Quite a sight.
| And if you're in Reyjkavik anyways, you should go visit my
| favourite brutalist church, Askirkja. Straight out of the Lord
| of the Rings.
| https://live.staticflickr.com/5743/22683689714_cff8ae8af1_b....
|
| Also, don't miss out on the botanical garden and its cafe, it's
| right around the corner!
| phito wrote:
| Brutalism always makes me feel anxious and unsafe for some
| reason.
| odiroot wrote:
| I have cycled to work past this ugly thing in Berlin:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/9WQ6PZPg2U8XBzJo6
|
| Although it actually fits quite right in the neighbourhood, which
| was wholly ruined by brutalist architects.
|
| Some parts were built over beautiful Grunderzeit (industrial
| revolution more or less) tenement houses, which were demolished
| for this new "futuristic" district.
| stefanon wrote:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/e1M3USiv5Uay2t9UA
| p0w3n3d wrote:
| Google up images of Arka Krakow (or duckduckgo up), one of the
| famous brutalist churches in Poland
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