[HN Gopher] Radxa Rock 5 ITX: 8-Core ARM Mini ITX Board with LPD...
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       Radxa Rock 5 ITX: 8-Core ARM Mini ITX Board with LPDDR5 RAM
        
       Author : sthlmb
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2024-04-15 16:39 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bret.dk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bret.dk)
        
       | favorited wrote:
       | I'm a bit confused by the wording on PoE:
       | 
       | > If you choose to power via PoE you can expect to get 25W of
       | output.
       | 
       | Can you power _this_ device via PoE ( "choose to power via PoE"),
       | or can this SBC power _other_ devices over PoE ( "expect to get
       | 25W of output")? I clicked through some other reviews, but didn't
       | see it addressed.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | The article says there are three ways to power it. The ATX
         | power supply connector, a DC barrel jack, and some third way
         | not specified.
         | 
         | It does have a USB3 port so that might be it, or it could be
         | PoE. Very unclear from the couple of articles.
        
         | sthlmb wrote:
         | Ah, you power this device via PoE and it can then draw up to
         | 25W from a PoE switch feeding it. You cannot power another
         | device via PoE with the ROCK 5 ITX as the source
        
         | maicro wrote:
         | Not sure if this was added or edited later, but the linked
         | article clarifies:
         | 
         | ROCK 5 ITX Power over Ethernet (PoE) Here we can see that the
         | PoE module is not soldered in and connects using 8 pins which
         | is quite nice. If you choose to power the ROCK 5 ITX via a PoE
         | switch (the ROCK 5 ITX doesn't provide PoE power to another
         | device) you can expect to get 25W of power budget for the
         | system itself and any peripherals/devices you plan to power
         | from the boards connectors.
         | 
         | (my summary of that quoted section:) So, you can power the
         | board with PoE, which will give the board and any connected
         | devices 25W of power budget. Without looking at the specs of
         | the CPU/GPU, that's probably enough to run at least one m.2
         | drive and a couple USB peripherals?
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | It's not fast, but at least it's cool.
        
       | amiga-workbench wrote:
       | When these ARM boards start coming with UEFI and I don't need to
       | hunt around for blessed OS images with patched kernels I'll be a
       | lot more interested, until then I've got to stick with x86 to
       | maintain my sanity.
        
         | robotnikman wrote:
         | Same thing I'm thinking as well when it comes to ARM PC's,
         | being restricted to a specifically patched distro is very
         | limiting.
        
         | drewg123 wrote:
         | How do we know it doesn't? I didn't see any info in the linked
         | page about the system firmware, though I could easily have
         | missed it.
        
         | Rinzler89 wrote:
         | UEFI is not enough if you don't have all the drivers in the OS
         | image, especially the GPU drivers. Last year I bought a cheap
         | Windows Qualcomm 8xx ARM tablet on sale and it was very nice
         | for the money but I returned it when none of the ARM Linux ISOs
         | I found online could boot on it despite the tablet having UEFI
         | support, because Qualcomm.
         | 
         | Booting Linux distros out of the box is such a non-issue on X86
         | that we take it for granted when on ARM it's just a pipe dream.
         | 
         | If the ARM PC future is all proprietary custom firmware blobs
         | that need to patched for each SoC/motherboard for Linux to
         | boot, then you can keep them, I'll stick to X86 thank you very
         | much.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | Part of the point of UEFI is to support a graphical
           | framebuffer and HID devices (keyboard and mouse) out of the
           | box, that's what powers the fancy BIOS setup screens on newer
           | PC's. Hardware-specific drivers are supposed to be optional.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Can I run X or Wayland with the UEFI framebuffer?
        
         | aseipp wrote:
         | FWIW, there is a port of EDK2 to the RK3588, which is what
         | powers this board. Most of the peripherals work. So that's
         | nice. But the thing is, it isn't UEFI so much as the device-
         | tree/ACPI distinction you need to be mindful of. ARM systems
         | use both methods (whereas everything on x86 is ACPI.) You can
         | use either DTBs (kernel configuration option) or ACPI to boot
         | Linux on this device, though.
         | https://github.com/edk2-porting/edk2-rk3588
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | Bingo. Basically ARM SystemReady SR or gtfo.
         | 
         | In practice that means Ampere Altra CPU. There was a uatx board
         | released recently that seems viable, if bit pricy.
         | 
         | https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-revi...
         | 
         | https://www.arm.com/architecture/system-architectures/system...
        
         | packetlost wrote:
         | RK3588 has pretty good mainline kernel support
        
       | jandrese wrote:
       | Anybody have a clue what the price point will be? This board
       | seems pretty neat as a SFF PC replacement, but not so much if it
       | costs $500 or more.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | I've been looking at these kinds of boards as well:
       | https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/02/10/2000
       | 
       | So far, mostly the same results, although I do have another with
       | much more RAM that I'm still writing a draft on.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | It's always the software that's the missing element.
       | 
       | I prefer low end Intel compatible boards because the software
       | just works. I spent too many hours with weird arm devices trying
       | to get them to do basic stuff that is taken for granted on Intel,
       | such as booting up.
        
       | drewg123 wrote:
       | Too bad it doesn't have PCIe slots. It could be interesting as a
       | low-end 10Gb/e storage/web server if it had enough I/O.
        
         | alexchamberlain wrote:
         | 2x 2.5Gb/s interfaces are pretty chunky on this spec of board,
         | isn't it?
        
           | drewg123 wrote:
           | I have a board with a 16 core A78 serving static content via
           | 100Gb/s (encrypted via ktls, offloaded to the NIC).
           | 
           | My arm fu is not good, so I'm not sure how a quad-core A76
           | compares.
        
             | NewJazz wrote:
             | What board is that?
             | 
             | A78 is a couple generations newer.
        
               | drewg123 wrote:
               | Nvidia Bluefield3
        
               | dist1ll wrote:
               | The BF3 is a DPU, not an SBC right? Or can it be operated
               | without a host? I'm curious about your setup.
        
         | NewJazz wrote:
         | The M.2 is PCIe. 4 lanes of Gen 3. You can get an adapter if
         | you want the traditional form factor.
         | 
         | But then you give up the storage :/
        
           | sthlmb wrote:
           | The M.2 NVMe only has 2 lanes of Gen 3 on this board, the
           | other 2 are given to the SATA controller
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Why Not Smaller?
       | 
       | Why is this board so (physically) large in size?
       | 
       | You can see how much wasted space, by looking at this photo:
       | 
       | https://bret.dk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/radxa_rock_5_itx_...
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Its as large as the IO Panel. Also that space is for an M2
         | drive, no?
        
           | sthlmb wrote:
           | Yes, those are the mounting holes for the M.2 that's
           | connected to the left of the photo (visible in other photos)
        
           | tiffanyh wrote:
           | But Pico-ITX boards exist with M.2 support.
           | 
           | And those boards are about 1/3rd the size of Mini-ITX
           | 
           | Eg
           | 
           | https://www.aaeon.com/en/p/pico-itx-boards-amd-
           | ryzen-v2000-p...
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | That board is double-sided: the CPU and the SSD slot are on
             | the back, while this ITX board has all the connectors and
             | the processor on the top. That makes a difference both for
             | the complexity and cost of building the board, and the
             | complexity of assembling a system with the board, heatsinks
             | and all.
        
             | ThatPlayer wrote:
             | But there aren't really generic Pico-ITX cases are there?
             | What's the point of designing a Pico-ITX board if you need
             | a custom case anyways? Just use the Radxa Rock 5B at that
             | point.
        
             | sthlmb wrote:
             | I don't think they were saying that it has to be that big
             | to fit an M.2 drive on it, they're pointing out that in the
             | picture you shared, that space is for the M.2 NVMe drive to
             | be mounted in
        
         | msk-lywenn wrote:
         | This is aimed at desktop use. I guess it would be hard to mount
         | if it was smaller than mini-ITX spec and/or wouldn't mount
         | firmly on some/many desktop cases.
        
         | stonogo wrote:
         | Why not bigger? Why not a full-size ITX mainboard? There's no
         | pleasing everyone.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | Your point stands, but I don't think there is such a thing as
           | full-size ITX; Mini-ITX is the largest ITXl; Mini-ITX is
           | backwards compatable with ATX, so perhaps you meant "full-
           | size ATX?"
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | The whole point of this product is that it is _standard_ ITX
         | sized. Radxa has several sibling products with smaller
         | footprints, e.g. Rock 5C https://radxa.com/products/rock5/5c/
        
         | Findecanor wrote:
         | Because the form factor is the point of this board. There are
         | already other smaller SBCs with the same SoC but with much less
         | connectivity.
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | is the board still low profile for mini-itx case? the 2USB+HDMI
       | seems a little higher than I remembered.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | ATX and mini-ITX should use the same size IO shield.
        
       | Scramblejams wrote:
       | One of the big selling ports of ARM is lower power consumption so
       | I'd have loved to see some numbers, particularly idle watts.
       | 
       | Also, I can find full photos of the board elsewhere but full
       | front and back pics of it would have been nice to include.
        
       | sthlmb wrote:
       | tkaiser has some additional information from his initial testing
       | at
       | https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowledge/blob/master/articl...
       | if people are curious to know more, though it should be noted
       | these were early release samples and as such, software/firmware
       | isn't exactly perfect at the moment
        
       | dist1ll wrote:
       | No PCIe connectivity is very unfortunate. I think these
       | ARM/RISC-V SBCs are very attractive in combination with high-
       | throughput NICs (or if you're into AI, things like the
       | Tenstorrent cards). That'd be very nice for building smaller
       | prototypes of 100G+ edge compute, CDNs, cloud, serverless
       | platforms etc. without having to shell out for an Ampere Altra
       | (or x86 equivalent).
       | 
       | Nowadays there's such a big move towards heterogeneity that good
       | PCIe connectivity feels like table stakes for SBCs.
        
       | jordemort wrote:
       | I'd love something like this with socketed RAM so much, the only
       | ARM boards I've seen with socketed RAM so far are high-end
       | expensive server stuff.
        
         | sthlmb wrote:
         | They did mention on their forums that a ROCK 6 ITX would likely
         | come with socketed RAM but that's not likely to be until later
         | this year sadly
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-15 23:01 UTC)