[HN Gopher] Other People's Problems
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Other People's Problems
        
       Author : pmzy
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2024-04-24 06:57 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (seths.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (seths.blog)
        
       | yetihehe wrote:
       | Tip: when your solution contains "just (do something)", it's
       | never that simple.
        
         | athenot wrote:
         | Yes! I'm always reminded of "Just is a Dangerous Word", from
         | the original wiki:
         | 
         | https://wiki.c2.com/?JustIsaDangerousWord
        
         | ChildOfChaos wrote:
         | And also a counter point, just because things are simple,
         | doesn't mean it is easy.
         | 
         | Those two things are separate and we often get them confused,
         | when things are hard, we think it must be more complex than it
         | is, which is not usually the case.
        
         | arkh wrote:
         | When estimating time for a task, every occurrence of the word
         | "just" doubles the estimate.
         | 
         | "Just" always hide a lack of knowledge. Of the problem, of the
         | environment, of the team, of what the future will be.
        
           | fargle wrote:
           | that's cute, and it is often true. but not "always".
           | 
           | sometimes when a group gets "wrapped around the axle" and the
           | proposed thing is spiraling out of control (usually due to
           | hallucinated requirements or group anxiety feeding on
           | itself), "Just <simple option>" is _EXACTLY_ what is needed,
           | especially from a confident leader.
        
             | yetihehe wrote:
             | Yes, but <simple option> is not <action>. "Just implement
             | it" may be said in spite of required complexity, "Implement
             | just this one option out of many" is typically already
             | defined and is a narrowing of scope.
        
               | BeFlatXIII wrote:
               | I agree. Grammar matters. "Just do this one thing" is
               | worthless blather while "do just this one thing, then
               | consider next steps" is a necessary call to focus.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | As a person with problems: "just do the thing" would solve
         | about 90% of them. Unfortunately I'm spending all my time on
         | other priorities/problems that I also have.
         | 
         | Just do the thing is a lot more powerful than people realize.
         | That doesn't mean it's _easy_. But it is often _simple_.
        
           | mewpmewp2 wrote:
           | That is Nike for you.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | Reddit advice threads are famous for this. Just quit your job
         | and get a new one. Just divorce your SO of 10 years and try
         | again. Just pick up sticks and move somewhere else. Easy-peasy,
         | right?
        
           | ChildOfChaos wrote:
           | There was a thread yesterday which was on /r/getmotivated,
           | the typical word spew from a teenager who had started a
           | newsletter.
           | 
           | Advising people that all they had to do is outlast everyone
           | and that was easy because everyone else quit.
           | 
           | They didn't seem to understand the difference between simple
           | and easy, when I mentioned that was the hard part and the
           | reason everyone else was quitting was because it was hard,
           | there response was that 'they just needed discipline, which
           | is easy'.
           | 
           | So glad we have genius level thinking out there that has
           | solved all of life's issues.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | The solution to being overweight is simple. Eat less. But it
         | ain't easy.
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | Or, perhaps we could entertain a fantastical explanation: what if
       | no one has free will and thus someone else's problems seem easy
       | to us because our deterministic movements solve them easier than
       | the deterministic movements of the person with the problem?
        
         | JadeNB wrote:
         | But the claimed phenomenon here is that it's (almost) always
         | easier for you to come up with a solution to someone else's
         | problem than for them to do so, not just that some problems are
         | easier for one person than another. There are problems with
         | this claim, I think, but the absence of free will is not an
         | explanation, or at best just reduces it to the question of why,
         | granting the claim, the determinism (almost) always leads to
         | this bias.
         | 
         | (For that matter, nothing in the linked article depends on
         | whether or not we have free will.)
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | The outside with the solution doesn't have to live with the
           | result and likely doesn't comprehend the un-stated nuances of
           | the situation.
           | 
           | That makes problem solving easy.
        
             | JadeNB wrote:
             | > The outside with the solution doesn't have to live with
             | the result and likely doesn't comprehend the un-stated
             | nuances of the situation.
             | 
             | Yes, that's the kind of thing I had in mind by saying that
             | I thought that there were problems with the claim.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | That would just move the question *, not give an answer.
         | 
         | * to: "OK, and why would our deterministic movements solve them
         | easier than the deterministic movements of the person with the
         | problem?"
        
           | vouaobrasil wrote:
           | Selection bias: people tend to talk about the problems that
           | are hard, and we tend to see the ones that we can solve.
           | (Okay, this has nothing to do with free will I guess...)
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | My general experience is often people think problems are easy to
       | solve from the outside because they just don't understand the
       | problem.
       | 
       | Thus you can often find communities of people with disabilities
       | who understand the problems and the people from the outside who
       | offer insulting and simple solutions to the problems.
       | 
       | As soon as someone falls from group B into group A the problems
       | stop becoming simple and easily soluble though.
        
         | mft_ wrote:
         | I agree with you, although his first point is a subset of this,
         | I think.
         | 
         | In reality, it's something like _" they don't understand the
         | problem space"_, which includes not just not understanding the
         | problem itself, but also understanding the history, context,
         | and realistic daily details of the problem, _and_ the real or
         | imagined blocks that are created by personal philosophy,
         | mindset, and psychology, plus the impact of relationships,
         | biases, etc...
        
           | throwway120385 wrote:
           | As an example of "not understanding the problem space" it's
           | mind-blowing sometimes to think about how a _disability_ is
           | only a disability in the context of a particular way of
           | living. If you 're confined to a wheelchair and all the work
           | surfaces and other affordances are above neck level for you,
           | then it's a disability. But if those work surfaces are moved
           | and extra space provided it's not a disability in that
           | environment. It's just that people outside of a wheelchair
           | can't identify the little assumptions and design features
           | that accommodate them because they're the default in our
           | culture.
        
         | richrichie wrote:
         | It goes both ways. And some times it is simple that the insider
         | cannot see for a host of reasons. Outsider can spot a simple
         | solution because they dont have self imposed constraints that
         | come from being on the inside for long.
        
           | jprete wrote:
           | The insider constraints are real, though. Sometimes they're
           | self-imposed, and that can be for good reasons (value system,
           | long-term goals) or bad reasons (emotionally stuck, a
           | disproportionate fear of small risks, etc.).
        
         | PopAlongKid wrote:
         | >Thus you can often find communities of people with
         | disabilities
         | 
         | I find it odd to immediately distill this down to "group A with
         | disabilities" and "group B without". Both groups have problems,
         | maybe just different ones. I also don't see what is insulting
         | about making a sincere attempt to help, whether it ends up
         | being helpful or not.
        
           | WJW wrote:
           | The insulting bit comes when people with an insufficient
           | understanding of the problem come in and offer "solutions"
           | that anyone could have dreamed up in 5 minutes, thereby
           | implying that the new person either thinks the group with the
           | problem is stupid for not coming up with such an obvious
           | solution themselves.
           | 
           | It's often the grown-up equivalent of a child learning about
           | a longstanding religious conflict and offering "why don't
           | they just all be friends instead" as a solution.
        
             | andrelaszlo wrote:
             | Why can't they (we) though? :(
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | There are exceptions, though. For example, my advice is
             | always welcome and apropos.
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | > I also don't see what is insulting about making a sincere
           | attempt to help, whether it ends up being helpful or not.
           | 
           | It's the equivalent of people wanting to escort you across a
           | road without getting run over. They don't think you're
           | capable of understanding the risks of crossing a road.
           | 
           | Or giving someone in a wheelchair tips on how to walk
           | normally.
           | 
           | Or your completely tech illiterate grandparent telling you
           | how to write code. (Yes, this has happened to me.)
           | 
           | A lot of people I've dealt with have no interest
           | understanding the problem. They just want to do the easy
           | thing that feels good to them. When what they expect doesn't
           | happen, they feel bad and expect me to make them feel better.
           | 
           | Similarly, this pattern always happens around food. It's not
           | uncommon I can't eat any of the food at a social event. I'm
           | used to that and I'm not bothered by it. But everyone else
           | feels bad for me and decides to tell me so. No matter how
           | much I say I'm fine, they keep apologizing because they feel
           | guilty. Of course, I can't tell them to stop making _their_
           | feelings _my_ problem.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | > It's not uncommon I can't eat any of the food at a social
             | event. I'm used to that and I'm not bothered by it. But
             | everyone else feels bad for me and decides to tell me so.
             | 
             | Being vegetarian seems to generate this problem.
        
             | PopAlongKid wrote:
             | I don't consider any of your extreme examples as "a sincere
             | attempt to help". Maybe I should rephrase it as "sincere,
             | _reasonable_ attempt to help ".
             | 
             | I guess there is also a distinction to be made between
             | problems to be solved, and currently acceptable, non-
             | problematic situations where you receive unsolicited advice
             | on how to improve it.
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | The problem with unsolicited advice is:
               | 
               | 1. I didn't ask for it.
               | 
               | 2. They didn't bother to understand the problem.
               | 
               | 3. Now I am socially obligated to talk to them.
               | 
               | 4. I have stop everything I'm thinking about to figure
               | out how to respond to them in a way that doesn't make
               | them feel bad.
               | 
               | This seems grossly unfair to me. Social norms that don't
               | come naturally to me. They are allowed say anything they
               | want and I'm not allowed to reject it.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | You could also go the 'autistic' route -
               | 
               | Frown, and walk away while they're talking.
               | 
               | Or
               | 
               | Deeply analyze why they're wrong and they know it. In
               | front of them, where they can hear you do it.
               | 
               | You'll get hate, but what else is new?
               | 
               | You could also just lie, say 'oh that's good advice' and
               | then ignore it like most normal people.
               | 
               | Or, figure out what painful personal failure they are
               | trying to warn you about from their side, with no real
               | solution they've been able to figure out. And see if
               | there is some lesson you can learn from it.
               | 
               | Wait, am I giving unsolicited advice now?
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | I would like to point you to #2. :)
               | 
               | I understand what neurotypical people feel but I am
               | unable to predict it without logical analysis.
               | 
               | Thus,
               | 
               | I fully understand social norms but I am not capable of
               | following them in realtime.
               | 
               | Absolutely none of your unsolicited advice is even
               | remotely useful to me because my current strategy of
               | building logic trees and memorizing appropriate responses
               | is far superior to anything you suggest. :P
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | And yet....
               | 
               | You're not happy, because you're here complaining about
               | it. So perhaps it isn't as superior as you want to
               | believe? QED.
               | 
               | (As someone who does the same sometimes, like apparently
               | right now. Sorry.)
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | That has no bearing on this entire discussion.
               | 
               | I am not happy I have to play by social norms. However,
               | playing by those norms is the optimal solution in
               | maintaining important relationships with people I care
               | about.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Ah, but it is directly applicable no? Showing the issue,
               | even.
               | 
               | Why do you care about relationships at all except for
               | your short/long term emotional needs, safety, etc?
               | 
               | Because #2 then is not actually optimal or perfect then
               | for that stated goal, correct? It isn't playing to social
               | norms.
               | 
               | #3 and #4 tend to produce better outcomes in that sense.
               | And #4 also can provide useful contextual information on
               | a person, which is necessary for having a real
               | relationship with them.
               | 
               | So isn't hating these kinds of interactions, actually
               | hating the difficulty you have in meeting
               | emotional/relationship needs naturally? Instead of having
               | of do exhausting rational work all the time while
               | emotionally disliking (or even hating) it for reasons
               | that are nearly impossible to see?
               | 
               | And this discussion is me demonstrating that. Because now
               | you hate me, eh? But not because _I'm wrong_. But because
               | it's a truth you don't know how to change or make better,
               | and for which knowing makes it more painful - as it
               | strips away the comforting self image.
               | 
               | Interestingly, despite what folks say, this also appears
               | to be why a lot of people get so angry when someone
               | offers unsolicited advice.
               | 
               | Because it's often a solution that could work, if it
               | wasn't for the problem they had that they can't seem to
               | fix - because it hurts too much even seeing it.
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | > Why do you care about relationships at all except for
               | your short/long term emotional needs, safety, etc?
               | 
               | Because I care about people as people. They have their
               | own lives. Their existence isn't defined by their utility
               | to me.
               | 
               | I just can't instinctively navigate verbal communication
               | and social norms. I had to learn everything through
               | logical analysis, which is very slow and difficult to
               | apply in real time.
               | 
               | It's no different than if I had a significant speech
               | impediment. My dislike of social norms is solely due to
               | the barriers it creates to communication.
               | 
               | And no, I don't hate you. I'm just frustrated with the
               | assumptions you're making.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Then I'm deeply sorry, as you're disconnected from a deep
               | well of non-rational (really 'not ok to acknowledge
               | socially' but rational) protective instincts. It makes
               | everything much harder. That's why you're having to
               | compensate with relatively expensive rational analysis.
               | 
               | Personally, I've found EMDR to be helpful to reconnect,
               | but it's not an easy road. And it may not be applicable
               | here either.
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | Yeah, but your advice is actually useful :-)
        
               | omoikane wrote:
               | Often, the problem is with the persons offering the
               | solution not seeing things from the perspective of the
               | people receiving them. The helper felt that they were
               | sincere in their intent, but their intentions aren't
               | always desirable. Related:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_w
               | ith...
               | 
               | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Verschlimmbesserung
        
           | mft_ wrote:
           | Insulting is a emotional judgement, and j=such judgements may
           | be specific to certain communities who are especially
           | disadvantaged, or maybe receive such 'advice' very regularly?
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | To take the emotions out, I had witnessed an interesting
           | exchange a while back.
           | 
           | A startup dealing with removing plastic from the oceans
           | posted on LinkedIn about their work, and highlighted the
           | difficulty of sorting the different types of plastic (so they
           | could be subsequently dealt with appropriately). Their
           | current method was simply humans sorting the plastic
           | manually, by sight.
           | 
           | An LinkedIn acqaintance thought he had a solution for them,
           | and tried to get in touch with the startup. He was gently but
           | firmly rebuffed, and was very upset that the organisation
           | didn't "give him anyone senior" to deal with. His ego was
           | bruised. The funny thing was, the startup was totally
           | correct. This guy is a marketing consultant with (I know)
           | zero domain knowledge of anything related to plastics,
           | recycling, computer vision, robotics, etc. He was just an
           | arrogant guy who absolutely didn't understand anything
           | relevant in the problem space.. and yet still thought he
           | needed to get involved and offer his opinions and ideas.
           | 
           | Was his approach insulting? Not in this case, but potentially
           | so, in more sensitive areas. More than anything, it was a
           | powerful example of the Dunning-Kreuger effect in action. :)
        
           | terr-dav wrote:
           | "Communities of people with disabilities" sounds like a self-
           | identified group whose members share common experiences of
           | dealing with people without disabilities. "Immediately
           | distilling it down to..." is an interesting way to describe
           | someone sharing an example while making a broader point.
           | 
           | Whether something is insulting depends on the particular
           | interaction and how the recipient of the 'help' feels about
           | and perceives the attempt to help.
           | 
           | I've been learning the importance of consent in any
           | intervention. Without consent, my attempts to help a person
           | may be perceived as an act of taking control, overriding the
           | other person's will.
           | 
           | > Both groups have problems, maybe just different ones.
           | 
           | So my problem might be a lack of perspective that is
           | characteristic of privilege, and their problem might be me;
           | sincerely, innocently & naively making their situation worse.
        
         | jprete wrote:
         | This is my thought as well. The author means well but doesn't
         | know what he doesn't know. Simple answers look good from the
         | outside because it's hard to explain (and understand) all the
         | constraints on a good solution.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > My general experience is often people think problems are easy
         | to solve from the outside because they just don't understand
         | the problem.
         | 
         | This.
         | 
         | And not just for personal problems. I have a rule when I start
         | working in a new place to not offer any real criticisms or
         | unsolicited advice for the first year. This is because it's
         | very likely that my advice is too naive and is coming from a
         | place of being ignorant of some aspect of the work that is the
         | reason why people are doing something "wrong" in the first
         | place. Being there for a year is enough to clue me in to those
         | hidden variables so that I can make recommendations that have a
         | chance of being useful.
        
           | samus wrote:
           | I think you might doing some disservice by not pointing out
           | such things. Outsider's perspective can be very valuable to
           | improve processes.
           | 
           | Even if there are good reasons why things are how they are,
           | you'll find out much faster why. Contrary to when interacting
           | with people where advice is often simply not wanted, you are
           | pretty much _paid_ to treat an organization 's problem as
           | your own. Sometimes problems persist because people simply
           | have stopped caring about them.
           | 
           | I think the most common reason might be toxic or ineffective
           | management, fighting their own problems, real or imagined.
           | Newcomers should read the room whether that's the case as
           | fast as possible since in that case offering "solutions"
           | could indeed be counterproductive or outright dangerous to
           | one's career.
        
             | okwhateverdude wrote:
             | > I think the most common reason might be toxic or
             | ineffective management, fighting their own problems, real
             | or imagined. Newcomers should read the room whether that's
             | the case as fast as possible since in that case offering
             | "solutions" could indeed be counterproductive or outright
             | dangerous to one's career.
             | 
             | This. I am currently facing such a problem having very
             | recently joined a new company. They recently had a very
             | expensive incident and would like to not repeat it. I was
             | handed an analysis task for the system that caused the
             | incident with the expectation for me to make
             | recommendations to improve the reliability. And, so far, my
             | recommendation would be to refactor/rewrite large chunks of
             | it (reduce cyclomatic complexity, greater test coverage and
             | from the perspective of use cases, strict exception
             | handling, fully documented state chart with all transitions
             | validated, etc). When I gave a status update on my analysis
             | that isn't finished yet, my manager was concerned that I
             | would recommend exactly what I am going to recommend.
             | 
             | So now I am kinda stuck. Do I openly say exactly what they
             | don't want to hear even if I was tasked to do exactly that?
             | Luckily, I don't really give a shit about "career"
             | nonsense, I am too old for that. But at the same time, I do
             | want to build credibility and social capital in this org.
             | My experience in building highly scalable, resilient
             | systems says that the current implementation is sub par,
             | and it shows with amount of break-fix work the team is
             | constantly doing. I don't really want to be Cassandra and
             | say "If you don't do this, the risk of another catastrophic
             | error is really high". And I don't have enough data or time
             | in the org to know what kind of persuasive arguments tend
             | to find sympathetic ears.
             | 
             | So I have to gamble a bit, follow my principles, and
             | honestly explain why their system is shit, in palatable
             | terms, and hope they don't give me the boot.
             | 
             | It is stressful and I hate it.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | _> My general experience is often people think problems are
         | easy to solve from the outside because they just don 't
         | understand the problem._
         | 
         | There's an old H. L. Mencken quote:
         | 
         |  _" There's always an easy solution to every human problem;
         | Neat, plausible and wrong."_
         | 
         | And another one of my faves:
         | 
         |  _" The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the
         | world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports
         | the strong probability that yours is a fake."_
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | > often people think problems are easy to solve from the
         | outside because they just don't understand the problem
         | 
         | May I suggest the book "The Innovators Dilemma". Sometimes
         | people who don't understand the problem manage to solve it in a
         | much better way.
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Manag...
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | He forgot one of the most obvious reasons:
       | 
       | we, as a third party, don't have the extra stress associated with
       | having the problem (or having to deal with the consequences of
       | any potential solution). So we can think without those anxieties
       | and more impartially.
        
         | n4r9 wrote:
         | Nailed it. That's why imagining what you'd say if someone else
         | had the same problem - or what _they_ would suggest if you
         | explained your problem - are effective problem-solbing
         | techniques.
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | It is easier to help someone else organize their house than to
         | organize your own.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | Sure, like my sister in law who moved all the yellow books
           | together. Fiction, all different non-fiction, different
           | series - all over the place, but the shelf looks nice by
           | color even though I can't find anything without reading every
           | title.
        
       | richrichie wrote:
       | Outsider (to the novice swimmer): Just breathe, you are not
       | breathing.
       | 
       | Novice swimmer to himself: Yeah right, but thats the problem, i
       | have no idea how to breathe.
        
       | scblock wrote:
       | This is amazing. It starts with rightly understanding that
       | problems aren't actually as simple as they might seem from
       | outside. But then it bizarrely seems to take that to conclude
       | that our friends aren't trying for inertia or fear or something
       | else, and so they just need to get unstuck.
       | 
       | It seems to me that the far more reasonable and understandable
       | conclusion is that our friends are much like us. Things aren't as
       | easy as they may seem from the outside.
        
       | sebastianconcpt wrote:
       | The ramifications of dependencies and the trivial and hidden
       | costs of modifying (refactoring) these are why is "easy" for one
       | and "hard" for the other one.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Because when you try to solve people's problems, you imagine this
       | simplified rule set, but in reality the rules you don't see is
       | what makes it difficult for the actual bearer.
       | 
       | Doesn't mean you shouldn't try, but make sure you are not
       | insulting someone's intelligence by over simplifying the problem.
       | This means you need to really get to understand their issue
       | before chirping.
        
       | jmbwell wrote:
       | It's true that sometimes an outsider can offer a fresh
       | perspective. From where you sit, there might be a solution you
       | can't see. The nearest exit might be in the row behind you.
       | 
       | Maybe this applies more often when the one giving advice has more
       | experience than the one receiving it, or when the person who is
       | stuck has habituated a narrow perspective or some form of learned
       | helplessness.
       | 
       | But I recoil at something I think I see more often, which is when
       | several people stand around pointing out the obvious and
       | congratulating each other on their fresh ideas and wondering
       | what's so hard for the guy who has lived the situation and would
       | love to find a way forward if there were the right resources or
       | the right change in policies or the right change in politics. The
       | peanut gallery loses interest pretty quickly when faced with
       | questions about the real constraints and it turns out their
       | answers are not fresh at all.
       | 
       | But now we have someone who's "marinating in the stuck,"
       | surrounded by people who still agree with each other that they
       | know how it should all be done but have now _also_ been
       | embarrassed.
       | 
       | It's an ugly, toxic cycle that bottoms out at everyone constantly
       | having their knowledge and competence questioned over things they
       | know and can do, by people who don't and can't.
       | 
       | If someone is stuck, ask if you can help, sure. Ask what seems to
       | be the trouble. Ask what has been tried so far. But maybe don't
       | lead with your advice.
        
         | zackmorris wrote:
         | Ya the blogger falls for a fallacy that I often see from people
         | who consider themselves smart, especially in tech: that they
         | are somehow more clever/insightful/effective than other people
         | and know how everything should work.
         | 
         | But as I've gotten older and more experienced, I've come to
         | understand that everyone is uniquely talented and brilliant in
         | some way. The vast majority of people are just vulnerable to
         | becoming trapped in situations that are nontrivial to change,
         | due to their own life choices yes, but just as often due to
         | external circumstances and empathy for how following their
         | desires might impact those around them.
         | 
         | This phenomenon presents as survivorship bias, the epitome of
         | which is some rich person or billionaire telling young people
         | that they could afford rent or a mortgage by giving up avocado
         | toast. When the truth is that companies like RealPage formed a
         | price-fixing cartel using algorithms to set rents in most major
         | cities in the US, despite dwellings sitting empty, because it's
         | more profitable to capitalize on a smaller number of high
         | rents. Now they are being sued by attorneys general around the
         | country.
         | 
         | This othering/prejudice extends to homelessness where people
         | blame drugs instead of economic injustice, or mistreatment of
         | the elderly where they think they should have paid more into
         | their retirement rather than seeing that 30% of their life
         | savings got wiped out after the pandemic due to corporate greed
         | inflation and soon stagflation.
         | 
         | This isn't the tech dystopia I signed up for. In my experience,
         | people are wealthy due to their ruthlessness, not their
         | business acumen, but maybe those are the same thing. I think
         | often now about how to stop this algorithm-driven late stage
         | capitalism, but by definition it may be too late. Going off
         | grid via solarpunk might be a great individual strategy, but
         | it's similar to not voting, in that the people profiting from
         | the decline in the human condition do better without the
         | innovators. I feel now that eternal vigilance, mainly through
         | organizing, is the only way that we'll actually reclaim the
         | economic liberty that we used to enjoy.
         | 
         | These broad connections are what I see any time I read these
         | truthy/quippy essays now.
        
           | jahewson wrote:
           | Ironically, most of what you've said here is false because
           | it's government in the driving seat, not business. The
           | infamous avocado toast incident was regarding a mortgage down
           | payment, not rent. That's due to the post-2008 asset bubble
           | created by central banks.
           | 
           | If you think fentanyl is not a critical component of the US'
           | homelessness crisis I don't know what to say - go to Europe,
           | the homeless there are not in a zombie-like state. There's no
           | compassion in ignoring people's real problems and instead
           | blaming them on our own political gripes. The festering of
           | this problem is a product of bad government.
           | 
           | As for retirement savings - are you kidding me? Pensions are
           | the most protected assets on this planet - no matter how hard
           | they fail they will be bailed out. That inflation you speak
           | of is, again, due to all that post-2008 money from the
           | government. Interest rates are set by the central bank. (No
           | doubt some unfortunate people had to draw-down their
           | retirement savings but they're the exception that proves the
           | rule). For the first time in history we will have an economy
           | where money is flowing up from the young to the old, rather
           | than downwards - it is the young people who are being
           | exploited! The children who will pay for this don't even get
           | a vote.
           | 
           | The real problem I see here is that people vote themselves
           | all the money whenever they get the chance, with governments
           | able to pile on more and more debt to be paid by future
           | generations. Plus a government that is more interested in
           | ideological posturing than solving problems - unless the
           | solution is more government.
        
             | nemothekid wrote:
             | It's strange to absolve "business" and then blame the
             | government for problems caused by business.
             | 
             | First the post-2008 asset bubble; why does that exist?
             | Lenders became extremely lax with credit requirements and
             | created an incredibly toxic debt bubble. Sure you can argue
             | the bailouts and subsequent low interest rate environment
             | maybe have been the wrong medicine, but it's easy to say
             | that in hindsight when at the time several people had been
             | wiped out.
             | 
             | > _If you think fentanyl is not a critical component of the
             | US' homelessness crisis I don't know what to say_
             | 
             | Why is fentanyl a problem in the US? I think it's insincere
             | to pretend Purdue didn't have an outsized effect on this
             | problem. They pushed opioids on doctors and flooded rural
             | america with oxycontin. Once addicted Americans could no
             | longer get oxycontin, they turned to heroin, and the
             | increased demand of heroin created the conditions for
             | fentanyl to flood the market.
             | 
             | > _Pensions are the most protected assets on this planet_
             | 
             | 401(k) _were_ almost completely wiped out in 2008. Why
             | focus on pensions when most people 's retirement vehicles
             | today are tax-deferred investment accounts?
             | 
             | Businesses are free create deeply systemic issues and when
             | those behind the issues are rich and the problems
             | externalized onto the rest of the country, we are free to
             | turn around and blame the "bad" government.
             | 
             | It's like licking a door handle and blaming the human body
             | in the "drivers seat" for cells dying when it raises the
             | internal temperature to 102 degrees. How about instead of
             | blaming the immune system for the 102 degree fever, we just
             | don't lick door handles?
        
               | OkayPhysicist wrote:
               | People often confuse "predictable" with "not at fault".
               | Your drug addict cousin will, very predictably, steal
               | shit when they visit. It's a matter of prudence to keep
               | them away from your valuables, but it's still their fault
               | for stealing. Likewise, corporations will very
               | predictably be astoundingly evil if they can make a buck
               | at it, so the government is obligated to keep them in
               | line, but it doesn't absolve the companies from being at
               | fault.
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | > due to corporate greed inflation
           | 
           | The inflation is the inevitable result of flooding the
           | economy with trillions of dollars in freshly printed money.
           | It happens every time the printing press is run like that, in
           | every country, throughout history.
           | 
           | > we'll actually reclaim the economic liberty that we used to
           | enjoy
           | 
           | Having the government run the economy is not economic
           | liberty.
        
             | pc86 wrote:
             | Isn't it funny that everyone right of center thinks
             | inflation is due to trillions of dollars added to the
             | economy and everyone left of center thinks inflation is due
             | to people in 3-piece suits and monocles wanting another
             | boat?
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Why can't it be both?
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | The Law of Supply and Demand.
               | 
               | For example, open a lemonade stand in your neighborhood.
               | Charge $20 a cup. See how it goes.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | How about I run a bunch of fear ads and sell ammo for
               | $20/box instead. I think we both know how it will go on
               | that one.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Where are the people that think inflation is inevitable
               | because there is always a political push from the most
               | active political constituency (old people/about to be old
               | people/their beneficiaries) to keep asset prices rising
               | to be able to fulfill their demands from labor suppliers
               | (younger, less experienced, less politically active)?
               | 
               | Especially entertaining with the way demographics are
               | going. It wasn't much of an issue in previous decades due
               | to momentum of population growth.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | Some moderate level of inflation is a pretty basic
               | economic principle. Too much and you cause some problems
               | but none or negative and you see a whole host of other
               | issues.
               | 
               | That's like saying the fact the first couple payments on
               | a loan are almost all interest because of a conspiracy
               | among politically active bankers, when in actuality it's
               | because that's how math works.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Yes, small positive inflation is better than any negative
               | inflation. But the inflation in land/education/healthcare
               | is quite a bit more than that.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | > Some moderate level of inflation is a pretty basic
               | economic principle
               | 
               | The US had zero net inflation from 1800 to 1914, and
               | fantastic prosperity.
        
         | csbbbb wrote:
         | "Just get more sleep."
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | I'm skipping avocado toast!
        
             | kevindamm wrote:
             | I've skipped skipping avocado toast, I just look for good
             | deals on avocado and buy limes no matter what their price
             | is.
        
               | jmbwell wrote:
               | No matter the price? No wonder we're drowning in
               | limeflation!
        
               | kevindamm wrote:
               | I would sooner not buy the bread and just eat
               | avocado+lime+salt! Limeflation be damned.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | As you say this can cut both ways. A good example would be the
         | US where people constantly wonder whether $thing-that-29-out-
         | of-30-developed-countries-do-since-decades could truly work.
         | Yeah it works, we have seen it work, it is currently working.
         | 
         | Now imagine you are a software developer entering the offices
         | of a group of bueraucratic clercs that keep an intricate fax-
         | and-scanner-based system of bullshit just barely afloat. _Of
         | course_ as a person that is specialized on thinking about the
         | storage, transformation, santitizarion, transmission and
         | deletion of data you are going to probably have a slightly more
         | sophisticated take on information processing than them. They
         | might know the law better or which combinations of checkboxes a
         | person is allowed to tick on a form, but they suck at the meta
         | task of organizing the efficient, fast and error free flow,
         | storage, deletion, etc of information. And sure now one could
         | argue about the merrits of paper (and I routinely argue it 's
         | merrits for democratic elections, where correctness and
         | traceability are more important than speed), but that would be
         | like arguing for making doctors use medival hand tools in the
         | age of the scalpel.
         | 
         | Now it is true that outsiders to a system won't see what
         | reasons there are for a certain thing being shaped a certain
         | way, but this can sometimes even happen to insiders if the
         | information handover is bad enough.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | The argument from what other countries have done can often be
           | used simplistically. Yes, it's important to learn from other
           | countries. However, when you look into it, it sometimes turns
           | out that the other 29 countries have all done things in
           | somewhat different ways, that their solutions are somewhat
           | path-dependent and culture-specific, that they have problems
           | too, and your country has some unique problems of its own
           | that are hard to overcome.
        
             | atoav wrote:
             | Yeah, sure. You cannot translate what works in Sweden one
             | to one to the US and expect the same success. But here is
             | what you could do: realize that the cultural differences
             | between Turkey, France, Australia, Ireland, Japan, Finland,
             | UK, Germany, Poland, Austria, Italy, Croatia, Belgium and
             | so on are very likely not less than the difference between
             | the US to all of these countries. And yet, _some_ things US
             | citizens claim can 't _ever_ work do so in very different
             | cultures, under various right or left wing governments and
             | in different climate zones.
             | 
             | But keep on telling yourself the story that the US is so
             | exceptional that reasonable conservative policies that work
             | everywhere else can't work. This is likely just going to
             | work out great in the long run.
        
         | Quimoniz wrote:
         | > It's an ugly, toxic cycle that bottoms out at everyone
         | constantly having their knowledge and competence questioned
         | over things they know and can do, by people who don't and
         | can't.
         | 
         | That rings so true in my head. Being too open and transparent
         | got me quite a lot of misery already. More than once, I got the
         | work of months discarded, because some other (shiny or new)
         | approach was deemed to provide a better solution -- only to the
         | effect that it was later discovered that it was the worse
         | approach.
         | 
         | Apparently it is very easy to miss in the pursuit for the best
         | solution, in unfortunate favor of one's preconceived notions.
        
         | methyl wrote:
         | This is why it's critical to provide new angles to the problem
         | itself, not just a bunch of solutions many of which has
         | obviously been considered already.
        
           | flawn wrote:
           | You're so right. Thanks for this perspective
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I dislike "other people's solutions", because frequently they
         | are shallow.
         | 
         | It's sort of like internet relationship advice.
         | 
         | It tends to lack nuance, like "if you can't agree on a couch to
         | buy, you should leave the relationship".
         | 
         | > But maybe don't lead with your advice.
         | 
         | Unsolicited advice is a pretty big relationship friction
         | generator.
        
         | ozim wrote:
         | I tend to ask in rapid succession if obvious solutions were
         | used. It gives me warmup time to think about more detail.
         | 
         | Unfortunately people get annoyed when they ask for help and
         | someone offers them 10 solutions they already have tried.
         | 
         | But often one of the obvious was not tried or considered so the
         | person gets quick solution. Otherwise warmup to think more in
         | details and ask follow-up questions why some of "obvious"
         | solutions did not work gives great intro to get up and fix
         | something.
        
       | cat_plus_plus wrote:
       | Local maxima and sunk costs should not in reality be ignored. For
       | example, I could find a better job, but with opportunity costs of
       | paying less attention to my health or my family for a couple of
       | years, and it may be difficult to fully recapture these
       | opportunities later. Or say, I made an effort to get to know my
       | current coworkers well. New job may have better pay and more
       | respect from higher ups, but that's still one thing where I would
       | have to start from scratch with no guarantee of equally good
       | results.
       | 
       | It's one thing to look at each problem in isolation, it's another
       | to live a good life overall, which may entail many tradeoffs
       | between different problems.
        
         | Tijdreiziger wrote:
         | The way I've been thinking about this is that you shouldn't
         | jump on every idea you have.
         | 
         | You can acknowledge the ideas, but if you jump on every one
         | that comes to mind, your life ends up being extremely chaotic.
         | 
         | However, if you find yourself thinking about a certain idea a
         | lot of times, it might be worth considering it, because your
         | subconscious might be trying to tell you something.
        
       | Amorymeltzer wrote:
       | I'll forever think of Douglas Adams and the Somebody Else's
       | Problem (SEP) field[1]:
       | 
       | >An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain
       | doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's
       | problem. That's what SEP means. Somebody Else's Problem. The
       | brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.
       | 
       | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_else%27s_problem
        
       | nate wrote:
       | Relatedly, there's interesting research on "self-distancing".
       | Like https://selfcontrol.psych.lsa.umich.edu/wp-
       | content/uploads/2...
       | 
       | Talking to yourself by Name or in second person like you are
       | talking to a friend seems to have a positive way of changing your
       | perspective and allowing you to regulate your emotions and deal
       | with something more rationally.
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | > Talking to yourself by Name or in second person
         | 
         | but that guy is crazy and never listens to anything i say! ;)
        
       | JeremyJaydan wrote:
       | I've also seen this phenomenon. I wonder if hopelessness and
       | hopefulness is relevant since the focus seems to be the
       | difficulty of coming up with solutions.
       | 
       | I suppose this just shifts the question to.. are we typically
       | more hopeful for others than of ourselves and if so why?
       | 
       | Hopeful = helpful?
        
         | nuancebydefault wrote:
         | If we have a problem ourselves, we sometimes block out, often
         | obvious, solutions! I read somewhere : what can help is, ask
         | yourself, what advice would I give if that problem were a
         | problem of a friend. And that works! Suddenly you have, at
         | least, a less biased view on the problem, or even the solution!
        
       | loa_in_ wrote:
       | It's like we're not designed or supposed to be alone with the
       | burden of anything
        
       | watwut wrote:
       | Yet other reason is that it is super easy to imagine you solved
       | your friends problem and that the friend is just stupid or weak
       | for not trying. You just simplify the situation in your head,
       | apply simple solution and it works - in your head.
       | 
       | It is much harder to actually solve that problem back in the real
       | world.
        
       | reify wrote:
       | Utter BS. Who is this idiot talking about?
       | 
       | "FIRST, because we're unaware of all the real and imaginary
       | boundaries our friends have set up."
       | 
       | very dismissive and demeaning of the real life experiences of
       | people.
       | 
       | I have worked with hundreds of people as a therapist that do not
       | have any psychological problems but are effected by social
       | problems imposed upon them by government.
       | 
       | This was the area that I struggled with most.
       | 
       | An example:
       | 
       | A Single parent, Husband abandoned her, has 4 kids under 10 years
       | old. Comes to therapy thinking she is a failure because she
       | cannot provide for her children.
       | 
       | In the UK you do not get any extra benefits after the second
       | child, meaning that if you are poor you only get support for your
       | first 2 children.
       | 
       | After a few weeks of therapy I realise that all this woman needs
       | is an extra PS50 each week to privide all that her children need.
       | 
       | New warm clothing for the winter, new shoes, school uniforms and
       | hearty meals each night etc etc.
       | 
       | The idiot goes on to say:
       | 
       | "When we care enough to solve our own problem, we'll loosen the
       | unloosenable constraints and embrace the new challenges to come."
       | 
       | Bollocks mate!
        
         | generic92034 wrote:
         | > In the UK you do not get any extra benefits after the second
         | child, meaning that if you are poor you only get support for
         | your first 2 children.
         | 
         | With a total fertility rate of 1.74 (2017 figure) that seems to
         | be a strange regulation.
        
       | navane wrote:
       | "Loosening the constraints always makes a problem easier to
       | solve."
       | 
       | Due to job deformation, I cannot agree. Tight constraints make
       | for easy solving. However, loose constraints allow more change.
       | And ultimately, change is what people are looking for.
       | 
       | Additionally, when looking at others we see them as their own
       | free agent, but looking at ourselves we see us as constrained in
       | a system.
        
       | js8 wrote:
       | I love solving other people's problems. If I succeed, they are
       | usually happy. If I fail, it is, after all, someone else's
       | problem. It's a proposition you cannot lose.
        
       | RobRivera wrote:
       | I am so down with OPP
        
       | marviel wrote:
       | tangential, but this reminds me of the "Somebody Else's Problem
       | field" in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy:
       | 
       | > An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain
       | doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's
       | problem. That's what SEP means. Somebody Else's Problem. The
       | brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.
       | 
       | > The Somebody Else's Problem field... relies on people's natural
       | predisposition not to see anything they don't want to, weren't
       | expecting, or can't explain. If Effrafax had painted the mountain
       | pink and erected a cheap and simple Somebody Else's Problem field
       | on it, then people would have walked past the mountain, round it,
       | even over it, and simply never have noticed that the thing was
       | there.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_else%27s_problem?wpro...
        
       | chasd00 wrote:
       | The devil is in the details and, at the end of the day, the
       | person with the problem is the one who has to solve it. Even
       | armed with great advice that's not an easy task or it wouldn't be
       | a problem to begin with.
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Related: volunteering is a good way to get out of your own head.
       | Putting your concerns to the side and helping the community can
       | do wonders for your mental health (not to mention gain new
       | friends with similar interests).
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | As Steve Goodman sang:
       | 
       | And I saw the boss come a-walkin' down along that factory line
       | 
       | He said, "We all have to tighten up our belts."
       | 
       | But he didn't look any thinner than he did a year ago
       | 
       | And I wonder just how hungry that man felt
       | 
       | But he knows it ain't too hard to get along with somebody else's
       | troubles
       | 
       | And they don't make you lose any sleep at night
       | 
       | Just as long as fate is out there bustin' somebody' else's
       | bubbles
       | 
       | Everything is gonna be alright
        
       | deathanatos wrote:
       | It's sort of related, but too often other people's problems end
       | up forced into _being_ my problem.
       | 
       | Other people's problems are fun to solve when you're like "hey,
       | I've seen that before / I know something about your problem", and
       | I think I can advance you in your pursuit of a solution. Fun,
       | win/win for everybody.
       | 
       | But too often you try to use some product or service, either of
       | another company, or of another team at your company, and it
       | doesn't work. And the other team is just "but I don't
       | waaaaannnna" about figuring out why _their shit_ is broken. And
       | so it becomes your problem, because you 're probably trying to do
       | something that _isn 't_ shaving this teams yak, but here you are,
       | blocked on them. So it's either "do their job for them" or be
       | blocked by them.
       | 
       | And managerial chains are just, IME, utterly ineffective at
       | dealing with this. My current boss does not want to handle these,
       | _ever._ He wants me to fix the problem. Problem is I have no
       | authority over others teams, so I can 't _get_ them to act, and
       | so ... now it 's my problem! And soon I'm doing the work of 3
       | teams, it feels like, and shaving yaks all day.
       | 
       | Google, internally -- at least _way_ back in the day; I 've got
       | no idea if this is still a thing -- had a philosophy at several
       | levels of "it's _our_ problem ", and in internal team-to-team
       | stuff, that meant if a customer of your team's junk was having a
       | bad time, that was _your_ problem. Not your  "customers'",
       | internal or external. One of the many things I think that led
       | them to being a FAANG.
        
       | al_borland wrote:
       | It's easy to tell people how to solve their problem, as it
       | doesn't include the burden of actually doing the work.
       | 
       | The classic example would be that it's easy to solve someone
       | else's weight problem. Tell them to eat a proper diet of X, get
       | enough sleep, get to the gym X times per week, etc. Saying all
       | these things is very easy, but overcoming the barriers to
       | actually implement each one in a life isn't already doing these
       | things, is much harder.
       | 
       | Providing a path is much more difficult than walking the path.
        
       | throwaway2562 wrote:
       | I swear this guy is the pinnacle of cheap wisdom. There are VC's
       | who are worse, but Seth never fails to disappoint.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | There are funny videos of Swedish people advocating for
       | immigrants and then balking when being asked to commit to taking
       | an immigrant into their home.
       | 
       | I've found people are long on advice and short on actual help.
       | When people offer me advice, I usually turn it back around on
       | them to see if they are willing to help.
       | 
       | Recently I was taking care of some shared property repairs and
       | received a lot of complaints that the cost was too high. I asked
       | people for their help on finding a better price and , just as
       | expected, they couldn't.
       | 
       | Everything seems trivial and deterministic until you actually
       | embark on the solution. The hard part is actually completing the
       | task.
       | 
       | Lesson: the world is short on help. If you want to help, pick up
       | a broom. Lead, follow or get out of the way.
        
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