[HN Gopher] Everything We Can't Describe in Music
___________________________________________________________________
Everything We Can't Describe in Music
Author : anarbadalov
Score : 84 points
Date : 2024-04-16 19:02 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (hazlitt.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (hazlitt.net)
| taco_emoji wrote:
| "Terroir" is a terrible way to metaphorize timbre. The only
| similarity is that they're both hard to describe. Terroir is
| there before the wine is made and can't really be controlled by
| the winemaker (except insofar as they choose where to plant or
| what grapes to blend). Timbre is absolutely under the control of
| the musician.
| pimlottc wrote:
| I think the sense is more they're both about hundreds of unique
| physical characteristics, some of which are perhaps
| unquantifiable.
|
| The shape of an instrument, the material used, the type of
| strings, their tension, the temperature and humidity in the
| room. The way each player holds it, the size of their hands,
| the specific strength of their fingers. Some of these factors
| stay constant, others change from day to day or player to
| player. The sum of all of these together creates a specific
| timbre.
| btown wrote:
| > Terroir is there before the wine is made and can't really be
| controlled by the winemaker (except insofar as they choose
| where to plant or what grapes to blend).
|
| I've met winemakers who think of planting in terms of
| multigenerational experiments with highly intentional controls
| for different aspects of soil and micro-climate that may vary
| on a scale of a single meter, who work to find and train their
| successors because they will not see the results of some of
| these experiments in their lifetimes; winemakers who absolutely
| understand that blending is not just a linear combination of
| the characteristics of blended wines, but a truly complicated
| system where certain flavors may heighten others; winemakers
| who rely on centuries of experience in how funguses and other
| microorganisms can be used in safe and flavor-enhancing ways.
|
| Winemaking is engineering, just as musical instrument design is
| (both physical and digital), and just as building a startup is.
| The presence of human subjectivity as an evaluating oracle in a
| complex system does not imply that its creators work without
| intention or without rigorous systems-level thinking.
| ta2112 wrote:
| As a string player, terroir strikes me as a beautifully
| appropriate way to describe timbre. My instrument was
| constructed in the 19th century, probably in Germany. The
| luthier, their choice of wood, the shape, the workmanship, the
| strings, the bow, the weather, the player, the room, the mood,
| the other players all affect the sound. A large portion of the
| job of an instrumentalist is choosing which tools to use. There
| are always compromises, and many variables that effect the
| timbre simply are before a note is played, and have to be
| worked with.
| artimaeis wrote:
| I think this is just another point of frustration with trying
| to define timbre. There's definitely some points directly under
| control: attack and brightness come to mind. Then there's some
| that are less directly under control: the room and the
| instrument itself.
|
| It's no accident that musicians spend a lot of money on
| instruments -- even electric guitar players -- an instrument
| that is electronically amplified and often distorted and
| otherwise augmented -- will have strong feelings about the
| particular type of guitar they use. Leaving shape-based
| decisions out of it (and pickups), hollow bodies are going to
| produce a different sound than solid. Different wood types will
| produce different tonal characteristics.
|
| So the things that are directly controlled are less like
| terroir, more like choice of grape used maybe? While the make
| of the instrument, the shape of the room a recording was made
| in, these are much more like terroir I think.
|
| But it's probably just not a great metaphor.
| mrob wrote:
| >Different wood types will produce different tonal
| characteristics.
|
| True for acoustic guitars, but for electric guitars this is
| thoroughly debunked:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n02tImce3AE
|
| Previous HN discussion:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36106674
| tarentel wrote:
| As a synth enthusiast I generally think of timbre in relation to
| "real" instruments, brass, strings, piano, etc. In the article
| they mention there are as many as 10 dimensions but don't
| actually define what those are. Timbre is something I've thought
| about a lot but nailing down a more general classification seems
| pretty challenging.
| wrs wrote:
| That's funny, I'm more likely to describe "real" instrument
| timbres in synth terms, many of which I bet relate closely to
| the 10 dimensions. Oscillator waveform, envelopes, filter
| shape/cutoff, resonance...
| odyssey7 wrote:
| Arnold Schoenberg observed the deep connection between music,
| perception, and cognition; anticipated composers applying timbral
| control as is now commonly done with synthesizers; and apparently
| did not anticipate non-subtlety of the effect in EDM:
|
| "I think the tone becomes perceptible by virtue of tone color
| [timbre], of which one dimension is pitch. ... Pitch is nothing
| else but tone color measured in one direction. Now, if it is
| possible to create patterns out of tone colors that are
| differentiated according to pitch, patterns we call 'melodies',
| progressions, whose coherence evokes an effect analogous to
| thought processes, then it must also be possible to make such
| progressions out of the tone colors of the other dimension, out
| of that which we call simply 'tone color', progressions whose
| relations with one another work with a kind of logic entirely
| equivalent to that logic which satisfies us in the melody of
| pitches. That has the appearance of a futuristic fantasy and is
| probably just that. But it is one which, I firmly believe, will
| be realized.
|
| ...
|
| Tone-color melodies! How acute the senses that would be able to
| perceive them! How high the development of spirit that could find
| pleasure in such subtle things!"
|
| -- Arnold Schoenberg, Theory of Harmony, 1911, toward the end of
| chapter 22.
|
| Personally, I anticipate that if humanlike AGI is achieved, then
| it will understand the illusion of music. Not merely because
| music understanding is an attribute of _humanlike_ , but because
| there must be something intrinsic in the process of human
| cognition that causes the illusion of music occur. Music
| understanding could be viewed as an essential waypoint on the
| path to AGI.
| andoando wrote:
| I had a simple thought a couple years ago that still fascinates
| me. If you do something as simple as "clap clap clap" (with
| equal measures of time), you can naturally relate it to any
| other set of sounds with that simple pattern (ABABA). moreover,
| there is a 1 to 1 relation of this abstraction in space, where
| one can represent the sounds as marks on a screen (as I have
| done here for example, as "clap clap clap, X X X, - - -, or
| whatever).
|
| Despite the different sensory systems (sound, or visual) and
| the difference in actual data (I don't know how many photons or
| audio waves entering your brain), we can abstract them down and
| understand/relate them with a simple pattern.
| odyssey7 wrote:
| What you illustrate is deeply fascinating. In music, there is
| a grammatical perception that works both cognitively and as
| an embodied experience.
| andoando wrote:
| Yes, but its not just music. Our senses are very much
| linked in that we can build a one to one relation of ideas
| in visual space to auditory space and vice versa. There is
| a common abstract model we understand so to speak.
|
| Our model of perception is very finely tuned with that of
| space-time.
| sdwr wrote:
| Pop music really does do this as he described. There are lots
| of songs that play with expectations of timbre in the same way
| that normal music plays with expectations of pitch.
|
| When I get mentally crystallized, I hear music as proof-of-work
| in the vein of Bitcoin hashes.
| malloryerik wrote:
| I very much appreciate your comment, and at the same time am
| interested to challenge this idea of "the illusion of music".
| What about music is an illusion? Maybe this was just an
| unfortunate phrasing, and yet it might touch on the heart of
| the matter. Music is a language of relationships, indeed it is
| nothing but relationships, in time, pitch, timbre, volume,
| voice, number and so on, non-symbolic and changing
| relationships of sound carrying aesthetic and emotional feeling
| and meaning. It is both objective and subjective -- objective
| in the sense that "4 + 4 = 8" is an undeniably more beautiful
| statement than "4 + 4 = 6", and subjective in the sense that
| you and I may have different favorite numbers and also we may
| react differently to various medications or prefer different
| foods. Music is external and internal, social and individual.
| What it is not ever is an illusion as then it would not exist.
| (It may express illusion, or become more like a creator of
| illusions, for example when the orchestra tries to conjure up
| the illusion of a thunder storm.) Now, one might be tempted to
| counter that the kind of "meaning" music carries is itself an
| illusion, an epiphenomenon maybe, but then why should one care
| about anything at all, including AGI, since the kind of meaning
| that music carries is the same as the meaning of love, of hate,
| of good and bad, pains and pleasures, and hopes and regrets,
| tragedies and successes?
|
| Maybe a reason for calling music an illusion is to try to point
| out that it's all in our heads. Sure, the physical instruments
| are over there, but they are just some atoms and molecules
| rattling about creating vibrations that, like everything
| ultimately, share the meaninglessness of the physical universe
| of just more material stuff (ignoring the quantum and the
| unknown). In which case though life seems also to look more
| like an illusion. Ah but the meaningless vibrations enter our
| ears and are processed and become music, so like color there is
| none but in our heads, thus illusion? But these notions also
| fall apart. The redness of apples isn't all in our heads; it
| requires a certain relationship to light frequencies that we
| see as redness. It's not an illusion it's just what red looks
| like through a living human body. If not through our senses and
| brain, and then mind, where should we experience it?
|
| Music is only ever meaningless if it is unheard, as apples can
| only not be red when they are unseen (or are Granny Smiths).
|
| So music is only meaningless if there is nobody -- no body --
| to listen. And maybe that's where all of this leads. Your AGI
| needs to be embodied and alive.
| odyssey7 wrote:
| My use of _illusion_ was not intended to diminish the
| significance of music. To the contrary, I meant to
| distinguish it as an exceptional perceptual phenomenon which
| reveals important aspects of the inner workings of human
| experience.
|
| Somehow, the physical situations of our bodies become
| perceptual experiences. Usually, those perceptions are mere
| descriptions of the physical world, for physically navigating
| it. Some exceptions exist, such as music and optical
| illusions. The translation from air pressure fluctuations to
| a tree branch falling is one type of experience, the link to
| love or hope is another. Rather than being insignificant, my
| sense is that music understanding will prove to be an
| emergent capability available in whatever architecture might
| produce humanlike AGI, because it connects human perception
| and cognition too thoroughly to not be baked-in. Going
| further, building models to understand music would be an
| excellent step toward embodied AI with humanlike cognition.
| andoando wrote:
| This is something I've been thinking about the last 3-4
| years and desperately what I am trying to do.
|
| I have what I think some interesting ideas and
| implementations, but no one quite grasps my thought process
| and I am stuck between believing Im onto something and that
| I am furiously chasing nothing.
| cainxinth wrote:
| tldr: Timbre, the unique quality of a sound that distinguishes
| different voices or instruments from one another, is complex to
| define and measure and is often overlooked in music theory, which
| tends to focus more on pitch, rhythm, and harmony.
| navane wrote:
| Timbre is what makes the violin sound different from the bassoon,
| what makes the strings in general gives them their sound, and
| brass theirs. Timbre is what makes a singers voice unique.
|
| Classical composers had a set of fixed timbres to play with, each
| instrument having their own. With synthesizers everything is
| possible.
| nicklecompte wrote:
| "everything is possible" except for a synthesized instrument
| that actually has the expressive range of a real violin or
| saxophone. Even a synthesized piano is noticeably lifeless
| compared to the real thing (synthesized piano bass notes are
| especially thin).
| relaxing wrote:
| My trombone is lousy at reproducing the sound of a cello, but
| I don't consider it inferior.
|
| More to the point, the synthesizer has more options for
| expressiveness through change in timbre, glissando,
| microtones, etc.
| kazinator wrote:
| But nobody made the claim that everything is possible with
| a trombone.
| kazinator wrote:
| Only the the best grand pianos have any bass. Your cheap 43"
| tall console piano for apartment use will not have much bass
| to speak off. The strings are too short, the box is too
| small. We have to restrict ourselves to True Scotsman's
| pianos.
|
| Bass is easy to obtain out of a synthesizer: just make sure
| you have a subwoofer in the speaker system. It doesn't have
| to be a True Scotsman's synth or subwoofer.
| scns wrote:
| Well, you may be right. But there are musicians able to touch
| me deeply with synthesizers:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R8RaCLzGgE
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWgXVbI5ZRw
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjIzyeQrG7U
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEDhoRruflk
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJe1JKzcM8s
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0zRm5SjfQU
| elihu wrote:
| It depends on what synth you're using, and how you're
| controlling it. Most synthesizers and controllers are
| profoundly lacking in expressive control, and of course a
| synthesizer that just plays back a recorded sample of a real
| piano isn't going to sound as good as being in a room with
| the real thing. Just because the mainstream synthesizer world
| has been sort of stuck in a rut for 40 years doesn't mean
| this is the best we can do.
|
| There is, however, some real progress being made. For
| controllers, check out the Linnstrument, the Osmose, the
| Continuum. MPE was added to the MIDI spec a few years back,
| which makes it a lot more feasible to sell expressive
| instruments and have them "just work" with existing synths.
| As for synthesizers, just about anything is possible.
| Physical modelling is becoming more popular.
| mrob wrote:
| A real piano is also profoundly lacking in expressive
| control over timbre (excluding extended techniques like
| half-pedaling or directly touching the strings that hardly
| ever show up in the repertoire). The only control the piano
| gives you over note timbre is how hard you press the key.
| Once you've done that, the hammer disconnects from the key
| and flies through the air out of your control.
|
| A keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch, such as the Yamaha
| CS-80 (famously played by Vangelis), is objectively more
| expressive than a piano.
| butterchaos wrote:
| I am both a classical guitar player and long time synth head.
|
| "Everything is possible" is a bug and not a feature in many
| ways.
|
| It certainly is possible to synthesize an expressive
| instrument to the level you describe but what usually happens
| is you move on to something else.
|
| "What does this knob do??" Wahahahaha
|
| That kind of thing is just so much fun compared the guitar
| that you have to actually learn to play.
| analog31 wrote:
| There are two levels to "everything is possible." First,
| recorded music is a string of numbers, and any way of
| generating those numbers will sound like it's intended to. But
| synthesizing a desired sound is still an evolving process of
| developing _useful_ interfaces and waveform generators.
|
| Generating that sound in a live performance that is partially
| or fully improvised is a harder problem.
|
| The evolution of solutions to either problem depends on which
| instrument you're interested in, and is based partially on
| Means, Motive, and Opportunity. There's a reason to synthesize
| a piano or Hammond organ, which is that they're hard to
| transport and maintain. Less motive for synthesizing a violin.
| andoando wrote:
| Pitch is the frequency of the oscillation, timbre is the internal
| structure of what's oscillating. Is that right at all?
| hydrogen7800 wrote:
| "Everything is overtones", or so I've heard somewhere. The
| pitch, or note you hear from an instrument is the fundamental
| frequency, and the combination of overtones determines the
| timbre. These overtones are other sine waves at different
| amplitudes and frequencies, and the combination of these are
| instrument dependent. Additive synthesizers do this to
| approximate "real" instruments.
| taco_emoji wrote:
| It's also the shape of the wave. Sawtooth waves are buzzier
| or "brighter" than sine waves, for example.
| analog31 wrote:
| For periodic signals the waveform and the overtone series
| precisely determine one another.
| mrob wrote:
| And the human ear is mostly insensitive to phase of those
| overtones, so you can have waves with visually very
| different waveform that sound identical.
| andoando wrote:
| And the shape of the wave is just a composition of more
| waves :->
| hydrogen7800 wrote:
| This is a great visualization of fourier series.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18Gi8lSkfM
| andoando wrote:
| Man I wish my full time job was studying math.
| relaxing wrote:
| The combination of overtones, but also the change in volume
| of those overtones over time.
| scns wrote:
| A thousand times this.
| ta2112 wrote:
| Yes, that sounds mostly right to my understanding. Exploring
| the space of that internal structure is the point of the
| article. Both pitch and timbre get remarkably complicated the
| more they're looked in to.
| esafak wrote:
| Timbre is the quality that's left after you factor out the
| pitch and intensity. How it "sounds".
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| I've gotten a lot of use out of thinking of genre in relation to
| timbre. Not as the only relevant thing, but part of a
| constellation.
|
| In most genres you have a palette of timbres to work with for
| each instrument based on the genre conventions. You can push at
| the edges or add things in, but have to balance audience
| expectations carefully as you do it. So for example the way an
| electric bass sounds in contemporary metal is just not normally
| going to "fit" into a chicago blues band, even though both are
| heavily dependent on the sound of electric bass.
|
| Different genres have different relationships to this constraint,
| for example western classical has a huge palette available in an
| orchestra but is relatively averse to using instrumentation
| outside of that collection. Except in percussion, where there is
| a lot more flexibility! Jazz has a fairly small & rigid set of
| acceptable timbres for its core instruments, but is fairly
| tolerant of experimenting with new instrumentation.
|
| So then the two genre-timbre relationships I find most
| interesting are electronic and pop. Pop is, more than any other
| genre I think, curious about how timbre effects emotional
| response in music. An album by the same artist could have a huge
| range of different sounds for recognizable instruments, using the
| tension between them for different effects.
|
| And then large swaths electronic music are built largely around
| active change of timbre over time through a piece. Something you
| see used conservatively and carefully in most genres becomes
| almost the central practice.
|
| IDK it's hard to articulate and I'm not trying to set a
| reductionist framework about how music sounds or anything. Just a
| line of musical thought I've been exposed to and found valuable.
| tetha wrote:
| Well there is Dimmu Borgir, with an orchestra and a choir:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El4zsUZjsDc - and it is just
| nuts. Yes that's 90 minutes, but watch 5 and then decide.
|
| And that's why I love folk-ish metal so much.
|
| Why shouldn't we have a lead/harmony violin on top of a metal
| rhythm section? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F17sxgZdXZw
|
| Or a hurdy gurdy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT7HqIP55tI
|
| Or a pipa, which was btw very hilarious in poland:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwpKZtPBIEQ
|
| I'm honestly thinking of dropping some money to get myself an
| A-tuned drone flute[0]. Drone flutes sound really cool, and the
| drone would be tuned to just about the highest two notes on the
| guitar... and if you work with it a bit, drums/bass/rhythm
| guitars helping with rhythms, chords and harmony could really
| push that somewhere really interesting.
|
| 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3OlNNEuu88
| hnthrowaway6543 wrote:
| > Another way to think about timbre is by comparing instruments.
| In an old stand-up bit, Steve Martin strummed the banjo and
| mused, "You just can't sing a depressing song when you're playing
| the banjo . . . You can't just go, 'Oh, death, and grief, and
| sorrow, and murder.'
|
| Anyone who's played Outer Wilds should disagree with this.[0]
|
| To say we _can 't_ describe timbre is a bit misleading, because
| there are concrete mathematical ways to analyze sounds; they
| exist in a three-dimensional space of frequency, amplitude and
| time. But that's helpful in the same way that describing
| programming languages as collections of 1s and 0s is.
|
| What's lacking for describing timbre, I suppose, are the steps
| between "this sound is a sum of a particular arrangement of sine
| waves" and "this sound is a piano". There are common terms such
| as ADSR or "brightness" and "warmth" but those don't tell the
| full story.
|
| The question is, how valuable is that intermediate step when you
| could just say "this is a piano, this is a banjo"?
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR_wIb_n4ZU
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| I always thought the Outer Wilds OST was rather hopeful, in a
| rustic kind of way, not depressing.
| shagie wrote:
| I'd also recommend Timber Zeal -
| https://www.youtube.com/@SpaceBanjoMusic
| https://timbrzeal.bandcamp.com/music ... and the Hardspace
| Shipbreaker opening https://youtu.be/b4LbAr4uz9A
|
| You certainly can do minor with a banjo.
| adzm wrote:
| Notably easy when you tune the B string to a B flat. Instant
| minor!
| scns wrote:
| Thank you VERY much!
| shagie wrote:
| You might also find Hardspace: Shipbreaker - Music of Space
| https://youtu.be/RX_56MiOnAk interesting.
|
| > Watch our audio director Ben McCullough describes how he
| created a unique audio environment and soundtrack for a
| Hardspace: Shipbreaker.
| tarentel wrote:
| I don't know if I necessarily agree with that quote but your
| counter example does not give me emotions of death, grief,
| sorrow, or murder. It sounds very hopeful to me.
| hnthrowaway6543 wrote:
| And that just goes to show you how context-sensitive and
| subjective the emotional quality of sounds and music is. Half
| the people watching that video get teary-eyed when hearing it
| :)
| kazinator wrote:
| A banjo is plinky-plonky: it has a sharp attack, but not a lot
| of sustain. It's not great for playing a melody with long, slow
| notes. It's better suited for rhythmical patterns, and faster
| tempos. It's possible that a banjo could have a part in an
| ensemble piece about death, grief, sorrow and murder, but as a
| solo work, the idea does seem dodgy.
|
| It's not so much the timbre as the envelope. We have ways to
| talk about the not envelope. That is complex though, because
| different components of the sound can have different envelopes:
| e.g. high harmonics dying off before fundamentals. Envelope is
| not separable from timbre.
| pxc wrote:
| > Anyone who's played Outer Wilds should disagree with this.
|
| Not exactly about death, but certainly grieving things like the
| emotional blunting of psychiatric medications, inability to
| accept love or forgiveness, and lines like:
|
| > I'll pretend bein' with you doesn't feel like drowning
|
| Sounds decidedly less hopeful to me than that track from Outer
| Wilds
|
| live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psIRw0d509w
|
| studio version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-XICfi4j3Q
| mrob wrote:
| >You can't just go, 'Oh, death, and grief, and sorrow, and
| murder.'
|
| There's a whole sub-genre about this that's commonly played on
| banjo:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_ballad
| wordsinaline wrote:
| I've always thought of Jimi Hendrix as an example of timbre used
| for revolutionary purpose. A lot of what he acheived he acheived
| with timbre.
| logrot wrote:
| Timbre can vary a lot day by day on the same instrument.
|
| Violin and the bow are both made of wood and a rainy damp day can
| easily sound different than dry summer's day.
|
| You can get good carbon fiber bows and they are much less weather
| sensitive.
|
| You can also get carbon fiber violins but I haven't heard one
| that sounds as good as one made from wood.
| elihu wrote:
| > "Timbre's role in music has always been underrated, or even
| ignored, probably because it is an intangible that's difficult to
| describe, hard to categorize, and so far, immune to measurement.
| "
|
| In the mid-to-late 1800s, Herman Helmholtz was building
| spectrographs of musical sounds by listening to them through a
| bunch of resonators of varying sizes that acted as band-pass
| filters, and recording how loud each harmonic sounded.
|
| His writings are still relevant today.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Sensations-Tone-Dover-Books-Music/dp/...
|
| I've heard that the Sethares book (which is much more recent) is
| really good too, but I don't have a copy of that one.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Timbre-Spectrum-William-Sethar...
| alana314 wrote:
| We can get closer to the mathematical definition of timbre by
| talking about the strength of the harmonics
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAXK4QKJ1Q
| deltasepsilon wrote:
| This story was _not_ submitted by tintinnabula.
|
| I'm scandalized. /s
| Barneyhill wrote:
| I went to a interesting hackathon the other day focused on
| building tools for exploring timbre in sound
| https://comma.eecs.qmul.ac.uk/timbre-tools-hackathon/.
|
| Was brilliant, a lot of groups focusing on the use of ML to
| characterise the "unexplainable" in sound synthesis.
|
| We ended up submitting a tool for interacting directly with
| Ableton using LLM agents after becoming disenchanted with
| text2audio models, wrote about it here -
| https://montyanderson.net/writing/synthesis
| butterchaos wrote:
| Very cool. I will have to join "mod wiggler" lol.
|
| I have been out of it so long muff wiggler is now mod wiggler.
| Come on, that is absurd. Muff Wiggler was the best name ever.
| muxator wrote:
| The way a sound evolves in time contains a lot of timbrical
| information.
|
| Different harmonics have different ADSR curves (Attack, Decay,
| Sustain, Release).
|
| Above all, one cannot overstress the importance of the attack
| transient. There are famous experiments in psychoacoustics that
| show that, when deprived of their attack transient, the sounds of
| two different instruments may become hard to tell apart.
|
| Personal anecdote: as a classic guitarist, it took me three years
| of experimentation to find the right way to cut my fingernails in
| order to have a better sound. The Electronic Engineer in me says
| that those were three years spent to look for how to improve 0.1
| seconds of noise at the start of each of my notes.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| > when deprived of their attack transient, the sounds of two
| different instruments may become hard to tell apart
|
| A neat trick is playing guitar through a volume pedal. You mute
| the sound, pluck a string and then swell in the volume pedal.
| The rest of the ASDR envelope can be created with other effects
| like delays.
| superb-owl wrote:
| Highly recommend the book "Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale" for
| engineers interested in music theory
|
| https://sethares.engr.wisc.edu/ttss.html
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