[HN Gopher] 50 Years Later, This Apollo-Era Antenna Still Talks ...
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       50 Years Later, This Apollo-Era Antenna Still Talks to Voyager 2
        
       Author : jnord
       Score  : 173 points
       Date   : 2024-04-18 22:18 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | here's an older file with some more detailed info on the
       | microwave path loss to/from voyager:
       | https://voyager.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/DeepCommo_Chapter3--14...
        
       | guidedlight wrote:
       | There's a fun movie about this particular antenna, starring Sam
       | Neill (from another famous historic movie, Jurassic Park).
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dish
       | 
       | Worth a watch.
        
         | Smoosh wrote:
         | No, that was about the dish at Parkes, this is about the
         | Tidbinbilla dish, near Canberra.
        
         | 78zeros wrote:
         | I agree it's a good watch, however they're different antennas.
         | 
         | The radio telescope at Parkes was built prior to DSS-43 that is
         | the article's subject, they're located approx. 4 hours drive
         | apart.
        
         | jamesbfb wrote:
         | Not necessarily related, but it's a fantastic Aussie film
         | nonetheless.
        
       | kqbx wrote:
       | Dave from EEVblog made a nice series of interviews about this
       | station: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586Zn1ct-QA
        
         | nullhole wrote:
         | Nice link - thanks!
         | 
         | Related, Deep Sky Videos did a series of large-telescope tours
         | / interviews a few years back. For example, this is their one
         | on Alma; there are a number of others in their channel:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAQZp6yTR2Q
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | A lot of high tech around us is 50 years old now. Some of that we
       | would have trouble replacing.
        
         | krallja wrote:
         | It's a Dish of Theseus, though. The electronics have been
         | replaced, and the dish has been widened. I wonder how much of
         | it is actually 50 years old besides the superstructure.
        
           | thriftwy wrote:
           | Very often in such projects, The Stuff Not There Anymore is
           | visibly contributing to the overall quality of the
           | installation.
        
       | mgkimsal wrote:
       | I thought I'd noticed this documentary on HN a few weeks ago, but
       | I'll re-add it here.
       | 
       | "It's Quieter in the Twilight":
       | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17658964/
       | 
       | Interesting piece on a bit of the history of the Voyagers, as
       | well as recent interviews with the handful of remaining folks
       | dealing with Voyager today (well, as of 2021/2022).
        
         | jgalt212 wrote:
         | Seconded. It was an enjoyable watch for any Voyager fan.
        
         | wglb wrote:
         | Also available here https://www.amazon.com/Its-Quieter-
         | Twilight-Suzanne-Dodd/dp/...
        
         | uxjw wrote:
         | Looks really interesting. Found it free to stream on Plex:
         | https://l.plex.tv/mR6jp
        
       | edwarbd wrote:
       | If someone wanted to learn antenna design and eventually sigint,
       | what resource would you start with?
        
         | subhro wrote:
         | You can try to go through the amateur radio extra class.
        
           | wglb wrote:
           | Additionally, the ARRL Antenna Book is a great resource:
           | https://www.arrl.org/arrl-antenna-book
        
           | zikduruqe wrote:
           | That's what turned my law enforcement career into designing
           | cellphones for a carrier.
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | I would get my ham license and do everything I could with that
         | hobby, especially digital.
         | 
         | While doing that I'd either enlist in the US Navy or US Army
         | and work my way into a SIGINT job. Once you're in a SIGINT job,
         | you'll be far too busy with radio for ham. This would be a fast
         | track into SIGINT.
         | 
         | After that I'd use my military career to get into the private
         | sector SIGINT world, as there's a well-worn path there.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | We, as a species, need the Deep Space Network(DSN) in order to
       | keep communicating with everything man made that's out there
       | exploring our neighborhood.
       | 
       | This should be a global effort and I've read many articles about
       | the lack of funding for the DSN. It's getting more and more
       | difficult to "juggle" and do proper time sharing in order to keep
       | communicating with all the existing (and coming) spacecraft.
       | 
       | More resources and funding should be put together, by all space
       | agencies (NASA, ESA, JAXA, ISRO...) so as to continue having
       | means of communicating with all these space probes.
       | 
       | https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html
        
         | makerdiety wrote:
         | If the global free market doesn't want to spend capital in
         | space stuff, then space is probably not worth it. Capitalism is
         | an effective filter for economics and resource allocation.
         | Soviet Union styled failed management occurs otherwise.
        
       | semireg wrote:
       | It's hard for me to understand the arc seconds and degrees. Is
       | there some kind of illustration available that shows the
       | transmission from earth as a megaphone cone expanding out into to
       | space?
        
         | mikewarot wrote:
         | Draw an equilateral triangle. The internal angle at a corner is
         | 1/6 of a circle, 1.0471975511965 radians.
         | 
         | That can be divided by 60 into _degrees_ , which are
         | 0.0174532925199 radians
         | 
         | Those can be divided by 60 into _minutes_ , which are
         | 0.0002908882086 radians
         | 
         | Those can be divided by 60 into _seconds_ , which are
         | 0.00000484813681109 radians
         | 
         | Those can be divided by 60 into _thirds_ , which are
         | 8.08022801849E-8 radians
         | 
         | I think going any further is likely to be meaningless in a
         | modern context, but fourths and fifths were used in the past.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(angle)
        
           | semireg wrote:
           | I understand the division of units, what I'd like to see is
           | an illustration of the signal's cone at the astronomical
           | distances in the article.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | Well, the area taken by a cone with angle "a" at the
             | distance "r" is pi * r^2 * sin(a)^2.
             | 
             | For an arcsec, the square sin is ~85e-9. At the distance of
             | the Moon, that means the signal occupies ~400km^2. At the
             | distance of the Sun, ~5 billions of km^2 (5Mm^2).
             | 
             | The signal intensity is inversely proportional to that
             | area.
        
             | semireg wrote:
             | For example, if the screw/servo controlling one axis of the
             | dish is turned by a minimum adjustment, how many hundreds
             | or thousands of miles does it throw the cone's target at
             | the distance of the probe? What's the remaining margin for
             | error at these scales?
        
             | mikewarot wrote:
             | The angle is about 9x10^-5 radians. If you were to take a
             | meter stick (or a yard stick) and stick a piece of paper
             | under one end, that's the precision within which it can
             | point the dish. (While the earth is spinning, and going
             | around the sun!) The actual width of the beam is about 5
             | times that angle.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | 1 degree = 60 arcminutes, 1 arcminute = 60 arcseconds
         | 
         | One arcminute is about the resolution of the human eye. That
         | is, if two points are less than 1 arcminute apart on the your
         | field of view, they appear as one point.
         | 
         | The moon is 30 arc minutes (1/2 degree) on your field of view,
         | that's why one can see the details of the surface with the
         | naked eye.
         | 
         | 18 arcseconds is about the size of Saturn (without the rings)
         | as seen from the earth. It means it is just precise enough to
         | shoot through the rings of Saturn. You can't see this without
         | magnification, like with a small telescope or a good pair of
         | binoculars.
        
       | wglb wrote:
       | Slightly related, here are radio astronomy antennas:
       | https://www.vlba.nrao.edu/sites/SITECAM/
        
       | ooterness wrote:
       | For deep technical info on DSN, I highly recommend the DESCANSO
       | book series:
       | 
       | https://descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/monograph/mono.html
       | 
       | Thirteen volumes about everything from deep-space tracking and
       | navigation to cryogenic low-noise amplifiers, all available for
       | free online. It's an amazing resource.
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Whenever I read stuff like this I find it strange that as a
       | species we do this and also kill each other in wars.
        
         | makerdiety wrote:
         | Successful space travel and rocket science being a contemporary
         | of war and violence is only strange if you find toys to be
         | fascinating objects. And didn't a human land on the Moon
         | because of a cold war between two superpowers?
         | 
         | What's strange is acknowledgement of the possibility of scarce
         | resources necessitating conflict is considered invalid
         | criticism that needs to be silenced or given negative reviews
         | by the majority opinion. But that's not really surprising when
         | things like ascetic religion were created as a reaction to what
         | is popularly called criminal or antisocial mental models of the
         | world.
        
       | wumms wrote:
       | Digital watch for power.
        
       | dramm wrote:
       | As a science (and science fiction) nerd kid growing up in
       | Australia in the 1970/80s I got a kick out of tracking station 43
       | mention in Epilogue 2 of Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of War of
       | the Worlds (1978)...
       | 
       | [NASA unmanned landing craft just touches down on mars] [Houston
       | Control]: "What's that flare? See it? A green flare, coming from
       | Mars, kind of a green mist behind it. It's getting closer. You
       | see it, Bermuda? Come in, Bermuda! Houston, come in! What's going
       | on? Tracking station 43, Canberra, come in, Canberra! Tracking
       | station 63, can you hear me, Madrid? Can anybody hear me? Come
       | in, come in!" [instrumental music suddenly stops]
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPHEbh7cnr561iJqxno3q...
       | 
       | The Viking missions to mars had started planning in the late
       | 1960s and Viking 1 and 2 landed on Mars in 1976 so the inclusion
       | of a NASA Mars landing in Epilogue 2 was pretty neat.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-20 23:01 UTC)