[HN Gopher] Asian American women are getting lung cancer despite...
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Asian American women are getting lung cancer despite never smoking
Author : panabee
Score : 118 points
Date : 2024-04-25 19:16 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nbcnews.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nbcnews.com)
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| 12% of Asian American men smoke compared with 2.6% of women. So
| non smoking Asian women are more likely to live with a smoking
| man. Could second hand smoking exposure be a factor in this?
|
| https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/smoking-facts/impact-of-to...
| max_ wrote:
| There are Many things that cause lung cancer other than
| smoking.
|
| Infact majority of people that smoke don't get Cancer (only
| about 30% in a group of smokers get lung cancer)
|
| Edit: I don't mean it's comforting I prefer to have it at 0/10
|
| I am just trying to say that things that cause cancer are not
| as deterministic as we think.
| rafram wrote:
| "If you smoke, your chances of getting cancer are _only_ 3 in
| 10! " is not actually very comforting.
| max_ wrote:
| I don't mean it's comforting I prefer to have it at 0/10.
|
| I am just trying to say that things that cause cancer are
| not as deterministic as we think.
| panabee wrote:
| this is correct. it's clear that smoking elevates cancer
| risk, but why doesn't it cause cancer in all smokers?
|
| to develop a cure, we must better understand the causal
| mechanisms.
|
| this starts with acknowledging what we know and don't
| know about a devilishly complex disease that is arguably
| better conceptualized as a broad category rather than one
| monolith -- similar to how the flu, cold, and covid could
| be grouped under one mega classification, but are better
| identified as distinct conditions.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| I think we understand the causal mechanism pretty well.
| it is just laypeople struggle with binary thinking vs
| probability.
|
| The reason why only 20% of smokers get cancer is similar
| to why a person doesn't get cancer after 1 cigarette.
|
| This is only counterintuitive if your default thinking is
| that smoking=cancer. In reality, there are a lot of
| variable chemical and biological processes involved, but
| ultimately it ultimately boils down to a cumulative risk,
| not guarantee.
| jejeyyy77 wrote:
| 20% of lung cancer cases in the US are people who have
| never smoked.
| hackeraccount wrote:
| Poor Stephen Jay Gould. :-(
| d1sxeyes wrote:
| Also worth remembering that cancer isn't the only bad thing
| smoking does to you. 7/10 smokers (2/3) die of a smoking
| related illness.
| jjgreen wrote:
| Any idea of what percentage of non-smokers die of a
| smoking related illness?
| nneonneo wrote:
| I mean, it's not going to be 0/10 because smoking causes
| cancer.
|
| Cancer itself isn't deterministic. This isn't news. There is
| virtually nothing that is 100% guaranteed to produce cancer,
| but there are things that massively increase risk. Tobacco is
| one of them.
|
| An estimated 72% of lung cancers in Canada are caused by
| tobacco (https://www.canada.ca/en/health-
| canada/services/health-conce...) Smokers are 25x more likely
| to die of lung cancer as nonsmokers. The US CDC estimates
| that smoking is linked to 80-90% of lung cancer deaths (https
| ://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/risk_factors.htm).
|
| Saying "tobacco causes lung cancer" isn't guaranteeing that
| smoking leads to lung cancer, but it sure as hell is the
| leading cause.
| max_ wrote:
| It is true that Tobacco increases cancer risk.
|
| But what about stuff like the use of Teflon and other
| "forever" chemicals? These things may also be making a
| contribution.
|
| It could also be a genetic defect. A liver cell growing in
| the lung.
|
| Or maybe a staple food familiar to Asian women that is
| being contaminated with carcinogens.
| da_chicken wrote:
| Yes, but as far as risk factors for lung cancer, second-hand
| smoking is one of the better known.
|
| I don't immediately see Asian American women being exposed to
| additional regional air pollution, asbestos, coal soot, or
| radon more than others.
|
| There could be a race-linked genetic factor, but I'm not
| aware of Asian women that are non-American having a higher
| rate. So I don't see why it would be something like...
| aspirated cooking oils fumes or natural gas fumes while
| cooking. Do Asian American households have a significantly
| higher likelihood of natural gas stoves? Do they have
| cultural histories of certain kinds of make-up or body
| treatments like talc?
| samatman wrote:
| > _as far as risk factors for lung cancer, second-hand
| smoking is one of the better known._
|
| The risk is real and measurable, but to put that in
| perspective: the CDC summary says it increases risk by
| 20-30%, so 130% over baseline to take the higher number
| https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html
|
| For smokers, the risk is 15-30 times baseline, so 3000%
| over baseline for the high end
| https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/risk_factors.htm
|
| The article indicates a 260% increased all-factor risk for
| never-smoking Asian women, compared to White women. There
| has to be more going on than just second-hand smoke
| exposure.
| DonsDiscountGas wrote:
| IIRC the lifetime risk of lung cancer for smokers is more
| like 20%. For reference, among non-smokers the risk of lung
| cancer[0] is about 1%. So smoking is represents a 20x
| increase in risk.
|
| Around 80% of lung cancers are found in smokers and another
| 10% with heavy exposure to second-hand smoke. Smoking is the
| single largest risk factor for lung cancer.
|
| [0] All numbers are based on general population of US, so
| heavily white-skewed, I dunno about asian americans
| specifically.
| Zancarius wrote:
| I suspect part of this is because smokers, generally, don't
| always live long enough to actually _get_ cancer, and
| statistically their year-over-year cancer risk drops to the
| same as the general population when they do quit.
|
| However, COPD, once established, is irreversible.
|
| My dad was a long time smoker and it was COPD that eventually
| got him. He battled it for years after he quit.
| j-cheong wrote:
| If you live with a smoking man, then they shouldn't be counted
| in the nonsmoker category?
| eBombzor wrote:
| Anecdotal but can confirm that my Asian dad smokes a pack a
| day, with the window open, and it pretty much permeates the
| apartment, and we've all had issues with lung health. There's
| no doubt in my mind this is a huge factor.
|
| Sidenote but I haven't missed my father since I left home.
| Traditional old Asian men are possibly the worst humans ever.
| Pepe1vo wrote:
| > Traditional old Asian men are possibly the worst humans
| ever.
|
| That's, uh, quite a strong statement. What makes them worse
| than all the other humans?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| I'm assuming they are referring to "traditional old Asian
| culture" aka the combination of old patriarchal/sexist
| beliefs, a toxic workplace/exploitation culture, society-
| over-individual attitudes, and that topped up with a
| healthy dose of racism to xenophobia (depending on the
| country).
|
| I mean, some of this is rich to talk about given I'm
| European and most Western countries share _a lot_ of these
| traits, but from what I hear(d) from friends from Asia, it
| 's the "the needs of the society/family are more important
| than those of the individual" that they find the worst
| compared to the very individualist attitudes of Western
| countries.
| arrowsmith wrote:
| Are "society-over-individual values" really such an
| obviously bad thing?
| telchior wrote:
| "Society" in this context can also mean "a tiny number of
| primarily self-interested individuals". That tends to be
| evident when the most powerful or influential people also
| happen to be strict authoritarians.
| jhoechtl wrote:
| Already had that copied to quote it now to see you
| already did that.
|
| I think this item stands out in the enumeration and I
| honestly question if social behaviour over individualism
| is a bad thing.
| onlytime wrote:
| East Asian wars tend to be drastically more deadly than
| the wars of any other group. The Three Kingdoms War wiped
| China's population to 30% of what it once was, and had
| half the deaths of WWII in a world with two hundred
| million people instead of billions.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Oh, absolutely, and it can be seen for example in suicide
| rates [1], or the weird state of Japanese criminal
| justice where prosecutors will only go for nailed-shut
| cases so that they don't "lose face" (while society as a
| whole suffers) [2], not to mention the entire issue
| surrounding "forced confessions".
|
| [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/Youth-
| suicide...
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system
| _of_Jap...
| bllguo wrote:
| yes of course, the enlightened Americans are so much
| better at handling crime. pointing at western justice
| systems to say that western values are superior - this
| must be satire?
| UweSchmidt wrote:
| By definition, negative side effects that can be cherry-
| picked are more numerous and pronunced in an
| Individualist society, as the very point of Collectivism
| is to steer the crowds away from trouble, while
| Individualism tolerates a wider range of individual
| tragedies for the potential upside.
|
| Your examples were not well chosen anyway, as their
| relation to collectivism seems dubious, and US
| prosecutors also have high conviction rates without trial
| through threat of big punishment.
| ta_1138 wrote:
| Individualism in western countries varies quite a bit. In
| cross-country scores, Spain has numbers far closer to the
| middle east than to the US, and then Peru is closer to
| China than to Spain!
|
| So your invdidualism argument is only strong if by
| western, you mean the anglosphere, the Netherlands and
| Belgium.
| papertokyo wrote:
| This is indeed surprising. What's the source?
| UweSchmidt wrote:
| A shallow and superficial comment in a subthread that
| took the wrong turn. Casually applying nasty labels in an
| act of self-loathing from a fellow German. Oh no, our
| toxic workplaces, truly funny. Our beloved individualism
| that has little regard for society as a whole left,
| consequences of that showing up more and more, how dare
| the old asian guy hold on to the old ways. "Xenophobia"
| in the face of mass immigration that is handled terribly
| etc.
|
| Actually take your criteria and apply them fairly to some
| of the other cultures around the world. And let the old
| guy smoke (outside). He is not the worst human ever,
| that's for sure.
| hackeraccount wrote:
| I remember when I was a kid one of my friends telling me he
| hated his parents. How old are you in the 8th grade? 13, 14?
| That's how old we were. I'm sure I didn't say anything - what
| could I say? - but it seemed totally incomprehensible to me.
| It would be as if he had said he hated himself. How could
| you?
|
| My parents aren't saints. They're no less human then I am.
| Like my wife and my kid they're people that are so easy to
| forgive. It's so easy to rationalize away anything they do.
| It's just tiny bit easier to forgive myself then them and I
| don't see how it could be otherwise.
| somethoughts wrote:
| Not sure about the validity of the source but it does suggest
| that second hand smoke could be related.
|
| "What's behind this rise in lung cancer in women who have never
| smoked compared with men, and particularly in Asian American
| women? One possibility: While Chinese American women may never
| smoke themselves, they frequently live with partners or family
| members who do. (About 28% of Chinese American men smoke
| heavily, Dr. Li said.) "We think secondhand smoke might be one
| of the key risk factors, because they're living with people who
| smoke," Dr. Li said." [1]
|
| [1] https://www.chestnet.org/newsroom/blog/2024/03/secondhand-
| sm...
|
| I could see a possible scenario where a first generation (i.e.
| immigrant, English as a second language) Asian father/husband
| smoking at home in the 1990-2010 timeframe and not getting the
| second hand smoking messages/ads (that were primarily in
| English as quickly) as the rest of Americans and it's is just
| now that the statistics are showing up.
| woodruffw wrote:
| This is what I first thought of as well, but other sources
| indicate that Asian Americans are actually the demographic with
| the _least_ overall cigarette use[1]. Given that White and
| Black Americans use cigarettes at almost twice the rate Asian
| Americans do, we 'd expect strong second-hand correlations for
| those groups as well.
|
| (This source doesn't quantify "use," so there are confounding
| factors: prevalence of smoking at home, chain smoking vs.
| social smoking, etc.)
|
| [1]: https://smokingcessationleadership.ucsf.edu/racialethnic-
| min...
| jbverschoor wrote:
| The number of people I met who say they don't smoke, but
| actually do...
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Yeah but this should be the same increase in diagnosis amongst
| other non-smokers, or closer
|
| My hypothesis would be environmental plus genetic, given that
| our east Asian phenotype population is small and consolidated
| to small areas of the country. NYC, Socal
|
| Maybe we should look at increase in lung cancers in those areas
| specifically
| lambdaba wrote:
| Wasn't there something about some seed oil fumes being toxic?
| Maybe it's related to some cooking practices. Highly speculative
| but the cooking oil toxicity is well-known.
|
| [edit] found this with a quick search, seems relevant: Exposure
| to Cooking Oil Fumes and Oxidative Damages: A Longitudinal Study
| in Chinese Military Cooks
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4029104/
|
| [edit 2] and indeed the article mentions it, although just in
| passing, still my hunch would go towards this as it seems a more
| specific factor than the others that are mentioned
| peteradio wrote:
| Gas ranges aren't the only range that needs to be vented, all
| need it.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| I was surprised about this when I moved to the USA. We cooked
| on electricity in Belgium, and there was a range hood.
|
| Then you come here and you start to look at apartments and
| there is no hood at all. Weird.
|
| Or you see a microwave with a vent that vents inside.
|
| Makes you wonder whether a mandatory range hood that vents
| outside is better than a gas range ban...
| taeric wrote:
| Absolutely! Having only gotten into a house with a well
| done vent going outside recently, it is alarming how much
| cleaner everything in the kitchen is. Heck, I'm pretty sure
| the entire house shows signs that we don't have as much oil
| residue as we had in our previous houses.
|
| Now... there is also the eye opener that is cleaning the
| range hood for the first time. Holy crap.
| peteradio wrote:
| Yes, and having installed one myself, its no picnic so I
| can understand why there would be a pushback against that
| and instead scapegoating the gas range. But really its
| insane how much crap gets into the air when you cook
| anything indoors on any type of range.
| enhancer wrote:
| What type of cooking oil does that?
| lambdaba wrote:
| Seed oils mainly, a factor of the lower smoke point. The only
| suitable plant oils in this regard are olive and coconut oil
| - which are fruit oils.
|
| [edit] seed oils r bad skeptics can just double check - the
| top 3 highest smoke point oils are all fruit oils, with seed
| oils at a distance - with the exception of peanut oil, which
| is closer.
|
| The smoke point is also not the only relevant factor, the
| fatty acid makeup is also important, high omega-6 oils are
| more likely to oxidize, coconut oil for instance is high in
| saturated fat, olive oil is mainly monounsaturated.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Most seed oils have a higher smoking point, as compared to
| olive oil.
| probably_jesus wrote:
| Yeah but it's about what the chemicals turn into when
| they reach a certain temperature, seed oils probably have
| something in them that is chemically different
| Iulioh wrote:
| Depends on how refined
| enhancer wrote:
| Damn so sesame oil or soybean oil? Those are essential is
| asian cuisine
| gavindean90 wrote:
| Use them as dressings but don't cook with it.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Soybean oil is very common in most American deep fried
| food.
| lambdaba wrote:
| I know it's not very HN of me but I want to point out
| your username is highly relevant to the discussion.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| I must admit, I cook all my food with Avocado oil. Unless
| EVOO can be used.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Understandable, it's delicious. It's great for salad
| seasonings too, but you're surely aware of that :P.
| thrill wrote:
| Give Zero Acre fermented ("cultured") oil a try.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Soybean oil is mentioned in the study. A lot of people
| get very angry when seed oil dangers are mentioned, it's
| hilariously politicized, the fact is these are not lindy
| at all, there is no tradition that would validate their
| safety, these are 20th century inventions.
| gruez wrote:
| >when seed oil dangers are mentioned, it's hilariously
| politicized
|
| ???
|
| Where are you seeing this? It's definitely controversial,
| but calling it "politicized" seems like a stretch.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Seed oil avoidance is right-wing coded, it's undeniable.
|
| To be clear, a segment of the online right-wing, I'm not
| saying literally half the population.
| wk_end wrote:
| Can you elaborate further? I think of myself as pretty
| online (sadly) and I haven't heard anyone, right or left,
| talk about the politics of seed oils.
|
| EDIT: should've searched first. Sigh.
|
| https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/is-
| see...
| gruez wrote:
| > Seed oil avoidance is right-wing coded, it's
| undeniable.
|
| Even taking that claim at face value, "right-wing coded"
| is hardly the same as "hilariously politicized". Living
| in rural areas is right-wing coded as well[1], but nobody
| would seriously call it "hilariously politicized",
| especially when you consider the broader context of the
| phrase:
|
| >A lot of people get very angry when seed oil dangers are
| mentioned, it's hilariously politicized
|
| [1] https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-
| polls/national-result...
| idiotsecant wrote:
| I am equally confused. I think there is a dumb but
| somewhat worrying trend of people's political identity
| becoming so pervasive that it absorbs secondary and
| tertiary opinions about completely unrelated things.
| lambdaba wrote:
| Yes, a large segment of conservatives have taken the
| place that previously left-wing hippies occupied wrt
| skepticism of mainstream health advice, and seed oils is
| a major subject, I would say even iconic, with places
| like Reddit vehemently disagreeing and calling it anti-
| science or whatever. I agree that it's unfortunate, but
| currently this previously left-wing impulse to favor
| "natural", "unprocessed" products is predominantly found
| in right-wing circles.
| plufz wrote:
| Yeah this is a really weird shift that has happened in a
| relatively short time. In Sweden we have strange groups
| of nazis and hippies that you wouldn't have thought would
| happen in a million years when I was a kid in the
| 80s/90s.
| Earw0rm wrote:
| Sunflower and groundnut oil is higher smoke point than
| olive.
| lambdaba wrote:
| See edit, it's indeed a factor of both fatty acid makeup
| and smoke point. Seed oils tend to have more PUFAs which
| oxidize easily. Olive oil, on the contrary, is not only
| mostly monounsaturated but also contains anti oxidant
| compounds that are protective (I think oleic acid, and
| others)
| Earw0rm wrote:
| enhancer - sesame oil is more used as a dressing/seasoning
| AIUI rather than a frying oil.
| mrob wrote:
| Smoke point is a measure of when obvious quantities of
| particles are emitted, not their chemical composition.
| Extra virgin olive oil has lower smoke point than refined
| olive oil, but it's more chemically stable under frying
| conditions:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20678538/
|
| However, you're correct that seed oils are generally less
| stable under frying conditions than other oils.
| pertymcpert wrote:
| I don't think that's the cause, it's more likely second
| hand smoke from Asian men who are atrocious smokers.
| foobarian wrote:
| Ugh, have to say goodbye to breath of the wok? Or make an
| outdoor kitchen I suppose.
| camillomiller wrote:
| Very empirical, but earlier this year I was talking to a Thai
| street food cook who mentioned he was scared of getting cancer
| from the cooking fumes, because he knew many people who were
| also cooks and got ill.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| N95s will definitely help in this situation.
| kazinator wrote:
| s/empirical/anecdotal/
| alephnerd wrote:
| Most likely this.
|
| Mustard Oil is critical for South Asian cooking and is labeled
| as "not for consumption" in the US.
|
| I also wonder how much is because of immigration and the
| pollution in the old country (even countries like South Korea
| and SG have horrid AQIs)
| snickerbockers wrote:
| that wouldn't be related to mustard gas, would it?
| adolph wrote:
| Full roundabout:
|
| _In the 1940s, sulfur mustard, commonly called mustard
| gas, and nitrogen mustard, a derivative of mustard gas,
| became a new form of cancer treatment._
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5325736/
| ianburrell wrote:
| Mustard oil and mustard gas are only related by color.
| Mustard oil is made from mustard seed. Mustard gas contains
| sulfur and nitrogen mustards which are yellow.
| Ductapemaster wrote:
| _Mustard oil is rich in unsaturated fatty acids, but it also
| contains a special type of fatty acid called erucic acid,
| which lies at the center of the controversy surrounding the
| oil. Seeds from the brassica family of plants, which includes
| rapeseed and mustard, in addition to cabbage and kale, all
| contain varying amounts of erucic acid. Early experimental
| studies on animals in the 1950s suggested that erucic acid
| possibly had a role in the development of heart disease._
|
| From: https://www.seriouseats.com/mustard-oil-guide (there's
| a lot more and it's worth a read)
| jejeyyy77 wrote:
| east asians don't use mustard oil
| alephnerd wrote:
| Notice how I said SOUTH, and how the article notes the same
| issue in Indian Americans
| mastazi wrote:
| but the article explains that the issue affects women
| from several different Asian American backgrounds, not
| just Indian Americans
|
| Edit - however sibling comment seems to indicate that
| East Asians use Rapeseed Oil which presents similar
| issues, so you might be onto something
| QuercusMax wrote:
| They use caiziyou, AKA roasted rapeseed oil, which has a
| high level of erucic acid, similar to mustard oil.
| (Rapeseed is a member of the mustard family. Canola is low-
| erucic acid rapeseed oil.)
| titanomachy wrote:
| Canola: CANadian Oil Low Acid
| RockCoach wrote:
| Rapeseed oil for cooking is a staple in Germany. If
| erucic acid or its thermal products are the cause, there
| would also be many cases of lung cancer in Germany.
| andyferris wrote:
| I think this is a naming thing, canola is an English word
| for a variety of rapeseed, and IIUC Germany uses the same
| food-safe version.
| bsza wrote:
| It probably also doesn't help that some cooking techniques,
| like wok hei, involve heating the oil past its burning point.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Wok hei isn't a home cook technique
| astrange wrote:
| It can be, but you have to mod your stove, and you're
| supposed to move it outside first.
| archagon wrote:
| Many stir fry recipes involve heating oil until smoking.
| why_at wrote:
| While this is definitely a possible explanation, I would
| hesitate to jump to any particular conclusions until further
| research is done on specific risk factors. The article also
| mentions air pollution as a possible cause:
|
| >For example, a 2019 study found that Asian Americans breathe
| in 73% more tiny pollution particles than white Americans, most
| likely because of greater exposure to construction, industry
| and vehicle emissions where they live.
|
| As you mention, there is some preliminary research which
| suggests cooking oil smoke could be related, but this is far
| from enough to definitively point towards it as the root cause,
| or even enough to justify your hunch I would argue. Also keep
| in mind there could be multiple causes of which cooking oil is
| just one part.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Except that it doesn't seem like Asian cooking practices have
| changed significantly in recent years.
| ahepp wrote:
| A graph in the article is captioned:
|
| > A study of nearly 4,000 non-smoking women found that the share
| of Asian American women who developed lung cancer was more than
| twice that of white women.
|
| And then proceeds to list "53.4%" for Asian.
|
| Are we to believe that in a sample of "nearly 4,000 non-smoking
| women", over half of the Asian American women developed lung
| cancer?
|
| Elsewhere in the article it is said that
|
| > Among Asian American women who have lung cancer, more than 50%
| have never smoked"
|
| Those seem like completely different things to me...
| x0x0 wrote:
| I think what it means, and the graph is unclear, is that of the
| A-A women who developed lung cancer, 53% don't smoke.
|
| It's P(non-smoking | lung cancer, ethnicity)
| ahepp wrote:
| I think your interpretation is correct, but I'm not convinced
| it's just a matter of ambiguity. It looks to me like the
| caption on the graph is stating something that simply isn't
| true.
| alphairys wrote:
| You're right on the graph. The graph in the article is very
| misleading, especially the N=4000 non-smokers.
|
| If you look the table in the source paper, 53.4% of 296
| Asian American Female (Single Group) lung-cancer patients
| are non-smokers.
|
| Also, share of lung-cancer patients being non-smoker vs.
| smoker being higher in Asian american females, does not
| necessarily mean they're more likely to get lung-cancer.
| This assumes the non-smoking vs. smoking population is the
| same in teh general population, which it isn't.
| erehweb wrote:
| Correct, looking at the original document
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8530225/ -
| search for 53.4 in that
| jncfhnb wrote:
| It is saying that 53.4% of the non smoking women that developed
| cancer in the study were Asian.
|
| It is a dumb stat to chart without contextualizing that Asians
| were 15.92% of the entire study population.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8530225/table/T...
| ahepp wrote:
| My interpretation of the underlying study is that 53.4% of
| the asian women who developed cancer in the study were
| nonsmokers, which I believe is subtly different from what you
| said.
|
| But I think what NBC wrote on the graph is pretty
| unambiguous, that 53.4% of nonsmoking asian women in the
| study developed cancer. They titled the graph "Lung cancer
| among nonsmokers, by race" when it should really be
| "Nonsmoking among Lung Cancers, by race".
|
| Or do you think between the title, caption, and data, their
| chart is presented in a way that can be argued is correct? It
| doesn't seem like it to me.
| lupire wrote:
| It's a lost cause. No one labels charts correctly when
| presenting complex conditionals breakdowns. It's impossible
| to cram the proper grammar into the brief titles.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Well your interpretation is not correct as you can validate
| because I posted the source table for you.
|
| 53.4% is the share of non smoking women who got lung cancer
| in the study that were Asian.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| I am sure this inevitably is going to blame Asian cooking, but
| one important factor here is that the women surveyed were 40-70
| year old. It is important, because a huge portion of these women
| would be first generation immigrants. That is important to know
| because first generation immigrants from decades ago are more
| likely to have a lower socioeconomic living conditions. Life in
| Asia with higher pollution and lower safety standards, life in
| America in poor neighborhoods with exposure to pollution,
| asbestos, and other carcinogens are all likely contributing
| factors.
| huytersd wrote:
| It's still strange. It's not like Asian women in America are
| cooking on wood fire stoves.
| theossuary wrote:
| Cooking on a gas stove without proper ventilation is terrible
| for you. My stove didn't have a hood when I moved in,
| inspection didn't even call it out to fix. But I started
| getting dizzy and feeling sick in my house; and had to
| install air sensors before I realized it was cooking that was
| absolutely destroying my air quality. Like from 2ppm to
| 1000ppm down the hall in the office.
|
| The whole "they're coming to steal your stoves" thing started
| for a reason, without proper ventilation to the outside
| (which just isn't that common in the US), cooking can destroy
| your lungs, even today.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| The first thing that popped into my mind is that in the city
| nearest me, Chinatown was bisected by a freeway back in the 80s
| (opening in 1991). That'll be a bunch of new carcinogens in the
| air concentrated around that specific neighborhood.
| engineer_22 wrote:
| Spending too much time in the LA metro area
| kingspact wrote:
| No, they're smoking behind their parents backs when they're
| young, and they're not telling their doctors, because Asian
| Americans, like many minorities, tend to patronize doctors of
| their own ethnicity and those doctors know their parents.
|
| Start doing autopsies on them - oh wait that's forbidden in their
| culture.
| stevev wrote:
| Hairspray that are toxic and poison.
| d_burfoot wrote:
| It's worth noting in this context that Asian-American women are
| by far the longest-lived demographic group overall. Asians have a
| combined life expectancy of 86 years in the US, and women
| generally have a 4-5 year advantage relative to men.
|
| [0]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health_in_the_United_...
| attentive wrote:
| Nobody mentioned it, but some Asians are heavy incense burners.
| It can't be too good for their health.
| keepamovin wrote:
| I have a bizarre theory that 1 - 1.5 packs of cigarettes per
| _year_ is actually beneficial for health. This theory has two
| parts:
|
| - small amounts of nicotine occsaionnaly are excellent for the
| brain
|
| - the innoculatory effects of small occasional acute exposure to
| toxins and carcinogens preemptively activates and trains your
| body and its immune system to respond to the types of things that
| cause damage. Basically by activating the damage repair systems
| occasionally under a mild stressor you keep yourself inoculated
| against seemingly damage-associated conditions.
|
| I'll let y'all know how it's going in 200 years or so :)
| hackeraccount wrote:
| I have a similar theory about car accidents. I get in one every
| couple of years because I think that I'll be able react more
| quickly to them if I'd never experienced it at all. :-).
|
| Slightly more seriously, I hope your cigarette plan works out
| for you.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| Exactly, or like allowing your kid occasional exposure to
| allergens hoping it will help them avoid allergies and asthma
| later on.
|
| In reality of course, no amount of cleanliness could possibly
| be too clean.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Very glad to see some people trying to do some research on this
| population cohort of Asian American women who never smoked.
|
| It would help if we had a clearer idea of what cancer is. Some
| cancers are known to be caused by viruses. Maybe someday they
| will have clearer distinctions between viral cancers and other
| cancers and that will help solve mysteries like this one.
|
| I'm frankly surprised by this. The only thing I had ever heard of
| was the _Japanese smoking paradox_ where Japanese people smoke at
| higher rates and have lower rates of lung cancer. How or if that
| relates to this, I don 't know.
| baduongnham wrote:
| I see a lot of comments being made on here that are highly
| speculative of actual Asian American culture coming from users
| who - from their post histories - are not Asian. It's a lot of
| hearsay, and none of it is lived experience. The views that we
| "smoke behind our parents backs", or "burn a lot of incense", or
| "cook with a wok" are dated and archaic takes on what our lives
| are like. To the users making these comments - have you ever been
| in an Asian household?
| andy99 wrote:
| Nail salons?
| mastazi wrote:
| My wife is Thai, we now live in Australia.
|
| Back in Thailand she and her mother often used coal for cooking
| (which is listed in the article as a possible cause) but after
| moving to Australia, she no longer used it because it is
| impractical (the coal is hard to find, the type of stove used for
| cooking with coal is not readily available, neighbours would
| complain about the smoke, etc etc).
|
| I imagine that most other Asian women who migrated to Western
| countries face a similar situation and no longer use coal on a
| daily basis.
|
| Also, I am sceptical that cooking oils could be a factor, it
| seems to me that, at least in the parts of Asia where I have
| lived, the types of cooking oils used are similar to the ones
| used in the West. I have seen the comments about mustard oil but
| its usage seems to be limited to certain countries or regions and
| not widespread everywhere in Asia, whereas according to the
| article, the issue affects women from various countries from
| India to China.
|
| EDIT - however some of the comments indicate that other oils, not
| just mustard oil, also present similar health challenges and they
| are widely used in several Asian cooking traditions.
| syngrog66 wrote:
| should not be on Hacker News
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