[HN Gopher] CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       CFPB Takes Action Against Coding Boot Camp BloomTech and CEO Austen
       Allred
        
       Author : Jimmc414
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2024-04-17 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.consumerfinance.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.consumerfinance.gov)
        
       | Jimmc414 wrote:
       | Announcement from CFPB Director
       | https://twitter.com/chopracfpb/status/1780651320766058684
        
       | mistrial9 wrote:
       | a quick search shows this post dated 2020 (a long time ago)
       | 
       | https://www.applieddivinitystudies.com/lambda-lies/
        
         | taytus wrote:
         | April, 17th, 2024
         | 
         | https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-takes...
        
       | Twirrim wrote:
       | This is the boot camp school formerly known as Lambda School,
       | that came under a lot of fire in the past for these types of
       | practices, and other issues.
       | 
       | Previous trouble they've been in:
       | 
       | https://dfpi.ca.gov/2021/04/26/lambda-school-reaches-settlem...
       | 
       | https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/13/lambda-school-lawsuits/
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | This is one of those situations lending support to the
         | corporate death penalty. Allowing name changes like Worldcom,
         | Spectrum, and so on to write off some liabilities while
         | operating as if nothing happened.
        
           | avarun wrote:
           | Their name change was unrelated to this. Somebody else owned
           | a trademark for Lambda and sued them over it, so they were
           | forced to change their name.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _the corporate death penalty_
           | 
           | This is a silly idea lobbyists love because it sidesteps the
           | _actual_ corporate-destruction mechanism: liquidation to pay
           | massive fines, license revocation and /or personal liability
           | for senior management.
           | 
           | Consider even the penalties here, which effectively ban
           | Allred and Lambda from doing business. If you corporate
           | death'd them, the contracts and assets would still exist.
           | Allred would be unpunished. Everything would go back to
           | shareholders who were presumably fine with the _status quo_ ,
           | and would be fine putting them into a new entity that Allred
           | could manage. Okay, so you cancel the contracts. Now the
           | janitor who hasn't been paid in two months is screwed. Okay,
           | so you exempt employees. Allred's an employee! Exempt him?
           | What do you even pay the janitor with? Okay, exempt some
           | assets. How many? How do you choose who must keep paying
           | versus who is let off? Maybe _pro rata_? Who will administer
           | all this? _Et cetera, et cetera._
           | 
           | Contrast that to a massive fine. Company goes Chapter 7 and
           | into a deep body of law that has experience dealing with the
           | above. (Ideally paired with a license revocation from any
           | lending for Allred and the entity, in case they try to
           | Chapter 11.) Shareholders are wiped and free to pursue
           | Allred. Allred and Lambda are neutralised.
        
           | adrr wrote:
           | Or you could just toss people in jail. This case is clearly
           | wire fraud if the company knowing provided fraudulent hiring
           | rates to get people to pay money for a service.
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | > making false claims about graduates' hiring rates.
       | 
       | How seriously have colleges been investigated for the claims they
       | made convincing students to attend?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Any you'd like to highlight that come anywhere close to "we
         | picked a sample size of one student" or "no finance charge
         | means $4k finance charge"?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Colleges generally make nebulous claims about producing well-
         | rounded students I think. Seems hard to find anything specific
         | enough to be actionable.
        
       | saadatq wrote:
       | Unreal:
       | 
       | > Allred tweeted that the school achieved a 100 percent job-
       | placement rate in one of its cohorts, and later acknowledged in a
       | private message that the sample size was just one student.
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | Aha that's a gem, it's like that crypto company listed "audited
         | by <some famous reliable auditor >". They do not mention they
         | failed the audit, but they "did" get audited.
        
         | g42gregory wrote:
         | Technically, the statement is still valid. It's just that the
         | confidence interval will be wide. :-)
        
           | threeseed wrote:
           | He seems to be the king of technically.
           | 
           | "For a few months in 2013, Allred camped out of his car while
           | in Silicon Valley, and frequently describes this period as
           | having been homeless. However, a deleted post on his blog
           | titled 'Voluntarily Homeless in Silicon Valley' explains that
           | he lived out of a car by choice."
        
         | sandofsky wrote:
         | When confronted about this on Hacker News, Austen defended
         | himself with:
         | 
         | > I did say the hiring rate of a cohort of one student was
         | 100%. And in the same tweet I said, in all caps BUT VERY SMALL
         | SAMPLE SIZE. Odd how that doesn't make the article, don't you
         | think?
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26813371
         | 
         | Incidentally, it _did_ make it into the article he 's referring
         | to, twice.
        
         | tempsy wrote:
         | From what I've read about his career before this he was
         | basically a growth marketer/hacker
         | 
         | Like the only thing he knows how to do is fudge things with
         | dark patterns to achieve growth at any cost
        
       | solardev wrote:
       | Are there any _legit_ income-sharing schools of this type, tech
       | or otherwise? Done fairly, it sounds like an interesting
       | alternative to upfront tuition.
       | 
       | On the surface it doesn't seem like a bad model, but of course it
       | could be twisted to evil ends. From the article:
       | 
       | > The loans carry substantial risk, as a single missed payment
       | triggers a default and the remainder of the $30,000 "cap" becomes
       | due immediately.
       | 
       | > Students were therefore deprived of rights they should have had
       | when their "income share" loan was sold to an investor [without
       | the required Holder Rule provisions transferring legal
       | responsibilities to the new owners].
        
         | jimberlage wrote:
         | App Academy (in a much hotter 2013 job market) honored its 10%
         | of my first year's salary ISA when I attended. Anecdotally from
         | my cohort, they worked with people on missed payments without
         | triggering a balloon repayment.
        
         | LamaOfRuin wrote:
         | The income based repayment plans for federal student loans are
         | not that different (but without most of the sketchy practices).
         | 
         | The fact that those are an option for accredited schools means
         | I think it would be hard to make it work in a program like
         | this. Especially if there is any sort of venture interest
         | expecting actual returns. Actually educating people well is not
         | cheap and I have not seen any of these programs that actually
         | do anything innovative either.
        
       | foobarqux wrote:
       | Remember that the initial reporting of these crimes many years
       | ago was called a "hit piece".
        
       | etaioinshrdlu wrote:
       | These fines seem incredibly low to me - they're slaps on the
       | wrist!
        
         | next_xibalba wrote:
         | Putting these together:
         | 
         | "permanently bans BloomTech from all consumer-lending
         | activities and bans Allred from any student-lending activities
         | for ten years"
         | 
         | "ordering BloomTech and Allred to cease collecting payments on
         | income share loans for graduates who did not have a qualifying
         | job, eliminate finance changes for certain agreements, and
         | allow students the option to withdraw without penalty"
         | 
         | This order seems like a death sentence. If ISAs are defined as
         | consumer-lending, which the CFPB clearly says they are,
         | BloomTech cannot recruit new customers. And they cannot collect
         | on 50% of their outstanding loans (if the quoted internal
         | placement rate is true).
        
       | adubashi wrote:
       | There's probably a good argument to ignore rule breaking and
       | little deceptive marketing if the student outcomes are good but
       | it looks like in-aggregate that they weren't and that students
       | were better off taking a loan and attending Oregon State's Post
       | Bac in CS or Hack Reactor.
        
       | petsormeat wrote:
       | It's disappointing that California's Bureau for Private and Post-
       | Secondary Education (BPPE) continued to approve this boot camp. I
       | thought the rationale for creating the bureau was to discourage
       | scams in job training.
        
         | sandofsky wrote:
         | At first I found it weird that the BPPE can't discipline a
         | company until it's registered and operating legally. So for the
         | first few years, it couldn't do anything. The twist is that
         | until the BPPE approves a school to operate, any student debt
         | obligations up to that point are not valid. In theory, anyone
         | in California who enrolled before August 2020 owes them
         | nothing.
         | 
         | The problem is that Lambda School still tries to service those
         | debts. The victims are usually low-income, so they lack the
         | resources to lawyer up. If they do lawyer up, they end up being
         | forced into arbitration due to an arbitration clause in their
         | student agreements.
         | 
         | So in the end, it does feel like the BPPE is a half-measure
         | that doesn't fully tackle predatory companies.
        
       | wtf92345923 wrote:
       | Am I crazy, or do fines never come close to matching damages? Or
       | jailtime? I'm constantly seeing rulings or indictments where an
       | article says "defendant faces $1500 in fines or two years jail
       | time", as if those are in any way equivalent. Were all the fine
       | quantities written up in 1875 and just never got updated?
       | 
       | In this case, defendants are accused of conning "at least 11,000
       | income share loans" "carrying an average finance charge of around
       | $4,000", but their fine is $164,000? A fraud of $44M just for the
       | financing charges produces a fine of $164K? As I missing
       | something?
        
         | openasocket wrote:
         | Those articles you are reading are just poorly worded. For any
         | criminal case, it is a matter of fines AND jail time. You could
         | be sentenced to jail time and no fines, or fines and no jail
         | time (though this is rare), but the majority of the time you
         | get fines and jail time. Generally, for criminal issues, the
         | punishment is really in the jail time, the fine is just extra.
        
       | tempsy wrote:
       | Biggest red flag for me is Austen has basically become a full
       | time right wing reactionary on X/Twitter
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | It's been an illuminating few years realising how many
         | transition from startup tech bro to right wing reactionary.
         | Quite the customer intake funnel.
        
       | TheMagicHorsey wrote:
       | This is great. But I hope they do the same thing to so called
       | "legitimate" universities who have long deceived students as to
       | the value of the degrees they grant.
       | 
       | I recently met a liberal arts student from an Ivy League
       | university who has been under-employed for twenty years. She
       | still has unpaid student loans and she graduated in 2007! She has
       | had to work in retail positions from time to time. And she's
       | considering retraining via a vocational school to be an
       | electrician because that's what her father and brothers do and
       | they make 300K+ a year via the family business.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-04-17 23:00 UTC)