[HN Gopher] N. Korean hackers breached 10 defense contractors in...
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       N. Korean hackers breached 10 defense contractors in South for
       months
        
       Author : hassanahmad
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2024-04-24 18:37 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (english.hani.co.kr)
 (TXT) w3m dump (english.hani.co.kr)
        
       | verisimi wrote:
       | So simple for police to establish the location of hackers....
        
         | HenryBemis wrote:
         | Well, yes, but not really. Also, please elaborate.. and
         | assuming that the Police of X country has evidence that the
         | hackers are in Y country, it's not 'that' easy to get them
         | arrested, tried, convicted. Is it?
        
           | Eji1700 wrote:
           | I mean...it literally says in the title they're from N.
           | Korea. So it's not like we don't know where they are, and we
           | all know the US government can do mostly fuck all about that,
           | so not sure what point OP was trying to make.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | These aren't street cops, this is South Korea's national police
         | agency, not unlike the FBI. They have the expertise and
         | resources to investigate internet crimes, and an 8 billion
         | dollar budget. And they also sometimes work with international
         | partners.
        
       | HenryBemis wrote:
       | > ..outsourcing relationships with them..
       | 
       | One of my latest gigs was on Third-Party Security. For years and
       | years companies (especially banks) were giving little to no
       | attention to third-party security/privacy. I've happily seen that
       | over the past 5 years most (mega-big) banks have taken it "all
       | the way up to 11".
       | 
       | Hackers are smart people, why hack company X with 50 people on
       | their SOC and not hack a vendor that is lazy and clumsy? (and in
       | some cases it's 5 guys with laptops behind a cheap never-hardened
       | router in some random country)
        
         | hangonhn wrote:
         | Oh and then when they get breached they will send me a letter
         | informing me and say it was their vendor's fault.
         | 
         | No, buddy. That's still on you.
        
         | manvillej wrote:
         | Third Party Risk is a big deal these days. Especially with the
         | rise in supply chain attacks
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | That's the primary thing a contractor does: get breached. They
       | also cost the same as an employee, but are usually less talented
       | or at least less integrated within the organization. Somehow, the
       | moment you become an executive, contractors become an appealing
       | option due to some unknowable black magic.
        
         | Rinzler89 wrote:
         | _> due to some unknowable black magic_
         | 
         | That "black magic" is just different budget pools.
         | 
         | Taxpayers and shareholders hate seeing lots of highly paid
         | people on the payroll, so instead, you have very few full time
         | employees (usually managers) that fit within your limited
         | hiring budget dictated from the top to show you're a lean and
         | responsible organization that doesn't waste money, and then you
         | have a lot of even more expensive external contractors to
         | balance your needs that are part of a different budget that's
         | less scrutinized because those are not _YOUR_ employees, they
         | 're just soulless bills in an Excel sheet, like the one for
         | catering, cleaning, maintenance, etc. which are rubber stamped
         | and nobody looks at.
         | 
         | Blame our capitalist society for hating to see people on the
         | payroll, assuming it automatically means inefficiency.
        
           | Eji1700 wrote:
           | Yeeeeeup.
           | 
           | And even better, contractors often cost VASTLY MORE than an
           | employee because you've got a shit ton of middle man overhead
           | to cover (their HR, their benefits, their managers, etc).
           | 
           | It's darkly funny how much of modern business management is
           | really just knowing how to get the right numbers in front of
           | the right people. I've worked at far too many places that
           | have someone who ONLY looks at payroll and wants to make sure
           | it doesn't go up too much. "Everything else" isn't their
           | concern, so all those projects get bloated with consultants
           | that just fall under project budgets.
        
         | KittenInABox wrote:
         | Contractors are appealing because they don't have the same
         | legal liabilities or expectations as an employee. You don't
         | have to worry about PTO, 401k, healthcare, sick days,
         | overworking, family leave, mandatory breaks, respecting any
         | unionization attempts, etc. You don't have to worry about
         | withholding their wages for things like taxes, social security,
         | etc.
        
           | HankB99 wrote:
           | When the need for their talents is gone, you just cut them
           | loose. (Likewise if the company hits a budget crunch as
           | well.)
        
         | GartzenDeHaes wrote:
         | Use of contractors allow for outsourcing of blame.
        
         | resource_waste wrote:
         | "That's the primary thing a contractor does: get breached. They
         | also cost the same as an employee, but are usually less
         | talented"
         | 
         | Is this exclusive to government work?
         | 
         | In my industry the employees are the people who are less
         | talented and basically have to stick around at the same job
         | until retirement. They 'dont think they can learn a new job'.
         | 
         | These are engineers too. Mind boggling.
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | "Contractor" here just means a company that does business with
         | the government. Google and Microsoft are both contractors for
         | the US govt.
        
       | resource_waste wrote:
       | I have no idea what to do about tech security. The holes will
       | seemingly always exist unless we go back to safety critical code.
       | 
       | Its far easier to be a hacker than a programmer of the same
       | economic/political influence. You can take the second or third
       | tier of programmers and they will be able to get you into a
       | system.
       | 
       | My only thought is to only prevent non-anonymous entry, require
       | some real world presence, and have capachas between commands...
       | This doesnt scale.
        
         | mamonster wrote:
         | The main problem is that most companies are still not spending
         | anywhere near enough on cyber. Even the big boys(mostly because
         | until they actually get hacked they have no idea how much value
         | they have at risk and IMO gov fines for this are nowhere near
         | big enough) like systemic banks are way behind where they
         | really need to be.
         | 
         | The problem with cybersecurity is that if you have no breaches
         | its a "great" item for some striver manager to cut and if you
         | get breached the budget will go up, but the guy in the
         | cybersecurity department will at a minimum get told off and
         | held back, and likely fired.
        
       | vondur wrote:
       | Serious question, how hard would it be to block all data from
       | North Korea, or do they piggy back on other networks?
        
         | manvillej wrote:
         | yes, hackers will use VPNs.
        
         | chankstein38 wrote:
         | I was wondering this too! Like could we just turn off North
         | Korea's international internet?
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | North Korean hackers often operate from different countries.
        
           | mamonster wrote:
           | If China and Russia were willing to play along then sure.
        
           | protomolecule wrote:
           | You, Americans, need to stop having the illusion that you own
           | the internet.
        
         | wood_spirit wrote:
         | It would be technically straightforward for China to put a stop
         | to the current crop of NK hacker groups.
        
       | spxneo wrote:
       | despite being allies, big reason why Americans do not trust or
       | share sensitive information with South Korea-whatever they share
       | always ends up in North Korea and China
       | 
       | but perhaps the biggest enablers of these security lapses aren't
       | just the shoddy cybersecurity management but the political
       | environment
       | 
       | anytime you try to fix or address an issue, the opposition party
       | will take contrarian stance without merit.
       | 
       | no political party in america will disagree with the events of
       | 9/11 yet in south korea disagreeing/contrarian stance is the
       | default because they have premature understanding of what
       | democracy is (ex.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking - imagine if a
       | major American political party started refuting the events of
       | 9/11 and defending Al Qaeda!)
       | 
       | so its no wonder that stuff like this will result in no arrests
       | and waste valuable tax dollars.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | A lot of Korean govt tech is also just protected by defense in
         | depth instead of strong principles. It's kinda sad that
         | Japanese organizations that by most standards are much more
         | behind SK in digitization tend to at least have half decent
         | security fundamentals. Hell, a misconfigured key exchange in
         | their switch took down the entire government for 4 days because
         | they couldn't even find it.
         | 
         | One jarring thing I heard from friends is the hacky MDM the
         | ROKA would try to install on phones of conscripts who are
         | serving. Instead of undermining the default security measures
         | they should just ban all outside interconnected devices or buy
         | a half decent MDM instead, but then again the contract wouldn't
         | go to some politically connected dev consultancy.
         | 
         | ROKA (and a lot of Korean government institutions) are just
         | plain incompetent at long term maintenance tbh (which makes
         | sense as most infra in SK is newish - only 30-50 years old at
         | most).
         | 
         | They should also just end KATUSA which is clearly being abused
         | by the politically connected.
        
           | spxneo wrote:
           | another quality insider info, greatly appreciated alephnerd!
        
           | laborcontract wrote:
           | Can you elaborate or provide a link to the KATUSA stuff?
        
         | mamonster wrote:
         | >they have premature understanding of what democracy is
         | 
         | SK's problem is that unlike Japan with zaibatsu there was
         | basically no movement/attempt to delimitate the powers of
         | chaebols. Result: You "average" SK person is quite happy to
         | launch into "deep state" related topics and has been ready to
         | do so for the last (at least) 20 years. I've spent quite a bit
         | of time there and a lot of the people I met have "shady
         | oligarchy nudges the country" as their default image of the
         | political landscape.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | Don't be too sure about your assessment of American politics.
         | We have one major political party who is at least half in the
         | bag for Russia during a war of aggression.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-24 23:02 UTC)