[HN Gopher] The Curse of Monkey Island
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The Curse of Monkey Island
Author : cybersoyuz
Score : 145 points
Date : 2024-04-19 16:25 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.filfre.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.filfre.net)
| hiddencost wrote:
| Probably the single most impactful game I played growing up.
|
| Some really incredible adventure games came out of that era. Loom
| and Grim Fandango spring to mind.
| thefaux wrote:
| The concept and feel of Loom were wonderful. I wish it had been
| longer, but probably my personal favorite of the group.
| wsc981 wrote:
| On the Mac it was a quite beautiful game. Later on I tried
| different (Windows / DOS) versions with ScummVM but they're a
| disappointment. Same with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
| I am not sure if the Mac versions are playable in ScummVM.
| el_benhameen wrote:
| Impactful indeed. I remember a lot of games for being fun,
| having impressive graphics, etc. But the MI series instilled in
| me a sense of nostalgia and longing for a time and a place that
| I've never been and that never really existed, and it's a
| feeling that I still get when I think about the games or hear
| the music from them.
| leshokunin wrote:
| Reminder that this game, and all the DOS era titles, are neatly
| documented and ready to play via eXoDOS 6 or eXoSCUMMVM.
| Gormo wrote:
| Or just directly available on archive.org.
| billwashere wrote:
| Never heard of exoscummvm but https://www.scummvm.org/ is the
| original site. I spent a lot of time playing Monkey Island the
| ds version of scummvm.
| criddell wrote:
| I wonder if Curse of Monkey Island would translate well to the
| iPad?
| YakBizzarro wrote:
| Just a masterpiece. The graphics and musical are just wonderful
| and inspiring. Enigms are good and the story solid. Plus I played
| it when I was young, so it's special to me
| pshc wrote:
| > It nails that mixture of whimsy, cleverness, and sweetness that
| has made _The Secret of Monkey Island_ arguably the most beloved
| point-and-click adventure game of all time.
|
| > During the latter 1990s, when most computers games were still
| made by and for a fairly homogeneous cohort of young men, too
| much ludic humor tried to get by on transgression rather than
| wit; this was a time of in-groups punching -- usually punching
| _down_ -- on out-groups. I'm happy to say that _The Curse of
| Monkey Island's_ humor is nothing like that.
|
| Well said. Game has aged beautifully.
| soneca wrote:
| For such a male-dominated industry creating a game for a
| largely male audience, it is impressive how well and positively
| women were portrayed in the MI games.
|
| Elaine in particular is brave, smart, skillful, a leader, but
| also loving, kind. The character is not flattened to a single
| characteristic or narrative function. Even when she needs to be
| saved, when you get there, she already saved herself (in MI 1
| or 2, I don't remember).
| turbosepp wrote:
| This is one of the things I really really liked in the
| original two MIs. The characters ...and especially the
| relation between tough Elaine and Guybrush ("you're so
| helpless and cute"). I think they did not get this "right" in
| the newest part and it's my main problem with it.
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| _> For such a male-dominated industry creating a game for a
| largely male audience, it is impressive how well and
| positively women were portrayed in the MI games. _
|
| Wait a second, why is that surprising? As if to you,
| something being male dominated must usually mean women being
| portrayed negatively by men, and if they're not then it's a
| surprise.
|
| Sorry, but your comment just reeks of sexism by assuming
| mens' default is to not have a positive portrayal on women.
| orwin wrote:
| I do think it is more about wide feedback than 'men can't
| portray women well'. It's easy to overcorrect or make weak
| characters (not only women) when you're in a monoculture
| and your feedback come from the same kind of people. My
| example is Raymond E. Feist. His characters (especially
| female, but not only) were really weak before he partnered
| with Wurts (which, in my opinion, gave birth to their best
| work), and in all his following books all his characters
| were way better than in his first works.
| handoflixue wrote:
| It's not sexist to acknowledge reality, and back in the 90s
| male-dominated media very much did have a tendency to
| portray women badly. The further back you go, the worse the
| problem gets.
|
| In general, society has moved to be less and less tolerant
| of bigotry over time. Given that, you should expect that
| older media will be more bigoted than we currently
| tolerate.
| dylan-m wrote:
| I adored this in Return to Monkey Island, as well. Elaine and
| Guybrush just have a ... functional relationship. They love
| and support each other and they get along well. It's an
| important part of them as characters, but it's just there,
| and you don't have to worry, and the plot doesn't revolve
| around it. I found it refreshing.
| Tarsul wrote:
| actually, I found their relationship in Return to Monkey
| Island really weird. In that Elaine forgives basically
| _everything_ that Guybrush does, even in the last act. It
| 's (somehow) understandable wrt to the ending itself, but
| it certainly was out of character wrt the older titles in
| the series and as such I did not like it.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| Is that the latest game? I played it on the Switch and it
| seemed like there was a reference on the island that she's
| cheating on him or something.
| iosonofuturista wrote:
| Not cheating, the reference (a tree carving IIRC) would
| be in the tree before the events of the first game of the
| series, so before guybrush would have met Elaine. It's
| understandable that she would have lovers before
| guybrush, but the implication that one could have been
| the big bad LeChuck, makes guybrush fume, even if it's
| just an initial.
| raverbashing wrote:
| Definitely way better than a guy who was given a name based
| on a generic file name and type!
| Gormo wrote:
| The adventure game market wasn't quite so male-dominated,
| especially where Sierra was concerned, with a large number of
| female game designers, and multiple influential games with
| well-developed female protagonists 1-2 years before even the
| original Monkey Island came out.
| Terr_ wrote:
| > too much ludic humor tried to get by on transgression rather
| than wit
|
| I suppose the contemporaneous comparison there would be Leisure
| Suit Larry? [0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry
| Gormo wrote:
| Is that really true, though? I can't think of any significant
| examples of games from the '80s or '90s that involved "in-
| groups punching... on out-groups", unless the out-groups in
| question were space aliens, nazis, fantasy monsters, hostile
| AIs, or the like.
|
| Monkey Island is an absolute classic, of course, but this
| particular point feels almost like a retcon of present-day
| cultural assumptions into a specific context in the past where
| the objects of this criticism weren't really quite so present.
| cess11 wrote:
| Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior would be pretty obvious
| examples. Someone else mentioned Leisure Suit Larry.
|
| I'd like to mention Samantha Fox Strip Poker as well, though
| it's a bit more subtle than "punching".
| geopurcell wrote:
| Virtue signalled.
| redeeman wrote:
| its almost as if most men are not crazily sexist pigs, that
| only cares about scantily clad female characters in video
| games. Its ALMOST as if there is much much to it than that
| soneca wrote:
| Great article for a great game. I loved every Monkey Island game
| (maybe just "liked" the 4th). I even loved the ending of this
| last one, that was, again, controversial.
| manbash wrote:
| What a great game. The "mega monkey" difficulty had me attempting
| every possible combination with my inventory items.
| sentrysapper wrote:
| I loved this game growing up, but never got around to finishing
| it. I've been going back and playing point & click adventures
| like Grim Fandango and Broke Age. IMO that genre didn't age well.
| So many interactions are counterintuitive and I inevitably feel
| like I have to read a guide in order to proceed with the
| narrative.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| You had to have the patience.
|
| My older brother loved the Myst series, DoTT, Sam & Max and as
| a younger brother who used to sit and watch him play games, I
| got bored. His way of shoving me out the room because I would
| then hear him play GTA and not be allowed back in...
|
| It's the same with any of those games. Day of the Tentacle, Sam
| & Max. -- You need that logical and forward thinking mindset
| and an attention span greater than 3 seconds. It's an niche
| genre and not for everyone and now it's a genre that's lost
| with time just because how the world is nowadays. Who has four
| hours to point and click around a realm?
|
| I meanwhile just wanted to frag folk and jump around a CTF map
| on Quake 3.
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| _> You need that logical and forward thinking mindset and an
| attention span greater than 3 seconds_
|
| Not only that but you do need a lot of free time as well. As
| a kid I had the patience and time to push through point and
| click games, now as an adult with responsibilities I don't.
| If I only have 30 minutes per day to spend on gaming it's
| gonna be too short to invest in those kinds of games but just
| enough time for a few rounds of Q3 arena or such.
| jerf wrote:
| On the plus side, in the modern era, you can easily find a
| walkthrough to help you through whatever. Though many are not
| well-structured to avoid spoilers when you drop into the
| middle of them.
|
| I don't do a ton of adventure gaming, but I have gone through
| most of the episodic Sam & Max games. I estimate about 1
| walkthrough consult per 2 games overall, and about a 50/50
| split between "oh crap I should have gotten that myself" and
| "oh, I was never going to get that" results (with the
| occasional "oh I was right and I just didn't click on the
| right thing or notice the tiny little widget" that _really_
| makes me glad I just looked).
|
| Day of the Tentacle was probably the largest game I've done
| with 0 consults, though I was probably stuck enough to
| justify it a couple of times. One of the heights of the
| genre, there.
| giobox wrote:
| Day of the Tentacle is also one of the few point and clicks
| I've finished from beginning to end without consulting a
| walkthrough. This is actually one reason that I personally
| prefer it to COMI, the puzzles in DOTT generally are
| sensible/logical for the most part, especially by genre
| standards.
|
| The absolute worst puzzle for me remains the infamous
| Broken Sword/Circle of Blood Irish goat scene:
|
| > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goat_Puzzle
| solardev wrote:
| Even back then, excessive "pixel hunting" was a frequent
| complaint of the genre. You basically just had to click around
| randomly and try different inventory item permutations by trial
| and error until something happens.
|
| On the other hand, modern Games like Baldur's Gate 3, while not
| really an adventure game, gives you so many different ways of
| solving each puzzle or encounter. It's never pre scripted to
| only one solution, but you can really use your imagination.
|
| Relevant tropes:
|
| https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PixelHunt
|
| https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoonLogicPuzzle
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I was a huge adventure game fan back in the 90s, and I also
| completed BG3 a few months ago ( it took me a solid 6 months
| to finish the game ). Quite frankly, I truly think there are
| no puzzles whatsoever in bg3. Very very very occasionally you
| need object X to satisfy character Y, but that's about it. I
| think this is partly due to the game changing directions
| based on what you do ( so you can't get stuck and therefore
| there's no puzzle solving !) , but I never had the same
| feeling I had with monkey island, fate of Atlantis etc.
| solardev wrote:
| Maybe they're not strictly "puzzles" in the traditional
| LucasArts or Myst sense, but maybe more like "problems".
| That is, you have a lot of agency as a player in
| determining the outcome of your quests, companions, world
| events, etc., and you're not tied into any one way of
| achieving those. Given a quest, it's never just "gather X,
| put them together in Y fashion, then use them to Z".
| There's almost always a way to talk your way to a different
| solution, or use violence, or subterfuge, or a spell, or
| shapeshifting, or jumping/flying over the location, etc.
|
| I wasn't arguing that BG3 is a puzzle/adventure game (sorry
| if that was unclear), but that it doesn't suffer from that
| "only one esoteric and preposterous solution" that 90s-era
| adventure games often had (looking at you, Sierra
| Entertainment especially, with puzzles like needing to
| stick a banana into a jetpack to stop a killer robot: https
| ://spacequest.fandom.com/wiki/W-D40#Game_Involvement... and
| that was the only way to proceed).
|
| By contrast, in BG3 you can beat the game in many different
| ways, leading to completely different outcomes (and
| playtimes). I did a physics-based playthrough that mostly
| just shoved and threw people around and off cliffs, with no
| idea who they were or what they wanted from me, but the
| game gave me the freedom to do that. It's also possible to
| do a mostly peaceful playthrough with a lot of talking
| (yawn).
|
| The Owlbear cave is a good example (no spoilers... but
| there's a lot of different outcomes for the mother and
| child owlbear, depending on your party makeup and actions
| etc.)
|
| Games these days are a lot better at giving you different
| ways to solve a situation (or the entire game), not just
| following a strictly linear puzzle/narrative/questline.
| It's like the opposite of the "Moon Logic Puzzle" trope.
| Agingcoder wrote:
| Ah ! I had indeed misunderstood you, thanks a lot for the
| clarification.
|
| We definitely agree. I thoroughly enjoyed bg3, and
| remember feeling no resistance because things would play
| out the way I wanted them to happen.
|
| Apart from the occasional fighting parts, I've wondered
| quite a bit about what makes bg3 a challenge - and I
| still don't have the answer, probably because there's
| little to no challenge in bg3. I've decided though that
| the game is not about the technical challenge ( or any
| challenge for that matter ) but about the fact that you
| can freely bend the story to your wishes , and do things
| the way you want, and the problems you solve are the ones
| that, to some extent, you choose to create / address -
| what you call 'problems' and I agree with you.
|
| This makes the game structurally different from COMI (
| which is about solving puzzles so about meeting some kind
| of challenge ), but neither more nor less enjoyable-
| they're just different games.
| guy4261 wrote:
| > In more practical terms, however, it steered the burgeoning
| Monkey Island franchise straight into a cul de sac with no
| obvious escape.
|
| Without getting into (almost any specific) spoilers of the last
| 10 seconds of the game... this claim is completely untrue. The
| hint at a sequel is right there in the open, as the ending
| implies LeChuck is still at large.
| COGlory wrote:
| #2, not #3
| mrob wrote:
| At the end of MI2, "Chuckie" looks at the screen and his eyes
| flash, implying he's still really LeChuck. Additionally,
| there's scene of Elaine speculating about a voodoo curse. Ron
| Gilbert never "sequel-proofed" the game; the route that MI3
| takes was deliberately left open.
| asicsarecool wrote:
| The greatest adventure game of all time. Larry Ahern is a genius
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| Such an underrated game. I wish they would remaster it in high
| res. The art style is stunning and holds up.
|
| And let's not forget it introduced Murray the Skull to the world!
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I was always a, huge fan of this one. It's my favourite in the
| series.
|
| Monkey Island 1 was also good. But 2 was too complicated and the
| puzzles too contrived. And it was soooo slow on Amiga. But 3,
| wow. I love the art style, the way the characters are drawn, the
| jokes etc. The goodsoup family. It was a really great game.
|
| In contrast, 4 was really ugly with its primitive 3D graphics,
| stupid Starbucks jokes etc.
| 77pt77 wrote:
| > And it was soooo slow on Amiga
|
| Wasn't that the one with 10 floppy disks or something?
| zizee wrote:
| Monkey wrench anyone?
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > The danger of increased resolution and color count was always
| that the finished results could veer into a sort of photo-
| realism, losing the ramshackle charm that had always been such a
| big part of Monkey Island's appeal.
|
| This is a weird perspective; _The Secret of Monkey Island_
| already uses photorealistic graphics. _Curse_ is much cartoonier.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| This song, and that you could choose the lyrics. Ingenious.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUtvLzUSB0
| runeb wrote:
| An excellent write up on this great game! One particularly
| striking element of Curse to me is the soundtrack. Michael Lands
| compositions for the series is absolutely perfect in this high
| fidelity form. The familiar themes from the earlier games take on
| a whole new dimension and the music has its own narrative which
| perfectly complements the visuals and gameplay. A masterpiece in
| its own right. I still find myself loading it up on YouTube and
| playing it in the background while working or doing house chores.
| FpUser wrote:
| Music from The Secret of Monkey Island is in my favorites
| jl6 wrote:
| A great retrospective.
|
| I have nothing but praise for this game. It's a standout example
| of how great art transcends its medium. Despite the technical
| limitations of the mid-90s, it's still a beautifully drawn,
| beautifully scored joyful experience.
|
| _A Pirate I Was Meant To Be_ is on our family playlist for long
| car journeys with the kids.
|
| Also, I'm not sure if this can ever be proven, but I'm convinced
| the chain of influence from _Pirates of the Caribbean: The Ride_
| to _Pirates of the Caribbean: The Movie_ goes at least partly via
| Monkey Island.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Tim Powers' pirate fantasy book _On Stranger Tides_ is a very
| important link in this chain. Gilbert 's said it was a major
| influence, and the first _Pirates_ movie had a lot of _Tides '_
| vibes. _Pirates 4_ was a straight-up adaptation of the book.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Stranger_Tides#Influence_on...
| Tarsul wrote:
| I replayed 3 and 4 a few years ago. And I have to say that the
| jokes in 4 were better. Who is with me? ;)
| nidnogg wrote:
| I dunno, I recently came off of a couple of Monkey Island 1 - 2
| playthroughs and after starting this one, I couldn't help but
| feel that it was very laborious to talk to a few NPCs - some
| conversations would last way longer than I remember. It's funny
| because this is what I treasured the most about the previous
| games.
|
| I ended up shelving it for the time being. Maybe it takes off
| after a while? Could always give another shot.
| legitster wrote:
| I'm really surprised a Monkey Island movie hasn't been made yet.
|
| Yes, the Pirates of the Caribbean movie originally started as a
| Monkey Island screenplay. But that franchise is basically dead
| now, and with the popularity of sassy, fourth-wall breaking
| sendup movies I think it would do gangbusters.
|
| The lore and the humor and the characters are already there -
| it's a shame they are locked to this increasingly small audience
| of people who have patience for point and click adventure games.
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I love that game, along with Fate of Atlantis and Day of the
| Tentacle - but this has to be my favorite one.
|
| For some reason I never quite understood, it wasn't that well
| received when it came out. My stance on this one hasn't changed
| in 27 years and I firmly believe it is the pinnacle of the genre
| : incredible art, hilarious, crazy but somehow logical puzzles,
| great music, and above all extraordinarily well written. Very
| very few games had me laugh in front of my computer. And don't
| forget the brilliant voice acting.
|
| I've just bought the latest title in the series but haven't
| played it yet - I somehow fear it won't be able to match COMI. I
| will also be introducing my kids to this incredible work of art -
| they will never hear about this from their friends at school, and
| I feel this is typically the kind of thing I can and probably
| should share as a parent.
|
| Lucas folks, thanks for making this game.
| probably_wrong wrote:
| I think the reason CoMI wasn't well received was a combination
| of adventure games being on the way out (so not a great sale
| for casual gamers) and Ron Gilbert not being involved in it (so
| not a great pitch for fans either). But I have to agree that
| some of my favorite Monkey Island jokes came from this game,
| and I appreciate their attempt at "straightening" the ending of
| MI2.
|
| As for the latest MI... it is my hot take that I would have
| been better off not playing it. It's competently made and has
| some good innovations for the point-and-click genre, but not
| even the characters seem like they want to be there. Then
| again, it has good ratings so other opinions exist.
| atombender wrote:
| As someone who grew up with these games, I played through and
| liked MI3 when it came out it, but the graphics style always felt
| off to me.
|
| The exaggerated art style didn't mesh with that of the first two
| games. The art style of the first two is of course whimsical, but
| it's within the realm of photorealism. MI3, however, leans
| heavily into the Chuck Jones style of cartoons, with huge heads
| and spindly bodies, against super-exaggerated backgrounds where
| not a single straight corner can be seen.
|
| It's not just that Guybrush looks completely different in MI3 --
| he's certainly not a tall, lanky fellow in MI1-2 (though in the
| "remastered" versions LucasArts retconned his look) -- he feels
| like an entirely new and different character. The world also
| feels like a different universe entirely. It's a different
| island, sure, but it just doesn't feel like the dark and
| atmospheric environment of the first two games.
|
| There's overall a weird lack of continuity here, and the heritage
| of Day of the Tentacle is apparent. DotT is of course about as
| Chunk Jones-y as you can get, with a huge dab of the wacky art
| style of Ren & Stimpy and Animaniacs. MI3 feels designed by
| people who wanted to do their own thing.
|
| What's _really_ weird and off-putting is the art style of MI6. I
| don 't know what they were thinking. I guess they didn't think
| Guybrush was thin enough in the previous iterations?
| wzdd wrote:
| Going full wacky-pirate-adventure and changing the graphical
| style is arguably better, though, than trying more closely to
| imitate Gilbert and inevitably coming up short.
| atombender wrote:
| MI1-2 were already plenty wacky, though.
|
| Claiming a sequel that aligned more with the look and feel of
| the original couldn't have worked is neither here nor there,
| because it was never attempted, and so it can't be dismissed
| as the wrong way to go.
| astlouis44 wrote:
| And not to mention that you can play a demo of it in your
| browser, thanks to this WebAssembly port!
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40092627
|
| https://personal-1094.web.app/scummvm.html
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(page generated 2024-04-19 23:00 UTC)