[HN Gopher] Don't bet on the joys of pokies (2011)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Don't bet on the joys of pokies (2011)
        
       Author : furtively
       Score  : 86 points
       Date   : 2024-04-19 16:53 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (grogsgamut.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (grogsgamut.blogspot.com)
        
       | mock-possum wrote:
       | "Pokies" appears to be Australian slang for 'video poker
       | machines'
        
         | Pannoniae wrote:
         | small addition: not just for video poker, it's slang for any
         | slot machine.
        
           | kyteland wrote:
           | pokies = slot machines
           | 
           | cardies = video poker
        
         | kristofferR wrote:
         | Yeah, I was sorely disappointed, that's not what I associate
         | with pokies at all.
        
           | nicolas_t wrote:
           | yeah I somehow read that as pocky and was confused for a bit.
        
             | arduanika wrote:
             | Agreed that wouldn't make any sense. You can always bet on
             | the joy of pocky!
        
           | mikeInAlaska wrote:
           | And then all this talk about "NSW"
        
             | nozzlegear wrote:
             | Yeah, not nearly as titillating as it seemed.
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | My dad spent a few years in the pokey, I experienced relief
           | on learning this australiaism.
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | One armed bandits.
        
       | jddj wrote:
       | Some real australiana here.
       | 
       | To paint the picture for those who aren't familiar, the industry
       | is enormous and, in NSW in particular, extremely powerful.
       | 
       | For a while (still? Not sure) in Brisbane, for example, you
       | couldn't enter a bar after 1:30am unless it was a casino.
       | 
       | In NSW the sports clubs, of which there is one in every midsized
       | town, have busses which circulate the retirement communities and
       | bring the elderly to the poker machines for the day then drop
       | them home again, broke. The busiest day is pension day.
       | 
       | Most small pubs have a larger and busier poker machine area than
       | bar/beer garden area. Large "sports clubs" dedicate entire
       | floors.
       | 
       | Australians lose the most money per capita to gambling by a
       | significant margin.[1]
       | 
       | [1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/552821/gambling-
       | losses-p...
        
         | jimkoen wrote:
         | I'm not even Australian, but thanks to friendlygeordies, even I
         | know gambling in AUS is a cartel:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WDK5PByQgM
        
           | onychomys wrote:
           | I'm not even Australian, but thanks to Wake In Fright, even I
           | know gambling in AUS is something guaranteed to strip you of
           | your civility and turn you into an outback maniac:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mh7qZq0f_w
        
         | satori99 wrote:
         | NSW is home to the largest number of gambling machines anywhere
         | outside of Nevada.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling_in_Australia#New_Sout...
        
         | richardw wrote:
         | Recent immigrant to Australia here. Love the place, but the
         | power of the gambling industry is alarming. Very interesting
         | episode on the link with sports, and increasing earnings:
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/audio/2023/may/10...
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Poster I saw on a men's restroom wall in a restaurant in
         | Brisbane:
         | 
         | Fly 1: Bet you I can run up this wall faster than you.
         | 
         | Fly 2: Bet you you cant.
         | 
         | They say Australians will bet on two flies running up a wall.
         | If you have a gambling problem, call this number yada yada
         | yada.
         | 
         | Other poster from the same restaurant:
         | 
         | Win a trip for two to Las Vegas.
        
         | moomin wrote:
         | Not Australian, married to an Aussie. I think pokies are an
         | obscenity. And they're everywhere, they invade as many areas of
         | life as they can.
        
         | VelesDude wrote:
         | Yep, until folks see it they cannot understand the scale of
         | these things.
         | 
         | It isn't just Crown in Melbourne, which for most folks is more
         | like the traditional Vegas casino. All my local RSL's/Pubs are
         | all about 50% pokie machines.
         | 
         | And yep, that complimentary bus is not there to bring the old
         | folks in for a pot and parma.
         | 
         | Funnily enough, while it isn't the most pervasive, in New
         | Zealand is where I have seen folks that are betting the
         | highest. The wave of depression that hits you when see a lot of
         | people all down on their luck betting $10 a spin every few
         | seconds is just wild! I mean, yeah the Christchurch winter is
         | bad but not that bad!
        
       | beckthompson wrote:
       | Man this article is sad. Being addicted to gambling really does
       | suck the life out you.
        
         | Joker_vD wrote:
         | I've played enough poker (and similar games) on computer
         | (against bots, no real money) to know that 1) I am quite bad at
         | assessing the expected value of my moves; 2) I am quite...
         | what's the English word for someone who gets way too excited
         | from the thrill of gambling and forgoes the caution?
         | "Hasardeux" is French for it, but I don't think "hazardous" has
         | that sense in English? Anyhow, I do know quite well that were I
         | to gamble with real money, I'd very soon go broke and it's not
         | a difficult observation to make, even for someone as bad at
         | self-reflection as myself. So, I don't gamble.
         | 
         | And yet apparently there is something about gambling with real-
         | life consequences that is very attractive to oh so many people
         | who (again, apparently) can not replicate the similar
         | experience in a less life-ruining way, so they return to gamble
         | again and again?
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | > what's the English word for someone who gets way too
           | excited from the thrill of gambling and forgoes the caution?
           | "Hasardeux" is French for it
           | 
           | Is this 'a gambler'? Addict, risk taker or similar?
        
           | germinalphrase wrote:
           | "with reckless abandon" might be an equivalent phrase, e.g.
           | "he played poker with reckless abandon".
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > I am quite... what's the English word for someone who gets
           | way too excited from the thrill of gambling and forgoes the
           | caution? "Hasardeux" is French for it, but I don't think
           | "hazardous" has that sense in English?
           | 
           | Does the word have to denote (literally mean) that the person
           | is _emotionally excited_ and engaged at the same time? If so,
           | then perhaps  "a daredevil", "hotheaded", "impetuous",
           | "impulsive" or "rash".
           | 
           | There are a lot of close words like "reckless" or
           | "irresponsible" which are _often_ used when the person is
           | excited, but technically they don 't require it. Someone can
           | be quite reckless while also half-asleep doing something they
           | don't personally care about.
        
           | mateo411 wrote:
           | > I am quite... what's the English word for someone who gets
           | way too excited from the thrill of gambling and forgoes the
           | caution?
           | 
           | I think degen is the common term that used here. It's short
           | for degenerate.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > I think degen is the common term that used here.
             | 
             | Sir, I think you mixed up your HN account with 4Chan...
        
               | _dain_ wrote:
               | "degenerate fuckin gambler" is a common term predating
               | 4chan
               | 
               | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/degenerate#Adjective
               | 
               |  _> (of a gambler) Addictive or compulsive. _
        
             | MaxfordAndSons wrote:
             | I guess you're getting downvoted because people think you
             | mean HN by "here", but you meant amongst gamblers. And
             | you're right, it is the most apt term gp was looking for.
        
               | Joker_vD wrote:
               | I definitely was not. "Courageous", "adventurous", "risk-
               | taking", "reckless", "impudent", "bold", "daring", but
               | with something that would mean "...almost and even to a
               | fault or own peril", but _without_ an inherent negative
               | moral connotation is what I was looking for.
        
               | MaxfordAndSons wrote:
               | It doesn't have an inherent negative moral connotation
               | when used amongst gamblers. It's been reclaimed, so to
               | speak. But I suppose we're not amongst gamblers here, so,
               | fair enough.
        
           | saghm wrote:
           | > what's the English word for someone who gets way too
           | excited from the thrill of gambling and forgoes the caution?
           | "Hasardeux" is French for it, but I don't think "hazardous"
           | has that sense in English?
           | 
           | The best I can come up with is "adrenaline junky", but that
           | isn't specific to gambling; I feel like people use that to
           | refer to people who like base jumping or something.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | Well, since we're all _already_ in pedantic grammarian
             | territory: That would be  "junkie", since it is a noun
             | identifying an addicted person.
             | 
             | In contrast, "junky" is an adjective to describe a
             | generally bad state or quality. "Junky adrenaline" is
             | probably medical waste.
             | 
             | Ex: "It's not safe to travel in a junky car driven by a
             | junkie. Worse still to sail on a junkie's junky junk."
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | Poker players would label you as being strategically too
           | "aggressive", but that doesn't necessarily have anything to
           | do with emotion, it's just what they would call the way you
           | play.
        
           | csa wrote:
           | There are several terms of art in poker that describe various
           | versions of this:
           | 
           | action player -- This is fairly neutral, and describes what I
           | think you mean. Someone who likes to gamble. Sometimes these
           | players are really bad, sometimes they are only sort of bad.
           | These players make bank when playing against weak players who
           | overfold and aren't willing to gamble.
           | 
           | VIP -- This is a polite way to say "donator". Many/most
           | action players are VIPs. Their attitude is that they can
           | gamble in the pits or gamble at the poker table, and often
           | times the poker table presents less bad (or even good) odds
           | when compared to the house.
           | 
           | LAGtard -- LAG is short for "loose aggressive". LAG can be a
           | very profitable style, especially when deep stacked. That
           | said, LAGtards tend to play the style badly.
           | 
           | spewy -- describes someone who puts a lot of chips into the
           | pot, often times in questionable spots. Noun form is
           | "spewtard".
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | As a non-addicted, casual gambler (I recreationally play 1-2 no
         | limit poker at casinos once in a blue moon), I'd hate to see
         | casinos simply disappear, but yea they tend to be kind of sad
         | places full of the people who can least afford to lose the
         | money in their pocket. Don't know what the solution is. If you
         | outlaw it, you're getting rid of a benign source of casual fun
         | for folks like me who can keep it under control, and are not
         | really addressing the underlying addiction of the victims--
         | they'll just move on to underground casinos and/or more extreme
         | gambling.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | Society pays a pretty high price for that casual fun for
           | people like you.
           | 
           | Maybe go see a movie instead.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | Vice has a cost. Anti-vice has a cost. There is no such
             | thing as a free lunch and you're going to pay the piper
             | somewhere. While I'm not a gambler myself, the "Just don't
             | do $vice$" moral argument just never works on it's own.
        
             | ElevenLathe wrote:
             | Unfortunately, there's not a livable version of society
             | where we "ban" gambling. Doing so just pushes it
             | underground, and therefore inevitably into the hands of
             | some kind of organized crime. I imagine the best compromise
             | would be to create a state monopoly and make it easily (but
             | not universally) available, while also trying to push some
             | social stigma against it. Unfortunately for harmful vices
             | like this, the anglosphere (and I assume a lot of other
             | places) tends to oscillate between prohibition and hands-
             | off marketism.
             | 
             | We are seeing similar with sports betting and marijuana in
             | the US. Less than ten years ago, these were major crimes
             | basically everywhere. Now, in large swaths of the country,
             | you can't drive a mile without seeing a billboard for one
             | or the other. Making them illegal again is not the answer,
             | but we don't seem to have a standard way of shading things
             | like this in any meaningful way.
             | 
             | (By the way, I'm not against people smoking a little weed
             | or betting on football, but plenty of people do get
             | momentum with both and it can have harmful effects for
             | them. I believe the industries pushing both behaviors are
             | in large part profiting off this small group of heavy
             | "users". )
        
               | mynameishere wrote:
               | _just pushes it underground_
               | 
               | Why is this an argument? So push it underground. As a
               | rule, old folks aren't going to take their pensions to
               | Fast Freddy's strip club backroom poker nights. People
               | think that because a law doesn't work 100 percent, it
               | shouldn't exist.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | What do you think gambling-addicted "old folks" who live
               | in areas where gambling is illegal do today? They either
               | hop a short flight to a place where it is legal OR head
               | to Fast Freddy's. People absolutely do participate in
               | illegal gambling when legal gambling is off the table,
               | whether they are elderly or not.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Some is very different than every.
               | 
               | Banning subsidized travel to casino's alone would go
               | quite far. Similarly banning slot machines from having
               | sound, flashing lights, animations etc would reduce
               | though obviously not eliminate the draw.
        
           | gregw134 wrote:
           | I found a local poker club, fortunately. $40 buy in
           | tournament, no rebuys, every week, with the same 30 or so
           | people that show up. Way more fun than playing at the casino
           | with sad addicts and sad poker pros grinding $40k annual
           | salaries.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Yea, I mean I do this too, including hosting my own home
             | games. Our local club even hires dealers to help keep the
             | games moving.
             | 
             | My fear is that there's no great way to outlaw predatory
             | casinos that pick the pockets of the poor, that still
             | allows responsible home games and private clubs. A lot of
             | US states try/tried various ways, with rules about who can
             | take a rake and so on, but it's difficult to make them
             | ironclad and casinos are highly motivated to find loopholes
             | and operate a millimeter from the edge of the law. And if
             | you get too strict, suddenly you've criminalized grandma's
             | $0.25 bingo game with the ladies.
        
       | tudorw wrote:
       | I don't recall the name of the paper, surprising to me, it was
       | fairly detailed on how the 'satisfaction' gamblers experienced
       | was from the familiar losses, not the occasional wins, viewed in
       | that light it's even more tragic.
        
       | tennis_80 wrote:
       | I started my career working on gambling apps, and it's one of my
       | red lines now when looking for work.
       | 
       | It's an evil industry - full of dark patterns. I remember
       | implementing a "cancel withdrawal" feature where essentially: the
       | casino could deposit money in a customers bank account in a day
       | when they request it. They instead choose to hold it in a pending
       | state for a week, and allow them to cancel the withdrawal at any
       | point in that week to immediately play with. Presumably so it
       | didn't feel as real as money leaving the gamblers bank account.
        
         | eterm wrote:
         | The major UK sites have recently done a similarly dark move by
         | adjusting their definition of "Depost Limit".
         | 
         | Used to be if you set, e.g. a PS50/month deposit limit, then
         | you couldn't deposit more than PS50 a month.
         | 
         | They recently changed it to be a net limit, so if you withdrawl
         | PS500 after a win, you can now deposit PS550.
         | 
         | While it can be argued that it still acts as a guardrail for
         | maximum losses, it absolutely encourages problem gamblers to
         | deposit more.
        
       | jon_adler wrote:
       | Sad to discover that the (reasonable) reforms were quickly
       | scuppered.
       | 
       | https://theconversation.com/pokies-reforms-explained-how-goo...
        
       | Solvency wrote:
       | what is it with Australians and having the cheesiest names for
       | everything? pokies. electricians are sparkies. bikkie. spewie.
       | budgie. brekky.
       | 
       | it's like a bunch of babytalk only it's said by literally
       | everyone.
        
         | smaudet wrote:
         | I posit that its due to hardship - not to suggest all
         | Australians are super hard off, but it is certainly true that
         | acronyms/shortened words are more common in rural (think high
         | intensity physical labor) or speed-sensitive contexts (think
         | Wall Street, engineering jargon in a engineering context, such
         | as software, or SMS text-messaging).
         | 
         | Given their origins as a prison labor camp, coupled with a
         | legitimately difficult environment (hot, arid, isolated by
         | thousands of miles of ocean, fairly wild/aggressive wildlife
         | such as crocodiles, snakes, kangaroos), their propensity to
         | shortened, almost mono or duo-syllabic words makes plenty of
         | sense in that context.
        
           | Joker_vD wrote:
           | And _finally_ I 've seen the (variation of the) argument
           | usually applied to the Russians, about their slavish nature
           | ("During the Stalin's reign, half of the country was in jail
           | and the other half was the jailers" etc.) leading to the
           | impossibility for them to form a civilized and liberal
           | society, which is usually retorted with an example of the
           | Australians... being applied to the Australians itself.
           | 
           | No, one doesn't need to be of good breed to be freely able to
           | speak multisyllabic words.
        
             | smaudet wrote:
             | > No, one doesn't need to be of good breed to be freely
             | able to speak multisyllabic words.
             | 
             | Eh? Not what I'm saying at all. Breed has nothing to do
             | with it... circumstance has much more to do with word
             | shortenings... not sure what I got downvoted for...
        
         | settsu wrote:
         | Maybe an equallly interesting question to ask yourself is why
         | you associated those with "babytalk".
        
           | Solvency wrote:
           | "hey bubby, lets washy your widdle wubby tubby! want a
           | snacky?? wanna take doggy for a walky??"
           | 
           | are you seriously asking this question? have you never been
           | around babies before?
        
             | settsu wrote:
             | You assume I haven't been around babies because I asked why
             | you attributed an entire country's slang to baby-talk?
             | Fascinating.
             | 
             | Guess intellectual curiosity isn't everyone's forte. That's
             | fine.
        
             | 082349872349872 wrote:
             | > _it 's like a bunch of babytalk only it's said by
             | literally everyone._
             | 
             | They must be doing it intentionally to infuriate you (the
             | only cocky in Oz with sufficient snags for the barbie).
        
         | brainwad wrote:
         | Because it's fun to have diminutive version of many words. And
         | because it differentiates us from boorish Americans - or as
         | they are also known in Oz, seppos.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | I once saw a sign in Australia warning about crossing train
           | tracks. In the land of the free, the sign would have all the
           | coziness of a Secret Service agent:                   KEEP
           | OFF TRAIN TRACKS - $100 FINE PER VIOLATION
           | 
           | But this was Australia. So it actually read something like
           | this: "Cross tracks safely and only at the provided walkways.
           | Or cop a $100 fine. Don't say we didn't warn you, mate!"
        
             | seabass-labrax wrote:
             | For comparison, the standard text in Great Britain is
             | exactly as follows:                 Warning       Do not
             | trespass on the Railway       Penalty PS1000
        
               | brainwad wrote:
               | The actual signs in Sydney look like
               | Danger       Don't cross the tracks       - use the
               | bridge.       Fines up to $5,500 apply.
               | 
               | (https://railgallery.wongm.com/cache/sydney-
               | suburban/F121_540...)
        
               | seabass-labrax wrote:
               | That's arguably a lot better than the British ones:
               | 
               | - They give an safe, alternative action, which might not
               | be obvious to some people.
               | 
               | - They state the authority by which the fine is issued
               | (too small to read fully from the photograph, but
               | something like "...Regulation 2003"). Interestingly, a
               | historical railway sign preserved at Beamish has the name
               | of the officer by whose authority the fine would have
               | been issued at that time[1].
               | 
               | - The fine is given as 'up to' the maximum. As I
               | understand it, the British fine is only PS1000 if it can
               | be proved that the violation was made wilfully, and non-
               | wilful trespassing is usually (perhaps always?) only
               | subject to a fine if done subsequent to having received a
               | warning.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.deviantart.com/rlkitterman/art/NER-
               | Public-Warnin...
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | Surely it's to differentiate you from the English. We may not
           | be a commonwealth, but surely our origin in common with
           | Australia grants us that much?
        
             | brainwad wrote:
             | The English/British and their media are not as jarringly
             | foreign as Americans, because Australian culture and
             | language diverged from English culture much later than
             | American did.
             | 
             | There's also 5x fewer of them, so they are less of a threat
             | to our minority culture than Americans are - Americans
             | don't realise just how dominant American English is in the
             | Anglosphere and how hard it is to resist.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | > seppos
           | 
           | seppo is short for septic, which is short for septic tank,
           | which rhymes with yank, and yank is a word used for any
           | American. And although yank comes from yankee, we mostly
           | don't discriminate between north and south so it is a general
           | term.
           | 
           | Like all words in Aussie only context can make it insulting -
           | it can just as easily be used in a friendly way. Apparently
           | the word seppo is not used much, maybe mostly by older
           | Ockers. I'm summarising a long discussion on the word and
           | usage that goes into more detail:
           | https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-australians-
           | call-a...
           | 
           | > what is it with Australians and having the cheesiest names
           | for everything
           | 
           | It is just language diverging memetically. A small part of it
           | is signalling you are _not_ a stuck up snob.
           | 
           | The wannabe hoity-toity "I'm better than you"-types try and
           | change their accent and word usage to match some "educated"
           | upperclassish snobby accent and then they speak down to
           | others and try to correct their English. Some of the snobby
           | accent is memetic - due to hanging around a particular social
           | group.
           | 
           | The accusation of baby-talk and cheesy comes across as
           | aggressively stuck-up to me.
           | 
           | I'm from New Zealand and it is fun to see some snobby bitch
           | get drunk and then hear her accent shift to some bogan
           | accent([?]hick drawl) from their childhood. I've seen the
           | same thing with some suits in a bimmer in a wealthy suburb
           | change their whole demeanour to rural farmer-types given
           | circumstances. In New Zealand farmers are often wealthy and
           | their kids often get expensive private education and move
           | into professional jobs.
        
         | jdietrich wrote:
         | Australian slang represents something important about
         | Australian values - mateship, the Anzac spirit, a fair go.
         | Aussies don't talk like poms, because they aren't like poms.
        
           | Ylpertnodi wrote:
           | ...or other English speakers.
        
         | VelesDude wrote:
         | Spoken like a real Gronk! Nah, your cool.
         | 
         | I suspect it is just something we picked up from our British
         | heritage, the whole slang thing.
         | 
         | Apple and Pairs, Up the Stairs - all that.
         | 
         | I do find it funny when some folks have been here for a few
         | years and they have picked up all the slang. Someone I used to
         | know had been here for 10 years but still had a very thick
         | Italian accent. It was always a joy when he would bust out a
         | sentence like "I took the mars bar up the Tulla but it was
         | right chockers. All I wanted for a Chook!". Translated, "I took
         | the car up the freeway but there was a traffic jam. I wanted a
         | hot chicken."
        
       | ozzydave wrote:
       | Blow up the pokies
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-19 23:01 UTC)