[HN Gopher] Doomscroller.xyz
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Doomscroller.xyz
        
       Author : arfrank
       Score  : 274 points
       Date   : 2024-04-20 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (doomscroller.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (doomscroller.xyz)
        
       | jerzmacow wrote:
       | This is really neat, I wonder how hard it would be to retool for
       | Android camera controls. There's an accessory for the iPhone to
       | get physical camera controls, but it's thicc
        
       | blfr wrote:
       | Amazing. I'm glad you don't ship outside of the US 'cause I would
       | be insanely tempted to buy this completely superfluous gadget.
       | Love everything about it, from the idea and its negative utility
       | to design and materials.
       | 
       | Are there any details available? Dimensions, charging, etc?
       | 
       | Actually, this can be used as a presentation clicker, right?
       | There you go, business expense.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | I looked at my site analytics and realized this is where it was
         | coming from :-o
         | 
         | I should turn on international shipment, but Stripe doesn't
         | support auto calculate rates. CNC machined from aluminum. USB
         | C. I did test it with powerpoint just now, works!
        
           | enderfusion wrote:
           | International turned on
        
           | redbell wrote:
           | Are you the author?
           | 
           | I noticed you've been adding additional information in
           | response to many comments, which led me to believe you might
           | be the creator of this doomscroller. However, I didn't see
           | any mention of you being the author.
           | 
           | Typically, on Hacker News, when the original poster is not
           | the author and the author discovers that one of their works
           | is trending, they promptly join the discussion, usually
           | starting with " _author here.._ "
           | 
           | This isn't a strict rule but more of a best practice or
           | convention.
           | 
           | Anyway, excellent work!
        
             | enderfusion wrote:
             | Good to know, I'm new here!
        
               | redbell wrote:
               | You're very welcome!
        
               | ncr100 wrote:
               | > user: enderfusion > created: July 21, 2015 > karma: 419
               | 
               | Interesting - and WELCOME!
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | > I looked at my site analytics ...
             | 
             | Is that not a way of saying "author here, ..."?
        
         | daemoens wrote:
         | It does ship internationally now.
        
         | oooyay wrote:
         | I really like imagining how people of the future (like hundreds
         | of years in the future) looking at our current culture and
         | technology will try to interpret things that I seem to get
         | without thinking. Like, if they dug up my home and found this
         | thing sitting in a drawer what kind of wild theories would they
         | come up before they eventually realized, "This human valued
         | something that actually did _less_ than nothing. "
        
       | pwdisswordfishc wrote:
       | But does it actually run Doom?
        
         | WaxProlix wrote:
         | Since it looks to be built on the ESP32 platform, the answer is
         | likely yes (but you'd need a display...)
         | https://github.com/espressif/esp32-doom
         | 
         | I think actually there are a couple of DOOM ports for the
         | platform.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | You could pan through an epic Doom game video capture? If you
         | like deterministic games.
        
       | pogue wrote:
       | I don't get it. What's it do?
        
         | huvarda wrote:
         | it just constantly scrolls down on your screen, its a gag
         | product
        
         | ataru wrote:
         | On the website there is a demo, when you spin the wheel, it
         | scrolls a screen on the right. The demo may be blocked by an
         | adblocker.
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | Oh, the demo doesn't load with uBlock Origin.
        
           | jakjak123 wrote:
           | Ah, yes the demo is blocked by uOrigin
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | I'd love if my cellphone had a lateral button like old portable
       | radios had to adjust the volume but with the sole purpose of
       | scrolling. Scrolling on the screen is annoying, my finger covers
       | the content and I must be careful not to click something. I
       | really can't believe I'm the only one desiring such a thing.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | A touch sensitive side would be great for thumb scrolling.
         | 
         | With software detection of coherent scroll sliding, filtering
         | out grip holds, bumps, and other irrelevant activity.
         | 
         | But noooo! Apple stuck a touch sensitive screen on a keyboard!
         | No justice.
        
           | jh00ker wrote:
           | My samsung phone has the fingerprint scanner in the side
           | power button (the only location that makes sense, IMHO).
           | Software should be able to read gestures from this same
           | sensor, no?
           | 
           | edit: Sorry, thinking out loud. A quick Google search
           | confirms that my phone already has this feature in settings.
           | Unfortunately, the gesture is mapped to showing/hiding the
           | notification panel, instead of screen scrolling.
        
         | janlukacs wrote:
         | you're welcome:
         | https://www.gsmarena.com/flashback_sony_ericsson_p910-news-5...
         | 
         | lateral scroll wheel. awesome phone:
         | 
         | https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/news/21/08/sony-ericsson-p9...
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Sony had these on their Clie (Palm OS) devices as well.
           | 
           | I've only ever had first-party Palm handhelds, but the scroll
           | wheel (Sony had some nifty name which is eluding me) always
           | seemed very appealing for single-handed use.
        
             | throwaway74354 wrote:
             | >Sony had some nifty name which is eluding me
             | 
             | Jog Dial
        
             | lloeki wrote:
             | Had a Palm III then a Clie back then. The Jog Dial was
             | absolutely awesome.
             | 
             | Then got a LifeDrive, missed every bit of the Jog Dial.
             | Probably the most iPhone-esque thing before the iPhone was
             | a thing though.
        
           | BossingAround wrote:
           | Oh man, these looked so awesome. I miss these phones
           | sometimes. There was something cool about seeing what
           | features different phones had. Nowadays, it's basically iOS
           | vs Android, where both OSes do pretty much the same things,
           | and it's all about the apps.
        
           | darkwater wrote:
           | I had a SonyEricsson P800 (the first of that series) and it
           | had the same wheel, but IIRC was plastic made (just like the
           | rest of the phone). Oh man I was barely 20yo back then and I
           | feel bad for the hype I had while waiting the phone to
           | actually come out and buy it. I also remember I paid an
           | insane amount of money for it, which then became standard a
           | few years later thanks to Apple.
        
         | yaky wrote:
         | Some old (pre-smart, pre-camera, chunky ones with small B&W LCD
         | screens) cell phones had a side scrollwheel that was used for
         | menu navigation. I think it was clickable too.
         | 
         | The only more modern take on that that I know of was Marshall's
         | "audiophile" Android phone [0] from 2015, which had a side
         | scrollwheel for volume, but not sure if it was used for
         | navigation.
         | 
         | 0:
         | https://m.gsmarena.com/marshalls_new_smartphone_is_every_aud...
        
           | kqr wrote:
           | Hm, I remember portable MP3 players with those. The wheel
           | broke fairly easily. Maybe they used cheap wheels in those,
           | and there are higher end wheels.
        
             | jasomill wrote:
             | The dials on all the "medium-end" digital cameras I've
             | owned always worked reliably despite many years of regular
             | use, as do mouse scroll wheels, so I gather you're correct
             | about cheap components.
             | 
             | Come to think of it, the scroll wheel on my Logitech G502
             | -- three-way clickable, switchable between free-scrolling
             | and traditional mode -- would work well in sort of handheld
             | hardware scrolling device, and an electromagnetic scroll
             | wheel of the sort used on some newer Logitech mice would
             | work even better, as it could be configured in a free-
             | scrolling mode with variable friction.
        
         | andenacitelli wrote:
         | Reminds me of when I jailbroke an old iPhone and the only thing
         | I really actually used the jailbreak for was making a long
         | press on the volume buttons a previous / next song button. I
         | actually really miss it.
        
         | Lorin wrote:
         | I always wondered if one could repurpose side-mounted
         | fingerprint sensors (ex. Samsung Galaxy Fold) as a swipe-to-
         | scroll mechanism.
         | 
         | There also used to be some lovely touchpad tech called "chiral
         | scroll", which allowed for iPod-like scrolling. No idea where
         | that went, patent hell?
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | > I always wondered if one could repurpose side-mounted
           | fingerprint sensors (ex. Samsung Galaxy Fold) as a swipe-to-
           | scroll mechanism.
           | 
           | Given how fp sensors are capacitive, this should totally be
           | doable. Several phones (including my pixel 5) allow using
           | rear fp sensors for opening/closing the notification shade.
           | 
           | > "chiral scroll"
           | 
           | Aah.. I miss that on my framework laptop. I had it on my old
           | HP ProBook in the Synaptics settings. Chiral and (1 finger)
           | edge scrolling were amazing. I'd suggest using ZMK/QMK and a
           | touchpad from mouser if anyone wants to DIY one today.
        
           | imp0cat wrote:
           | My last Samsung with a back-mounted fingerprint sensor (A40)
           | could do that (there was an option in the settings to enable
           | scrolling with the fingerprint sensor).
        
         | mrexroad wrote:
         | The Blackberry 7100t had a side scroll/job wheel like this
         | along with a body narrower than other blackberries thanks to
         | its 20 key qwerty-ish keyboard (2 characters per key). It still
         | ranks as one of my favorite mobile devices. Great ergonomics
         | paired with just enough web browsing capability to be helpful
         | during emergencies; I would spend my morning Metro ride touch
         | typing email drafts on it. It had its flaws of course, but the
         | side jog wheel and narrow physical keyboard added up a "spark"
         | of feeling like it was on to something.
         | 
         | Non sequitur: Another long forgotten device that still bounces
         | into my thoughts every so often is the Psion REVO. 8MB RAM,
         | 36MHz ARM processor, and full QWERTY keyboard that fit into
         | your (back) pocket --- better paper specs than the hand-me-down
         | 386sx I was using a few years before! One of these days I'll
         | dig though storage and see if I can resurrect it.
        
         | pwiecz wrote:
         | Another cool example is Nexus One's trackball. It had advantage
         | of being able to scroll in any direction.
        
           | jonhohle wrote:
           | You could make a device like the doom scroller that would
           | look like a roll on deodorant stick.
        
       | ciwolsey wrote:
       | Site doesn't even work on Android.
        
         | ffsm8 wrote:
         | It's not responsive, but it does work.
         | 
         | You just need to first click on the scroller element and then
         | you can start dragging it. And start by dragging up, not down.
         | Otherwise the refresh might override the interaction
        
       | hsavit1 wrote:
       | have you raised any capital for this project? i think a lot of
       | incubators could be interested in helping you enshittify this
       | idea.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | And end up like Humane? No thanks! It's at optimal shittiness
         | levels currently.
        
           | jrflowers wrote:
           | Product needs the ability to brick itself if a subscription
           | to the scrolling service expires
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | The whole thing cost me a few hundred bucks to put together.
        
           | Max-q wrote:
           | Is it legal to sell a device with radio in the US without FCC
           | certification?
           | 
           | In the EU it's illegal to sell without external certification
           | if the product is a medical device, is made for children or
           | contains a radio.
           | 
           | Certification will typically cost you $5,000-$15,000
           | depending on which lab you use.
        
             | littlestymaar wrote:
             | How does that works if you're just reusing off the shelf
             | bluetooth component? (that's likely already certified)
        
               | enderfusion wrote:
               | Off the shelf radio module, ain't nobody got time for
               | certs.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | Modules like ESP32-WROOM, Seeed XIAO ESP32C3, and ES2810AA2
             | comes certified, re-certifications should not be
             | needed(IANAL).
        
       | fbdab103 wrote:
       | I know a few doom scrollers for whom this would be incredibly
       | tempting. The video looked like it requires a lot of rotations
       | per screen tick. Can that be adjusted?
       | 
       | Now I am wondering if you can connect a bluetooth mouse to a
       | phone to achieve the same effect, albeit in a less convenient
       | package.
        
         | Nevermark wrote:
         | Tempting. But the addition of an upper/downer mash-safe
         | minimal-profile/motion post-to-post navigating trigger pair
         | would be a deal maker.
        
       | Nevermark wrote:
       | Every band of builders in a garage needs a variety of classes,
       | but at least one Doomscroller. While everyone else's attention is
       | down, in, focused, the Doomscroller looks outward.
       | 
       | They are the teams eyes and ears, continuously maintaining the
       | indespensible information grounding signal. A streaming infinite
       | scrolling HTML connection to the garage, from the real world.
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | ," said Load Letter, finally looking up from their plughack
         | console.
        
       | dlachausse wrote:
       | > Only works with Android/PC. Sorry iOS
       | 
       | If this was implemented as a Bluetooth mouse with just a scroll
       | wheel, wouldn't you get support on all recent operating systems
       | for free?
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | I thought that when I started this thing. Turns out, every
         | device implements slightly different flavors of USB-HID in
         | their drivers. It's a complete shitshow under the hood. I'm
         | trying to get iOS working, but it's so opaque compared to
         | Android. I have achieved limited functionality with iOS, but
         | it's not the buttery smooth action I can get on PC or Android.
         | 
         | https://x.com/andrewmccalip/status/1781674889679982991
        
           | outofpaper wrote:
           | Just clone the scroll messaging from any old generic that
           | works already. MiM for the easy win.
        
         | SushiHippie wrote:
         | From his twitter:
         | 
         | (I'll copy and paste the text here, as I don't know how much
         | you see of this text logged out)
         | 
         | > Why couldn't I just emulate a standard mouse and scroll
         | smoothly? Sounds easy. Unfortunately there is a holdover from
         | two decades ago in the way mouse drivers are written into USB.
         | Because mice used to use low resolution encoders, a single
         | "detent" event would be about 22.5 degrees. Hard coded into the
         | kernel level of Android and Windows is the instruction to
         | interrupt this single detent as a 40 pixel scroll for generic
         | devices. This is what results in the chunky style scrolling on
         | a PC.
         | 
         | > Only recently have specialty devices like the Logitech mice
         | used custom drivers to bypass this and offer high resolution
         | single pixel scrolling instructions. Unfortunately these
         | drivers were not rolled into the Android kernel, so even when I
         | sniffed the BLE traffic with Wireshark and impersonated a
         | Logitech device, I wouldn't get that silky smooth scrolling on
         | mobile. No go.
         | 
         | > The slightly hacky workaround was to go one level deeper than
         | the standard Arduino libraries.
         | 
         | > A quick description of how USB devices work. HID stands for
         | Human Interface Device and is a protocol implemented over USB
         | protocol. HID devices do advertise their capabilities through
         | the HID report descriptor, a fixed set of bytes describing
         | exactly what HID reports may be sent between the device and the
         | host and the meaning of each individual bit in those reports.
         | For example, a HID Report Descriptor may specify that "in a
         | report with ID 3 the bits from 8 to 15 is the delta x
         | coordinate of a mouse". The HID report itself then merely
         | carries the actual data values without any extra meta
         | information.
         | 
         | > My goal was to use a customized descriptor to send the byte
         | package of a one finger touchpad with absolutely coordinate
         | system and 1 button to the host. This way I could perform the
         | digital emulation of a finger making contact with the screen,
         | performing a Y axis movement while remaining in contact, and
         | then lifting off the screen before reaching the top. This
         | movement would have to be repeated hundreds of times seamlessly
         | to provide the illusion of smooth scrolling.
         | 
         | > Additional complications arose from the fact that Bluetooth
         | low energy has a minimum latency of 8milliseconds, with most
         | hosts negotiating an even slower rate such as 20 milliseconds.
         | Simply blasting commands at a few hundred hertz doesn't work.
         | 
         | > The internet is filled with unanswered forum questions about
         | how to do all of this. I think I'm probably the first one to
         | achieve a working implementation of this particular smooth
         | scrolling solution. This single problem occupied much time than
         | the rest of the project combined. No doubt that Logitech or
         | Apply could achieve a more elegant solution. My hope is that a
         | big company takes interest in Doomscroller takes it off my
         | hands.
         | 
         | https://x.com/andrewmccalip/status/1781674889679982991
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | Jump from completely out of context here... Wait, bluetooth
           | devices are USB ones tunneled over bluetooth?
           | 
           | If that's the case, why does audio work so badly? (I'm
           | guessing there's a list of exceptions that BT supports
           | natively, none of which work.)
        
             | enderfusion wrote:
             | Yeah, surprised me too. There are different categories
             | inside of Bluetooth, classic and low energy. LE has a low
             | rate, no more than 100hz.
        
             | SushiHippie wrote:
             | (I'm not a SME, but I looked a bit into this while buying a
             | bluetooth headphone)
             | 
             | Audio works with some bluetooth specific codecs like SBC,
             | Qualcomm aptX (adaptive/HD), LDAC, ... or Opus and AAC
             | 
             | These codecs need to be supported by both sender and
             | receiver.
             | 
             | And for example many bluetooth speakers only support SBC as
             | they don't want to pay the fees for aptX and LDAC (which
             | are both codecs that sound and work very well, LDAC even
             | supports up to 96 kHz sample rates with 32 bit depth).
             | 
             | So I suppose (i don't know for sure) problems could be a)
             | audio is more of a special case with all its codecs b) SBC
             | is widespread, but does not sound good c) codec support on
             | operating systems and bluetooth chips varies widely.
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | I hate it. I love it.
       | 
       | I've been thinking of removing the scroll wheel from my media
       | PC's mouse to make doom scrolling harder. Love to see the
       | innovation in going hard the other direction.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | You're meant to hate it. It's dumb. I'm actively making the
         | world a worse place by the invention of it.
        
       | buzer wrote:
       | Honestly, I'm a bit tempted. I read quite a bit on my laptop
       | while lying down and my arms are always in a bit of awkward
       | position in order to scroll. I have been thinking of getting one
       | of those presenter tools.
       | 
       | The only downsides are price & lack of click.
        
       | roblh wrote:
       | I love it. I think it would be even funnier if you made it only
       | scroll in one direction (downwards) to remove any possible
       | semblance of being useful.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | Tempting. never_look_back.bin firmware?
        
           | flemhans wrote:
           | A hardware limit would be more funny even
        
             | bagels wrote:
             | A loud audible ratchet mechanism. Just to add to the
             | annoyance.
        
               | teaearlgraycold wrote:
               | A ratchet that physically prevents reversing, but still
               | have the firmware support reverse scrolling. I love the
               | idea of a digital product that if broken in just the
               | right way behaves as expected given intuition from the
               | physical world.
        
           | ncr100 wrote:
           | Or if it had a mood sensor, and scrolled >>rapidly<<
           | downwards if distress detected, with the logic that the user
           | would never be satisfied with the amount of dopamine
           | generated from any amount of doomscrolling performed.
        
       | lifedayx wrote:
       | This was brilliant, I played with it longer than I really should
       | have
        
       | tudorw wrote:
       | Surface Dial's mutant cousin.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | I'm using Dial's PC drivers :)
        
           | tudorw wrote:
           | I love my dial, how about a gear stick style one where you
           | can push forward and back for your next project :)
        
       | 3PS wrote:
       | Joke or not, this could be a pretty ergonomic way to read long
       | form content. Currently I rebind my mouse side buttons to page
       | up/down which serves much the same purpose, since scrolling
       | endlessly on a mouse doesn't feel great for your hands.
        
       | p0w3n3d wrote:
       | One of the best UIs I've ever used was on Sony phone with a
       | scroller-button. Scroller was to choose the option and button
       | underneath (you pushed the scroller) was to select. Very fast,
       | easy to learn and usable.
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | Same story with original ipod. Hugely underrated interface.
        
       | nsagent wrote:
       | the site just needs some subdomains, like
       | https://ai.doomscroller.xyz for an extra bit of charm
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | abc.doomscroller.xyz
        
       | geor9e wrote:
       | There's plenty of wireless standalone scroll knobs out there if
       | this sounds like your cup of tea https://www.amazon.com/Razer-
       | Wireless-Control-Pod-Customizat...
        
         | enderfusion wrote:
         | That looks way better for PC, didn't know that existed.
        
           | geor9e wrote:
           | Yeah, there are some neat PC input devices outside of
           | keyboard and mouse. Since I do a lot of 3D work I use a 6
           | axis knob in my left hand while I drag my mouse with my right
           | https://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-3DX-700059-Spacemouse-
           | Com...
        
         | password4321 wrote:
         | Another was discontinued in 2018:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_PowerMate
        
         | Aspos wrote:
         | Got myself USB pedals on Amazon specifically for Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V
         | and quickly got addicted.
        
       | fatbird wrote:
       | Needs knurling.
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | Add a number lcd displaying how many miles you have scrolled so
       | far
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | Honestly I've always wanted something like this for reading
       | ebooks.
       | 
       | After many iterations (and neck injuries) I've found the best
       | position for me is simply laying horizontally with a normal
       | sleeping pillow. Then using a stand with an arm to hold the
       | device at the perfect position/distance (I use progressive
       | glasses).
       | 
       | Typically I only lift my arm to scroll to the next page. But
       | sometimes I skim sections of technical books and keep my arm
       | lifted to move quickly. Holding the arm up for 5-10 minutes
       | becomes annoying.
        
         | justsomehnguy wrote:
         | Just use a BT mouse.
         | 
         | Edit: or BT ... scroll:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40099700
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | Thanks. Great tip for iPads but probably doesn't work with
           | Kindle devices.
        
             | alanbernstein wrote:
             | For Kindle, there are wireless page-turner attachments.
             | Supposedly you can use a Bluetooth dongle to connect to a
             | standard Android remote clicker, after jailbreaking.
             | Jailbreaking my Kindle was a very frustrating project, so I
             | gave up on that in favor of using an android device, so I
             | could read lying on my back as you described.
        
       | rishikeshs wrote:
       | If somebody could invent something like this to turn my kindle
       | pages
        
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