[HN Gopher] Linux fu: getting started with systemd
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       Linux fu: getting started with systemd
        
       Author : drpixie
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-04-14 10:43 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hackaday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.com)
        
       | drpixie wrote:
       | > Like many long-time Unix users, I'm not a big fan of systemd.
       | Then again, I'm also waiting for the whole "windows, icon, mouse,
       | pointer" fad to die down.
       | 
       | I like a writer with perspective :)
        
         | askvictor wrote:
         | I'm not against systemd, it's just that the muscle memory takes
         | a _long_ time to change, particularly for things that you don't
         | do frequently.
        
       | lakomen wrote:
       | Oh boy. I'm currently battling with Kubernetes, and I mean it.
       | Compared to k8s systemd is simple and easy. I can wholeheartedly
       | say I hate k8s and its guts. Everything is so overly complicated.
       | A bazillion configurations for every single little detail. And
       | she's a touchy little princess. Hard to find help, expensive
       | courses and a not so great documentation site, that kind of
       | explains the components, but then again really doesn't in detail,
       | also no complete configuration reference. And no matter which way
       | to setup you choose, something is always wrong. It's a tool to
       | drive you to expensive public cloud offerings. For the small
       | price of only ~$2600 per month you can have your 5 node k8s
       | cluster on GCP, cheap cheap. Burn money money burn money money
       | burn. Managing and maintaining k8s is a full-time job.
       | 
       | In comparison systemd is well documented and you don't really
       | need to ask people for help. You can easily use the shell, you
       | don't have to battle with wrong nginx configurations that were
       | autogenerated, because you wrote them and you know what you're
       | doing.
       | 
       | Fleet was cool, but Redhat bought CoreOS and killed fleet, can't
       | have a simple effective system, it has to be complex and
       | enterprise so you can sell services and tutelage. Fucking IT
       | people.
        
         | tonoto wrote:
         | I honestly fail to see in what aspect Kubernetes is poorly
         | documented? It is complex yes, but just about any aspect I've
         | come by is documented. I think that one reason that the
         | documentation at kubernetes.io is kept in a rather short format
         | may be to avoid it to become overwhelming.
        
         | haolez wrote:
         | Fleet's code is still around if the pain of Kubernetes
         | outweighs the benefits. The problem, in this case, is that
         | systemd is not exactly minimalist, and Fleet built on top of
         | it. I've used it in the past and it felt complex as well,
         | especially when debugging problems.
        
         | okasaki wrote:
         | I wrote my own shitty deployment/monitoring GUI that uses just
         | systemd and ssh and a single yaml file:
         | https://github.com/dvolk/sc
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | Kubernetes is great for what it's designed to do.
         | 
         | Many, if not most, companies don't need the things Kubernetes
         | is designed for, though. It's interesting tech and I can see
         | why people are drawn to it, but I feel like some people pick it
         | more because _they_ want to use Kubernetes rather than it
         | solving a real problem a company or organisation is facing.
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | This. As Borg it is a thing to behold but when people think
           | they know 'scale' but don't really, well then it seems very
           | over engineered.
        
         | pharos92 wrote:
         | Yep. Needlessly complicated and completely dev-centric, it
         | looses sight of the goal. Pretty hilarious, as the whole
         | argument for outsourcing infrastructure to developers was to
         | make delivery faster, simpler and easier. What a joke.
        
         | pa7ch wrote:
         | CoreOS switched attention to K8s over fleet fairly early into
         | fleets life span so it never really had the chance to develop
         | into a seriously used tool. Red Hat killed most things CoreOS
         | did after fleet was dead. Etcd lives on and so does Fedora
         | CoreOS. Its not quite the same distribution CoreOS was but
         | takes the same principals and kept some really talented
         | engineers. I wish it got more attention.
        
           | kapilvt wrote:
           | redhat coreos isn't really based on coreos tech at all, its
           | ostree/rpm-tree. the kinvolk folks maintain a coreos distro
           | based on the original tech https://kinvolk.io/coreos-eol
           | https://www.flatcar.org
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-14 23:01 UTC)