[HN Gopher] Obituary for a quiet life (2023)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Obituary for a quiet life (2023)
        
       Author : conanxin
       Score  : 1040 points
       Date   : 2024-04-14 04:24 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bittersoutherner.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bittersoutherner.com)
        
       | happytiger wrote:
       | This is beautiful. Thank you.
       | 
       | I think people don't understand how important just being there
       | for your family actually is. Sometimes it's enough just to be
       | reliable, stand for good and just be present. Sounds like he
       | really knew it.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | A Rick Roderick quote comes to mind;                 "" Now, I
         | hate the movie The Big Chill, let me make that clear, and
         | I hope I can't be sued for hating a movie, I hate The Big
         | Chill,          because it's about members of my generation,
         | all of whom have          become swine. The only person in the
         | movie I like is dead when          the movie starts, and they
         | are having his funeral, and the old          preacher says
         | something quite profound. He asks the crowd of          young
         | yuppies, he goes "Isn't our common life together and just
         | being a good man enough to sustain us anymore?" And the answer
         | to          that is 'No, it's not'.  ""
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | I am struggling a bit with this right now. Being a provider in
         | the modern age means less than it used to. It feels like paying
         | all the bills and being reliable isn't valued much.
        
           | all2 wrote:
           | Your feelings are correct. The role of provider and protector
           | has been largely taken over by the state. And fathers are
           | much maligned at this point in most popular media.
        
       | fbdab103 wrote:
       | >He'd stolen a school bus as a teenager and backed it over a
       | teacher's car.
       | 
       | "Boys will be boys" definitely got a lot more mileage than I had
       | previously thought.
        
         | qup wrote:
         | Wasn't said whether he was caught at it
        
       | cryptozeus wrote:
       | A month before he passed, faded and worn down to a wheelchair,
       | his head still popped up when Grandma walked into the kitchen:
       | "Hey thar, pretty girl."
       | 
       | <B
        
       | Aloha wrote:
       | Being content is like a drug.
       | 
       | The fire reduces, but does go out, you feel warmth in the
       | familiar rather than the new, and you find yourself beset,
       | wondering whatever you did to deserve this joy.
       | 
       | I hope to sone day some can say the same about me.
        
         | monero-xmr wrote:
         | Being content is not about lack of goals or striving. It's
         | about enjoying the journey, appreciating what you have, being
         | OK psychologically even if your grand plans don't come to
         | fruition.
         | 
         | I am always working towards multiple goals in parallel, from
         | short to long to ultra long term. But the cadence of regular
         | life - the routines we do daily and weekly and yearly - are the
         | things that sustain existence. My children, wife, extended
         | family, friends, acquaintances, the holidays, the laughs and
         | stories and memories. I like exercising, I like coffee, I like
         | learning. I can make all the money in the world but the real
         | mass of life is not changed, and money is unnecessary to live a
         | fulfilling life.
        
           | Aloha wrote:
           | For me at least, it means I'm striving a little less hard, I
           | think is the best way to put it.
           | 
           | I'm still searching for good things, and the next thing, but
           | I'm also enjoying today for today.
        
         | davideous wrote:
         | The Bible speaks about this:
         | 
         | "But godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought
         | nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the
         | world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be
         | content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation,
         | into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that
         | plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money
         | is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving
         | that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced
         | themselves with many pangs." -- 1 Timothy 6:6-10 ESV
        
           | ako wrote:
           | Please don't do this, there are many people and stories that
           | speak to this. Now it looks like you're claiming this for one
           | particular religion, when it's completely unrelated to
           | religion.
        
             | zilti wrote:
             | You should work on your very warped perception.
        
             | pbourke wrote:
             | This text sits at the wellspring of Western culture, such
             | as it is. You don't need to accept any metaphysical claims
             | that it makes in order to appreciate its wisdom.
        
             | acidioxide wrote:
             | There is nothing wrong with drawing on the values that a
             | text carries without necessarily agreeing with it in its
             | entirety. This quote captures the point of the post above
             | quite well.
        
             | ossyrial wrote:
             | He is sharing a quote from a religious book, it makes sense
             | to cite it, no? If they quoted the Qur'an, a Buddhist
             | Sutra, a piece by Kahlil Gibran, or a quote by Adam Smith,
             | I would all expect a citation to be honest.
             | 
             | A few comments around we see a quote by Rick Roderick, and
             | one by the Beatles. I don't see why this is fundamentally
             | different and deserves critique.
        
               | vouwfietsman wrote:
               | Quoting a religious/ideologist book is inherently
               | different to quoting an individual author or a non-
               | religious/spiritual text, because the act of quoting
               | itself is part of a tradition of (in this case
               | evangelical) propagation of the religion/ideology.
               | 
               | We can pretend to see contemporary bible-quoting as a
               | secular thing, but in these cases history matters.
               | 
               | For instance, in the above quote in the part "It is
               | through this craving that some have wandered away from
               | the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." it is
               | obvious that the quoted passage goes beyond a non-
               | religious moral text and veers into religious moral
               | judgement.
               | 
               | Furthermore, quoting a passage does not isolate you from
               | the whole of the work, as you would probably take offense
               | to me quoting WWII dictators even if the quote makes
               | sense for the topic in isolation.
               | 
               | What I'm saying is all quite obvious and on the nose
               | behavior by religious (or ideologist) people, who
               | absolutely view quoting as a religious/ideologist act as
               | described above.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | > as you would probably take offense to me quoting WWII
               | dictators even if the quote makes sense for the topic in
               | isolation.
               | 
               | Of course I wouldn't take offense to that. I will accept
               | wisdom wherever it is to be found, even if it's from
               | Hitler himself. I care about the merit of ideas, not the
               | merits of their sources.
        
               | all2 wrote:
               | I'm confused at what you are trying to say. As far as I
               | can tell, it appears you are saying something like "don't
               | quote religious texts in a way that makes them look like
               | they have any claim on moral authority". And it appears
               | to me that you are saying "moral authority", in this
               | case, is a-religious and should not be related to any
               | particular religion.
               | 
               | Am I getting this right?
        
             | rramadass wrote:
             | Your comment is downright petty and silly.
             | 
             | Wisdom/Insight/Life Advice wherever it comes from is always
             | valuable. It is up to _you_ to tease out the kernel of
             | knowledge from the chaff of religiosity.
             | 
             | I am no Christian, but i found Robert Alter's _The Wisdom
             | Books: Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes_ quite interesting
             | and would advice you to a study of the same.
        
               | mistermann wrote:
               | > Your comment is downright petty and silly.
               | 
               | And contains some irony.
        
           | GeoAtreides wrote:
           | Here is the King James version, which I find it much more
           | beautiful (from a literary point of view):
           | 
           | But godliness with contentment is great gain.
           | 
           | For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
           | can carry nothing out.
           | 
           | And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
           | 
           | But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
           | and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in
           | destruction and perdition.
           | 
           | For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while
           | some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and
           | pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
        
             | derriz wrote:
             | Maybe but it makes much less sense to me. The meaning of
             | "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" is
             | very different to "the love of money is the root of all
             | evil". The former seems like a reasonable claim. The latter
             | is surely untrue? I know of lots of evil acts NOT motivated
             | by money or the love of money.
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | If you're looking for clear, unambiguous moral guidance,
               | then sure, you have a point. For me it's more about how
               | it sounds, the poetry of it all, and less about guiding
               | my life, my spiritual life or my morality.
        
               | all2 wrote:
               | I find these two things to be inextricably bound together
               | in my own life.
        
               | davideous wrote:
               | Here are a few key paragraphs from a sermon that has the
               | most compelling explanation of that sentence that I've
               | heard:
               | 
               | > When Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:10, "The love of money is
               | the root of all evils," what did he mean? He didn't mean
               | that there's a connection between every sinful attitude
               | and money -- that money is always in your mind when you
               | sin. I think he meant that all the evils in the world
               | come from a certain kind of heart, namely, the kind of
               | heart that loves money.
               | 
               | > Now what does it mean to love money? It doesn't mean to
               | admire the green paper or the brown coins. To know what
               | it means to love money, you have to ask: What is money? I
               | would answer that question like this: Money is simply a
               | symbol that stands for human resources. Money stands for
               | what you can get from man, not from God! ("Everyone who
               | thirsts, come to the waters. He who has no money come buy
               | and eat!" Isaiah 55:1.) Money is the currency of human
               | resources.
               | 
               | > So the heart that loves money is a heart that pins its
               | hopes, and pursues its pleasures, and puts its trust in
               | what human resources can offer. So the love of money is
               | virtually the same as faith in money -- belief (trust,
               | confidence, assurance) that money will meet your needs
               | and make you happy.
               | 
               | > Therefore the love of money, or belief in money, is the
               | flip side of unbelief in the promises of God. Just like
               | Jesus said in Matthew 6:24 -- you cannot serve God and
               | money. You can't trust or believe in God and money.
               | Belief in one is unbelief in the other. A heart that
               | loves money -- banks on money for happiness, believes in
               | money -- is at the same time not banking on the promises
               | of God for happiness.
               | 
               | > So when Paul says that the love of money is the root of
               | all evils, he implies that unbelief in the promises of
               | God is the taproot of every sinful attitude in our heart.
               | 
               | From: https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/battling-
               | unbelief-at-be...
        
               | hellojesus wrote:
               | I get what you're saying, but as someone completely
               | unfamiliar with the Bible but familiar with the common
               | phrase, "Money is the root of all evil", I agree that the
               | GP's original statement is much clearer.
               | 
               | > For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.
               | 
               | This reads not that money itself is the root of evils, or
               | even that a desire for money ensures you live a sinful
               | life.
               | 
               | To me this reads that money, as a motivator, can be a
               | catalyst to dip into immoral practice. If someone wants
               | riches but cares not about how they acquire it, they may
               | steal, they may start wars, they may con others, etc. But
               | someone who uses their desire of money as a catalyst for
               | bringing world change via a new product, service,
               | knowledge, is well found in their desires and
               | implementation, as they are making the world better while
               | achieving their goals.
               | 
               | The contrast in translations completely alters the
               | takeaway for me.
        
               | gen220 wrote:
               | > But someone who uses their desire of money as a
               | catalyst for bringing world change via a new product,
               | service, knowledge, is well found in their desires and
               | implementation, as they are making the world better while
               | achieving their goals.
               | 
               | For what it's worth - and I think it is a worthwhile
               | thing to note - I do not believe that Jesus would condone
               | this.
               | 
               | To Christ, the root of "well-founded" behavior is the
               | golden rule - treat others as you would want yourself to
               | be treated. This comes from the Sermon on the Mount.
               | 
               | Capturing value (a requirement to satisfy the desire for
               | money) from exchange with your customers is not how you
               | would want to be treated, as a customer. If you become
               | wealthy from this exchange, you are violating the Golden
               | Rule.
               | 
               | This sentiment is corroborated elsewhere, with another a
               | famous saying of his that's often "explained away" but
               | should probably be taken seriously.
               | 
               | > It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
               | needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
               | 
               | Martin Luther (of Lutheranism) has some interesting
               | writings/interpretations on this subject [1], if you're
               | interested.
               | 
               | [0]: https://biblehub.com/mark/10-25.htm, the larger
               | story has more interesting context
               | https://biblehub.com/bsb/mark/10.htm#17.
               | 
               | [1]: https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?art
               | icle=501...
               | 
               | Edit just to make it clear in a TLDR; the severity of the
               | "money is the root of all evil" translation is warranted.
               | I'd interpret the "all kinds of evil" translation as
               | "every kind of evil", rather than "many kinds of evil"
               | (which is how we colloquially interpret 'all kinds' in
               | contemporary english).
        
               | jwoq9118 wrote:
               | I am giddy seeing a link to Desiring God on HN. John
               | Piper, good stuff.
        
               | davideous wrote:
               | HN and Desiring God are my two favorite websites.
        
             | pxmpxm wrote:
             | Far more overwrought prose in my opinio; like a Baroque
             | cheateu, all the beauty is lost in the noise of the
             | embellishments.
        
       | grecht wrote:
       | Very moving. Often, this is called a "quiet, simple life". I like
       | that this obituary does not do that. Being there for your family,
       | acting in accordance with your values and standing up for
       | yourself, being content with what you have - this is not "simple"
       | at all. Someone to look up to.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | What you describe is simple, especially in a wealthy nation
         | during peace. What doesn't sound so simple was leading union
         | politics or rapidly rising through the ranks while deployed
         | abroad. This person was certainly not quiet.
        
           | gatinsama wrote:
           | Simple, not easy
        
             | stemlord wrote:
             | Above items seem to be neither, and it bothers me because
             | it betrays the thesis by insinuating that a simple life can
             | only be had _after_ having a complicated one. True or not,
             | one has to wonder if this too becomes another act of
             | propaganda of erasure against the population among us who
             | truly do live quietly-- in other words, loud people playing
             | quiet people on tv.
        
             | plokiju wrote:
             | what is a complex life to you?
        
       | dmje wrote:
       | Lovely piece, thanks for posting
        
       | dzink wrote:
       | He is not wrong.
       | 
       | "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two
       | impostors just the same" - R. Kipling
       | 
       | Media riles up those who have been limited or deprived by
       | circumstances. It waves flags and triggers emotions and creates
       | envy and conjures social ladders to political influence, or
       | financial gains, or popularity and public attention, or peaks of
       | history. The reality though is that those apply to the people who
       | don't know better - the new grads, the hungry and ambitious, the
       | midlife-crisis sufferers, the naive who haven't encountered bad
       | people or circumstances. If you've seen a lot or you know evil,
       | you don't need a public life where you may attract it. When you
       | know what you have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to
       | protect it. People value privacy when they have something to
       | lose. If you know what you want to do and can do it without
       | attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with
       | collateral damage from unpredictable attention.
       | 
       | The media today is becoming incredibly propaganda filled and
       | charged. This is a highly combustible environment. Big
       | geopolitical risks are coming and publicity risks making you a
       | target.
       | 
       | When low interest rates paid for VC-subsidized press the world
       | was filled with startup success stories and drums up for startups
       | and their potential gains. That meant many promising
       | entrepreneurs took money at unsustainable expected ROI and lost
       | years of their life working for a promise. Another word for that
       | is lottery. When the dust settled having a quiet business and
       | chugging along profitably proved to be like the little mice who
       | survived underground after the asteroid hit.
       | 
       | If you are a cat who just caught a mouse, would you go to a hill
       | to advertise to all local predators that you are about to enjoy
       | fresh meat?
        
         | p1esk wrote:
         | I don't know, try to explain your point of view to people like
         | Trump or Musk.
        
           | forgetfreeman wrote:
           | It'd be easier to explain Shakespeare to a fish. Sociopaths
           | aren't generally much for outside counsel.
        
           | kunley wrote:
           | But what for?
           | 
           | People like them are not a point of reference to relate
           | everything, you know
        
           | flakeoil wrote:
           | Maybe the world would have been a better and friendlier place
           | if the two people you mentioned, and others like them, had an
           | attitude a bit more muted and humble.
        
             | all2 wrote:
             | If their attitude had been either, they would not have
             | become what they have become. Humble men do not, by and
             | large, take the throne or become captains of industry.
        
           | dzink wrote:
           | The world has many more people like them than you think. The
           | reason for that is the media's propensity to raise people on
           | pedestal over the smallest things and crash and burn that
           | made-up image. Some people find new tools in that kind of
           | experience. Some people have learned how to raise anyone by
           | crafting a narrative for them with money. And some people
           | become addicted to it and the attention they never got as a
           | child.
        
         | wuj wrote:
         | > If you know what you want to do and can do it without
         | attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with
         | collateral damage from unpredictable attention.
         | 
         | To achieve this state where one can operative effectively
         | without external validation often requires them to initially
         | engage with the public sphere. This exposure is important to
         | getting opportunities, especially when starting out with no
         | resources. The purpose of working is to be able to transcend
         | this phase and do more autonomous and focused work...
        
         | TimedToasts wrote:
         | > If you've seen a lot or you know evil, you don't need a
         | public life where you may attract it. When you know what you
         | have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to protect it.
         | People value privacy when they have something to lose.
         | 
         | That's a wonderful way of framing it. No one is intent on
         | violating my privacy to give me anything, only to take.
        
       | epicureanideal wrote:
       | " after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride, Grace, snapped
       | the photo outside their first house."
       | 
       | Driving a laundry truck.. first house..
       | 
       | Life was so much better a few decades ago.
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | But then, he also had to serve in war. Medical care was not
         | that advanced, you couldn't read about any niche topic you want
         | online. Easy to see things through rose tinted glasses.
        
           | jimnotgym wrote:
           | He had to serve in Germany _during_ the Korean war. Still he
           | got called up and posted away from his home, so you still
           | have a point. I think it was people born in 1950 that had it
           | easier, especially in the UK, since we didn 't go to Vietnam.
        
             | MenhirMike wrote:
             | In the US, the people that were born in the 1950s got to
             | spend their teenage years not knowing if the Soviet Union
             | is going to start World War III (the Cuban Missile Crisis
             | in 1962 was definitely a forming event for many teenage
             | minds), then got to go through the 70s with an energy
             | crisis and the potential draft to Vietnam, and then another
             | energy crisis, and then got to experience the Chernobyl
             | disaster in the 80s, wondering if they should re-watch
             | "Duck and cover" and wonder why that hole in the ozone
             | layer gets bigger and bigger.
             | 
             | Every generation has its ups and downs. For my generation,
             | I have to deal with sky-high real estate prices, but I also
             | have access to an unprecedented amount of free
             | entertainment, free knowledge, the cheap supercomputer in
             | my pocket allows me to stay in touch with anyone that I
             | want, and when I go to the doctor, I probably won't see
             | people in iron lungs anymore. I can travel to anywhere in
             | the world for ridiculously low prices, and if I don't speak
             | the language, a live translation app will do the work for
             | me.
             | 
             | No, it's not all sunshine and roses, and people are right
             | to call out issues with the current state of the world
             | because things are NOT alright. But it's not like things
             | were sunshine and roses for our grandparents generation
             | either.
        
               | tossandthrow wrote:
               | the point is that what you see as the roses and sunshine
               | of your generation is increasingly seen as the "missile
               | crisis" of our generation.
               | 
               | on top of that you have skyrocketing real estate prices.
        
               | skulk wrote:
               | > I also have access to an unprecedented amount of free
               | entertainment, free knowledge, the cheap supercomputer in
               | my pocket allows me to stay in touch with anyone that I
               | want, and when I go to the doctor, I probably won't see
               | people in iron lungs anymore. I can travel to anywhere in
               | the world for ridiculously low prices, and if I don't
               | speak the language, a live translation app will do the
               | work for me.
               | 
               | All built on a global underclass that will never
               | experience these things. All built on processes with
               | unsustainable emissions that will cause horrible
               | calamities in the future (and even now). This isn't good.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | I wonder how many people would happily trade access to the
           | web for a world where a laundry truck driver can afford a
           | house. I imagine it's quite a lot.
        
             | TimTheTinker wrote:
             | I certainly would. And I'm on my second house.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | I think the more interesting question would be, who is
             | willing to trade peace for that? I think that it would be
             | far harder to accept being shot at on the warfront than a
             | world with no Internet.
        
           | navane wrote:
           | He wasn't serving in war, he was deployed in Germany in 49.
        
             | dewey wrote:
             | True, I misremembered that, but it's also not the main
             | point.
        
           | fennecbutt wrote:
           | That's besides the point. Their dialogue is about how for all
           | our efforts, the rich have only gotten richer and future
           | generations are left in the dirt.
           | 
           | If medical care and peacetime and technology has progressed
           | so much, why hasn't general living circumstances and wealth
           | equity?
        
             | dewey wrote:
             | General living circumstances have improved a lot for a lot
             | of countries though. Just look at some of the charts on:
             | https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-
             | condit...
        
         | listenallyall wrote:
         | Given the age and location of that house, are you confident it
         | had indoor plumbing?
        
           | romanovcode wrote:
           | I think the land is what's important, not the house
        
         | twojobsoneboss wrote:
         | Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all
         | https://redf.in/tmYs3p
        
           | whycombagator wrote:
           | Only triple the price of what it sold for in 2017 (126k)
        
             | fennecbutt wrote:
             | And worldwide wages have stagnated over time. Older
             | generations only see that we get paid double or triple
             | "what they earned" but ignore that cost of living has
             | exploded many times more than that. Because they're the
             | ones happy to sell houses for a healthy profit.
        
               | all2 wrote:
               | Don't blame the home owners for taking advantage of state
               | sponsored real estate speculation. The only reason they
               | are able to sell at 3x is because someone cut a
               | speculator an easy loan. This is a feature of any system
               | that allows loans against real estate.
        
         | tossandthrow wrote:
         | det think you'd be able to drive a truck and buy your first
         | house today also.
         | 
         | No, that house is not going to be in Palo alto, and it is not
         | going to be newly renovated.
         | 
         | His house probably wasn't either.
         | 
         | i think this sentiment stems from an at core inflated
         | expectation to life.
         | 
         | I know of plenty of out if the city places where housing prices
         | hasn't changed over the previous 15 years and where you
         | probably would be able to find subsistence to pay you mortgage
         | and get food on the table.
        
         | wenebego wrote:
         | Lmao at everyone else coping about how the housing crisis is
         | really not that bad
        
           | briHass wrote:
           | You might have missed that the story is about a man that
           | owned a house in rural North Carolina, where, like many rural
           | areas in the US, it's still possible to purchase houses for
           | 200-300k.
           | 
           | Living in a dense, urban environment close to all the
           | expensive 'luxuries' is exactly the type of life eschewed by
           | the subject of the story.
        
         | vjk800 wrote:
         | Fruitland, North Carolina has population of about 2000.
         | Something tells me you too can buy a house while driving a
         | laundry truck if you're willing to move to Fruitland.
        
           | dgfitz wrote:
           | You're very wrong. Do a search before you pop off in such a
           | self righteous manner.
           | 
           | https://www.redfin.com/city/32644/NC/Fruitland
        
       | tirthvora wrote:
       | Wow! Really moved me. I live in a metro city, and whenever I go
       | back to my village, I envy their lives. It's just them and their
       | families. Small World, but it still has adventures, and most
       | importantly, peace.
       | 
       | A heart-warming Obituary!
        
       | ornornor wrote:
       | Nice read, thank you.
       | 
       | > Ray Harrell after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride,
       | Grace, snapped the photo outside their first house.
       | 
       | Ah the days when you could be a delivery truck driver and buy a
       | house... Not so much for us anymore.
        
         | alfagre wrote:
         | Not in central SF, no. But in the rural midwest you definitely
         | can. Just like that dude.
        
           | woutersf wrote:
           | Yep and they did not have insulation obligations and what
           | not. A house was much simpler back then too (i think).
           | European here so i could be biased.
        
         | twojobsoneboss wrote:
         | Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all
         | https://redf.in/tmYs3p
        
           | fennecbutt wrote:
           | I'm not American but I can do this rough: median salary PC
           | Henderson county 37,457 (2022) after taxes $30,858. Mortgage
           | rates seem to be about 8% for 30y fix atm so that's 36,500
           | deposit with $2017 monthly payment, but at least that's $0
           | fees.
           | 
           | At $2571 in pocket per month it'll take a while to save that
           | deposit when median rent in that location is apparently $1500
           | for an apartment,let alone the fact you'll need a car and all
           | your other bills (medical insurance in America I guess).
           | 
           | Then you'll have $500 left over after paying your mortgage
           | every month. Somehow I don't think that's liveable.
           | 
           | Not everyone can crash with their parents while they save a
           | deposit. Not everyone has a partner that works too. Some
           | people have or want to have children. Not everyone works in
           | tech, but boy am I glad I do...least until the machines take
           | over.
        
         | orthoxerox wrote:
         | You could still buy one if they still built 70m2 houses:
         | 
         | 9m2 kitchen 15m2 sitting room 3 _9m2 bedrooms 2_ 4m2 bathrooms
         | 6m2 mud room 5m2 of various storage
         | 
         | But why buy/build one if mortgages are cheap?
        
       | ttiurani wrote:
       | > All around us are these lives -- heads down and arms open --
       | that ignore the siren call of flashy American individualism, of
       | bright lights and center stage. I'm fine right here is the
       | response from the edge of the room, and that contentment is
       | downright subversive. How could you want only that? the world
       | demands. There's more to have, always more.
       | 
       | Beautiful writing, and I feel this part especially elevates it.
       | 
       | Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and celebrate
       | these people who know when they have enough for a good life. Who
       | can stop craving more fame, wealth and possession, and just
       | appreciate what they have. Because only by doing so, can we leave
       | enough resources for others, near or far, now and in the future,
       | to have the same.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | That part caught my attention as well. There's a danger in the
         | seductive whisper of "you need more". Whether it's material
         | goods, power, fame, or whatever else, pursuing external things
         | like these is a hole which can never be filled. It seems to me
         | that true happiness is to be found inward. If you can learn to
         | find happiness where you are right now, then you can have a
         | good life regardless of your external circumstances.
         | 
         | I had two really powerful insights when I was a teenager. The
         | first was when I got a Christmas gift I really wanted (a
         | walkman iirc), and it struck me that actually having it didn't
         | fulfill me nearly as much as I had thought it would. The other
         | was when my grandpa died, and I would have given anything to
         | have him back (and I still would). These two experiences made
         | me realize that _stuff_ is hollow and unimportant, and what
         | _truly_ matters in this world are people. Being with the people
         | you love is the greatest thing we can have, and unlike material
         | possessions can never be replaced once it 's gone.
         | 
         | I think that a simple life is far underrated. If all I ever do
         | is spend time with my family and friends, and make the world
         | around me just a bit better in some small way, I feel like
         | that's enough.
        
         | alfagre wrote:
         | > Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and
         | celebrate these people who know when they have enough for a
         | good life.
         | 
         | I see where you are coming from, but that's exactly missing the
         | point. The article is about somebody who wouldn't have _wanted_
         | to be celebrated by you. Who just wanted to live his life, out
         | of the spotlight. By elevating him and his live to celebration
         | status, that 's the oppposite of what he would have wanted.
         | Recognize, sure. A nod in passing, then move on.
        
           | jddj wrote:
           | Telling though, isn't it.
           | 
           | The collective addiction to celebrity shows up even in a
           | context like this one.
        
           | ttiurani wrote:
           | Indeed, this is a vexing problem.
           | 
           | Role models influence so much of peoples' behavior, that I
           | fear they are needed to change what is considered success.
           | But the people suited to be role models rarely want to be.
           | 
           | I don't know the answer, but hope some of these kinds of
           | people would allow themselves to be (reluctantly) also
           | celebrated.
        
         | GeoAtreides wrote:
         | > the world demands. There's more to have, always more.
         | 
         | is it really the world? or is it the ad industry? the social
         | media algorithms?
         | 
         | bet if we shutdown the ad industry and accept only sorted by
         | date for social media the world will quiet down tremendously
        
           | zilti wrote:
           | It wasn't really that different in that regard before social
           | media, you know.
        
             | GeoAtreides wrote:
             | The uptick in teenage self-harm and suicides says
             | otherwise.
             | 
             | Of course it was different, people in 1940 and 1950 were
             | not doomscrolling endlessly throughout the day while
             | algorithms enmeshed them in self-contained bubbles and
             | bombard them with personalized ads, no, they were listening
             | to radio, read newspapers, talked in person more. Social
             | media is a new and never seen before phenomenon, with its
             | own advantages and disadvantages.
        
               | mtlguitarist wrote:
               | I think there's a bif citation needed on whether social
               | media influences anxiety and depression in younger
               | people. It's a nice scapegoat, but the world is harder
               | and more competitive than it's ever been. I can't work in
               | a textile mill and become a union president and support a
               | family. The job doesn't exist anymore, and even if it did
               | it wouldn't pay enough to achieve those coveted
               | milestones of a "quiet life."
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | The discussion on the impact of social media rages on:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39983233
               | 
               | Is the world harder? Or we're relentlessly told that's
               | harder? And can we actual tell the difference?
        
               | szundi wrote:
               | There can be other reasons too coinciding in time.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | Nobody is saying that social media hasn't had any effect
               | on the world, just that the human desire for more worldly
               | things wasn't caused by it. The expression "keeping up
               | with the Joneses" far, far predates social media.
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | The difference is that before social media, the Jones
               | were your neighbors -- your immediate, face to face, irl
               | tribe. Social media makes everyone on planet Earth the
               | Jones (more or less). And, let's not forget, there were
               | no algorithms in old times, there were no bubbles created
               | by those algorithms, there was no 24/7 constant scrolling
               | (more or less)... These all matter, they all have an
               | effect on the brain and on the mind.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | I agree that's a difference, I simply don't agree with
               | your original hypothesis. The constant hunger for more
               | and more worldly things isn't going to go away, or even
               | get significantly better, if we erase advertising and
               | social media from the world.
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | If advertising doesn't induce demand, then what does it
               | do?
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | I'm of the firm opinion that advertising is snake oil.
               | But even if you do believe that advertising causes
               | demand, it doesn't follow that we would see a significant
               | decrease in demand if advertising was gone. If
               | advertising hypothetically increases demand by 5%, that's
               | not going to make that much of a difference when it's
               | gone.
        
           | kmarc wrote:
           | Dunno, I don't use social media, neither see ads (adblock),
           | but the older I get, the more I want to explore, learn about
           | history, travel to places.
           | 
           | I agree with the sentiment (social media / ad algorithms
           | influencing the... influenceables), but I have also met
           | people who are outside these bubbles. Granted they are the
           | bit older folks, pre-smarthpone people, mostly retirees.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Ads and social media are not the reason that humans have
           | climbed mountains or sailed unmapped seas for centuries. They
           | are not the reason captain Scott died on a polar expedition.
           | 
           | Seeking fame and fortune is baked into the human condition,
           | all the way back to hierarchy in tribes.
        
         | taco-hands wrote:
         | This made me think of Ralph Waldo Emerson's poem "What is
         | success": To laugh often and much; To win the respect of
         | intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the
         | approbation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false
         | friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To
         | give of one's self; To leave the world a bit better, whether by
         | a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social
         | condition; To have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung
         | with exultation; To know even one life has breathed easier
         | because you have lived - This is to have succeeded.
        
           | miramba wrote:
           | That was beautiful and inspiring.
        
           | beryilma wrote:
           | When I was a college student some 30 years ago, this poem was
           | in my physics textbook. I made a hand-written copy of it to
           | carry in my wallet because I loved it so much. I always
           | thought that the book's author wrote it. This brought back
           | the same feelings I had then after reading the poem.
           | Thanks...
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | > To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy
           | child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition
           | 
           | Damn, that reminds me of the last part of the movie Living...
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2L8CP31-14
        
         | aconsult1 wrote:
         | Beautiful indeed. It still baffles me how some people have a
         | such gift with words. They can tell stories and make you have
         | feelings, just magical. I know it's a lot of hard work to write
         | like this.
         | 
         | I can write code alright, but I couldn't write words like the
         | author, even if I practice for 100 years.
         | 
         | It has to be a gift.
        
           | itisit wrote:
           | There's a charm to treating talent as some elusive gift
           | bestowed on others. It elevates the mystery and power of
           | what's written; you can really get lost in the flow of words.
           | But rest assured, you too given enough reading, writing, and
           | collaboration can write just the same as the author. It's not
           | magic.
        
         | dzink wrote:
         | The world is driven by Envy, not Greed. Everyone needs
         | something to look forward to. The stoic find it in the act of
         | showing their kids something new, or the joy of planting a
         | plant and waiting to see how it comes out. But if you think
         | you've been deprived of something (money, attention, novelty,
         | experiences, career progression) then you can be wound up like
         | a spring in childhood / early career and overcompensate. You
         | find out eventually, when you've burned your time, heart,
         | energy, money, what truly matters to you. And then you may
         | hopefully get more of it to look forward to. Have you noticed
         | that after having 7 kids even Elon Musk started spending more
         | time with at least one of them - by being more of a caregiver
         | than an absentee famous father.
        
       | fallous wrote:
       | There is an admirable maturity and wisdom in understanding the
       | scope of your life and what is important, and working to make the
       | world as you wish it to be within those confines. Too often we
       | aggrandize ourselves by spending time worrying about the problems
       | of the world far beyond our control and do not try and address
       | them in the realms in which we do have some sway.
        
       | remoquete wrote:
       | Beautifully written. For some reason, Beatles' Eleanor Rigby
       | sounded in my head while I was reading this...
       | 
       | "All the lonely people
       | 
       | Where do they all come from?
       | 
       | All the lonely people
       | 
       | Where do they all belong?"
        
       | zorrolovsky wrote:
       | Beautiful writing. It comes at an interesting time for me.
       | 
       | I'm in a full blown mid-life crisis where my state of mind
       | fluctuates between full contentment and wishing I was doing more
       | with life. This article made me think.
       | 
       | On the one hand, I'm content because I come from an unprivileged
       | background. My family was abusive. Me and my brothers struggled
       | with mental health. We ran away from home as soon as we could.
       | Where I was born there were not any decent jobs, so the future
       | was bleak.
       | 
       | Today, I have a decently-paid job in tech, good life/work
       | balance, a nice clean house, and self-caring habits. I have a
       | great mental and physical health, good relationships and a decent
       | financial position. I traveled the world and had incredible
       | experiences. I've got everything I dreamed about when I struggled
       | mentally, physically and financially.
       | 
       | On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a place
       | where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy what I've
       | got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while but then one
       | day I resent being too complacent. I want to do more. Launch
       | projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The voice of
       | ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking like a 80 year
       | old, move your ass and live more life"
       | 
       | Still working to find that fine balance between contentment and
       | ambition. As a human I'm skeptic I will find the right answer. We
       | tend to work in cycles/moods...
        
         | The_Colonel wrote:
         | > I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live
         | more experiences.
         | 
         | The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a
         | richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources.
         | There's so much personal development you can do without
         | participating in the materialistic rat race.
        
           | amarcheschi wrote:
           | As a young cs students where even the uni professors tell us
           | there's more about it than just money, what would you say is
           | something regarding personal development to do?
        
             | orthoxerox wrote:
             | Get a hobby that you can do outdoors with other people.
             | Hiking, hunting, paddling, sailing, bouldering,
             | volunteering, playing sports, LARPing, reenacting...
             | 
             | Embed yourself into the local community, become a pillar of
             | it.
             | 
             | Start a family and support your children, don't try to
             | mould them into what you wish you could have been.
        
             | elros wrote:
             | Learning things for fun and not just for profit. Physical
             | development, learning a new sport. Spiritual development,
             | meditating, observing. Engaging in arts, creating,
             | exploring. Helping the less fortunate, volunteering,
             | teaching. Traveling, learning about different cultures,
             | different languages. Cooking. Spending time in nature,
             | watching animals, birds, mushrooms, sunsets. Photography.
             | These are just some examples, the list is endless :-)
             | 
             | Personally I've grown a lot from gardening and
             | weightlifting. Having children made me more human.
        
             | hereonout2 wrote:
             | During my late 20s I realised I was very good at my
             | programming job but not much use at anything else. It was
             | quite a disappointing realisation.
             | 
             | I started to do less and eventually no programming outside
             | of office hours and instead invest my spare time in
             | different hobbies and experiences.
             | 
             | I found gaining these new skills really helped build my
             | confidence. 15 years later I'm not just a programmer, I'm a
             | also a motorcyclist, experienced carpenter, been a member
             | of certain meet up groups for over a decade, travelled to a
             | few exotic locations, flown upside down in a plane, the
             | list goes on.
             | 
             | None of these things are exceptional but doing this extra
             | stuff has given me enough dimensions that I kind of feel
             | comfortable with the way I've done the last 15 years. This
             | along with starting a relationship and building a family is
             | enough for me now.
             | 
             | Sure, I could have done more but compared to the corporate
             | quagmire of my 20s things are very different.
        
               | sebastiansm wrote:
               | Programmers and wood. Best friends forever.
        
               | hereonout2 wrote:
               | Indeed, it's almost a cliche.
               | 
               | I believe it satisfies some sort of primeval urge
               | magnified by sitting in front of a screen for decades.
        
           | xvilka wrote:
           | I would disagree. If you think only about yourself - yes,
           | it's not about the money. But if you want make life of your
           | children, grandchildren, etc better, the only answer is
           | money, building generational wealth.
        
             | soufron wrote:
             | Absolutely not. Children and grandchildren are their own
             | persons. The world is full of people who got rich through
             | heritage and who live miserable lives - even when being
             | materially fulfilled.
             | 
             | I would add that this state of mind denotes a
             | characteristic control anguish.
             | 
             | When you're dead, you're dead. You need to let go.
        
               | xvilka wrote:
               | Of course it doesn't guarantee the success, but it helps
               | a lot.
        
               | ricardobeat wrote:
               | Depends on the definition of "success". If it's about
               | raising good people, with decent values and a drive to
               | make the world better, a fat inheritance is probably not
               | a good predictor.
        
               | idiotsecant wrote:
               | Very nearly without exception children who come from
               | backgrounds of generational wealth are terrible people,
               | in my experience.
        
             | vasco wrote:
             | You can work a whole life for generation wealth only to
             | have your kid spend it all in one month as soon as you die.
             | Or to waste away not doing anything while receiving monthly
             | from a trust fund.
             | 
             | Everyone decides what their life to be about, but I'd
             | reflect on leaving too much of your life's meaning to "kick
             | in" only when you're dead. If your whole purpose is to "set
             | your family up forever", a lot of that is out of your
             | control. Whereas if your purpose is to hang out have fun
             | and support each other's goals, usually you can do that
             | right away
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | The obituary does not show Ray had any modern obsession
             | with money - the article does allude to a couple of Ray's
             | jobs.                 "We've had a good life," he said to
             | me nearly every time I visited in his final year, and I
             | knew it to be true even if it might have seemed odd from a
             | distance. On paper, this small life above Clear Creek
             | should have left a long list of regrets, of what ifs. But
             | this life was the life, the very thing he and my
             | grandmother Grace set out to make when they married in the
             | little church up the road in 1954.            The best time
             | of his life was when his girls were little, Ray said as he
             | neared the end. He and Grace raised two daughters: Joy
             | (pictured left) and Debbie.
             | 
             | The modern disease of setting money as a primary goal is
             | missing the point of life. We use money for the things we
             | want. Concentrate on the wants and consider _why_ you want
             | those things. Keep your eye on the ball.
             | 
             | > generational wealth.
             | 
             | What do your kids want that means they need your money? To
             | go to university and join the same treadmill as you?
             | Personally I wanted to earn my own way in life - I didn't
             | want to live off my parents (although I probably could
             | have). Independence is another modern goal. I have retired
             | early, but money in itself brings many many unobvious
             | problems. It doesn't magically give me an obviously better
             | life than my friends (who are on a _very_ wide range of
             | incomes).
             | 
             | We are all given approximately 70 years - be very very
             | careful how you spend yours. Perhaps listen to a few good
             | people that have spent more of their 70 years than you
             | have, and learn what they have learned over time.
        
           | dakiol wrote:
           | > There's so much personal development you can do without
           | participating in the materialistic rat race.
           | 
           | That takes money, although in a different form: time. I can
           | only enjoy those experiences if I have time for them (and I'm
           | not talking about enjoying them after working 8h during the
           | day, because I end up exhausted and cannot enjoy anything at
           | all). So, in order to enjoy things I need to work less, which
           | means less money. That's the price. It's always money
        
             | goodpoint wrote:
             | > That takes money, although in a different form: time
             | 
             | > That's the price. It's always money
             | 
             | Tell that to unemployed people. To children. To retired
             | people. To people with serious sickness.
             | 
             | Time is not money.
        
               | dartos wrote:
               | It isn't, but it has similar uses.
               | 
               | With more money you have more time.
               | 
               | not needing to wait in line at a check cashing or payday
               | loan office, not needing to wait in the ER because you
               | can't afford primary care, not needing to get your car
               | fixed every year because you can afford one with fewer
               | miles.
               | 
               | There's a lot of hidden time costs if you're not well
               | off.
        
               | magicpin wrote:
               | Hell just the time sink of using a laundromat with
               | defective machines vs filling up your own machine and
               | moving over loads when it's convenient for you
        
               | goodpoint wrote:
               | > There's a lot of hidden time costs if you're not well
               | off.
               | 
               | Of course and that's my point.
        
             | hereonout2 wrote:
             | This is true for almost all of us though? Nearly everyone
             | has to work at least 5x 8 hour days a week - some much
             | more. Some have complex family needs that must be attended
             | to before any personal time can even be considered.
             | 
             | There is always some time though, it just needs to be made
             | and scheduled and worked on. We can choose to veg out in
             | front of Netflix, or doom scroll, or peruse hacker news,
             | but we can also choose to do something else possibly more
             | fulfilling.
             | 
             | Of course not as good as having more disposable money and
             | fewer work commitments but painting it as an all or nothing
             | situation feels very defeatist.
        
               | vundercind wrote:
               | Staring at screens all day is _weirdly_ taxing.
               | 
               | My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social,
               | active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of
               | prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive
               | environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming
               | computer-heavy office job.
               | 
               | After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, " _Now_ I
               | understand why you're so worn-out after work hours"
               | 
               | I've felt a lot more refreshed and ready to do stuff
               | after working physical jobs or (especially) lightly-
               | physical jobs that involve little or no computer use,
               | than after a day of cushy office work.
               | 
               | It's not the sitting. Standing desks and walking breaks
               | don't help much. Computer work is just bizarrely
               | draining.
        
               | hesviiggvv wrote:
               | Computer work is so far outside the realm of what we as
               | humans have been doing as "work" since the dawn of time.
               | I wonder how significant that is? Could we be
               | evolutionarily or culturally ill-suited to working this
               | way?
        
               | lumost wrote:
               | I spent many years feeling guilty about this.
               | Particularly during covid when, on paper, there wasn't a
               | lot else going on.
               | 
               | Anecdotally, the thing to remember is that you brain is
               | an organ - Even professional trainers can't do their
               | workouts more then 3-4 hours a day. Why would one expect
               | that the brain can magically _work_ 8-10 hours at max
               | intensity?
               | 
               | If you observe any job, workers have downtime - in the
               | office, this would happen organically. Teams would get
               | bored and chit chat, hallway conversations would go on
               | too long etc.
               | 
               | With WFH - it's entirely possible to _work_ 8-12 hours a
               | day. This is the mental equivalent of endurance racing,
               | burnout is inevitable at this pace - just like injury
               | would be for athletes trying to train at that schedule.
        
               | polishdude20 wrote:
               | I wonder if it's to do with always focusing on the same
               | distance. When doing a job where you're walking, your
               | eyes are constantly focusing at different distances and
               | taking in lots of information that's more rich than any
               | website can give you.
               | 
               | Maybe constant screen time just tells your body "hey you
               | can relax, nothing is around to attack you"
        
               | hollerith wrote:
               | Why would "hey you can relax, nothing is around to attack
               | you" wear you out?
        
               | polishdude20 wrote:
               | It signals to your body that you can sleep? So you stop
               | producing whatever it is that makes you alert, attentive,
               | energized.
        
               | hollerith wrote:
               | Sure, but if I slept or rested during working hours, I'd
               | be _more_ energetic in after working hours, not less.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | That's the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on
               | a farm, and as you might imagine it involved hard
               | physical labor daily. I would 100x rather do my current
               | job as a systems engineer. It's so much easier than
               | working on the farm that I feel guilty sometimes, because
               | I know that I work 1/10 as hard as people making 1/5 of
               | what I do.
        
               | hereonout2 wrote:
               | I just paid to get my lawn cleared for a new patio. A guy
               | single handedly shovelled 8 tonnes of clay soil into a
               | skip over two days.
               | 
               | He charged much less than I earned in the same two days
               | configuring AWS lambda functions. It's hard to imagine I
               | had the more exhausting job.
        
               | kbenson wrote:
               | They're not saying it's harder, just that it leaves you
               | not wanting to do other things when you're done, and in a
               | way that doesn't map to traditional physical fatigue,
               | which is why it's "weirdly" taxing and not just taxing.
               | 
               | Mental and emotional fatigue accrue and exhibit
               | themselves differently sometimes, but often matter quite
               | a bit in the end. Plenty of people choose to leave well
               | paid office jobs for more physical jobs that pay less.
               | Unless you think they have a mental illness or are
               | stupid, presumably they did it for a good reason.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | I realize what they're saying. I'm saying I don't have
               | the same experience.
        
               | mlyle wrote:
               | It depends upon the person and the exact situation, but
               | it's a fundamentally different kind of tired. My students
               | marvel at this.
               | 
               | They can tinker with mechanical things for a 12 hour
               | crunch session before a robotics competition, and end up
               | achy, hangry, and physically tired. But it might not be
               | as exhausting as as an intense 1.5 hour math class or
               | chasing a bug staring at screens for a couple of hours.
        
               | krumpet wrote:
               | I used to be a high school teacher and, though not as
               | physically taxing as working on a farm, I feel the same
               | about how much easier my current tech job is.
               | 
               | Teaching is just sooooo exhausting.
        
               | blackSnake wrote:
               | I've noticed that too. Its an unnatural thing for the
               | body to do, interacting with a computer or other digital
               | device for that length of time. I've never walked away
               | from using the computer feeling charged and rejuvenated,
               | even when working on something I enjoy. Not mentally, I
               | am referring to a whole body feeling.
               | 
               | I believe the vibrations emanating from digital devices
               | is partly incompatible with human biology, so the body
               | spends significant energy trying to maintain its default
               | "state" so to speak, which is why it feels draining to
               | use computer for long stretches of time. If you read a
               | book for hours on end, it would not have the same effect
               | so its not purely the sedentary nature of it.
               | 
               | In qi-gong practice, there is a concept known as
               | "drawing" where you can increase your strength and
               | vitality from being in proximity to different objects.
               | For example, if I put you in a room full of plants and
               | natural sunlight, you WILL become physically stronger
               | instantly. If I put you in a server computer room, you
               | will become physically weaker instantly. The body is
               | constantly adjusting its "aura".
               | 
               | I don't know the science behind it, but it is easy to
               | experiment with. Have someone resist a push while in a
               | wide stance while holding in their left hand
               | 
               | 1. a phone in their hand turned on
               | 
               | 2. hold a living plant
               | 
               | 3. glass of water
               | 
               | 4. a battery
               | 
               | See if you can feel the difference in your ability to
               | resist the push. It will change based on the object in
               | your hand.
               | 
               | There is some challenges:
               | 
               | 1. the pusher has to have correct form and measured
               | strength. By correct form, it means you know how to
               | correctly use your body to create an effective push
               | (standing too close to not engage your legs, only using
               | your arms to push, etc) Measured strength means similar
               | force each time to have a base to compare to.
               | 
               | 2. the pushee has to maintain a "neutral" state and
               | provide the same amount of resistance on every push, to
               | maintain the "control" group.
               | 
               | 3. enough sensitivity as the pusher to feel the different
               | levels of resistance provided by the pushee. On some
               | pushes, the pushee might feel "heavier" or "lighter"
               | 
               | 4. Patience. Whatever object you are holding has an
               | effect on your body and most people cannot feel it
               | initially. In fact, it takes years to cultivate enough
               | sensitivity to feel subtle changes.
               | 
               | I think there has been some research on this topic in
               | regards to wearing synthetic clothing made of nylon or
               | polyester.
        
               | beryilma wrote:
               | This is absolute nonsense.
               | 
               | Plants, nature, etc. will for sure make people feel
               | better compared to sitting in front of a computer. They
               | will not make you instantly stronger or weaker... I
               | guarantee that no double-blind experiment will ever show
               | such effects.
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | Well, not entirely. What you hold subtly affects your
               | response to a push, and the effect can be dramatic. The
               | pusher, with eyes closed, will notice the difference.
        
             | afpx wrote:
             | In 1999, I started my first job out of college with a
             | salary of $30,000 per year. I spent most of the day coding
             | in a cubicle. It was analytically satisfying but not what I
             | truly wanted to do. It was also quite stressful, and the
             | hours were long. I had chosen computer science because I
             | was moderately good at it, and I hoped it would help me pay
             | off my $50,000 in college loans.
             | 
             | In my first week of work, I realized I needed to find a way
             | out. I had a hunch that the path I was on would not end
             | well. I found an online group of people with similar
             | thoughts. They were into "simple living," inspired by a
             | book called "Your Money or Your Life." After reading it, I
             | created a spreadsheet and started plotting numbers. I
             | calculated that by continuously reducing my expenses and
             | saving everything beyond a minimal lifestyle, and investing
             | it in index funds, I could reach a point where my
             | investments matched my spending.
             | 
             | For the next 25 years, I kept reducing my spending and
             | invested the surplus into the S&P 500. At the time, that
             | was considered a very aggressive move, as a more
             | conservative strategy was recommended. But, I decided to
             | give it a try. I forwent a consumer lifestyle. I didn't
             | travel much and spent most of my free time reading. When I
             | eventually started a family, I devoted time to them. I had
             | to put on blinders, though. The cars, houses, lavish
             | vacations, fancy dining, clothes, gadgets--I ignored all
             | that. I bought houses in the poorest neighborhoods and
             | fixed them up. I drove the cheapest cars that were
             | reliable. I adopted a simple wardrobe. I bought second
             | hand. I figured out how to make nutritious, delicious meals
             | from the least expensive ingredients. Often, I felt like I
             | was missing out compared to my peers, especially as wages
             | in the industry grew. But, I endured and stuck to the plan.
             | 
             | These days, this movement seems to have evolved into FI/RE.
             | Although it's not quite the same, it probably has similar
             | goals.
             | 
             | I saw a few people make huge payoffs from startups and
             | IPOs, so I tried that too. But it was terrible for my
             | mental health, and I quickly learned that the board and the
             | CEO were not on the side of the common worker--they had no
             | intention of sharing their payouts. I worked for four
             | failed startups with some more steady work in between. In
             | hindsight, I don't recommend it. It wasn't worth it. I made
             | less money than my peers, and I put too much of myself into
             | the products I helped build. In the end, only those with
             | money made more money. The rest of us got shafted.
             | 
             | But the moral of the story is, if you have 25 years, you
             | might also be able to do it. Times have changed, though.
             | But there's still probably an intersection point. The
             | opportunities are greater than they ever have been. Given
             | today's wages, I could have probably reached my goals 10
             | years earlier.
             | 
             | The transition to retiring early wasn't without its pains.
             | I hadn't fully envisioned a future, and when I finally met
             | my goals, I realized time had changed. In the years that
             | followed, I experienced significant anguish because the
             | dreams I once had (becoming an artist, going into academia)
             | were no longer realistic. I needed over two years just to
             | recover from burnout. But now, I'm finally somewhat
             | satisfied but still quite lost and with anxiety. But, I
             | feel the best I've felt since my 20s, and things get better
             | every day.
        
               | Archelaos wrote:
               | > it would help me pay off my $50,000 in college loans
               | 
               | If you have teenagers who want to go to university,
               | consider encouraging them to learn German and then study
               | in Germany. In 2021, the average monthly spendings of a
               | student at a German public university were between 783 -
               | 1.896 EUR, depending on the location.[1] (University fees
               | are included in this number and range between 14 and 136
               | EUR per month. Sometimes there apply moderate additional
               | fees for non-EU students, depending on their
               | nationality.) Non-EU students are at least eledgible for
               | working at the university as research assistants and
               | thus, if they are clever, can earn an income to cover
               | some of these costs.
               | 
               | [1] Source: https://www.studis-online.de/studienkosten/
               | (in German)
        
               | tycho-newman wrote:
               | German schools also ruthlessly cull students beginning in
               | grade 4 or 5. Only a small number ever get the
               | opportunity to go to university at all, let alone at
               | those fees.
               | 
               | German universities are relatively cheap because they
               | keep the eligibility pool small. That reduces the cost to
               | the state.
        
               | Archelaos wrote:
               | > Only a small number ever get the opportunity to go to
               | university at all
               | 
               | In 2022, 56.4% of people living in Germany of a yearly
               | cohort started university (including universities of
               | higher education/Fachhochschule). 51.7% of males, 61.5%
               | of females. 473,665 people (this number includes some
               | foreign students, though) out of a population of aprox.
               | 84 million. All in all, 2,915,700 people studied in
               | Germany. I would not call that number "small".
               | 
               | The student quotient for the US is somewhat higher, but
               | German and foreign systems are often not well comparable,
               | because there are a lot of advanced vocational training
               | programs in Germany outside of university that are
               | equivalent or even better than many university programs
               | in other countries.
               | 
               | [1] Source:
               | https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-
               | Umwelt/Bildun...
        
               | vondur wrote:
               | Here's the stats for California (population 39 million):
               | 
               | California has the highest number of college students in
               | the United States, with 2.58 million enrolled in 2023.
        
             | mlyle wrote:
             | It kind of comes down to money, but...
             | 
             | My wife and I work as teachers now after successful paths
             | in tech. I do some consulting, choosing the most
             | interesting problems instead of money.
             | 
             | We seek fulfillment and meaning and personal growth instead
             | of papering over suck buying nice things.
             | 
             | Of course, having a big pile of capital as a backup makes
             | this a lot safer to do.
        
             | jwells89 wrote:
             | This exactly. I'd love to not have to work for a living so
             | I could spend my days tinkering on projects, drawing,
             | learning an instrument, etc. There's so much to learn and
             | resources to do so have never been more abundant or readily
             | available. There's enough to keep a person busy for several
             | lifetimes.
             | 
             | But that requires money. A lot of it, if that's what I want
             | to do from today in my mid-30s onward.
             | 
             | I'm already doing some of this in my spare time and I'm
             | grateful for the ability and opportunity to do so -- having
             | come from a poor background it's absolutely not taken for
             | granted -- but having to work to live means everything else
             | is pushed off into the margins with whatever energy and
             | passion is leftover. I want to be able to get obsessed with
             | and lost in whatever I'm pursuing like I did as a teenager,
             | and that's not feasible as long as a job is commanding most
             | of my waking productive hours.
        
           | felipefar wrote:
           | > The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a
           | richer life means earning/spending a lot of money /
           | reaources. There's so much personal development you can do
           | without participating in the materialistic rat race.
           | 
           | If you launch projects to gain fame, sure it is
           | materialistic. But you can work on projects that help you
           | understand things better, or to build the personality you
           | want to have, both of which are the opposite of materialism.
           | 
           | They aren't egoistic as well, because you can then share your
           | solutions with others, which are also going to benefit from
           | it.
        
           | krumpet wrote:
           | This is my focus. Though admittedly selfish, I'm spending
           | time learning more songs on the guitar, improving my cooking
           | skills, mastering a new language, etc. Once our children are
           | out of the house, I plan to also become more involved in
           | supporting our community.
           | 
           | It took time to understand that my time is better spent
           | supporting our kids' activities and maintaining an organized
           | home than chasing another promotion.
        
         | famahar wrote:
         | Have you considered getting into art? I find art projects to be
         | big motivator and fills me with ambition. The great thing is I
         | do it for myself so I can feel content knowing I don't need to
         | fulfill the needs of an audience. You can be ambitious as you
         | want. Making concrete sculptures, woodworking,oil painting,
         | restoring old furniture, developing a game (physical or
         | digital), writing short stories, researching and writing a book
         | or zine on a random niche subject. I find that making art fills
         | that hole that exists when I'm not doing much in life.
        
         | padraigf wrote:
         | I just got a new book on this subject: Midlife: A Philosophical
         | Guide, by Kieran Setiya (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Midlife-
         | Philosophical-Guide-Kieran-...). Not got too far into it, but I
         | like it so far.
        
         | herodoturtle wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing, and congratulations on your achievements
         | (especially considering your beginnings).
         | 
         | You and I are of similar age, and have a similar backstory, so
         | if I may, I'd like to suggest the following:
         | 
         | Help others.
         | 
         | For me my midlife crisis was quickly eradicated when I turned
         | my surplus time and resources to assisting the needy through
         | volunteer work.
         | 
         | I hope this resonates with you - it was a significantly
         | positive turning point in my life, which gave me a great deal
         | of perspective and gratitude.
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | > Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.
         | 
         | Pick one.
         | 
         | The "grind" mindset about money for the sake of money is the
         | opposite of personal growth.
        
         | cik wrote:
         | I completely relate to this. At 41 years old, I met my life's
         | goal, a goal I never thought I would attain (and it's not
         | wealth). Rather than be empowering and celebratory, that turned
         | out to be debilitating, taking me years, until I found a new
         | path. I'm still starting down that path, but at least now I
         | have a goal that will take me 20-25 more years.
         | 
         | People will tell you to focus on you. People will tell you to
         | focus on money. People will tell you to focus on neither. The
         | reality is that what motivates you, gives you meaning, and
         | continues to propel you might change. There's no right answer,
         | and that's healthy. The process, I think is the important part,
         | no matter how painful that may be.
        
           | slaucon wrote:
           | what's the new goal?
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | "A young boy became a monk. He dreamed of enlightenment and of
         | learning great things. When he got to the monastery he was told
         | that each morning he had to chop wood for the monks fires and
         | then carry water up to the monastery for ablutions and the
         | kitchen. He attended prayers and meditation, but the teaching
         | he was given was rather sparse.
         | 
         | One day he was told to take some tea to the Abbot in his
         | chambers. He did so and the Abbot saw he looked sad and asked
         | him why.
         | 
         | He replied every day all I do is chop wood and carry water. I
         | want to learn. I want to understand things. I want to be great
         | one day, like you.
         | 
         | The Abbot gestured to the scrolls on shelves lining the walls.
         | He said, 'When I started I was like you. Every day I would chop
         | wood and carry water. Like you I understood that someone had to
         | do these things, but like you I wanted to move forward.
         | Eventually I did. I read all of the scrolls, I met with Kings
         | and and gave council. I became the Abbot. Now, I understand
         | that the key to everything is that everything is chopping wood
         | and carrying water, and that if one does everything mindfully
         | then it is all the same.'" [1]
         | 
         | Keep chopping wood and carrying water.
         | 
         | [1] - https://www.sloww.co/enlightenment-chop-wood-carry-water/
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | I'm not an expert on Buddhism but this anecdote/story has
           | never been particularly insightful to me. One criticism I
           | have is that it treats Enlightenment/knowledge etc. as a
           | single transferable piece of knowledge, and seems to not
           | notice the impact of process and undergoing the ritual. "The
           | journey is the destination" and so forth.
           | 
           | Chopping wood and carrying water may be the answer, but you
           | might not realize the significance of that answer without
           | deeply probing the question.
        
             | jungturk wrote:
             | Right - in that story that requisite process has slunk into
             | the background - that "everything is chopping wood" means
             | something quite different to someone who has read all the
             | scrolls, and counseled all the kings, and attained the role
             | of Abbot.
             | 
             | The fact about wood-chopping is the product of
             | enlightenment, not the cause of it.
        
             | akomtu wrote:
             | The word "mindfully" at the end carries too much meaning
             | that can't be unpacked without reading a bunch of books.
             | This story looks identical to many stories told in the
             | dzogchen branch of buddhism. The basic idea is that normal
             | life is full of earthly activities: chopping woods and
             | carrying water. An average mind gets distracted by those
             | activities and is dragged passively from one distraction to
             | another. An enlightened mind watches these earthly
             | activities with full attention, like you would watch
             | colorful butterflies, but is not carried away from deep
             | realisation that these butterflies come and go as simple
             | decorations of the neutral state of mind, which is often
             | called "emptiness". When these two qualities meet -
             | emptiness and clarity of perception - the mind enters the
             | natural state and if you can stay in that state while
             | chopping woods and carrying water, you're enlightened. If
             | chopping woods carries you away from that natural state,
             | you're said to be "distracted".
        
               | accrual wrote:
               | This was a very approachable explanation, thank you. Do
               | you have any particular resources you'd recommend for
               | learning more about this?
        
               | akomtu wrote:
               | "The Essence of Dzogchen in the Native Bon Tradition of
               | Tibet"
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | ... and with that the young monk became enlightened. The next
           | day they chopped a little less wood and carried a little less
           | water.
        
         | eggdaft wrote:
         | I've achieved everything I set out to in life, at least
         | everything I have control over and set out to do when I was in
         | my 20s.
         | 
         | I've added a new ambition after some thought, not sure if I'll
         | manage to squeeze it in.
         | 
         | But I see the second half of my life now as predominantly about
         | "service". I think it's important for everyone to have a life,
         | to do the things they love, to follow some ambition or passion
         | and take care of themselves. But we then need to ensure we help
         | others do the same.
         | 
         | So my focus now is on my parents, family members, my partner,
         | and society. I'm very grateful I had the health and opportunity
         | to build and see what I wanted. Now it's payback. I still do
         | selfish things - I have to in order to stay sane - but the
         | focus is on service.
        
           | 616c wrote:
           | I for one would like to see you write more about this.
        
           | JackMorgan wrote:
           | I feel the same. I spent the first 15 years of my career
           | climbing out of poverty. Now, I've got stability, so the last
           | few years I'm focusing on service towards others.
           | 
           | I've been volunteering for the last two years as a
           | firefighter, and yesterday just finished the required ride
           | alongs to complete my EMT. It feels good to deeply integrate
           | with my local community, caring for neighbors when they need
           | help. Between emergency response and a software engineer
           | apprenticeship program I run I am spending a significant
           | amount of time each week on community service. I feel safer
           | and more connected to my community than ever before. It's
           | been amazing for my anxiety.
        
             | grogenaut wrote:
             | Very interesting. I just finished my EMT and starting OEC
             | for ski patrol Monday. And interviews for volunteer EMT
             | early may. Even though my grandfather was a firefighter but
             | died early. I'm more interested in EMT. My dad did the
             | climbing out of poverty but also died early so I don't know
             | what he would have done "of service", maybe just left it to
             | my mom who was a court child advocate.
             | 
             | So far just the ride alongs (you can help a little) at
             | fire, EMT, ski patrol have been great. And the training as
             | well. Much more interesting and fulfilling than just
             | vegging out on Netflix after a week in tech.
        
             | consf wrote:
             | > I spent the first 15 years of my career climbing out of
             | poverty.
             | 
             | I am at this stage of life's journey where I understand
             | that just a little bit more and I will be able to enjoy my
             | existence...
        
               | jwoq9118 wrote:
               | Same. Still climbing out. It's been a decade for me, but
               | that's counting college where I was working to keep my
               | family okay alongside school. Been a full time software
               | engineer since 2020, still wading through debt and
               | helping my family stay afloat. Reading this thread has
               | done some good for my soul.
        
           | bumby wrote:
           | > _I see the second half of my life now as predominantly
           | about "service"._
           | 
           | David Brooks articulates this sentiment well in his book "The
           | Second Mountain."
        
         | FL33TW00D wrote:
         | https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10378/10378-h/10378-h.htm#li...
        
         | _wire_ wrote:
         | It's at this point that you may discover you have something you
         | want to give, to your family, community, yourself. Your
         | prosperity is the beginning of freedom. Very lucky position.
         | Also very painful when you come into contact with others
         | suffering, but this must be faced. You have something to give,
         | which is full of meaning.
        
         | Hendrikto wrote:
         | > I want to [...] earn more money
         | 
         | Why? Money is a means to an end. What would that buy you, given
         | that you said you achieved your goals and got everything you
         | need.
         | 
         | Do you think you will look back on your life and wish you had
         | made more money? I do not.
        
         | lettergram wrote:
         | Everyone I've ever known who struggled in this manner has
         | narrowed it down to lack of purpose.
         | 
         | If you have a reason to live, it's not ambition that keeps you
         | going, nor contentment. It's a reason to do something. My buddy
         | finds purpose in personal improvement (working out a couple
         | hours a day), I find it in shaping the future and being with my
         | little ones.
         | 
         | Traveling, luxury, comfort is not a purpose. It's fine; but
         | it's not food for your soul, so to speak. One easy thing to do
         | is join a community and contribute in someone (that breeds
         | purpose as people rely on each other).
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | There is a discontent that is fundamental to creation. After
         | all, if what exists was enough, then why create anything? The
         | wide variety of human personalities (on a long timescale) and
         | moods (short timescale) is nothing less than Nature performing
         | a great Search. What She is searching for is unknown, past mere
         | survival. It makes sense to me to place that discontent in the
         | context of a broader survival, the survival of the species,
         | long-term. Something that other life cannot contemplate or work
         | towards, but we can. And insofar as we are embedded in an
         | ecosystem, it means protecting Life on Earth, and also
         | spreading it beyond Earth. Lives well lived, quietly, like this
         | man's, are both a triumph and a dead-end, simultaneously. It
         | seems reasonable that a wide diversity of lives are needed and
         | wanted by nature, or we wouldn't have them, and all of them are
         | useful in their way.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | > _On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a
         | place where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy
         | what I've got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while
         | but then one day I resent being too complacent. I want to do
         | more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.
         | The voice of ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking
         | like a 80 year old, move your ass and live more life"_
         | 
         | Is that "voice of ambition" your voice, or just what society or
         | peers or media influencers (like grind vloggers) conditioned
         | you to want?
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | I know what you are saying and the best I can come up with is
         | to keep the ambition but give up on the result. I find this
         | keeps me actively involved in things but with no expectation on
         | outcome. When things do come to fruition I find I'm pleasently
         | surprised that everything came together.
        
         | rors wrote:
         | You've managed to move on from a situation where you were
         | deprived of security, both with respect to love and money, to a
         | new situation where you are secure at a relatively young age.
         | That's a huge achievement. I would suggest first contemplating
         | what you have achieved. You sound like an ambitious individual,
         | and you should recognise how much you have done from a poor
         | start.
         | 
         | It's natural that the things you once craved were things that
         | would lead you to achieve your goal of security. It's also
         | natural that now you are secure, you no longer need money etc.
         | If you're still ambitious, then you are now in the lucky
         | position where you can be a bit more playful. You have bought
         | yourself the opportunity to try new things, to explore your
         | values. To think about what really excites you.
         | 
         | Don't feel bad that you don't know what those are yet. You've
         | gone from meeting existential needs to now thinking about
         | fulfilment. What an exciting time of your life!
        
         | karl11 wrote:
         | Check out the movie "Perfect Days"
        
           | consf wrote:
           | Thank you for recommendation! That's what I was needing
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | It sounds like you need a hobby, or some kind of activity that
         | isn't work or to make money. Others suggested volunteer work,
         | but it could be joining a hobby community or developing a hobby
         | for that matter. I have colleagues that train for big sporting
         | events, know nerds that organize get-togethers for their nerdy
         | activities and work on outfits, and perhaps a previous
         | generation, but people would go to the pub after work to chat
         | shit and watch sports. A third place, as it's also called.
         | 
         | The article mentions a lot of family, I believe that's one
         | thing my grandparents did as well; with seven kids, most of
         | which who have kids of their own, that's a lot of birthday
         | parties to attend.
        
         | waihtis wrote:
         | I took me a long time to realize it, but the "right" answer
         | here is to focus on living one day at a time, regardless how
         | far or close you're currently setting your aim towards.
        
           | consf wrote:
           | Live your life feeling the moment
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | What is the reason you want to do more?
         | 
         | For me, struggling and learning is what I enjoy. Within that
         | framework, it's not about payout or fame, only the worthy
         | challenge. As I begin to realize this about myself, I have
         | become less worried about measuring achievement, which removes
         | a good deal of the pressure.
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | I'm not the person you asked, but for me it's that I'm
           | interested in solving problems. Not for money or recognition,
           | but because I don't want to tolerate the problem anymore. If
           | seeing it solved means doing more, then I have to do more.
        
           | consf wrote:
           | It's hard to live wothout a framework of payouts..
        
         | pipnonsense wrote:
         | I am also 45 and on a similar current situation as you
         | (although I luckily come from a privileged background). One
         | thing that is working a lot for me is trying to become a
         | professional fiction writer.
         | 
         | There is a lot a of ambition and uncertainty in it. I always
         | enjoyed writing (whatever the context, not only fiction) and
         | now I enjoy getting better at writing fiction. I enjoy being
         | part of a group of other wanna-be writers with the same goals
         | and challenges. I made real friends this way. I enjoy listening
         | podcasts, videos, interviews from experienced authors. I am
         | even enjoying more working on some software side-projects that
         | are related to literature (in general or my own).
         | 
         | At the same, there is very little chance that this endeavor
         | will have any financial return. In Brazil, where I live, you
         | can count in the dozens the number of writers that live solely
         | from the income of book royalties and in the hundreds the
         | number of writers that live from literature (royalties +
         | workshops, online courses, literary services, etc).
         | 
         | So, even some successful authors that have decent number of
         | readers (for Brazil's context) and some awards, have a day job.
         | 
         | This, interestingly for me, who has a well-paid job, removes
         | the pressure of this project of mine. Since it is an art
         | project, to not have the pressure of needing to earn money,
         | actually makes my art better, I have more patience and time to
         | reflect upon it (ironically, increasing my chances to earn
         | money through my art).
         | 
         | But I still have the pressure to earn readers. It's not like I
         | am painting paintings that I am happy enough to complete and
         | leave them on my house studio. I am not doing art for myself,
         | but for others. That's where the ambition part come from. Which
         | I like.
         | 
         | I don't think this comes from a mid-life crisis, as I write
         | short stories since my twenties. It's only now that I have the
         | time, money, and, I might say, wisdom to be able to do it
         | seriously. Writing is one form of art that benefits a lot from
         | like experience.
         | 
         | Just to share what worked for me, and maybe you can find
         | something for you that fits the bill of being an ambitious
         | project that you hope to achieve something meaningful from, but
         | that it's not necessarily attached to financial outcomes. The
         | privilege of being able to be professional about something that
         | might not return more money, even if successful, is something
         | that I treasure a lot.
        
         | Projectiboga wrote:
         | Listen to the call to do. Many great ideas and new business
         | models came from those in their 40s. The other tack is to do
         | some kind of giving back, not so much money but something for
         | love not profit. You have perspective from arising from
         | suboptimal conditions.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | I would encourage you to be ambitious, in the ways that count.
         | (Not necessarily just financial)
         | 
         | Joy is in accomplishment and responsibility.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | Do you have children?
        
         | DontchaKnowit wrote:
         | Im kinda in the same boat. Recently got a dog and have been
         | finding absolute bliss in literally just sitting in the grass
         | with him for like 30 mins at a time. Really is the highlight of
         | my life at this juncture and im totally cool with that.
        
         | mck- wrote:
         | I used to struggle with this too, until I started studying
         | Stoicism. Here's a quote from Marcus Aurelius' meditations 6.15
         | that I think about often:
         | 
         | "Ambition means tying your well being to what other people say
         | or do. Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen
         | to you. Sanity means tying it to your own actions."
        
         | spxneo wrote:
         | 1) change your environment temporarily
         | 
         | 2) let new perspective come to you
         | 
         | 3) implement what your own introspection tells you
         | 
         | I've seen successful people become addicted to drugs because
         | they let their minds idle and they lost perspective.
         | 
         | Remember the devil doesn't come with bulls and horns. It comes
         | bearing gifts to hook you in.
        
         | consf wrote:
         | I just try to remember that it's okay to strive for more while
         | also taking the time to appreciate where you are and what
         | you've accomplished
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | If that itch might be saying "do more to shape the future", one
         | way to scratch it is by working with young people. Mentor a
         | robotics team or something.
        
       | notincel wrote:
       | This is nice story.
       | 
       | That said, I feel like the people praising "the quiet life" are
       | missing that this man found a companion at ~20yrs old and with
       | that companion had a family and kids and grand kids.
       | 
       | Plenty of people never find that anchor/base/partner
       | 
       | https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-...
       | 
       | It's arguably easy to be content when you have good support
       | around you. Bad or no support and it's much harder.
        
         | keenmaster wrote:
         | Sometimes contentment is followed by a good partner, not caused
         | by one. To reach that state of contentment usually requires
         | some mix of effort and satisfaction with the outcomes of that
         | effort and ultimately your confidence in your ability to
         | maintain and grow the things you value in life. If you worked
         | hard but the outcome isn't good - why? If you achieved a good
         | outcome (like a solid degree, a good job, and/or home
         | ownership) but are particularly unsatisfied - why? If you're
         | not confident in your future - why? It's not a requirement to
         | settle these questions before finding companionship, but it
         | helps.
         | 
         | No doubt a good partner multiplies contentment, but they
         | shouldn't be facing a void of it either. Lastly, if you find
         | that your contentment is being pulled and pushed and stomped on
         | by external factors, then do what is needed to gain control of
         | it again - anyone can achieve this, and if someone in a land of
         | possibility thinks they're the exception, that the world really
         | is getting in their way, they're holding themselves back with
         | that very thought.
        
         | iorrus wrote:
         | I have to agree, it's unusual the way the writer described this
         | man as living a "quiet life". He was the head of the union in
         | what was likely a major employer and had a large family along
         | with probably a large extended family.
         | 
         | He didn't seek fame but I wouldn't describe this man as a quiet
         | one, he probably lived in a rich social network full of
         | visitors, work colleagues, veterans, friends etc. There are
         | very few people aside from egotists who seek large scale
         | recognition for their work etc.
        
         | nojvek wrote:
         | I was watching a video about Stanford long term happiness study
         | https://youtu.be/IULhd1UuicA?si=6YezvfwZ5NE5ile6
         | 
         | The takeaway being what you mentioned. Having a long term
         | loving caring relationship is the biggest indicator.
        
       | gardenhedge wrote:
       | > Quiet Life
       | 
       | > stolen a school bus
        
       | catoc wrote:
       | Current no 2 on HN: "What will humans do if technology solves
       | everything?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40029456
       | 
       | A: finally all live like Ray Harrell
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | I feel like this is the truth for the vast majority of people?
       | 
       | Nobody I know is out to do more than live their lives as best
       | they can, and then pass away quietly and contendedly. In between
       | there's a ton of challenges. Many more than I'd ever have
       | expected growing up or only looking at Facebook, but everyone
       | makes it work.
        
       | spicyusername wrote:
       | It's a very nice obituary. I have similar feelings about my own
       | grandfathers. They were figures that seemed larger than life.
       | 
       | Though, I confess, I think I must have a different definition of
       | "quiet life".
       | 
       | My definition of "quite life" doesn't include perennially hosting
       | family Christmas, backpacking across Europe, being the president
       | of a textile union, and getting shipped off to Korea in the
       | military.
       | 
       | To me, those sound like activities of someone not living a quiet
       | life, hah. But maybe these days the bar for quiet life is set at
       | not participating in social media or moving to a major
       | metropolitan area.
       | 
       | Either way Grandpa sounds like he was a righteous dude.
        
       | lulzury wrote:
       | > Being content doesn't mean being blind. It means knowing the
       | difference between a good fight and a selfish one.
       | 
       | I recently watched the movie Perfect Days (2023) and found a
       | similarly resonant theme of contentment and simplicity in life.
       | 
       | It makes one stop and wonder why one often tends to let so many
       | external things drive our lives, happiness, and contentment when
       | things can be so much simpler if we just start to try to see the
       | beauty in what we already have.
        
       | jp0001 wrote:
       | Amazing writing. Reminds me of my grandfather.
       | 
       | I've thought about it this way, you have four options in life: -
       | not rich, not famous - not rich, famous - rich, famous - rich,
       | not famous
       | 
       | The last one is the best, IMO. And by rich, I mean to not need
       | for anything. And that means having your ego in check. The worst
       | thing I've ever witnessed is a literal 100+ millionaire with no
       | peace, still trying to impress people of their wealth and self
       | importance.
        
       | bibelo wrote:
       | A Quiet Life, by TEHO TEARDO & BLIXA BARGELD:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiPVgAhRE6E
        
         | resolutebat wrote:
         | If you liked this, you may appreciate much of Einsturzende
         | Neubauten's newer work:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einst%C3%BCrzende_Neubauten
         | 
         | (The older stuff involves mutilating shopping carts with power
         | equipment and is more of an acquired taste.)
        
       | seatac76 wrote:
       | Beautiful article. Glad to see Bitter Southerner here. They have
       | a wonderful perspective of the South.
       | 
       | If y'all are in the market for a good coffee table book: Waffle
       | House Vistas is very interesting.
       | 
       | Link: https://bsgeneralstore.com/products/waffle-house-vistas-2-0
        
       | jrwiegand wrote:
       | This is a wonderful piece and I am glad that I came across it.
       | The line that really hit home for me is the description attached
       | to the photos with his girls. I have two young girls now and I
       | take it to heart that right now may be the best time in my life.
       | This sentiment has been something I have heard from many people
       | about their children at this young age. This is just more
       | confirmation to slow down pay attention.
        
       | rubicon33 wrote:
       | Appreciate you posting this. For what it's worth, I'm in the same
       | boat.
       | 
       | I basically achieved my goals in life and am now very
       | comfortable. I could just continue to work and keep up-to-date
       | and find myself old and tired in short time.
       | 
       | I'm poignantly aware of this window of opportunity which is
       | closing. I'm still young(ish), and still have some physical and
       | mental energy... The question is what will I use it for? What
       | would bring me happiness when I am old, sitting in a wheelchair,
       | recounting my life?
       | 
       | As someone who has struggled with mental health most of their
       | life I have vowed to never have kids. For many, children are the
       | answer to this existential question. For myself it will need to
       | be something else and I'm not sure yet what that is. To be
       | honest, I'm worried I may never find it. I was lucky enough to
       | find my first passion (software) but after so many years, the
       | mind yearns for new experiences and to produce something of
       | meaning, something I can be proud of.
        
         | gen220 wrote:
         | For what it's worth, you can still have an impact on youth
         | without being a parent yourself. There's gradations from
         | adoption and fostering to teaching and mentoring. Empathetic
         | inter-generational experiences are beautiful for everyone
         | involved in them. As you age, it literally keeps you young.
        
       | zackmorris wrote:
       | I have two thoughts on this: it's important to find contentment
       | regardless of situation, but I would caution against settling for
       | less.
       | 
       | I've noticed that as more and more aspects of the American dream
       | have been stripped of us by the uber-rich in recent decades, a
       | certain kind of fatalism has settled into our collective psyche.
       | There's a sense now that the quiet life is out of reach,
       | regardless of income. That wages will never rise fast enough to
       | keep up with the rising cost of housing. That there are just more
       | and more and more people everywhere, that our heritage is being
       | gentrified. That the hustle and bustle has nearly eclipsed most
       | personal interaction. Basically that the worsening struggle of
       | postmodernism has replaced community, tradition, and so on.
       | 
       | Ironically I had welcomed tech/progress up through the late
       | 1990s, because young people today may not realize how ignorant
       | times were then, when shows like All in the Family may as well
       | have been documentaries. If you watch Saved by the Bell and
       | Napoleon Dynamite, notice how there's no real technology, and
       | there's an impression that the future is coming, but at a glacial
       | pace. It wasn't like today, where if something hasn't been
       | invented yet, it just means you haven't searched hard enough for
       | it on the internet. We still had science instead of
       | manifestation, so nobody told us how much our dreams mattered,
       | only that we should put our noses to the grindstone.
       | 
       | Now in middle age after a lifetime of hard work with little to
       | show for it, I find myself asking what all of this is for. What's
       | the point of tech if it just makes you work harder? Shouldn't it
       | make life easier, and bring more money and resources your way?
       | And I think a lot about people who are good for nothin. Energy
       | vampires who suck the life out of you when you're trying to make
       | progress. They used to be people like me, angstful cynics who
       | pointed out the absurdity of the modern world, who took solace in
       | shows like South Park. Today they're the thought leaders and
       | billionaires who vacuum up all available capital and lobby the
       | government to take away our freedoms. What good are they if they
       | only take but never give?
       | 
       | The key part of the article was unions. You want the quiet life,
       | you've got to organize. This lone wolf, rugged individualist,
       | pull yourself up by your bootstraps dream of winning the internet
       | lottery was a bill of goods. Because winner takes all, and odds
       | are it ain't you. I've been trying for a quarter century and if I
       | knew then what I know now, I never would have started down this
       | road.
       | 
       | I'm shifting my focus to a resource economy where basic
       | necessities are provided by scalable technologies that can't be
       | taken away by concentrated wealth. Where the difference between
       | what employees are billed out for and what they are paid accrues
       | ownership in a business, the same as capital put up by investors.
       | Or that difference is accounted for in tax write-offs, pensions,
       | retirements, social security, and so on. Where job applicants can
       | see that discrepancy in public accounting records and choose not
       | to apply to businesses that exploit them. So that we can all
       | start getting paid what we're worth and build an economic system
       | around improving the human condition instead of feeding off it
       | like vampires.
        
         | sentfromrevolut wrote:
         | You are being downvoted as there is a smell of anti-semitism
         | about your post. Billionaires are a problem yes when their
         | goals do not align with Humanities goals but are instead anti
         | humanity, and that's part of the game - why should they care
         | about humanity ? You are making unreasonable requests on them.
         | 
         | This is the way this world has been organised by God. God is
         | punishing and trying to burn you out until you stop ignoring
         | everything Jesus said and stop cashing in your life experience
         | for ego satisfaction , through your beta bucks provider role,
         | choosing sex and family not celibacy and solitude etc.
         | 
         | Everything is structured as it is for a good reason. You
         | yourself are living against God in many ways and just do not
         | have the awareness to see it, but you suffer with clues and
         | negative results that God is giving you.
        
       | instagraham wrote:
       | Radiohead's "No Surprises" always gave me this vibe, and made me
       | yearn for a quiet life right from college.
        
       | nntwozz wrote:
       | It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.
       | 
       | Not actually Tolkien but it's in the movies.
        
         | ErigmolCt wrote:
         | It is able to bring a sense of peace and fulfillment
        
       | treflop wrote:
       | I've met and seen a lot of people in life and while it's nearly
       | impossible for a life to be stress-free, the content and
       | successful people I've seen -- poor, rich, whatever -- seem to
       | share one commonality: they found their passions in life, whether
       | be it running a successful company, working with charity, hanging
       | with neighborhood inline skate friends or raising cattle in the
       | country side, and they get to do it nearly everyday.
       | 
       | Everyone else is just packing for an inevitable trip that they
       | know they are going on but they don't yet have destination. They
       | try to bag all the milestones and pocket all the supplies that
       | they may need, but without a goal, it is an endless journey
       | without a chance of satisfaction.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, the difficulty is finding your passion. There is
       | no way to discover it without somehow stumbling across it, which
       | takes a lot of time and money and only becomes more difficult
       | with age and increased responsibilities.
        
         | heresie-dabord wrote:
         | > the content and successful people I've seen -- poor, rich,
         | whatever -- seem to share one commonality: they found their
         | passions in life
         | 
         | > Everyone else is just packing for [...] an endless journey
         | without a chance of satisfaction.
         | 
         | With no offence to you and all the fine people whom you
         | know/have known, I think it's clear that there is no regret in
         | living a good, kind, caring life without seeking a "passion" or
         | consumerist distortion. Many millions more people have lived
         | the former than have lived the latter.
        
           | treflop wrote:
           | Living a good, kind, caring life is a passion to me. You have
           | to discover it.
        
       | uwagar wrote:
       | everybody dies of cancer man. what the heck. why?
        
         | XCSme wrote:
         | I guess there always has to be a reason for death?
        
       | ohans wrote:
       | "...I realized that a quiet life isn't a passive life..."
       | 
       | The importance of finding such balance makes all the difference.
       | 
       | Beautiful writing.
        
       | lcuff wrote:
       | Evokes my favorite Warren Buffett quote
       | 
       | "Basically, when you get to my age, you'll really measure your
       | success in life by how many of the people you want to have love
       | you actually do love you."
        
       | csours wrote:
       | I came across the quote "Happiness is a choice" recently. I
       | haven't read the context yet (Suppliants by Aeschylus); but I
       | feel like "Working towards removing unhappiness and increasing
       | happiness is a choice" is a more complete idea.
        
       | sergiogjr wrote:
       | A nice personification of the common man from G.K. Chesterton,
       | like uncountable others we will never hear about outside our own
       | real life circles.
        
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