[HN Gopher] A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel
___________________________________________________________________
A tiny ultrabright laser that can melt steel
Author : rbanffy
Score : 272 points
Date : 2024-04-15 09:02 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
| xavieralexandre wrote:
| The article rightly points out the industrial impact of more
| powerful and compact lasers but I cannot wait for those PCSELs to
| reach the small workshop market. Having a cheap laser able to cut
| metal at home / small shops would be so useful (And sneakily
| dangerous as lasers are).
| pureheartlover wrote:
| Honestly I'm kinda surprised there aren't handheld laser
| engraving devices made for quick and permanent graffiti.
| abakker wrote:
| There are abundant portable galvo head lasers out there. A
| lot of them targeting the hobby market, but also more
| powerful ones (that are less cheap) meant for marking or
| engraving parts in situ.
|
| Everlast now has a laser welder, too.
|
| I think it's only a matter of time before we get cheaper
| cutter in the 1kw range.
| nomel wrote:
| And cheaper DMLS printers [1].
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxzFzbi0wF4
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| On that note, did anyone ever make a handheld inkjet or spray
| nozzle, so you could print graffiti on walls or things on the
| go? I imagine most of the tech in it would be the same as in
| the kind of laser device you're asking about.
| daef wrote:
| the colop e-mark stuff basically puts an inkjet head into a
| handheld printer https://www.colop.com/de_eur/mobiles-
| drucken/e-mark
| garaetjjte wrote:
| https://spritesmods.com/?art=magicbrush
| codesnik wrote:
| or quick and permanent scar
| bloggie wrote:
| These do exist, here's one I saw recently:
| https://www.laserpwr.net/hand-held-laser/hand-held-
| laser-2.h...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| 30W? That's a pretty powerful laser. A 1W laser can set
| stuff on fire. A 5W laser can cut steel.
| ben_w wrote:
| > A 5W laser can cut steel
|
| I've experimented with using a 60 W (I think*) laser on a
| small steel bracket, and even with the beam holding on a
| single point for a minute, it made a barely visible dot
| that you couldn't feel by running your finger over.
|
| * It was nearly a decade ago, but I looked up the
| relevant hacker space and unless they changed the model,
| it was 60 watts.
|
| The bracket was around 1cm by 5cm, and around 1mm thick.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Fair 'nuff.
|
| I know that a friend had a 3-5W laser (don't remember -it
| was a CO2 laser) he used for wood burning, and it was
| fast.
|
| It may also be what they measure.
| dangrossman wrote:
| A 60W CO2 laser won't touch steel (or even paper thin
| aluminum foil), while a 10W diode can cut through it. The
| type/wavelength of laser matters greatly.
| lightedman wrote:
| 60w back then would be a CO2 LASER - that's 10600nm and
| that basically bounces off any non-oxidized metal.
|
| The fiber marking LASERs at work are 1064nm, and at a
| mere 20w output, will absolutely eat away at steel with
| no problems.
|
| Edit: I should note there are CO2 metal cutting LASERs,
| but they are at very, very high output powers to overcome
| that reflectivity barrier. You need 500w 10600nm to cut
| through what a 30w 1064nm could cut. My 80w CO2 barely
| cuts through heavy-duty aluminum foil, and in many spots
| it isn't a full cut. A 20w marking LASER at 1064 would
| obliterate the foil.
| bloggie wrote:
| Keep in mind that is the constant (average) power.
| Assuming this is a Q-switched laser with ~10 ns pulse
| duration, peak power is ~70 kW. (Kind of low as far as
| lasers go these days, but it's just a laser marker)
| IshKebab wrote:
| A 5W laser can't cut steel. You need to be in the
| kilowatts before you can cut metal (unless it is very
| very very thin).
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| You may well be correct, and I spoke out of turn, but it
| is my understanding that the wavelength of the laser can
| make a _huge_ difference.
| drtgh wrote:
| I'm sorry, but there's no way around it, with 5W you can
| cut metal just as easily as you can cut a tree with a
| knife. At least with contemporary technology (In the
| future who knows).
| coder543 wrote:
| Can you expand on why you think this would be so great for home
| workshops? How do you envision using the laser? Handheld,
| mounted, or on a CNC?
| mft_ wrote:
| CNC would be an obvious implementation.
|
| At the moment, there are expensive-but-affordable home CNC
| laser cutters, typically for a _small number of thousand_ EUR
| /USD. The more powerful ones can do a very neat job cutting
| (up to a few mm of) plywood. There are also CNC plasma
| cutters, which do a good but slightly rough job of cutting
| sheet metal, and are relatuvely large and complex beasts. I
| guess a highly-powerful laser, of the type envisioned, would
| offer the best of all worlds: relatively neat and quick
| cutting of all materials on the same compact machine.
|
| They might also replace handheld plasma cutters (and
| welders?) too.
| coder543 wrote:
| Yeah, my larger point is that there are already plenty of
| ways to cut metal in a home workshop.
|
| I don't see how a laser would be an improvement on any of
| those, _unless_ the goal is to CNC with extremely tight
| tolerances, but even then... it seems unlikely that you 'll
| be CNCing _blocks_ of metal, more likely just 2D cuts from
| sheets of metal, which is pretty limiting.
|
| It would certainly be fun for some stuff, but I think the
| danger level of a super high power laser detracts from the
| fun.
|
| More powerful cutting lasers would definitely be great for
| industrial use cases.
| mft_ wrote:
| You're right that such things already exist; I think it
| would offer two _incremental_ improvements:
|
| * for wood, faster and/or thicker cutting, vs. existing
| CNC laser cutters
|
| * for sheet metal, neater/cleaner cutting (i.e. cleaner
| cuts, higher tolerances, less subsequent prep-work
| needed) perhaps in a smaller neater machine, vs. existing
| CNC plasma cutters.
|
| Especially within the context of a CNC machine, I
| wouldn't be overly concerned about safety - all of the
| more powerful CNC laser cutters I'm aware of already come
| with an exclosure - both for laser safety, and to
| constrain smoke (before it's vented safely).
| 83 wrote:
| The precision of a laser cutter would open up a lot of
| possibilities. Particularly making things that slot
| together with tabs - like fabbing my own welding squares
| and fixtures where a cnc plasma cutter would leave too
| rough an edge to have them slot together accurately.
| coder543 wrote:
| Can't you buy a CNC mill/router that can cut metal more
| precisely than a CNC plasma cutter?
| 91bananas wrote:
| Completely different processes for completely different
| things.
| coder543 wrote:
| Yes, and a laser cutter is also a completely different
| process for completely different things... yet you can
| still do some of the same things, and a CNC mill would be
| more appropriate for smooth cuts than a CNC plasma
| cutter.
| mrWiz wrote:
| Not cheaply, which was part of the OP's post.
| coder543 wrote:
| Yes, for relatively cheaply. I'm not talking about a
| 5-axis CNC mill, and I'm not saying it'll be fast. But a
| laser cutter is not fast either, and even if lasers get
| more powerful... a really powerful one is unlikely to be
| "cheap".
| alanbernstein wrote:
| Of course it depends on what you're doing, and what
| you're comparing to, but in my experience, laser cutting
| is the fastest option for hobby-level fabrication.
| bsder wrote:
| Tormach metal CNCs are $10K+ and take up a lot of
| floorspace.
|
| A lot of people also cut sheet metal which a CNC tends to
| be terrible at.
| coder543 wrote:
| We're talking hobbyist grade stuff here. People mount
| router bits on $400 CNCs and cut metal all the time.
|
| Not $10k: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=637
|
| Even though it's cheap, the cuts still look pretty smooth
| and precise. I can't speak to the safety, as I would hope
| a $10k CNC would have more safety features.
| bsder wrote:
| They cut _aluminum_. Generally not well.
|
| This part is actually a typical _good_ result in spite of
| how bad it is: https://youtu.be/w26DHMccicE?t=731
|
| Deflection is bad. Repeatability is poor. etc.
|
| If you put even mild steel on that, that machine will
| have no hope.
| coder543 wrote:
| Okay, but if you're expecting a magical new diode laser
| to cut steel any time soon... good luck. That's what most
| of this discussion is about. I think starting with a
| cheap CNC is more likely to work out.
| bsder wrote:
| o_O?
|
| The article literally has a video of the laser actually
| cutting _stainless steel_ (aka the Devil 's chewing gum).
| The title says "melt steel". That was the practically the
| whole point of making these kinds of laser.
|
| Video link: https://youtu.be/SFXmFNTviRI
| coder543 wrote:
| Yes... but you can't buy it. It's in a research lab. And
| even once it goes into production, what are the odds that
| it's going to be affordable? They can probably sell every
| laser they can produce at a very high price for a long
| time before supply catches up to demand, even though this
| is supposed to be easy to manufacture.
|
| I'm just extremely skeptical of it being cheaper than a
| $10k CNC any time soon. Hardware is hard. Semiconductors
| are even harder.
|
| https://xkcd.com/678/
|
| I would _love_ to be wrong.
|
| And that video is unsatisfying because they show a mark
| on the steel, but -- as far as I saw -- they never show
| any steel piece that was cut out by the laser.
| alanbernstein wrote:
| I use a 120W laser cutter for practical, precise, CNC
| projects all the time. I use a lot of 1/4" acrylic
| because it's a good material for this class of machine,
| but it's not the best option, structurally. If I could do
| the same with 1/8" or 1/16" steel, I would likely switch
| to that for almost every project.
|
| I love the idea of using a mill/router instead, but IMO
| the more complicated process is fundamentally more
| dangerous. If a reflected beam can conceivably pierce the
| enclosure though, hmmm...
| 83 wrote:
| Diode based lasers have driven the cost to laser cut
| plywood down to affordable levels (~$200 for a
| creality/comgrow/chinabrand 5w laser). I just bought two of
| them off ebay as "customer returned" for $75 dollars a
| piece. they work great on the 1/8in plywood and 3/8in foam
| i've been cutting. Haven't tried 1/4in ply yet but I bet
| going slower or multi pass and it will do it.
|
| Edit: It easily cut 1/4 ply (used 2 passes, but judging by
| the burn marks behind it I only need one). And that's
| without air assist to clear to the smoke which would help
| it cut deeper.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| What is this genre of machine called, just a laser
| cutter? I would love to play with this
| coder543 wrote:
| Yes, laser cutter/engraver.
| pksebben wrote:
| Look for "diode laser cnc". If you search for "laser
| cutter" or "engraver" the results get mixed in with all
| kinds of larger machines.
|
| The world of home laser apparati is kinda wild.
| cjenkins wrote:
| Bit of a tangent, but you might have better luck with
| hardwood vs. plywood. The glue in plywood makes it more
| difficult for CO2 lasers to cut through. I was super
| surprised when someone at work mentioned they were able to
| blow through some hardwood in a single pass but had a
| struggle to get through plywood.
| Arrath wrote:
| Does the heating from the laser cause any softening of
| the glue/weakening/delamination of the layers?
| xavieralexandre wrote:
| Some types of glue absorb a lot of the laser energy.
| There are dedicated plywood optimized for laser cutting
| https://n-e-r-v-o-u-s.com/blog/?p=6042
| hallway_monitor wrote:
| I found a 5W CNC laser on sale for a little over $100. It's
| really fun and useful to cut things out of 2mm wood. Like the
| sibling says, having the metal cutting version of this at
| home would be amazing. I have access to one at a shop in the
| local university that can cut 4-5mm metal - thick enough for
| a lot of applications.
| detritus wrote:
| Not Poster, but commercially-available solid state lasers top
| out at a few tens of watts and due to limited wavelengths
| have restricted usage on certain materials (eg. even
| different colours of the same type of plastic may or may not
| cut, well or at all). I know I've a machine in mind that
| would be great to make if the available diode lasers were
| able to cut a wider range of materials, never mind metals.
|
| If it can cut metal, it'd probably not suffer much in the way
| of limitations on other materials... .
| phkahler wrote:
| >> (And sneakily dangerous as lasers are)
|
| These seem safer. With a wide emission area and focusing lens,
| a reflected beam will weaken with distance.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Indeed, I feel less worried about my 50w solid state laser
| cutting head from China than I would a 5w laser pointer, as
| the 50w laser head has a 5mm focal distance and the head has
| a 50mm square housing, so it mostly obscures what it is
| lasing and it defocuses quickly.
| Blackthorn wrote:
| Given how quickly dangerous these compact lasers can be, I
| think I'd rather stick with the handheld plasma cutter.
| rozap wrote:
| The quality of the cuts out of a plasma cutter are not great.
| I always have to spend some time cleaning them up after the
| fact. I'd hope laser cut parts are much better.
| Qworg wrote:
| Given large scale laser cuts I've seen - they require less
| cleanup, but still some. You spatter molten metal
| everywhere.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| I have a CNC plasma cutter which I use for making robots,
| and have also worked with laser cut metal. The laser
| cutter is so, so much more precise. On the plasma I cut
| some gear teeth with 5mm pitch and they're okay for a
| coarse positioning system that doesn't rotate
| continuously. On a laser you could cleanly cut 1mm pitch
| gears for continuous rotation I would think.
| Qworg wrote:
| Oh, absolutely! I was more speaking to the clean up.
| Lasers are a big step up.
| Blackthorn wrote:
| If I'm doing handheld cuts I'm not holding out that much
| hope for precision anyway.
| sylware wrote:
| Aren't such laser cutters in enclosing opaq casing with a
| operation monitoring camera to avoid accidents?
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Plenty are available for sale without the casing, such as
| this one:
|
| https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804553731471.html
|
| I have worked with several nicer fully enclosed models that
| do not have any monitoring camera. I have a similar model to
| this one with no such camera, and I suspect this one does not
| have one either:
|
| https://omtechlaser.com/products/60w-co2-laser-engraver-
| with...
|
| That said if a kilowatt metal cutting laser was for sale, I
| would suspect it would have a full enclosure at least.
| dtgriscom wrote:
| They _should_ be so enclosed, but I doubt they 're _always_
| so enclosed.
| MarcScott wrote:
| These lasers mean that the watches that Q gave to James Bond
| will finally become a reality.
|
| LLMs and self-driving cars mean that KITT from Knight Rider
| will finally become a reality.
|
| All I need is for Webb to discover a planet a long time ago, in
| a galaxy far, far, away, and my childhood fictions will have
| been realised.
| thesz wrote:
| > Having a cheap laser able to cut metal at home / small shops
| would be so useful (And sneakily dangerous as lasers are).
|
| So, please do not come around these lasers with remaining eye
| unprotected.
|
| I think one should work with these things only using some
| cameras and never directly.
| gcanyon wrote:
| This article on society 5.0 doesn't mention lasers. Anyone have
| info on why ultra-powerful lasers are critical to specifically
| this plan for the future?
|
| https://www8.cao.go.jp/cstp/english/society5_0/index.html
| globalise83 wrote:
| If you look at the document linked at the bottom of the page
| you shared:
| https://www8.cao.go.jp/cstp/kihonkeikaku/5basicplan_en.pdf
|
| it mentions the following list of priorities for the plan, and
| with a bit of creativity it is possible to imagine ways how
| cheap, powerful, compact lasers could benefit each of them in
| turn. Probably, and more mundanely, the researchers are doing
| their best to justify their research grants by connecting the
| outcomes to the political priorities of the day.
|
| "Hence, Japan will consolidate the following fundamental
| technologies in particular, which function as core technologies
| in the real world, for new value creation in individual
| systems. - Robotics: technology expected to be used in various
| fields such as communication, social service/work assistance,
| and manufacturing - Sensor technology: technology that collects
| information from humans and all kinds of "things" - Actuator
| technology: technology related to activating mechanism, drive,
| and control devices in the real world, as well as the results
| of information processing and analysis obtained in cyberspace -
| Biotechnology: technology transforming sensor and actuator
| technologies - Human interface technology: technology using
| augmented reality, affective engineering, neuroscience, etc. -
| Material/nanotechnology: technology that leads to
| differentiated systems through enhanced functionality of
| various components, such as innovative structural materials and
| new functional materials - Light/quantum technology: technology
| that leads to differentiated systems through enhanced
| functionality of various components, such as innovative
| measuring techniques, information/energy transfer technology,
| and processing technology."
| andrewflnr wrote:
| I'll bite. How do lasers help actuators? (But yeah, most of
| that only takes a little imagination.)
| aqme28 wrote:
| A society in which "the average car-buyer" has a tiny portable
| steel-melting laser is a society where I'm wearing welding
| goggles every time I leave the house. And I'm not sure how you
| even lock a bike or a door or a safe any more.
| big_man_ting wrote:
| This is a terrifying prospect indeed, especially being located
| in the Netherlands, plenty bikes are getting stolen left and
| right already.
|
| But I guess this is inevitable, so we'll just have to devise
| better solutions than the simple locks which in their working
| principles have not changed in the past 100+ years.
|
| Great market opportunity around the corner I suppose.
| boxed wrote:
| Plenty of locks are mostly just for show anyway. See
| Lockpicking Lawyers youtube channel.
| dnpls wrote:
| Yes, but the average bike thief is looking for an easy
| steal and will avoid wasting time on a locked bike. Bikes
| in the Netherlands usually have 2 locks (a wheel lock and
| an extra chain), so thieves will usually move on from those
| first. A portable laser might allow a thief to steal even
| previously safer bikes just because it makes it quicker and
| silent (I'm assuming both).
| sarchertech wrote:
| It won't be quicker. The laser in the demonstration was
| cutting through 100 micrometers of steel.
|
| Cutting through a chain is going to take much much
| longer. There are already quicker methods to cut or break
| bike chains and disable locks.
|
| Also cutting with a laser requires very precise alignment
| with respect to distance. You won't be free handing this.
| You'd need to mount it on a device capable of precisely
| adjusting the distance as you cut deeper into the metal.
|
| Plus it's relatively easy to engineer laser resistant
| materials.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| Probably not. Heating steel doesn't cut it, it just forms
| a puddle of molten metal that will cling to the base
| material. For cutting to work, you need to blow it off
| somehow.
|
| For plasma and oxy-fuel cutting, the hot gases coming out
| the nozzle acts as the mass that blows it off. Air carbon
| arc gouging uses regular compressed air to push the
| molten material away. I imagine industrial laser cuttings
| dealing with anything larger then a few millimetres thick
| would use compressed air as well.
|
| I doubt a smaller more efficient laser is going to change
| that reality.
| adolph wrote:
| It is an interesting problem since the existence of one
| cutter forces on offense forces all defenders to make
| substantial changes. I suspect the most expedient way will be
| to semi-criminalize carry of the devices, similar to spray
| paint in some places.
| sarchertech wrote:
| There are already so many ways to defeat locks, that locks are
| just there to keep honest people honest and to slow down
| criminals.
|
| The laser in the article took 30 seconds to cut a a tiny disc
| out of a sheet of steel 100 micrometers thick. That isn't going
| to change things on the theft front. There are much more
| effective methods available today.
| lucioperca wrote:
| A dutch women told me once a story, where she but a used bike
| in Amsterdam and the heroin addict who sold it to her,
| threaten her to steal it again, if she does not use a heavy
| lock.
| passwordoops wrote:
| When I moved to the Netherlands my boss told me to never
| spend more than 20 euro on a bike because it will get
| stolen. I didn't listen, and lo and behold two weeks in my
| 75 euro bike and the 35 euro heavy duty lock disappeared
| themaninthedark wrote:
| That is rather sad to hear.
| notyoutube wrote:
| I'm skeptical:
|
| * Where do you buy a <=20 euro bike?
|
| * Most people on the street have bikes that look to be at
| least 200 euros new, from what I can tell.
| henriquecm8 wrote:
| They didn't mention the year of the story, it could've
| happened a couple of decades ago.
| yolo3000 wrote:
| I've never done it, but you buy it from the thief
| (junkie) directly. So it could be that you find them by
| word of mouth, like you would use to buy drugs when they
| were illegal. But you can also buy a second hand bike
| very cheaply, some are even free (just an example:
| https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-
| her...). New bikes are usually more than 200 euros, dutch
| brands are 500 euros and up
| passwordoops wrote:
| This was 2010-ish and I found one on Marktplaats. Might
| be going for 40 or 50 now with inflation. People selling
| them on the street also had for cheap, but these were
| most definitely stolen.
| ben_w wrote:
| Last time I bought a bike for PS20 even second-hand, the
| Euro had not yet been introduced.
|
| Even in 2011, when I made the mistake of spending PS90
| for a new bike... well, the pedals came off while riding
| it due to metal fatigue.
|
| Adjusting for inflation*, I'd expect similar build
| quality from a bike that "only" cost EUR200 today.
|
| * hard to do when there is also a currency switch,
| especially when the exchange rate has changed so much
| jandrese wrote:
| Presumably from the bike thieves. There's a glut in the
| stolen bike market so the price competition is fierce.
| antisthenes wrote:
| It seems like that that point the bike thieves are just a
| bike rental company.
|
| You get the bike for < 20 Euro and then, presumably, at
| some point in the future it gets stolen again, but you
| already got 20 Euros worth of use out of it.
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| "Discount Variable Duration" rental program.
| rafale wrote:
| Efficient market hypothesis proven.
| swader999 wrote:
| Police unclaimed bike auctions maybe.
| Thorrez wrote:
| Does the Netherlands have a law against knowingly buying
| stolen property?
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| Every place in the world does probably. But how would you
| prove an unmarked, cheap bike was stolen?
| Propelloni wrote:
| You wouldn't but nowadays no bike is unmarked, even the
| cheap ones.
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Can't you trivially deface an identifier?
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| In Belgium, it's a hard to remove sticker on a consistent
| place with a qr code.
|
| It would take work to remove it cleanly and/or cost
| money/time to paint over it.
|
| So it's less attractive.
|
| Ps. You'll still need to take care of your 10 k. Bike
| ofc.
|
| Ps. 2 : engraving isn't done anymore since bike frames
| got smaller.
| lukan wrote:
| How would you know a marked bike was stolen? Does the
| police offer a public listing of all the stolen bikes?
|
| (I do not think so, but this probably would make sense)
| dghughes wrote:
| If you can't and the owner can and if you are caught then
| you are liable.
| Swizec wrote:
| The Netherlands famously has more bicycle thefts per year
| than citizens. At this point you could almost think of
| cheap commuter bikes as public property.
|
| People in countries where bicycling is not seen as a
| personality statement generally ride very cheap city
| bikes around town. Last time I bought one of those in
| college it cost about 30eur. Is not like in SF where
| people ride 3000 dollar bikes to work because omg you're
| a cyclist now and this is your whole identity.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Here in the part of Canada I live in, you see some of the
| $3000 bike identity stuff, but most people ride something
| in the $500-$750 range. Something practical, comfortable,
| reliable, etc.
|
| There is also a growing segment of people who use
| $5,000-$15,000 cargo/kid carrier bikes as replacements
| for their cars, which is cool. But I do worry about theft
| of those increasing. Right now I rarely hear of it, but
| it seems likely to increase. Even the motors and
| batteries in them cost thousands alone.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| > think of cheap commuter bikes as public property.
|
| Didn't Amsterdam try that with 'white bikes' in the
| 1970s?
| stevesimmons wrote:
| > The Netherlands famously has more bicycle thefts per
| year than citizens.
|
| No, it definitely does not!
|
| 750k bike thefts for 17.7m people. So roughly one per 25
| people...
|
| It famously has more bicycles than people!
| themaninthedark wrote:
| Of course they have more bicycles than people, the bikes
| keep getting stolen!
| eightnoneone wrote:
| The quality of locks has always been measured in time.
| Terr_ wrote:
| When you get down to it, most security measures are
| ultimately based around creating enough _delay_ that
| someone can respond with violence.
|
| P.S.: Trying to think of the rare examples that _don 't_
| qualify, and so far:
|
| 1. Direct violent response, e.g. booby-traps.
|
| 2. Denial by destroying whatever the attacker wanted, or
| delaying them enough that time renders it valueless.
|
| 3. Denial by making the effort unprofitable, even with no
| hard time limits.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Once my bicycle was such a piece of crap that someone stole
| the lock and left the bike.
| knodi123 wrote:
| lol, sounds like a Rodney Dangerfield gag
| XorNot wrote:
| The battery powered angle grinder was the end of useful bike
| locks AFAIK.
| knodi123 wrote:
| Pfft. I had a medium-grade bike lock in college, and I once
| accidentally stole a bike because somebody with the same
| color/model/lock parked in front of the same building as
| me. My key was a bit stiff and I kind of had to force it,
| but it worked fine. I just remember thinking "why does this
| seat feel different?" Took me a couple of days to figure it
| out. I put it back- sure hope the original owner came and
| looked again after his initial disappointment that day.
| hathawsh wrote:
| There are bike locks that do mostly defeat angle grinders.
| They are not cheap, of course.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpVOTEOMRuE
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Evolution-Integrated-
| Chain...
| asddubs wrote:
| I don't know why you would link a video instead of saying
| the sentence "chain locks are hard to cut with an angle
| grinder because the chains are hard to hold steady"
| hathawsh wrote:
| I forgot to add that clarification, thanks.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Ref: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aBxyaFf379g&t=1m4s
|
| Tl;dr if your lock doesn't double-lock (both sides) and
| have a cut-resistant core, it's only stopping people who
| can't afford a Ryobi angle grinder
| knodi123 wrote:
| > There are already so many ways to defeat locks, that locks
| are just there to keep honest people honest and to slow down
| criminals.
|
| If you live at a lower end apartment complex, you might be
| shocked at how many doors your key will unlock, if you apply
| a light turning pressure and thrust the key in and out a few
| times.
|
| I know I was. But it came in handy when one of my xmas gifts
| had been delivered to the front office, and I needed to pick
| it up after hours in order to make a redeye flight the next
| morning. I just used my own room key to open the office
| (setting off the alarm!), grabbed the package with my name on
| it, and closed and relocked the door and was gone before
| anyone investigated.
| asddubs wrote:
| sounds like you basically just used your key as a bump key
| Terr_ wrote:
| > There are already so many ways to defeat locks, that locks
| are just there to keep honest people honest and to slow down
| criminals.
|
| Yeah, I'm currently waiting on parts to replace my door
| handle. As far as I can tell, the would-be thieves snapped
| off the handle to make an opening, and used that to cut/snap
| the rear part of the lock (which normally can't turn because
| of the lock cylinder) and then substituted in a screwdriver
| to convince the car that the lock had turned.
|
| Thankfully--and puzzlingly--they were unprepared for the
| steering-wheel lock and only managed to mangle and bend it
| (probably with a small bolt-cutter) before they gave up or
| were spooked off.
|
| 'Course, after that they would have still been unable to
| start the car for other reasons, but it still saved me the
| cost of fixing a torn-up ignition.
| dtgriscom wrote:
| > 100 micrometers thick
|
| 1/10 of a millimeter. Thick foil (perhaps 4x generic Al
| foil).
| dtgriscom wrote:
| I divide locking systems into three classes:
|
| 1. Can be opened without tools
|
| 2. Can be opened with generic tools (e.g. hammer, hacksaw)
|
| 3. Can be opened with specialized tools (e.g. lock picks,
| liquid nitrogen)
| RecycledEle wrote:
| The same can be said of BB guns that can put out eyes, lock
| picks that can open locked doors, and bolt cutters than can
| break chains.
|
| More powerful tools are a good thing.
| aqme28 wrote:
| A BB gun has to be used very intentionally to hurt your eyes.
| A high-powered laser could blind you because your neighbor is
| doing some work on his shed and you caught a reflection
| bingbingbing777 wrote:
| Have you not heard of stray bullets, crossfire etc?
| ben_w wrote:
| BB gun -- that's as in "ball bearing" -- also known as
| "airsoft".
|
| In this example, crossfire would require someone to walk
| into an airsoft combat area without any eye protection
| and for someone in that game to not realise and shoot
| them anyway. In the face.
|
| Stray BB bullets don't go very far. They're not rifled,
| and they have fairly low muzzle energy compared to real
| weapons -- I've shot myself with one at zero range, and
| even on bare skin it stings rather than penetrates.
| marky1991 wrote:
| A bb gun and an airsoft gun are very different things to
| me. A bb gun shoots metal balls and airsoft shoots
| plastic. I would not want to be hit by a bb gun, but an
| airsoft gun is no big deal (though the snipers can
| definitely hurt).
| jjk166 wrote:
| Diffuse reflection is only dangerous up to a few feet away.
| You're neighbor would have to be deliberately aiming the
| beam at your eye to blind you assuming you're not in the
| shed with them.
| sungho_ wrote:
| What about nuclear weapons, which have become so accessible
| that even small organizations can have them?
| ben_w wrote:
| When small organisations get nuclear explosives, the only
| two safe options are:
|
| 1. Spending your life in a nuclear bunker and only
| interacting via the internet -- including pure VR and/or
| remote controlled robot bodies.
|
| 2. Let your government poke around everywhere to make sure
| nobody is making (or importing) their own nukes, regardless
| of what anyone says about the 2nd amendment.
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _The same can be said of BB guns that can put out eyes_
|
| I know! these are the same people who took mostly harmless
| Jarts off the market!
|
| https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/31176/how-one-dad-got-
| la...
| llm_trw wrote:
| Everyone can already afford a stick welder. We don't need
| goggles when we leave the house.
| aqme28 wrote:
| Those can't blind you from a distance though. Not nearly the
| same risk
| llm_trw wrote:
| They absolutely can. Anyone around them for long enough has
| dead spots in their eyes.
| aqme28 wrote:
| I mean like a bystander walking by a construction site
| who just happens to catch a bad reflection for a fraction
| of a second
| GuB-42 wrote:
| Not at all the same risk profile. Arc welding is just a
| really bright UV light, and without appropriate
| protection, it will cause what is essentially a sunburn
| on the surface of the eye. It is painful, but it usually
| heals in a couple of days. It shouldn't significantly
| damage the retina.
|
| Laser light is different: a laser is effectively a point
| light source, and it will focus inside the eye to a
| single point with enough brightness to cause a burn. It
| can cause a permanent blind spot, and damage may happen
| faster and be less noticeable at first.
| dghughes wrote:
| The headlights of 2024 Ford F150 can blind me from a
| distance.
| jfoutz wrote:
| yes, but not permanently. You can certainly get dazzled
| by bright headlights, I can anyway.
|
| but laser light, like staring into the sun, will destroy
| the delicate structure of your retina, and it doesn't
| grow back.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| "The average car-buyer or metalworker" can already afford a $30
| cordless angle grinder:
|
| https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/grinders/angle-gri...
|
| (Cost plus a $30-$80 battery, of course, but after you pick
| your color, you've already got batteries). Your locks are far
| more protected by the social contract that would compel a
| stranger to stop someone who was cutting a bike lock with an
| angle grinder, and would cause a thief to fear arrest,
| prosecution, and jail time, than by actual physical security.
|
| If you want a laser, you can already get a 100W CO2 laser tube
| for $500:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Cloudray-W2-Dia-80mm-Engraver/dp/B08G...
|
| It won't do a great job of cutting steel - it will engrave it,
| but to cut steel you'd need O2 assist gas and a lot more power.
| It will trivially cut ABS, foam, fabric, wood veneer/thin
| plywood, cardstock, etc. if attached to a pair of mirrors on an
| XY stage such as might be borrowed/scaled up from a 3D printer.
| And, of course, it will trivially scar corneas with the
| invisible danger of its 10,600 nm laser light. Good news,
| though - ordinary polycarbonate safety glasses are opaque to
| the extreme IR light.
|
| Laser safety is serious business, but highly-collimated,
| tightly-focused laser light is not likely to be produced by a
| cheap, portable laser. The above tube produces a 100W beam with
| a diameter of about 8mm. I wouldn't put my eyeball in the path,
| but a safety shutter can sit in the beam indefinitely and
| merely get warm. You melt steel by focusing a this 8mm beam
| down to a infinitesimally tiny spot, and beyond the focal
| length of your optics it diffuses to something no more
| dangerous than the source 8mm beam, and beyond that it's no
| more dangerous than an average lightbulb - albeit one that you
| have no aversion response/blink reflex to. I always wear my
| goggles near our cutting lasers, but I know lots of guys who
| have worked around 20W-20,000W CO2 lasers their entire lives
| and they're pretty cavalier with regards to laser safety.
|
| Finally, a welding mask is a neutral-density filter, suitable
| for the (very approximately) black-body radiation produced by a
| welder, and is much less effective than laser safety goggles at
| blocking high-intensity light of a very specific color.
| Depending on the sensor, an auto-darkening mask might not even
| trigger when exposed to a laser! You'd want a set of 940nm
| laser safety goggles for this, which is far more exotic and
| dangerous than a 10um CO2 laser.
| c22 wrote:
| Don't cut vinyl with your laser, it will produce chlorine gas
| which will not be good for you to breathe and will corrode
| your equipment. Use a dragknife cutter instead.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| It does work, and I've got great filtration and
| ventilation, but yeah, probably not a good idea. Edited.
| Same caution is true of PVC, which is a shame because it's
| really convenient for making the aforementioned ventilation
| systems!
| stavros wrote:
| A question I've always had: How do I know if my glasses
| protect against a particular laser? I'm talking about the
| ones in hobby CNC machines, laser hair removal places, etc,
| not high-powered industrial ones, where there's likely a high
| degree of know-how on safety already?
| mecsred wrote:
| Best bet is to buy two pairs and stick one in the path of
| the beam with a sensor or target behind it. Otherwise
| you're looking up charts for the materials spectral
| absorption in your lasers emission band
| stavros wrote:
| But even if the target isn't cut, that doesn't mean I
| won't get eye damage, does it? Or do glasses protect even
| if they're only a bit opaque to the target wavelength?
| mecsred wrote:
| First of all, I take no responsibility for your safety,
| I'm just some person on a forum.
|
| That being said, it's all a function of how much light
| enters your eye. You can look up the exposure limits of
| the human retina for different frequencies of light to
| get an idea how little is actually required to damage
| your eye. The target or sensor should be sensitive enough
| to react to that much incident light. Just putting
| something behind the glasses and have it not get cut is
| definitely not enough to indicate no eye damage.
| vonzepp wrote:
| Proper laser goggles come with ratings. Dependent on the
| laser wavelength, beamsize, energy/power and pulse
| duration. Most goggle suppliers will tell you what you need
| if you supply the laser specs.
| gpderetta wrote:
| "Use goggles to protect remaining eye"
| WillAdams wrote:
| A long while ago, I was told that the flight deck crew on
| Air Force One would wear eyepatches during nuclear drills,
| so that if (hopefully temporarily) blinded by an airborne
| nuke, would be able to continue flying after switching the
| eyepatch to the other eye.
| analog31 wrote:
| My bike is protected by Anti-Theft Aesthetics (tm).
| knodi123 wrote:
| ha, we used to call that the "P.O.S. theft deterrent system"
| rbanffy wrote:
| An Apple-specific magazine in Brazil made a contest to come
| up with stickers for the back of the first iPhones. My entry
| was also an anti-theft device, with the image of a Microsoft
| Zune.
| sschueller wrote:
| Because of this Switzerland has outlawed portable laser
| pointers higher than the lowest class.
|
| Anything more powerful than a low end projector pointer is now
| classified as a weapon and regulated as such.
|
| This at least keeps these units out of the hands of the general
| public and those that can't use them responsibly.
|
| It sucks for those of us who used them responsibly just like we
| did with RC aircraft before drones became an item on a discount
| shelve. However at least I know that if I go to a large event
| or even a demo I won't be permanently blinded by some idiot.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| Same in Norway, in 2015. Anything above 1mW is forbidden in
| practice although the law leaves the actual limit and
| exceptions to the regulating authority.
| Domenic_S wrote:
| What keeps someone from driving across the border to acquire
| one, or ordering on ebay, or getting one at a sketchy shop?
| "Some idiot" is exactly the kind of person that would ignore
| the law.
|
| I mean it seems like a fine law, but _it 's a law so now I
| never have to think about it again_ seems strange to me.
| Running stop signs is outlawed but I still look before I
| cross the street.
| sschueller wrote:
| It doesn't stop anyone. But packages are randomly checked
| and so are cars going over the border.
|
| Same goes for guns. Someone can aquire one illegally but
| fines are high and there is no impulsive purchase at the
| next Kiosk so circulation is low and you aren't going to
| get "lasered" by 20+ green lasers at some event.
| sorokod wrote:
| A hard kill APS might help.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system
| rhelz wrote:
| I hate to tell you this, but you can already buy infrared
| lasers off of eBay which have completely invisible beams which
| can blind yo.
| pants2 wrote:
| This is something that makes me nervous any time I see
| YouTube videos about these sorts of lasers. They can blind
| someone nearly instantly, silently, and invisibly from a
| quarter mile away. That's terrifying.
| ordu wrote:
| _> A society in which "the average car-buyer" has a tiny
| portable steel-melting laser is a society where I'm wearing
| welding goggles every time I leave the house._
|
| VR-headset will be better, because it can attune brightness and
| contrast so you can see even at dusk.
| rixthefox wrote:
| I can't help but think, was this part of Tesla's famed "death
| ray"?
| davidwritesbugs wrote:
| Looking forward to this used in car headlights, dazzle's gonna be
| awesome.
| boringg wrote:
| How about for people who are tailing hard -- just pop them in
| the rear view :S
| dtx1 wrote:
| Neat! That looks like it's weithin an order of magnitude or two
| of becoming a real ray gun. I hope I can snatch up a few when
| they hit the consumer market before imdiatly getting banned.
| anonimonkey wrote:
| Can you use this for 3d printin? Like in an array of lasers where
| every laser is a pixel and you get 3d by shifting a powder layer.
|
| Could this architecture be faster then current 3d printers?
| WillAdams wrote:
| Yes, there are such printers in existence already --- they
| either use a laser to melt a layer of metal powder, or spray a
| binding agent on a layer of plastic powder --- for the latter
| it's possible to include a colouring agent and get full-colour
| 3D plastic prints.
|
| Search term is "Laser powder bed fusion" (as opposed to the
| trademark: "Direct Metal Laser Sintering" as was pointed out
| below)
|
| https://www.3dsourced.com/guides/direct-metal-laser-sinterin...
| metal_am wrote:
| Laser powder bed fusion (L-PBF) is the more standardized
| term. DMLS was a trademark.
| Lichtso wrote:
| Photopolymer Resin based printing has been around for a while
| now. Not sure how much the light source matters / can improve
| the speed though.
| Wildgoose wrote:
| Combine these with hydrogen-boron (aneutronic) fusion and we may
| be able to generate electricity directly without needing a
| thermal plant. Even though we are years away it still shows a
| possible path forwards. Here's hoping!
| tim333 wrote:
| Wikipedia says "... a petawatt-scale laser pulse could launch
| an 'avalanche' fusion reaction." Quite a lot of zeros to add on
| to the power.
|
| The article says they are planning 10kW or 10^4W and a petawatt
| is 10^15W so 11 zeros by my calculation. Could be a while. I
| think Helion, who are now talking about turning on their fusion
| to electricity gizmo this summer, may get there first.
| pfdietz wrote:
| I wonder if the surface emitting nature of these will make it
| easier to phase lock multiple chips. This could be very useful
| for large apertures and power beaming over long distances.
|
| One application for high efficiency large aperture lasers is
| powering long distance aircraft, either by beaming from ground
| stations along the way or from laser stations in space. The
| ability to forego fuel entirely would be quite attractive,
| allowing potentially unlimited range.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> make it easier to phase lock multiple chips
|
| Another use for that is holography. If you can make a wafer-
| scale array of phase locked emitters overlayed with the ability
| to either attenuate or phase-shift each one, it becomes a nice
| (one color) holographic display. I'm assuming high divergence
| from each one.
| rbanffy wrote:
| Someone should quickly build a light source from multiple
| phase-locked lasers and call it a "phaser".
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Society 5.0, would see made-on-demand goods_
|
| Fans of _The Peripheral_ , I see.
|
| All kidding aside, the sticking point for this, as it already is
| for high-power LED lighting, is cooling.
|
| It still takes a fairly significant bit of hardware to cool
| stuff.
| Glyptodon wrote:
| Will this mean affordable home laser cutters can finally cut
| metal in addition to things like wood, leather, and plastic?
| sylware wrote:
| This article smells so much the "if you want the eternal life,
| give me more money right now".
| rhelz wrote:
| All the handwringing about how horrible bad things will happen
| when these lasers are out there.....can we please just have a
| nice, happy, optimistic article about the great future which
| awaits us??
| hn72774 wrote:
| Things like this make me think Moore's law still has a lot of
| runaway beyond transistor density and raw computing power.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| Why would a welding laser have anything to do with moore's law?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The article confuses things by comparing PCSELs to edge-emitting
| lasers, when it appears to be a new refinement on VCSELs, which
| have been generating large power densities since around the turn
| of the century.
| kouru225 wrote:
| Looks like a good tattoo
| elzbardico wrote:
| It looks to me like we are on the cusp of the laser handguns era
| w10-1 wrote:
| This reminds me of the latest ASML machines coordinating UV laser
| (angle) and diffraction grating to achieve clean small 2D
| patterns.
|
| I'm curious how hard it is to model light interactions on this
| scale. What does it take for the authors to come up with modeling
| solutions for their scaling problems? Is this something one PhD
| in light physics could do, or do companies and people develop
| expertise in teams over decades?
|
| It seems like ASML only requires the solution to one wave
| diffraction interaction (with the mask), but modeling the
| standing wave and higher-order modes would require much more
| mathematics. Is it even possible if the solutions for each
| interaction are probabilistic?
|
| Also, are solutions in practice mostly bounded by the kinds of
| semiconductor features (holes) they can build?
| swader999 wrote:
| Why didn't they just call them light sabers? Such a missed
| opportunity.
| varispeed wrote:
| Does it mean someone can take such laser and then go slice people
| in half?
|
| There is focus on the industry, but surely this should be
| regulated as it seems to be of dual use.
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