[HN Gopher] Petoi Bittle - a programmable robot dog
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       Petoi Bittle - a programmable robot dog
        
       Author : metalwhale
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2024-04-22 06:41 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.petoi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.petoi.com)
        
       | voidUpdate wrote:
       | Is it just me, or is $269 monstrously expensive for some
       | injection moulded plastic, plastic geared servo motors, an
       | arduino compatible board, a battery and some connectivity
       | modules?
        
         | lambdaone wrote:
         | I presume the value is in the associated open source software.
         | You could obviously build your own for less in hardware costs,
         | but once you've put in the effort of doing so, you will have
         | spent far more of your time on the project than the cost of the
         | ready-made product. You're paying for the bundling and the
         | convenience.
        
         | beambot wrote:
         | The Sony Aibo harkens back to the late 1990s. It was (roughly)
         | the same, but cost >$2000 in 1990s dollars. TLDR: It's not
         | expensive.
        
           | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
           | A luxury product for early adopters that looks great and
           | works out of the box does not seem roughly the same to me
           | than a device you still ultimately have to calibrate, expand
           | (the default model of this doesn't even have a camera iirc)
           | and program loads to do anything.
        
         | ginko wrote:
         | There's also PuppyPi which looks quite a bit more solid (but is
         | also more expensive)
         | 
         | https://www.hiwonder.com/products/puppypi?variant=3977603314...
        
           | beambot wrote:
           | Unitree Go2 for $1600 is wildly capable.
           | 
           | https://www.unitree.com/go2
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | Have you used it? What was the experience getting it into
             | the US?
        
         | M4v3R wrote:
         | The bill of materials might not come close to that number, but
         | materials are not the only cost when creating a hardware
         | product. In your end price you need to factor in stuff like
         | time spent on research, designing, testing, prototyping,
         | writing & debugging software. Then there's manufacturing,
         | packaging, storage, marketing and probably others. When you
         | take all these into account plus the fact that this will not
         | sell in millions of units, the price suddenly doesn't seem that
         | high.
         | 
         | And from a consumer point of view - a very technical person
         | could probably pull off something _similar_ to this, but the
         | amount of hours a project like this would take a single person
         | is probably in the hundreds and you would not approach the
         | quality of this unless you invested a lot of money into
         | equipment (assuming you don 't own high quality 3d printers and
         | other things required to build this).
        
         | lemper wrote:
         | bro how much did you pay for your car that is presumably around
         | 1000kg?
        
           | bArray wrote:
           | I'm not sure that is a good comparison. My old car cost ~$500
           | and weighed about 1000kg. If anything that is a comment on
           | consumerism and not the value of things.
           | 
           | The value of this platform comes from the R&D, scale,
           | support, packaged software, etc, etc.
           | 
           | Assuming they sell 10000 units at an average ~$300. At that
           | scale likely a $100 of each unit is in parts/tooling, then
           | assembly/flashing/testing. That's approximately $20mn to be
           | split by:
           | 
           | 1. Likely minimum team of 10 people on development for 4
           | years, at ~$100k per year (with overheads), for $4mn.
           | Kickstarter in 2020:
           | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/petoi/bittle
           | 
           | 2. Investors probably threw in $4mn along the way and look to
           | claw that back (couldn't find investment info on a quick
           | search).
           | 
           | 3. Tax appears to be ~20% in most places, so 20% of $30mn is
           | $6mn.
           | 
           | Leaving approximately $6mn, everybody gets a bump and they
           | are left with enough to expand and run the company for ~2-4
           | years without needing to raise additional investment. That's
           | a lot of pressure to get a new product out there.
        
         | dvh wrote:
         | If you sell hw products and you're not charging at least 4x
         | parts costs you will go bankrupt.
        
           | Rinzler89 wrote:
           | Your parent should really check out the BOM on his iPhone or
           | MacBook before complaining about $270 being "monstrously
           | expensive" hardware. And all those gadgets benefit from high
           | volume discounts on parts, decades of sunk R&D costs and the
           | volume economies of scale, assembled by sweatshop workers,
           | not niche low volume production runs for enthusiasts like
           | this one.
           | 
           | The price of Pizza at your local non-fast-food restaurant is
           | also significantly higher than that of the bulk raw
           | ingredients it's made of. Now also try adding the R&D costs
           | of inventing the Pizza to that see where that gets you.
        
             | voidUpdate wrote:
             | _she_ doesn 't have an iPhone or a MacBook because I do
             | think they're expensive. I buy my phones used on eBay and
             | cringe if they cost more than PS50
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | How you feel about your SO's phone pricing is besides the
               | point.
               | 
               | The point was that you don't understand the distinction
               | between the retail price of a product and raw BOM costs.
               | 
               | Please read the comments here trying to educate you.
        
               | voidUpdate wrote:
               | what do you mean about my SO? I was referring to myself
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | Sorry but you did refer to yourself at the third person
               | as "she", so how was anyone supposed to know?
        
               | voidUpdate wrote:
               | I was correcting "his iPhone or MacBook"
        
               | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
               | I still don't get it. Everyone here is male. Right?
        
               | Rinzler89 wrote:
               | Could be, but here I identify as strong independent Asian
               | woman.
        
               | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
               | Cool. I identify as a giant robot super monster cat.
        
               | UncleEntity wrote:
               | > I buy my phones used on eBay and cringe if they cost
               | more than PS50
               | 
               | I'm with you on this one, sister.
               | 
               | Don't even get me started on the kid down the street
               | selling lemonade...
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | Similar to how software engineers get paid $1000s just to keep
         | hitting the keyboard.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Excellent business opportunity for someone with your knowledge
        
         | imtringued wrote:
         | I wouldn't say it is monstrously expensive, but it is kind of
         | underwhelming at that price point. It doesn't even have three
         | degrees of freedom on its legs, which is what I would expect on
         | a basic quadruped.
        
           | regularfry wrote:
           | It's a tradeoff with size. It's very hard to squeeze shoulder
           | servos in and keep it that small.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | Kind of, compared to high-volume products most consumers are
         | used to see. R&D gets expensive fast.
         | 
         | Just try designing these up to first partial prototype and try
         | calculating cumulative man-hour spent x local minimum wages x
         | highly optimistic sales^-1 = pure R&D cost per unit before any
         | manufacturing or even design reviews. It's not going to make a
         | lot of commercial sense.
         | 
         | 3D printing people sometimes says dollar stores makes them feel
         | defeated. I'm not yet at that level but it's true, a 10-pack
         | ball point pens at $1 makes very little sense if you knew.
        
       | anfractuosity wrote:
       | I was looking at https://www.unitree.com/go2/ recently, which
       | seems rather good value I thought.
       | 
       | Some of the videos look really impressive, such as the back
       | flips, climbing stairs and the lidar
        
         | jbl0ndie wrote:
         | They do look impressive but the videos are all 3D graphics
         | rather than real. The texture on the robot body and shadows are
         | the giveaway.
        
           | anfractuosity wrote:
           | Interesting, I didn't actually realise that. Will await to
           | see some reviews :)
        
         | bArray wrote:
         | Looks like a cool platform, but you won't be paying $1600 USD
         | https://shop.unitree.com/en-gb/products/unitree-go2?variant=...
         | :
         | 
         | > $1,600.00 USD
         | 
         | > Shipping costs $399 per unit, Remote Countries $500-$1000
         | 
         | > Not include customs duties, Please comply with local customs
         | laws pay customs duties and clear the goods
         | 
         | By the time you are done, you will be paying between $2000 and
         | $3500 for the base model. It might still represent good value,
         | but it's still more than it is advertised.
        
           | UncleEntity wrote:
           | > Shipping costs $399 per unit
           | 
           | Do they send it by pack mule or something?
        
         | peppertree wrote:
         | $1600 version is just a remote control toy. If you want the ROS
         | programmable version it's around 10k.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | They have a repository on GH with some of their projects code.
       | The OpenCat page also contains information on how to calibrate
       | the servos using a serial monitor, so that one isn't dependent on
       | their phone app. Good! https://github.com/PetoiCamp
       | 
       | Now, what about an updated meow/purr version for us cat lovers?:)
        
         | macrolime wrote:
         | Looks like they also have a robot cat
         | https://www.petoi.com/products/petoi-nybble-robot-cat
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | Yes, I already noticed, but it looks a lot less polished than
           | the dog, and is also more expensive. Probably an older
           | product with higher prices, that's why I would welcome an
           | updated version.
        
       | l_j_w wrote:
       | I got one of these when I backed them on Kickstarter. It was a
       | fun build and works well. I gave it to one of my neighbors' kids
       | since I didn't really see myself using it all that much, and he
       | enjoys it.
        
         | snapcaster wrote:
         | How old do you think kids have to be to engage with this?
         | Considering buying one for my grandson who is pretty into
         | legos/tech/etc. but is only 7
        
       | orliesaurus wrote:
       | Ok but it doesnt say anywhere on that page what you can do with
       | the basic package?
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-23 23:01 UTC)