[HN Gopher] Obituary for a quiet life (2023)
___________________________________________________________________
Obituary for a quiet life (2023)
Author : conanxin
Score : 1040 points
Date : 2024-04-14 04:24 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bittersoutherner.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bittersoutherner.com)
| happytiger wrote:
| This is beautiful. Thank you.
|
| I think people don't understand how important just being there
| for your family actually is. Sometimes it's enough just to be
| reliable, stand for good and just be present. Sounds like he
| really knew it.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| A Rick Roderick quote comes to mind; "" Now, I
| hate the movie The Big Chill, let me make that clear, and
| I hope I can't be sued for hating a movie, I hate The Big
| Chill, because it's about members of my generation,
| all of whom have become swine. The only person in the
| movie I like is dead when the movie starts, and they
| are having his funeral, and the old preacher says
| something quite profound. He asks the crowd of young
| yuppies, he goes "Isn't our common life together and just
| being a good man enough to sustain us anymore?" And the answer
| to that is 'No, it's not'. ""
| ericmcer wrote:
| I am struggling a bit with this right now. Being a provider in
| the modern age means less than it used to. It feels like paying
| all the bills and being reliable isn't valued much.
| all2 wrote:
| Your feelings are correct. The role of provider and protector
| has been largely taken over by the state. And fathers are
| much maligned at this point in most popular media.
| fbdab103 wrote:
| >He'd stolen a school bus as a teenager and backed it over a
| teacher's car.
|
| "Boys will be boys" definitely got a lot more mileage than I had
| previously thought.
| qup wrote:
| Wasn't said whether he was caught at it
| cryptozeus wrote:
| A month before he passed, faded and worn down to a wheelchair,
| his head still popped up when Grandma walked into the kitchen:
| "Hey thar, pretty girl."
|
| <B
| Aloha wrote:
| Being content is like a drug.
|
| The fire reduces, but does go out, you feel warmth in the
| familiar rather than the new, and you find yourself beset,
| wondering whatever you did to deserve this joy.
|
| I hope to sone day some can say the same about me.
| monero-xmr wrote:
| Being content is not about lack of goals or striving. It's
| about enjoying the journey, appreciating what you have, being
| OK psychologically even if your grand plans don't come to
| fruition.
|
| I am always working towards multiple goals in parallel, from
| short to long to ultra long term. But the cadence of regular
| life - the routines we do daily and weekly and yearly - are the
| things that sustain existence. My children, wife, extended
| family, friends, acquaintances, the holidays, the laughs and
| stories and memories. I like exercising, I like coffee, I like
| learning. I can make all the money in the world but the real
| mass of life is not changed, and money is unnecessary to live a
| fulfilling life.
| Aloha wrote:
| For me at least, it means I'm striving a little less hard, I
| think is the best way to put it.
|
| I'm still searching for good things, and the next thing, but
| I'm also enjoying today for today.
| davideous wrote:
| The Bible speaks about this:
|
| "But godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought
| nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the
| world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be
| content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation,
| into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that
| plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money
| is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving
| that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced
| themselves with many pangs." -- 1 Timothy 6:6-10 ESV
| ako wrote:
| Please don't do this, there are many people and stories that
| speak to this. Now it looks like you're claiming this for one
| particular religion, when it's completely unrelated to
| religion.
| zilti wrote:
| You should work on your very warped perception.
| pbourke wrote:
| This text sits at the wellspring of Western culture, such
| as it is. You don't need to accept any metaphysical claims
| that it makes in order to appreciate its wisdom.
| acidioxide wrote:
| There is nothing wrong with drawing on the values that a
| text carries without necessarily agreeing with it in its
| entirety. This quote captures the point of the post above
| quite well.
| ossyrial wrote:
| He is sharing a quote from a religious book, it makes sense
| to cite it, no? If they quoted the Qur'an, a Buddhist
| Sutra, a piece by Kahlil Gibran, or a quote by Adam Smith,
| I would all expect a citation to be honest.
|
| A few comments around we see a quote by Rick Roderick, and
| one by the Beatles. I don't see why this is fundamentally
| different and deserves critique.
| vouwfietsman wrote:
| Quoting a religious/ideologist book is inherently
| different to quoting an individual author or a non-
| religious/spiritual text, because the act of quoting
| itself is part of a tradition of (in this case
| evangelical) propagation of the religion/ideology.
|
| We can pretend to see contemporary bible-quoting as a
| secular thing, but in these cases history matters.
|
| For instance, in the above quote in the part "It is
| through this craving that some have wandered away from
| the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." it is
| obvious that the quoted passage goes beyond a non-
| religious moral text and veers into religious moral
| judgement.
|
| Furthermore, quoting a passage does not isolate you from
| the whole of the work, as you would probably take offense
| to me quoting WWII dictators even if the quote makes
| sense for the topic in isolation.
|
| What I'm saying is all quite obvious and on the nose
| behavior by religious (or ideologist) people, who
| absolutely view quoting as a religious/ideologist act as
| described above.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| > as you would probably take offense to me quoting WWII
| dictators even if the quote makes sense for the topic in
| isolation.
|
| Of course I wouldn't take offense to that. I will accept
| wisdom wherever it is to be found, even if it's from
| Hitler himself. I care about the merit of ideas, not the
| merits of their sources.
| all2 wrote:
| I'm confused at what you are trying to say. As far as I
| can tell, it appears you are saying something like "don't
| quote religious texts in a way that makes them look like
| they have any claim on moral authority". And it appears
| to me that you are saying "moral authority", in this
| case, is a-religious and should not be related to any
| particular religion.
|
| Am I getting this right?
| rramadass wrote:
| Your comment is downright petty and silly.
|
| Wisdom/Insight/Life Advice wherever it comes from is always
| valuable. It is up to _you_ to tease out the kernel of
| knowledge from the chaff of religiosity.
|
| I am no Christian, but i found Robert Alter's _The Wisdom
| Books: Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes_ quite interesting
| and would advice you to a study of the same.
| mistermann wrote:
| > Your comment is downright petty and silly.
|
| And contains some irony.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| Here is the King James version, which I find it much more
| beautiful (from a literary point of view):
|
| But godliness with contentment is great gain.
|
| For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
| can carry nothing out.
|
| And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
|
| But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
| and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in
| destruction and perdition.
|
| For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while
| some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and
| pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
| derriz wrote:
| Maybe but it makes much less sense to me. The meaning of
| "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" is
| very different to "the love of money is the root of all
| evil". The former seems like a reasonable claim. The latter
| is surely untrue? I know of lots of evil acts NOT motivated
| by money or the love of money.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| If you're looking for clear, unambiguous moral guidance,
| then sure, you have a point. For me it's more about how
| it sounds, the poetry of it all, and less about guiding
| my life, my spiritual life or my morality.
| all2 wrote:
| I find these two things to be inextricably bound together
| in my own life.
| davideous wrote:
| Here are a few key paragraphs from a sermon that has the
| most compelling explanation of that sentence that I've
| heard:
|
| > When Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:10, "The love of money is
| the root of all evils," what did he mean? He didn't mean
| that there's a connection between every sinful attitude
| and money -- that money is always in your mind when you
| sin. I think he meant that all the evils in the world
| come from a certain kind of heart, namely, the kind of
| heart that loves money.
|
| > Now what does it mean to love money? It doesn't mean to
| admire the green paper or the brown coins. To know what
| it means to love money, you have to ask: What is money? I
| would answer that question like this: Money is simply a
| symbol that stands for human resources. Money stands for
| what you can get from man, not from God! ("Everyone who
| thirsts, come to the waters. He who has no money come buy
| and eat!" Isaiah 55:1.) Money is the currency of human
| resources.
|
| > So the heart that loves money is a heart that pins its
| hopes, and pursues its pleasures, and puts its trust in
| what human resources can offer. So the love of money is
| virtually the same as faith in money -- belief (trust,
| confidence, assurance) that money will meet your needs
| and make you happy.
|
| > Therefore the love of money, or belief in money, is the
| flip side of unbelief in the promises of God. Just like
| Jesus said in Matthew 6:24 -- you cannot serve God and
| money. You can't trust or believe in God and money.
| Belief in one is unbelief in the other. A heart that
| loves money -- banks on money for happiness, believes in
| money -- is at the same time not banking on the promises
| of God for happiness.
|
| > So when Paul says that the love of money is the root of
| all evils, he implies that unbelief in the promises of
| God is the taproot of every sinful attitude in our heart.
|
| From: https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/battling-
| unbelief-at-be...
| hellojesus wrote:
| I get what you're saying, but as someone completely
| unfamiliar with the Bible but familiar with the common
| phrase, "Money is the root of all evil", I agree that the
| GP's original statement is much clearer.
|
| > For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.
|
| This reads not that money itself is the root of evils, or
| even that a desire for money ensures you live a sinful
| life.
|
| To me this reads that money, as a motivator, can be a
| catalyst to dip into immoral practice. If someone wants
| riches but cares not about how they acquire it, they may
| steal, they may start wars, they may con others, etc. But
| someone who uses their desire of money as a catalyst for
| bringing world change via a new product, service,
| knowledge, is well found in their desires and
| implementation, as they are making the world better while
| achieving their goals.
|
| The contrast in translations completely alters the
| takeaway for me.
| gen220 wrote:
| > But someone who uses their desire of money as a
| catalyst for bringing world change via a new product,
| service, knowledge, is well found in their desires and
| implementation, as they are making the world better while
| achieving their goals.
|
| For what it's worth - and I think it is a worthwhile
| thing to note - I do not believe that Jesus would condone
| this.
|
| To Christ, the root of "well-founded" behavior is the
| golden rule - treat others as you would want yourself to
| be treated. This comes from the Sermon on the Mount.
|
| Capturing value (a requirement to satisfy the desire for
| money) from exchange with your customers is not how you
| would want to be treated, as a customer. If you become
| wealthy from this exchange, you are violating the Golden
| Rule.
|
| This sentiment is corroborated elsewhere, with another a
| famous saying of his that's often "explained away" but
| should probably be taken seriously.
|
| > It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
| needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
|
| Martin Luther (of Lutheranism) has some interesting
| writings/interpretations on this subject [1], if you're
| interested.
|
| [0]: https://biblehub.com/mark/10-25.htm, the larger
| story has more interesting context
| https://biblehub.com/bsb/mark/10.htm#17.
|
| [1]: https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?art
| icle=501...
|
| Edit just to make it clear in a TLDR; the severity of the
| "money is the root of all evil" translation is warranted.
| I'd interpret the "all kinds of evil" translation as
| "every kind of evil", rather than "many kinds of evil"
| (which is how we colloquially interpret 'all kinds' in
| contemporary english).
| jwoq9118 wrote:
| I am giddy seeing a link to Desiring God on HN. John
| Piper, good stuff.
| davideous wrote:
| HN and Desiring God are my two favorite websites.
| pxmpxm wrote:
| Far more overwrought prose in my opinio; like a Baroque
| cheateu, all the beauty is lost in the noise of the
| embellishments.
| grecht wrote:
| Very moving. Often, this is called a "quiet, simple life". I like
| that this obituary does not do that. Being there for your family,
| acting in accordance with your values and standing up for
| yourself, being content with what you have - this is not "simple"
| at all. Someone to look up to.
| threatofrain wrote:
| What you describe is simple, especially in a wealthy nation
| during peace. What doesn't sound so simple was leading union
| politics or rapidly rising through the ranks while deployed
| abroad. This person was certainly not quiet.
| gatinsama wrote:
| Simple, not easy
| stemlord wrote:
| Above items seem to be neither, and it bothers me because
| it betrays the thesis by insinuating that a simple life can
| only be had _after_ having a complicated one. True or not,
| one has to wonder if this too becomes another act of
| propaganda of erasure against the population among us who
| truly do live quietly-- in other words, loud people playing
| quiet people on tv.
| plokiju wrote:
| what is a complex life to you?
| dmje wrote:
| Lovely piece, thanks for posting
| dzink wrote:
| He is not wrong.
|
| "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two
| impostors just the same" - R. Kipling
|
| Media riles up those who have been limited or deprived by
| circumstances. It waves flags and triggers emotions and creates
| envy and conjures social ladders to political influence, or
| financial gains, or popularity and public attention, or peaks of
| history. The reality though is that those apply to the people who
| don't know better - the new grads, the hungry and ambitious, the
| midlife-crisis sufferers, the naive who haven't encountered bad
| people or circumstances. If you've seen a lot or you know evil,
| you don't need a public life where you may attract it. When you
| know what you have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to
| protect it. People value privacy when they have something to
| lose. If you know what you want to do and can do it without
| attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with
| collateral damage from unpredictable attention.
|
| The media today is becoming incredibly propaganda filled and
| charged. This is a highly combustible environment. Big
| geopolitical risks are coming and publicity risks making you a
| target.
|
| When low interest rates paid for VC-subsidized press the world
| was filled with startup success stories and drums up for startups
| and their potential gains. That meant many promising
| entrepreneurs took money at unsustainable expected ROI and lost
| years of their life working for a promise. Another word for that
| is lottery. When the dust settled having a quiet business and
| chugging along profitably proved to be like the little mice who
| survived underground after the asteroid hit.
|
| If you are a cat who just caught a mouse, would you go to a hill
| to advertise to all local predators that you are about to enjoy
| fresh meat?
| p1esk wrote:
| I don't know, try to explain your point of view to people like
| Trump or Musk.
| forgetfreeman wrote:
| It'd be easier to explain Shakespeare to a fish. Sociopaths
| aren't generally much for outside counsel.
| kunley wrote:
| But what for?
|
| People like them are not a point of reference to relate
| everything, you know
| flakeoil wrote:
| Maybe the world would have been a better and friendlier place
| if the two people you mentioned, and others like them, had an
| attitude a bit more muted and humble.
| all2 wrote:
| If their attitude had been either, they would not have
| become what they have become. Humble men do not, by and
| large, take the throne or become captains of industry.
| dzink wrote:
| The world has many more people like them than you think. The
| reason for that is the media's propensity to raise people on
| pedestal over the smallest things and crash and burn that
| made-up image. Some people find new tools in that kind of
| experience. Some people have learned how to raise anyone by
| crafting a narrative for them with money. And some people
| become addicted to it and the attention they never got as a
| child.
| wuj wrote:
| > If you know what you want to do and can do it without
| attention, you are much better off doing than dealing with
| collateral damage from unpredictable attention.
|
| To achieve this state where one can operative effectively
| without external validation often requires them to initially
| engage with the public sphere. This exposure is important to
| getting opportunities, especially when starting out with no
| resources. The purpose of working is to be able to transcend
| this phase and do more autonomous and focused work...
| TimedToasts wrote:
| > If you've seen a lot or you know evil, you don't need a
| public life where you may attract it. When you know what you
| have and value it, a quiet life is the best way to protect it.
| People value privacy when they have something to lose.
|
| That's a wonderful way of framing it. No one is intent on
| violating my privacy to give me anything, only to take.
| epicureanideal wrote:
| " after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride, Grace, snapped
| the photo outside their first house."
|
| Driving a laundry truck.. first house..
|
| Life was so much better a few decades ago.
| dewey wrote:
| But then, he also had to serve in war. Medical care was not
| that advanced, you couldn't read about any niche topic you want
| online. Easy to see things through rose tinted glasses.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| He had to serve in Germany _during_ the Korean war. Still he
| got called up and posted away from his home, so you still
| have a point. I think it was people born in 1950 that had it
| easier, especially in the UK, since we didn 't go to Vietnam.
| MenhirMike wrote:
| In the US, the people that were born in the 1950s got to
| spend their teenage years not knowing if the Soviet Union
| is going to start World War III (the Cuban Missile Crisis
| in 1962 was definitely a forming event for many teenage
| minds), then got to go through the 70s with an energy
| crisis and the potential draft to Vietnam, and then another
| energy crisis, and then got to experience the Chernobyl
| disaster in the 80s, wondering if they should re-watch
| "Duck and cover" and wonder why that hole in the ozone
| layer gets bigger and bigger.
|
| Every generation has its ups and downs. For my generation,
| I have to deal with sky-high real estate prices, but I also
| have access to an unprecedented amount of free
| entertainment, free knowledge, the cheap supercomputer in
| my pocket allows me to stay in touch with anyone that I
| want, and when I go to the doctor, I probably won't see
| people in iron lungs anymore. I can travel to anywhere in
| the world for ridiculously low prices, and if I don't speak
| the language, a live translation app will do the work for
| me.
|
| No, it's not all sunshine and roses, and people are right
| to call out issues with the current state of the world
| because things are NOT alright. But it's not like things
| were sunshine and roses for our grandparents generation
| either.
| tossandthrow wrote:
| the point is that what you see as the roses and sunshine
| of your generation is increasingly seen as the "missile
| crisis" of our generation.
|
| on top of that you have skyrocketing real estate prices.
| skulk wrote:
| > I also have access to an unprecedented amount of free
| entertainment, free knowledge, the cheap supercomputer in
| my pocket allows me to stay in touch with anyone that I
| want, and when I go to the doctor, I probably won't see
| people in iron lungs anymore. I can travel to anywhere in
| the world for ridiculously low prices, and if I don't
| speak the language, a live translation app will do the
| work for me.
|
| All built on a global underclass that will never
| experience these things. All built on processes with
| unsustainable emissions that will cause horrible
| calamities in the future (and even now). This isn't good.
| onion2k wrote:
| I wonder how many people would happily trade access to the
| web for a world where a laundry truck driver can afford a
| house. I imagine it's quite a lot.
| TimTheTinker wrote:
| I certainly would. And I'm on my second house.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I think the more interesting question would be, who is
| willing to trade peace for that? I think that it would be
| far harder to accept being shot at on the warfront than a
| world with no Internet.
| navane wrote:
| He wasn't serving in war, he was deployed in Germany in 49.
| dewey wrote:
| True, I misremembered that, but it's also not the main
| point.
| fennecbutt wrote:
| That's besides the point. Their dialogue is about how for all
| our efforts, the rich have only gotten richer and future
| generations are left in the dirt.
|
| If medical care and peacetime and technology has progressed
| so much, why hasn't general living circumstances and wealth
| equity?
| dewey wrote:
| General living circumstances have improved a lot for a lot
| of countries though. Just look at some of the charts on:
| https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-
| condit...
| listenallyall wrote:
| Given the age and location of that house, are you confident it
| had indoor plumbing?
| romanovcode wrote:
| I think the land is what's important, not the house
| twojobsoneboss wrote:
| Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all
| https://redf.in/tmYs3p
| whycombagator wrote:
| Only triple the price of what it sold for in 2017 (126k)
| fennecbutt wrote:
| And worldwide wages have stagnated over time. Older
| generations only see that we get paid double or triple
| "what they earned" but ignore that cost of living has
| exploded many times more than that. Because they're the
| ones happy to sell houses for a healthy profit.
| all2 wrote:
| Don't blame the home owners for taking advantage of state
| sponsored real estate speculation. The only reason they
| are able to sell at 3x is because someone cut a
| speculator an easy loan. This is a feature of any system
| that allows loans against real estate.
| tossandthrow wrote:
| det think you'd be able to drive a truck and buy your first
| house today also.
|
| No, that house is not going to be in Palo alto, and it is not
| going to be newly renovated.
|
| His house probably wasn't either.
|
| i think this sentiment stems from an at core inflated
| expectation to life.
|
| I know of plenty of out if the city places where housing prices
| hasn't changed over the previous 15 years and where you
| probably would be able to find subsistence to pay you mortgage
| and get food on the table.
| wenebego wrote:
| Lmao at everyone else coping about how the housing crisis is
| really not that bad
| briHass wrote:
| You might have missed that the story is about a man that
| owned a house in rural North Carolina, where, like many rural
| areas in the US, it's still possible to purchase houses for
| 200-300k.
|
| Living in a dense, urban environment close to all the
| expensive 'luxuries' is exactly the type of life eschewed by
| the subject of the story.
| vjk800 wrote:
| Fruitland, North Carolina has population of about 2000.
| Something tells me you too can buy a house while driving a
| laundry truck if you're willing to move to Fruitland.
| dgfitz wrote:
| You're very wrong. Do a search before you pop off in such a
| self righteous manner.
|
| https://www.redfin.com/city/32644/NC/Fruitland
| tirthvora wrote:
| Wow! Really moved me. I live in a metro city, and whenever I go
| back to my village, I envy their lives. It's just them and their
| families. Small World, but it still has adventures, and most
| importantly, peace.
|
| A heart-warming Obituary!
| ornornor wrote:
| Nice read, thank you.
|
| > Ray Harrell after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride,
| Grace, snapped the photo outside their first house.
|
| Ah the days when you could be a delivery truck driver and buy a
| house... Not so much for us anymore.
| alfagre wrote:
| Not in central SF, no. But in the rural midwest you definitely
| can. Just like that dude.
| woutersf wrote:
| Yep and they did not have insulation obligations and what
| not. A house was much simpler back then too (i think).
| European here so i could be biased.
| twojobsoneboss wrote:
| Near Fruitland NC for 365k. Not too bad at all
| https://redf.in/tmYs3p
| fennecbutt wrote:
| I'm not American but I can do this rough: median salary PC
| Henderson county 37,457 (2022) after taxes $30,858. Mortgage
| rates seem to be about 8% for 30y fix atm so that's 36,500
| deposit with $2017 monthly payment, but at least that's $0
| fees.
|
| At $2571 in pocket per month it'll take a while to save that
| deposit when median rent in that location is apparently $1500
| for an apartment,let alone the fact you'll need a car and all
| your other bills (medical insurance in America I guess).
|
| Then you'll have $500 left over after paying your mortgage
| every month. Somehow I don't think that's liveable.
|
| Not everyone can crash with their parents while they save a
| deposit. Not everyone has a partner that works too. Some
| people have or want to have children. Not everyone works in
| tech, but boy am I glad I do...least until the machines take
| over.
| orthoxerox wrote:
| You could still buy one if they still built 70m2 houses:
|
| 9m2 kitchen 15m2 sitting room 3 _9m2 bedrooms 2_ 4m2 bathrooms
| 6m2 mud room 5m2 of various storage
|
| But why buy/build one if mortgages are cheap?
| ttiurani wrote:
| > All around us are these lives -- heads down and arms open --
| that ignore the siren call of flashy American individualism, of
| bright lights and center stage. I'm fine right here is the
| response from the edge of the room, and that contentment is
| downright subversive. How could you want only that? the world
| demands. There's more to have, always more.
|
| Beautiful writing, and I feel this part especially elevates it.
|
| Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and celebrate
| these people who know when they have enough for a good life. Who
| can stop craving more fame, wealth and possession, and just
| appreciate what they have. Because only by doing so, can we leave
| enough resources for others, near or far, now and in the future,
| to have the same.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| That part caught my attention as well. There's a danger in the
| seductive whisper of "you need more". Whether it's material
| goods, power, fame, or whatever else, pursuing external things
| like these is a hole which can never be filled. It seems to me
| that true happiness is to be found inward. If you can learn to
| find happiness where you are right now, then you can have a
| good life regardless of your external circumstances.
|
| I had two really powerful insights when I was a teenager. The
| first was when I got a Christmas gift I really wanted (a
| walkman iirc), and it struck me that actually having it didn't
| fulfill me nearly as much as I had thought it would. The other
| was when my grandpa died, and I would have given anything to
| have him back (and I still would). These two experiences made
| me realize that _stuff_ is hollow and unimportant, and what
| _truly_ matters in this world are people. Being with the people
| you love is the greatest thing we can have, and unlike material
| possessions can never be replaced once it 's gone.
|
| I think that a simple life is far underrated. If all I ever do
| is spend time with my family and friends, and make the world
| around me just a bit better in some small way, I feel like
| that's enough.
| alfagre wrote:
| > Going forward, we collectively need to recognize and
| celebrate these people who know when they have enough for a
| good life.
|
| I see where you are coming from, but that's exactly missing the
| point. The article is about somebody who wouldn't have _wanted_
| to be celebrated by you. Who just wanted to live his life, out
| of the spotlight. By elevating him and his live to celebration
| status, that 's the oppposite of what he would have wanted.
| Recognize, sure. A nod in passing, then move on.
| jddj wrote:
| Telling though, isn't it.
|
| The collective addiction to celebrity shows up even in a
| context like this one.
| ttiurani wrote:
| Indeed, this is a vexing problem.
|
| Role models influence so much of peoples' behavior, that I
| fear they are needed to change what is considered success.
| But the people suited to be role models rarely want to be.
|
| I don't know the answer, but hope some of these kinds of
| people would allow themselves to be (reluctantly) also
| celebrated.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| > the world demands. There's more to have, always more.
|
| is it really the world? or is it the ad industry? the social
| media algorithms?
|
| bet if we shutdown the ad industry and accept only sorted by
| date for social media the world will quiet down tremendously
| zilti wrote:
| It wasn't really that different in that regard before social
| media, you know.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| The uptick in teenage self-harm and suicides says
| otherwise.
|
| Of course it was different, people in 1940 and 1950 were
| not doomscrolling endlessly throughout the day while
| algorithms enmeshed them in self-contained bubbles and
| bombard them with personalized ads, no, they were listening
| to radio, read newspapers, talked in person more. Social
| media is a new and never seen before phenomenon, with its
| own advantages and disadvantages.
| mtlguitarist wrote:
| I think there's a bif citation needed on whether social
| media influences anxiety and depression in younger
| people. It's a nice scapegoat, but the world is harder
| and more competitive than it's ever been. I can't work in
| a textile mill and become a union president and support a
| family. The job doesn't exist anymore, and even if it did
| it wouldn't pay enough to achieve those coveted
| milestones of a "quiet life."
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| The discussion on the impact of social media rages on:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39983233
|
| Is the world harder? Or we're relentlessly told that's
| harder? And can we actual tell the difference?
| szundi wrote:
| There can be other reasons too coinciding in time.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Nobody is saying that social media hasn't had any effect
| on the world, just that the human desire for more worldly
| things wasn't caused by it. The expression "keeping up
| with the Joneses" far, far predates social media.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| The difference is that before social media, the Jones
| were your neighbors -- your immediate, face to face, irl
| tribe. Social media makes everyone on planet Earth the
| Jones (more or less). And, let's not forget, there were
| no algorithms in old times, there were no bubbles created
| by those algorithms, there was no 24/7 constant scrolling
| (more or less)... These all matter, they all have an
| effect on the brain and on the mind.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I agree that's a difference, I simply don't agree with
| your original hypothesis. The constant hunger for more
| and more worldly things isn't going to go away, or even
| get significantly better, if we erase advertising and
| social media from the world.
| GeoAtreides wrote:
| If advertising doesn't induce demand, then what does it
| do?
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I'm of the firm opinion that advertising is snake oil.
| But even if you do believe that advertising causes
| demand, it doesn't follow that we would see a significant
| decrease in demand if advertising was gone. If
| advertising hypothetically increases demand by 5%, that's
| not going to make that much of a difference when it's
| gone.
| kmarc wrote:
| Dunno, I don't use social media, neither see ads (adblock),
| but the older I get, the more I want to explore, learn about
| history, travel to places.
|
| I agree with the sentiment (social media / ad algorithms
| influencing the... influenceables), but I have also met
| people who are outside these bubbles. Granted they are the
| bit older folks, pre-smarthpone people, mostly retirees.
| alt227 wrote:
| Ads and social media are not the reason that humans have
| climbed mountains or sailed unmapped seas for centuries. They
| are not the reason captain Scott died on a polar expedition.
|
| Seeking fame and fortune is baked into the human condition,
| all the way back to hierarchy in tribes.
| taco-hands wrote:
| This made me think of Ralph Waldo Emerson's poem "What is
| success": To laugh often and much; To win the respect of
| intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the
| approbation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false
| friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others; To
| give of one's self; To leave the world a bit better, whether by
| a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social
| condition; To have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung
| with exultation; To know even one life has breathed easier
| because you have lived - This is to have succeeded.
| miramba wrote:
| That was beautiful and inspiring.
| beryilma wrote:
| When I was a college student some 30 years ago, this poem was
| in my physics textbook. I made a hand-written copy of it to
| carry in my wallet because I loved it so much. I always
| thought that the book's author wrote it. This brought back
| the same feelings I had then after reading the poem.
| Thanks...
| netsharc wrote:
| > To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy
| child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition
|
| Damn, that reminds me of the last part of the movie Living...
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2L8CP31-14
| aconsult1 wrote:
| Beautiful indeed. It still baffles me how some people have a
| such gift with words. They can tell stories and make you have
| feelings, just magical. I know it's a lot of hard work to write
| like this.
|
| I can write code alright, but I couldn't write words like the
| author, even if I practice for 100 years.
|
| It has to be a gift.
| itisit wrote:
| There's a charm to treating talent as some elusive gift
| bestowed on others. It elevates the mystery and power of
| what's written; you can really get lost in the flow of words.
| But rest assured, you too given enough reading, writing, and
| collaboration can write just the same as the author. It's not
| magic.
| dzink wrote:
| The world is driven by Envy, not Greed. Everyone needs
| something to look forward to. The stoic find it in the act of
| showing their kids something new, or the joy of planting a
| plant and waiting to see how it comes out. But if you think
| you've been deprived of something (money, attention, novelty,
| experiences, career progression) then you can be wound up like
| a spring in childhood / early career and overcompensate. You
| find out eventually, when you've burned your time, heart,
| energy, money, what truly matters to you. And then you may
| hopefully get more of it to look forward to. Have you noticed
| that after having 7 kids even Elon Musk started spending more
| time with at least one of them - by being more of a caregiver
| than an absentee famous father.
| fallous wrote:
| There is an admirable maturity and wisdom in understanding the
| scope of your life and what is important, and working to make the
| world as you wish it to be within those confines. Too often we
| aggrandize ourselves by spending time worrying about the problems
| of the world far beyond our control and do not try and address
| them in the realms in which we do have some sway.
| remoquete wrote:
| Beautifully written. For some reason, Beatles' Eleanor Rigby
| sounded in my head while I was reading this...
|
| "All the lonely people
|
| Where do they all come from?
|
| All the lonely people
|
| Where do they all belong?"
| zorrolovsky wrote:
| Beautiful writing. It comes at an interesting time for me.
|
| I'm in a full blown mid-life crisis where my state of mind
| fluctuates between full contentment and wishing I was doing more
| with life. This article made me think.
|
| On the one hand, I'm content because I come from an unprivileged
| background. My family was abusive. Me and my brothers struggled
| with mental health. We ran away from home as soon as we could.
| Where I was born there were not any decent jobs, so the future
| was bleak.
|
| Today, I have a decently-paid job in tech, good life/work
| balance, a nice clean house, and self-caring habits. I have a
| great mental and physical health, good relationships and a decent
| financial position. I traveled the world and had incredible
| experiences. I've got everything I dreamed about when I struggled
| mentally, physically and financially.
|
| On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a place
| where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy what I've
| got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while but then one
| day I resent being too complacent. I want to do more. Launch
| projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The voice of
| ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking like a 80 year
| old, move your ass and live more life"
|
| Still working to find that fine balance between contentment and
| ambition. As a human I'm skeptic I will find the right answer. We
| tend to work in cycles/moods...
| The_Colonel wrote:
| > I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live
| more experiences.
|
| The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a
| richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources.
| There's so much personal development you can do without
| participating in the materialistic rat race.
| amarcheschi wrote:
| As a young cs students where even the uni professors tell us
| there's more about it than just money, what would you say is
| something regarding personal development to do?
| orthoxerox wrote:
| Get a hobby that you can do outdoors with other people.
| Hiking, hunting, paddling, sailing, bouldering,
| volunteering, playing sports, LARPing, reenacting...
|
| Embed yourself into the local community, become a pillar of
| it.
|
| Start a family and support your children, don't try to
| mould them into what you wish you could have been.
| elros wrote:
| Learning things for fun and not just for profit. Physical
| development, learning a new sport. Spiritual development,
| meditating, observing. Engaging in arts, creating,
| exploring. Helping the less fortunate, volunteering,
| teaching. Traveling, learning about different cultures,
| different languages. Cooking. Spending time in nature,
| watching animals, birds, mushrooms, sunsets. Photography.
| These are just some examples, the list is endless :-)
|
| Personally I've grown a lot from gardening and
| weightlifting. Having children made me more human.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| During my late 20s I realised I was very good at my
| programming job but not much use at anything else. It was
| quite a disappointing realisation.
|
| I started to do less and eventually no programming outside
| of office hours and instead invest my spare time in
| different hobbies and experiences.
|
| I found gaining these new skills really helped build my
| confidence. 15 years later I'm not just a programmer, I'm a
| also a motorcyclist, experienced carpenter, been a member
| of certain meet up groups for over a decade, travelled to a
| few exotic locations, flown upside down in a plane, the
| list goes on.
|
| None of these things are exceptional but doing this extra
| stuff has given me enough dimensions that I kind of feel
| comfortable with the way I've done the last 15 years. This
| along with starting a relationship and building a family is
| enough for me now.
|
| Sure, I could have done more but compared to the corporate
| quagmire of my 20s things are very different.
| sebastiansm wrote:
| Programmers and wood. Best friends forever.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| Indeed, it's almost a cliche.
|
| I believe it satisfies some sort of primeval urge
| magnified by sitting in front of a screen for decades.
| xvilka wrote:
| I would disagree. If you think only about yourself - yes,
| it's not about the money. But if you want make life of your
| children, grandchildren, etc better, the only answer is
| money, building generational wealth.
| soufron wrote:
| Absolutely not. Children and grandchildren are their own
| persons. The world is full of people who got rich through
| heritage and who live miserable lives - even when being
| materially fulfilled.
|
| I would add that this state of mind denotes a
| characteristic control anguish.
|
| When you're dead, you're dead. You need to let go.
| xvilka wrote:
| Of course it doesn't guarantee the success, but it helps
| a lot.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Depends on the definition of "success". If it's about
| raising good people, with decent values and a drive to
| make the world better, a fat inheritance is probably not
| a good predictor.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Very nearly without exception children who come from
| backgrounds of generational wealth are terrible people,
| in my experience.
| vasco wrote:
| You can work a whole life for generation wealth only to
| have your kid spend it all in one month as soon as you die.
| Or to waste away not doing anything while receiving monthly
| from a trust fund.
|
| Everyone decides what their life to be about, but I'd
| reflect on leaving too much of your life's meaning to "kick
| in" only when you're dead. If your whole purpose is to "set
| your family up forever", a lot of that is out of your
| control. Whereas if your purpose is to hang out have fun
| and support each other's goals, usually you can do that
| right away
| robocat wrote:
| The obituary does not show Ray had any modern obsession
| with money - the article does allude to a couple of Ray's
| jobs. "We've had a good life," he said to
| me nearly every time I visited in his final year, and I
| knew it to be true even if it might have seemed odd from a
| distance. On paper, this small life above Clear Creek
| should have left a long list of regrets, of what ifs. But
| this life was the life, the very thing he and my
| grandmother Grace set out to make when they married in the
| little church up the road in 1954. The best time
| of his life was when his girls were little, Ray said as he
| neared the end. He and Grace raised two daughters: Joy
| (pictured left) and Debbie.
|
| The modern disease of setting money as a primary goal is
| missing the point of life. We use money for the things we
| want. Concentrate on the wants and consider _why_ you want
| those things. Keep your eye on the ball.
|
| > generational wealth.
|
| What do your kids want that means they need your money? To
| go to university and join the same treadmill as you?
| Personally I wanted to earn my own way in life - I didn't
| want to live off my parents (although I probably could
| have). Independence is another modern goal. I have retired
| early, but money in itself brings many many unobvious
| problems. It doesn't magically give me an obviously better
| life than my friends (who are on a _very_ wide range of
| incomes).
|
| We are all given approximately 70 years - be very very
| careful how you spend yours. Perhaps listen to a few good
| people that have spent more of their 70 years than you
| have, and learn what they have learned over time.
| dakiol wrote:
| > There's so much personal development you can do without
| participating in the materialistic rat race.
|
| That takes money, although in a different form: time. I can
| only enjoy those experiences if I have time for them (and I'm
| not talking about enjoying them after working 8h during the
| day, because I end up exhausted and cannot enjoy anything at
| all). So, in order to enjoy things I need to work less, which
| means less money. That's the price. It's always money
| goodpoint wrote:
| > That takes money, although in a different form: time
|
| > That's the price. It's always money
|
| Tell that to unemployed people. To children. To retired
| people. To people with serious sickness.
|
| Time is not money.
| dartos wrote:
| It isn't, but it has similar uses.
|
| With more money you have more time.
|
| not needing to wait in line at a check cashing or payday
| loan office, not needing to wait in the ER because you
| can't afford primary care, not needing to get your car
| fixed every year because you can afford one with fewer
| miles.
|
| There's a lot of hidden time costs if you're not well
| off.
| magicpin wrote:
| Hell just the time sink of using a laundromat with
| defective machines vs filling up your own machine and
| moving over loads when it's convenient for you
| goodpoint wrote:
| > There's a lot of hidden time costs if you're not well
| off.
|
| Of course and that's my point.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| This is true for almost all of us though? Nearly everyone
| has to work at least 5x 8 hour days a week - some much
| more. Some have complex family needs that must be attended
| to before any personal time can even be considered.
|
| There is always some time though, it just needs to be made
| and scheduled and worked on. We can choose to veg out in
| front of Netflix, or doom scroll, or peruse hacker news,
| but we can also choose to do something else possibly more
| fulfilling.
|
| Of course not as good as having more disposable money and
| fewer work commitments but painting it as an all or nothing
| situation feels very defeatist.
| vundercind wrote:
| Staring at screens all day is _weirdly_ taxing.
|
| My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social,
| active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of
| prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive
| environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming
| computer-heavy office job.
|
| After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, " _Now_ I
| understand why you're so worn-out after work hours"
|
| I've felt a lot more refreshed and ready to do stuff
| after working physical jobs or (especially) lightly-
| physical jobs that involve little or no computer use,
| than after a day of cushy office work.
|
| It's not the sitting. Standing desks and walking breaks
| don't help much. Computer work is just bizarrely
| draining.
| hesviiggvv wrote:
| Computer work is so far outside the realm of what we as
| humans have been doing as "work" since the dawn of time.
| I wonder how significant that is? Could we be
| evolutionarily or culturally ill-suited to working this
| way?
| lumost wrote:
| I spent many years feeling guilty about this.
| Particularly during covid when, on paper, there wasn't a
| lot else going on.
|
| Anecdotally, the thing to remember is that you brain is
| an organ - Even professional trainers can't do their
| workouts more then 3-4 hours a day. Why would one expect
| that the brain can magically _work_ 8-10 hours at max
| intensity?
|
| If you observe any job, workers have downtime - in the
| office, this would happen organically. Teams would get
| bored and chit chat, hallway conversations would go on
| too long etc.
|
| With WFH - it's entirely possible to _work_ 8-12 hours a
| day. This is the mental equivalent of endurance racing,
| burnout is inevitable at this pace - just like injury
| would be for athletes trying to train at that schedule.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I wonder if it's to do with always focusing on the same
| distance. When doing a job where you're walking, your
| eyes are constantly focusing at different distances and
| taking in lots of information that's more rich than any
| website can give you.
|
| Maybe constant screen time just tells your body "hey you
| can relax, nothing is around to attack you"
| hollerith wrote:
| Why would "hey you can relax, nothing is around to attack
| you" wear you out?
| polishdude20 wrote:
| It signals to your body that you can sleep? So you stop
| producing whatever it is that makes you alert, attentive,
| energized.
| hollerith wrote:
| Sure, but if I slept or rested during working hours, I'd
| be _more_ energetic in after working hours, not less.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| That's the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on
| a farm, and as you might imagine it involved hard
| physical labor daily. I would 100x rather do my current
| job as a systems engineer. It's so much easier than
| working on the farm that I feel guilty sometimes, because
| I know that I work 1/10 as hard as people making 1/5 of
| what I do.
| hereonout2 wrote:
| I just paid to get my lawn cleared for a new patio. A guy
| single handedly shovelled 8 tonnes of clay soil into a
| skip over two days.
|
| He charged much less than I earned in the same two days
| configuring AWS lambda functions. It's hard to imagine I
| had the more exhausting job.
| kbenson wrote:
| They're not saying it's harder, just that it leaves you
| not wanting to do other things when you're done, and in a
| way that doesn't map to traditional physical fatigue,
| which is why it's "weirdly" taxing and not just taxing.
|
| Mental and emotional fatigue accrue and exhibit
| themselves differently sometimes, but often matter quite
| a bit in the end. Plenty of people choose to leave well
| paid office jobs for more physical jobs that pay less.
| Unless you think they have a mental illness or are
| stupid, presumably they did it for a good reason.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| I realize what they're saying. I'm saying I don't have
| the same experience.
| mlyle wrote:
| It depends upon the person and the exact situation, but
| it's a fundamentally different kind of tired. My students
| marvel at this.
|
| They can tinker with mechanical things for a 12 hour
| crunch session before a robotics competition, and end up
| achy, hangry, and physically tired. But it might not be
| as exhausting as as an intense 1.5 hour math class or
| chasing a bug staring at screens for a couple of hours.
| krumpet wrote:
| I used to be a high school teacher and, though not as
| physically taxing as working on a farm, I feel the same
| about how much easier my current tech job is.
|
| Teaching is just sooooo exhausting.
| blackSnake wrote:
| I've noticed that too. Its an unnatural thing for the
| body to do, interacting with a computer or other digital
| device for that length of time. I've never walked away
| from using the computer feeling charged and rejuvenated,
| even when working on something I enjoy. Not mentally, I
| am referring to a whole body feeling.
|
| I believe the vibrations emanating from digital devices
| is partly incompatible with human biology, so the body
| spends significant energy trying to maintain its default
| "state" so to speak, which is why it feels draining to
| use computer for long stretches of time. If you read a
| book for hours on end, it would not have the same effect
| so its not purely the sedentary nature of it.
|
| In qi-gong practice, there is a concept known as
| "drawing" where you can increase your strength and
| vitality from being in proximity to different objects.
| For example, if I put you in a room full of plants and
| natural sunlight, you WILL become physically stronger
| instantly. If I put you in a server computer room, you
| will become physically weaker instantly. The body is
| constantly adjusting its "aura".
|
| I don't know the science behind it, but it is easy to
| experiment with. Have someone resist a push while in a
| wide stance while holding in their left hand
|
| 1. a phone in their hand turned on
|
| 2. hold a living plant
|
| 3. glass of water
|
| 4. a battery
|
| See if you can feel the difference in your ability to
| resist the push. It will change based on the object in
| your hand.
|
| There is some challenges:
|
| 1. the pusher has to have correct form and measured
| strength. By correct form, it means you know how to
| correctly use your body to create an effective push
| (standing too close to not engage your legs, only using
| your arms to push, etc) Measured strength means similar
| force each time to have a base to compare to.
|
| 2. the pushee has to maintain a "neutral" state and
| provide the same amount of resistance on every push, to
| maintain the "control" group.
|
| 3. enough sensitivity as the pusher to feel the different
| levels of resistance provided by the pushee. On some
| pushes, the pushee might feel "heavier" or "lighter"
|
| 4. Patience. Whatever object you are holding has an
| effect on your body and most people cannot feel it
| initially. In fact, it takes years to cultivate enough
| sensitivity to feel subtle changes.
|
| I think there has been some research on this topic in
| regards to wearing synthetic clothing made of nylon or
| polyester.
| beryilma wrote:
| This is absolute nonsense.
|
| Plants, nature, etc. will for sure make people feel
| better compared to sitting in front of a computer. They
| will not make you instantly stronger or weaker... I
| guarantee that no double-blind experiment will ever show
| such effects.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Well, not entirely. What you hold subtly affects your
| response to a push, and the effect can be dramatic. The
| pusher, with eyes closed, will notice the difference.
| afpx wrote:
| In 1999, I started my first job out of college with a
| salary of $30,000 per year. I spent most of the day coding
| in a cubicle. It was analytically satisfying but not what I
| truly wanted to do. It was also quite stressful, and the
| hours were long. I had chosen computer science because I
| was moderately good at it, and I hoped it would help me pay
| off my $50,000 in college loans.
|
| In my first week of work, I realized I needed to find a way
| out. I had a hunch that the path I was on would not end
| well. I found an online group of people with similar
| thoughts. They were into "simple living," inspired by a
| book called "Your Money or Your Life." After reading it, I
| created a spreadsheet and started plotting numbers. I
| calculated that by continuously reducing my expenses and
| saving everything beyond a minimal lifestyle, and investing
| it in index funds, I could reach a point where my
| investments matched my spending.
|
| For the next 25 years, I kept reducing my spending and
| invested the surplus into the S&P 500. At the time, that
| was considered a very aggressive move, as a more
| conservative strategy was recommended. But, I decided to
| give it a try. I forwent a consumer lifestyle. I didn't
| travel much and spent most of my free time reading. When I
| eventually started a family, I devoted time to them. I had
| to put on blinders, though. The cars, houses, lavish
| vacations, fancy dining, clothes, gadgets--I ignored all
| that. I bought houses in the poorest neighborhoods and
| fixed them up. I drove the cheapest cars that were
| reliable. I adopted a simple wardrobe. I bought second
| hand. I figured out how to make nutritious, delicious meals
| from the least expensive ingredients. Often, I felt like I
| was missing out compared to my peers, especially as wages
| in the industry grew. But, I endured and stuck to the plan.
|
| These days, this movement seems to have evolved into FI/RE.
| Although it's not quite the same, it probably has similar
| goals.
|
| I saw a few people make huge payoffs from startups and
| IPOs, so I tried that too. But it was terrible for my
| mental health, and I quickly learned that the board and the
| CEO were not on the side of the common worker--they had no
| intention of sharing their payouts. I worked for four
| failed startups with some more steady work in between. In
| hindsight, I don't recommend it. It wasn't worth it. I made
| less money than my peers, and I put too much of myself into
| the products I helped build. In the end, only those with
| money made more money. The rest of us got shafted.
|
| But the moral of the story is, if you have 25 years, you
| might also be able to do it. Times have changed, though.
| But there's still probably an intersection point. The
| opportunities are greater than they ever have been. Given
| today's wages, I could have probably reached my goals 10
| years earlier.
|
| The transition to retiring early wasn't without its pains.
| I hadn't fully envisioned a future, and when I finally met
| my goals, I realized time had changed. In the years that
| followed, I experienced significant anguish because the
| dreams I once had (becoming an artist, going into academia)
| were no longer realistic. I needed over two years just to
| recover from burnout. But now, I'm finally somewhat
| satisfied but still quite lost and with anxiety. But, I
| feel the best I've felt since my 20s, and things get better
| every day.
| Archelaos wrote:
| > it would help me pay off my $50,000 in college loans
|
| If you have teenagers who want to go to university,
| consider encouraging them to learn German and then study
| in Germany. In 2021, the average monthly spendings of a
| student at a German public university were between 783 -
| 1.896 EUR, depending on the location.[1] (University fees
| are included in this number and range between 14 and 136
| EUR per month. Sometimes there apply moderate additional
| fees for non-EU students, depending on their
| nationality.) Non-EU students are at least eledgible for
| working at the university as research assistants and
| thus, if they are clever, can earn an income to cover
| some of these costs.
|
| [1] Source: https://www.studis-online.de/studienkosten/
| (in German)
| tycho-newman wrote:
| German schools also ruthlessly cull students beginning in
| grade 4 or 5. Only a small number ever get the
| opportunity to go to university at all, let alone at
| those fees.
|
| German universities are relatively cheap because they
| keep the eligibility pool small. That reduces the cost to
| the state.
| Archelaos wrote:
| > Only a small number ever get the opportunity to go to
| university at all
|
| In 2022, 56.4% of people living in Germany of a yearly
| cohort started university (including universities of
| higher education/Fachhochschule). 51.7% of males, 61.5%
| of females. 473,665 people (this number includes some
| foreign students, though) out of a population of aprox.
| 84 million. All in all, 2,915,700 people studied in
| Germany. I would not call that number "small".
|
| The student quotient for the US is somewhat higher, but
| German and foreign systems are often not well comparable,
| because there are a lot of advanced vocational training
| programs in Germany outside of university that are
| equivalent or even better than many university programs
| in other countries.
|
| [1] Source:
| https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-
| Umwelt/Bildun...
| vondur wrote:
| Here's the stats for California (population 39 million):
|
| California has the highest number of college students in
| the United States, with 2.58 million enrolled in 2023.
| mlyle wrote:
| It kind of comes down to money, but...
|
| My wife and I work as teachers now after successful paths
| in tech. I do some consulting, choosing the most
| interesting problems instead of money.
|
| We seek fulfillment and meaning and personal growth instead
| of papering over suck buying nice things.
|
| Of course, having a big pile of capital as a backup makes
| this a lot safer to do.
| jwells89 wrote:
| This exactly. I'd love to not have to work for a living so
| I could spend my days tinkering on projects, drawing,
| learning an instrument, etc. There's so much to learn and
| resources to do so have never been more abundant or readily
| available. There's enough to keep a person busy for several
| lifetimes.
|
| But that requires money. A lot of it, if that's what I want
| to do from today in my mid-30s onward.
|
| I'm already doing some of this in my spare time and I'm
| grateful for the ability and opportunity to do so -- having
| come from a poor background it's absolutely not taken for
| granted -- but having to work to live means everything else
| is pushed off into the margins with whatever energy and
| passion is leftover. I want to be able to get obsessed with
| and lost in whatever I'm pursuing like I did as a teenager,
| and that's not feasible as long as a job is commanding most
| of my waking productive hours.
| felipefar wrote:
| > The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a
| richer life means earning/spending a lot of money /
| reaources. There's so much personal development you can do
| without participating in the materialistic rat race.
|
| If you launch projects to gain fame, sure it is
| materialistic. But you can work on projects that help you
| understand things better, or to build the personality you
| want to have, both of which are the opposite of materialism.
|
| They aren't egoistic as well, because you can then share your
| solutions with others, which are also going to benefit from
| it.
| krumpet wrote:
| This is my focus. Though admittedly selfish, I'm spending
| time learning more songs on the guitar, improving my cooking
| skills, mastering a new language, etc. Once our children are
| out of the house, I plan to also become more involved in
| supporting our community.
|
| It took time to understand that my time is better spent
| supporting our kids' activities and maintaining an organized
| home than chasing another promotion.
| famahar wrote:
| Have you considered getting into art? I find art projects to be
| big motivator and fills me with ambition. The great thing is I
| do it for myself so I can feel content knowing I don't need to
| fulfill the needs of an audience. You can be ambitious as you
| want. Making concrete sculptures, woodworking,oil painting,
| restoring old furniture, developing a game (physical or
| digital), writing short stories, researching and writing a book
| or zine on a random niche subject. I find that making art fills
| that hole that exists when I'm not doing much in life.
| padraigf wrote:
| I just got a new book on this subject: Midlife: A Philosophical
| Guide, by Kieran Setiya (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Midlife-
| Philosophical-Guide-Kieran-...). Not got too far into it, but I
| like it so far.
| herodoturtle wrote:
| Thanks for sharing, and congratulations on your achievements
| (especially considering your beginnings).
|
| You and I are of similar age, and have a similar backstory, so
| if I may, I'd like to suggest the following:
|
| Help others.
|
| For me my midlife crisis was quickly eradicated when I turned
| my surplus time and resources to assisting the needy through
| volunteer work.
|
| I hope this resonates with you - it was a significantly
| positive turning point in my life, which gave me a great deal
| of perspective and gratitude.
| goodpoint wrote:
| > Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.
|
| Pick one.
|
| The "grind" mindset about money for the sake of money is the
| opposite of personal growth.
| cik wrote:
| I completely relate to this. At 41 years old, I met my life's
| goal, a goal I never thought I would attain (and it's not
| wealth). Rather than be empowering and celebratory, that turned
| out to be debilitating, taking me years, until I found a new
| path. I'm still starting down that path, but at least now I
| have a goal that will take me 20-25 more years.
|
| People will tell you to focus on you. People will tell you to
| focus on money. People will tell you to focus on neither. The
| reality is that what motivates you, gives you meaning, and
| continues to propel you might change. There's no right answer,
| and that's healthy. The process, I think is the important part,
| no matter how painful that may be.
| slaucon wrote:
| what's the new goal?
| zikduruqe wrote:
| "A young boy became a monk. He dreamed of enlightenment and of
| learning great things. When he got to the monastery he was told
| that each morning he had to chop wood for the monks fires and
| then carry water up to the monastery for ablutions and the
| kitchen. He attended prayers and meditation, but the teaching
| he was given was rather sparse.
|
| One day he was told to take some tea to the Abbot in his
| chambers. He did so and the Abbot saw he looked sad and asked
| him why.
|
| He replied every day all I do is chop wood and carry water. I
| want to learn. I want to understand things. I want to be great
| one day, like you.
|
| The Abbot gestured to the scrolls on shelves lining the walls.
| He said, 'When I started I was like you. Every day I would chop
| wood and carry water. Like you I understood that someone had to
| do these things, but like you I wanted to move forward.
| Eventually I did. I read all of the scrolls, I met with Kings
| and and gave council. I became the Abbot. Now, I understand
| that the key to everything is that everything is chopping wood
| and carrying water, and that if one does everything mindfully
| then it is all the same.'" [1]
|
| Keep chopping wood and carrying water.
|
| [1] - https://www.sloww.co/enlightenment-chop-wood-carry-water/
| keiferski wrote:
| I'm not an expert on Buddhism but this anecdote/story has
| never been particularly insightful to me. One criticism I
| have is that it treats Enlightenment/knowledge etc. as a
| single transferable piece of knowledge, and seems to not
| notice the impact of process and undergoing the ritual. "The
| journey is the destination" and so forth.
|
| Chopping wood and carrying water may be the answer, but you
| might not realize the significance of that answer without
| deeply probing the question.
| jungturk wrote:
| Right - in that story that requisite process has slunk into
| the background - that "everything is chopping wood" means
| something quite different to someone who has read all the
| scrolls, and counseled all the kings, and attained the role
| of Abbot.
|
| The fact about wood-chopping is the product of
| enlightenment, not the cause of it.
| akomtu wrote:
| The word "mindfully" at the end carries too much meaning
| that can't be unpacked without reading a bunch of books.
| This story looks identical to many stories told in the
| dzogchen branch of buddhism. The basic idea is that normal
| life is full of earthly activities: chopping woods and
| carrying water. An average mind gets distracted by those
| activities and is dragged passively from one distraction to
| another. An enlightened mind watches these earthly
| activities with full attention, like you would watch
| colorful butterflies, but is not carried away from deep
| realisation that these butterflies come and go as simple
| decorations of the neutral state of mind, which is often
| called "emptiness". When these two qualities meet -
| emptiness and clarity of perception - the mind enters the
| natural state and if you can stay in that state while
| chopping woods and carrying water, you're enlightened. If
| chopping woods carries you away from that natural state,
| you're said to be "distracted".
| accrual wrote:
| This was a very approachable explanation, thank you. Do
| you have any particular resources you'd recommend for
| learning more about this?
| akomtu wrote:
| "The Essence of Dzogchen in the Native Bon Tradition of
| Tibet"
| itronitron wrote:
| ... and with that the young monk became enlightened. The next
| day they chopped a little less wood and carried a little less
| water.
| eggdaft wrote:
| I've achieved everything I set out to in life, at least
| everything I have control over and set out to do when I was in
| my 20s.
|
| I've added a new ambition after some thought, not sure if I'll
| manage to squeeze it in.
|
| But I see the second half of my life now as predominantly about
| "service". I think it's important for everyone to have a life,
| to do the things they love, to follow some ambition or passion
| and take care of themselves. But we then need to ensure we help
| others do the same.
|
| So my focus now is on my parents, family members, my partner,
| and society. I'm very grateful I had the health and opportunity
| to build and see what I wanted. Now it's payback. I still do
| selfish things - I have to in order to stay sane - but the
| focus is on service.
| 616c wrote:
| I for one would like to see you write more about this.
| JackMorgan wrote:
| I feel the same. I spent the first 15 years of my career
| climbing out of poverty. Now, I've got stability, so the last
| few years I'm focusing on service towards others.
|
| I've been volunteering for the last two years as a
| firefighter, and yesterday just finished the required ride
| alongs to complete my EMT. It feels good to deeply integrate
| with my local community, caring for neighbors when they need
| help. Between emergency response and a software engineer
| apprenticeship program I run I am spending a significant
| amount of time each week on community service. I feel safer
| and more connected to my community than ever before. It's
| been amazing for my anxiety.
| grogenaut wrote:
| Very interesting. I just finished my EMT and starting OEC
| for ski patrol Monday. And interviews for volunteer EMT
| early may. Even though my grandfather was a firefighter but
| died early. I'm more interested in EMT. My dad did the
| climbing out of poverty but also died early so I don't know
| what he would have done "of service", maybe just left it to
| my mom who was a court child advocate.
|
| So far just the ride alongs (you can help a little) at
| fire, EMT, ski patrol have been great. And the training as
| well. Much more interesting and fulfilling than just
| vegging out on Netflix after a week in tech.
| consf wrote:
| > I spent the first 15 years of my career climbing out of
| poverty.
|
| I am at this stage of life's journey where I understand
| that just a little bit more and I will be able to enjoy my
| existence...
| jwoq9118 wrote:
| Same. Still climbing out. It's been a decade for me, but
| that's counting college where I was working to keep my
| family okay alongside school. Been a full time software
| engineer since 2020, still wading through debt and
| helping my family stay afloat. Reading this thread has
| done some good for my soul.
| bumby wrote:
| > _I see the second half of my life now as predominantly
| about "service"._
|
| David Brooks articulates this sentiment well in his book "The
| Second Mountain."
| FL33TW00D wrote:
| https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10378/10378-h/10378-h.htm#li...
| _wire_ wrote:
| It's at this point that you may discover you have something you
| want to give, to your family, community, yourself. Your
| prosperity is the beginning of freedom. Very lucky position.
| Also very painful when you come into contact with others
| suffering, but this must be faced. You have something to give,
| which is full of meaning.
| Hendrikto wrote:
| > I want to [...] earn more money
|
| Why? Money is a means to an end. What would that buy you, given
| that you said you achieved your goals and got everything you
| need.
|
| Do you think you will look back on your life and wish you had
| made more money? I do not.
| lettergram wrote:
| Everyone I've ever known who struggled in this manner has
| narrowed it down to lack of purpose.
|
| If you have a reason to live, it's not ambition that keeps you
| going, nor contentment. It's a reason to do something. My buddy
| finds purpose in personal improvement (working out a couple
| hours a day), I find it in shaping the future and being with my
| little ones.
|
| Traveling, luxury, comfort is not a purpose. It's fine; but
| it's not food for your soul, so to speak. One easy thing to do
| is join a community and contribute in someone (that breeds
| purpose as people rely on each other).
| javajosh wrote:
| There is a discontent that is fundamental to creation. After
| all, if what exists was enough, then why create anything? The
| wide variety of human personalities (on a long timescale) and
| moods (short timescale) is nothing less than Nature performing
| a great Search. What She is searching for is unknown, past mere
| survival. It makes sense to me to place that discontent in the
| context of a broader survival, the survival of the species,
| long-term. Something that other life cannot contemplate or work
| towards, but we can. And insofar as we are embedded in an
| ecosystem, it means protecting Life on Earth, and also
| spreading it beyond Earth. Lives well lived, quietly, like this
| man's, are both a triumph and a dead-end, simultaneously. It
| seems reasonable that a wide diversity of lives are needed and
| wanted by nature, or we wouldn't have them, and all of them are
| useful in their way.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _On the other hand, achieving all my dreams took me to a
| place where my mind says "I've done it all, let's just enjoy
| what I've got. Let's enjoy life". And that works for a while
| but then one day I resent being too complacent. I want to do
| more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences.
| The voice of ambition says: "you're 45 years old, stop thinking
| like a 80 year old, move your ass and live more life"_
|
| Is that "voice of ambition" your voice, or just what society or
| peers or media influencers (like grind vloggers) conditioned
| you to want?
| detourdog wrote:
| I know what you are saying and the best I can come up with is
| to keep the ambition but give up on the result. I find this
| keeps me actively involved in things but with no expectation on
| outcome. When things do come to fruition I find I'm pleasently
| surprised that everything came together.
| rors wrote:
| You've managed to move on from a situation where you were
| deprived of security, both with respect to love and money, to a
| new situation where you are secure at a relatively young age.
| That's a huge achievement. I would suggest first contemplating
| what you have achieved. You sound like an ambitious individual,
| and you should recognise how much you have done from a poor
| start.
|
| It's natural that the things you once craved were things that
| would lead you to achieve your goal of security. It's also
| natural that now you are secure, you no longer need money etc.
| If you're still ambitious, then you are now in the lucky
| position where you can be a bit more playful. You have bought
| yourself the opportunity to try new things, to explore your
| values. To think about what really excites you.
|
| Don't feel bad that you don't know what those are yet. You've
| gone from meeting existential needs to now thinking about
| fulfilment. What an exciting time of your life!
| karl11 wrote:
| Check out the movie "Perfect Days"
| consf wrote:
| Thank you for recommendation! That's what I was needing
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| It sounds like you need a hobby, or some kind of activity that
| isn't work or to make money. Others suggested volunteer work,
| but it could be joining a hobby community or developing a hobby
| for that matter. I have colleagues that train for big sporting
| events, know nerds that organize get-togethers for their nerdy
| activities and work on outfits, and perhaps a previous
| generation, but people would go to the pub after work to chat
| shit and watch sports. A third place, as it's also called.
|
| The article mentions a lot of family, I believe that's one
| thing my grandparents did as well; with seven kids, most of
| which who have kids of their own, that's a lot of birthday
| parties to attend.
| waihtis wrote:
| I took me a long time to realize it, but the "right" answer
| here is to focus on living one day at a time, regardless how
| far or close you're currently setting your aim towards.
| consf wrote:
| Live your life feeling the moment
| ip26 wrote:
| What is the reason you want to do more?
|
| For me, struggling and learning is what I enjoy. Within that
| framework, it's not about payout or fame, only the worthy
| challenge. As I begin to realize this about myself, I have
| become less worried about measuring achievement, which removes
| a good deal of the pressure.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I'm not the person you asked, but for me it's that I'm
| interested in solving problems. Not for money or recognition,
| but because I don't want to tolerate the problem anymore. If
| seeing it solved means doing more, then I have to do more.
| consf wrote:
| It's hard to live wothout a framework of payouts..
| pipnonsense wrote:
| I am also 45 and on a similar current situation as you
| (although I luckily come from a privileged background). One
| thing that is working a lot for me is trying to become a
| professional fiction writer.
|
| There is a lot a of ambition and uncertainty in it. I always
| enjoyed writing (whatever the context, not only fiction) and
| now I enjoy getting better at writing fiction. I enjoy being
| part of a group of other wanna-be writers with the same goals
| and challenges. I made real friends this way. I enjoy listening
| podcasts, videos, interviews from experienced authors. I am
| even enjoying more working on some software side-projects that
| are related to literature (in general or my own).
|
| At the same, there is very little chance that this endeavor
| will have any financial return. In Brazil, where I live, you
| can count in the dozens the number of writers that live solely
| from the income of book royalties and in the hundreds the
| number of writers that live from literature (royalties +
| workshops, online courses, literary services, etc).
|
| So, even some successful authors that have decent number of
| readers (for Brazil's context) and some awards, have a day job.
|
| This, interestingly for me, who has a well-paid job, removes
| the pressure of this project of mine. Since it is an art
| project, to not have the pressure of needing to earn money,
| actually makes my art better, I have more patience and time to
| reflect upon it (ironically, increasing my chances to earn
| money through my art).
|
| But I still have the pressure to earn readers. It's not like I
| am painting paintings that I am happy enough to complete and
| leave them on my house studio. I am not doing art for myself,
| but for others. That's where the ambition part come from. Which
| I like.
|
| I don't think this comes from a mid-life crisis, as I write
| short stories since my twenties. It's only now that I have the
| time, money, and, I might say, wisdom to be able to do it
| seriously. Writing is one form of art that benefits a lot from
| like experience.
|
| Just to share what worked for me, and maybe you can find
| something for you that fits the bill of being an ambitious
| project that you hope to achieve something meaningful from, but
| that it's not necessarily attached to financial outcomes. The
| privilege of being able to be professional about something that
| might not return more money, even if successful, is something
| that I treasure a lot.
| Projectiboga wrote:
| Listen to the call to do. Many great ideas and new business
| models came from those in their 40s. The other tack is to do
| some kind of giving back, not so much money but something for
| love not profit. You have perspective from arising from
| suboptimal conditions.
| paulddraper wrote:
| I would encourage you to be ambitious, in the ways that count.
| (Not necessarily just financial)
|
| Joy is in accomplishment and responsibility.
| hammock wrote:
| Do you have children?
| DontchaKnowit wrote:
| Im kinda in the same boat. Recently got a dog and have been
| finding absolute bliss in literally just sitting in the grass
| with him for like 30 mins at a time. Really is the highlight of
| my life at this juncture and im totally cool with that.
| mck- wrote:
| I used to struggle with this too, until I started studying
| Stoicism. Here's a quote from Marcus Aurelius' meditations 6.15
| that I think about often:
|
| "Ambition means tying your well being to what other people say
| or do. Self-indulgence means tying it to the things that happen
| to you. Sanity means tying it to your own actions."
| spxneo wrote:
| 1) change your environment temporarily
|
| 2) let new perspective come to you
|
| 3) implement what your own introspection tells you
|
| I've seen successful people become addicted to drugs because
| they let their minds idle and they lost perspective.
|
| Remember the devil doesn't come with bulls and horns. It comes
| bearing gifts to hook you in.
| consf wrote:
| I just try to remember that it's okay to strive for more while
| also taking the time to appreciate where you are and what
| you've accomplished
| myself248 wrote:
| If that itch might be saying "do more to shape the future", one
| way to scratch it is by working with young people. Mentor a
| robotics team or something.
| notincel wrote:
| This is nice story.
|
| That said, I feel like the people praising "the quiet life" are
| missing that this man found a companion at ~20yrs old and with
| that companion had a family and kids and grand kids.
|
| Plenty of people never find that anchor/base/partner
|
| https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/10/05/rising-...
|
| It's arguably easy to be content when you have good support
| around you. Bad or no support and it's much harder.
| keenmaster wrote:
| Sometimes contentment is followed by a good partner, not caused
| by one. To reach that state of contentment usually requires
| some mix of effort and satisfaction with the outcomes of that
| effort and ultimately your confidence in your ability to
| maintain and grow the things you value in life. If you worked
| hard but the outcome isn't good - why? If you achieved a good
| outcome (like a solid degree, a good job, and/or home
| ownership) but are particularly unsatisfied - why? If you're
| not confident in your future - why? It's not a requirement to
| settle these questions before finding companionship, but it
| helps.
|
| No doubt a good partner multiplies contentment, but they
| shouldn't be facing a void of it either. Lastly, if you find
| that your contentment is being pulled and pushed and stomped on
| by external factors, then do what is needed to gain control of
| it again - anyone can achieve this, and if someone in a land of
| possibility thinks they're the exception, that the world really
| is getting in their way, they're holding themselves back with
| that very thought.
| iorrus wrote:
| I have to agree, it's unusual the way the writer described this
| man as living a "quiet life". He was the head of the union in
| what was likely a major employer and had a large family along
| with probably a large extended family.
|
| He didn't seek fame but I wouldn't describe this man as a quiet
| one, he probably lived in a rich social network full of
| visitors, work colleagues, veterans, friends etc. There are
| very few people aside from egotists who seek large scale
| recognition for their work etc.
| nojvek wrote:
| I was watching a video about Stanford long term happiness study
| https://youtu.be/IULhd1UuicA?si=6YezvfwZ5NE5ile6
|
| The takeaway being what you mentioned. Having a long term
| loving caring relationship is the biggest indicator.
| gardenhedge wrote:
| > Quiet Life
|
| > stolen a school bus
| catoc wrote:
| Current no 2 on HN: "What will humans do if technology solves
| everything?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40029456
|
| A: finally all live like Ray Harrell
| Aeolun wrote:
| I feel like this is the truth for the vast majority of people?
|
| Nobody I know is out to do more than live their lives as best
| they can, and then pass away quietly and contendedly. In between
| there's a ton of challenges. Many more than I'd ever have
| expected growing up or only looking at Facebook, but everyone
| makes it work.
| spicyusername wrote:
| It's a very nice obituary. I have similar feelings about my own
| grandfathers. They were figures that seemed larger than life.
|
| Though, I confess, I think I must have a different definition of
| "quiet life".
|
| My definition of "quite life" doesn't include perennially hosting
| family Christmas, backpacking across Europe, being the president
| of a textile union, and getting shipped off to Korea in the
| military.
|
| To me, those sound like activities of someone not living a quiet
| life, hah. But maybe these days the bar for quiet life is set at
| not participating in social media or moving to a major
| metropolitan area.
|
| Either way Grandpa sounds like he was a righteous dude.
| lulzury wrote:
| > Being content doesn't mean being blind. It means knowing the
| difference between a good fight and a selfish one.
|
| I recently watched the movie Perfect Days (2023) and found a
| similarly resonant theme of contentment and simplicity in life.
|
| It makes one stop and wonder why one often tends to let so many
| external things drive our lives, happiness, and contentment when
| things can be so much simpler if we just start to try to see the
| beauty in what we already have.
| jp0001 wrote:
| Amazing writing. Reminds me of my grandfather.
|
| I've thought about it this way, you have four options in life: -
| not rich, not famous - not rich, famous - rich, famous - rich,
| not famous
|
| The last one is the best, IMO. And by rich, I mean to not need
| for anything. And that means having your ego in check. The worst
| thing I've ever witnessed is a literal 100+ millionaire with no
| peace, still trying to impress people of their wealth and self
| importance.
| bibelo wrote:
| A Quiet Life, by TEHO TEARDO & BLIXA BARGELD:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiPVgAhRE6E
| resolutebat wrote:
| If you liked this, you may appreciate much of Einsturzende
| Neubauten's newer work:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einst%C3%BCrzende_Neubauten
|
| (The older stuff involves mutilating shopping carts with power
| equipment and is more of an acquired taste.)
| seatac76 wrote:
| Beautiful article. Glad to see Bitter Southerner here. They have
| a wonderful perspective of the South.
|
| If y'all are in the market for a good coffee table book: Waffle
| House Vistas is very interesting.
|
| Link: https://bsgeneralstore.com/products/waffle-house-vistas-2-0
| jrwiegand wrote:
| This is a wonderful piece and I am glad that I came across it.
| The line that really hit home for me is the description attached
| to the photos with his girls. I have two young girls now and I
| take it to heart that right now may be the best time in my life.
| This sentiment has been something I have heard from many people
| about their children at this young age. This is just more
| confirmation to slow down pay attention.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Appreciate you posting this. For what it's worth, I'm in the same
| boat.
|
| I basically achieved my goals in life and am now very
| comfortable. I could just continue to work and keep up-to-date
| and find myself old and tired in short time.
|
| I'm poignantly aware of this window of opportunity which is
| closing. I'm still young(ish), and still have some physical and
| mental energy... The question is what will I use it for? What
| would bring me happiness when I am old, sitting in a wheelchair,
| recounting my life?
|
| As someone who has struggled with mental health most of their
| life I have vowed to never have kids. For many, children are the
| answer to this existential question. For myself it will need to
| be something else and I'm not sure yet what that is. To be
| honest, I'm worried I may never find it. I was lucky enough to
| find my first passion (software) but after so many years, the
| mind yearns for new experiences and to produce something of
| meaning, something I can be proud of.
| gen220 wrote:
| For what it's worth, you can still have an impact on youth
| without being a parent yourself. There's gradations from
| adoption and fostering to teaching and mentoring. Empathetic
| inter-generational experiences are beautiful for everyone
| involved in them. As you age, it literally keeps you young.
| zackmorris wrote:
| I have two thoughts on this: it's important to find contentment
| regardless of situation, but I would caution against settling for
| less.
|
| I've noticed that as more and more aspects of the American dream
| have been stripped of us by the uber-rich in recent decades, a
| certain kind of fatalism has settled into our collective psyche.
| There's a sense now that the quiet life is out of reach,
| regardless of income. That wages will never rise fast enough to
| keep up with the rising cost of housing. That there are just more
| and more and more people everywhere, that our heritage is being
| gentrified. That the hustle and bustle has nearly eclipsed most
| personal interaction. Basically that the worsening struggle of
| postmodernism has replaced community, tradition, and so on.
|
| Ironically I had welcomed tech/progress up through the late
| 1990s, because young people today may not realize how ignorant
| times were then, when shows like All in the Family may as well
| have been documentaries. If you watch Saved by the Bell and
| Napoleon Dynamite, notice how there's no real technology, and
| there's an impression that the future is coming, but at a glacial
| pace. It wasn't like today, where if something hasn't been
| invented yet, it just means you haven't searched hard enough for
| it on the internet. We still had science instead of
| manifestation, so nobody told us how much our dreams mattered,
| only that we should put our noses to the grindstone.
|
| Now in middle age after a lifetime of hard work with little to
| show for it, I find myself asking what all of this is for. What's
| the point of tech if it just makes you work harder? Shouldn't it
| make life easier, and bring more money and resources your way?
| And I think a lot about people who are good for nothin. Energy
| vampires who suck the life out of you when you're trying to make
| progress. They used to be people like me, angstful cynics who
| pointed out the absurdity of the modern world, who took solace in
| shows like South Park. Today they're the thought leaders and
| billionaires who vacuum up all available capital and lobby the
| government to take away our freedoms. What good are they if they
| only take but never give?
|
| The key part of the article was unions. You want the quiet life,
| you've got to organize. This lone wolf, rugged individualist,
| pull yourself up by your bootstraps dream of winning the internet
| lottery was a bill of goods. Because winner takes all, and odds
| are it ain't you. I've been trying for a quarter century and if I
| knew then what I know now, I never would have started down this
| road.
|
| I'm shifting my focus to a resource economy where basic
| necessities are provided by scalable technologies that can't be
| taken away by concentrated wealth. Where the difference between
| what employees are billed out for and what they are paid accrues
| ownership in a business, the same as capital put up by investors.
| Or that difference is accounted for in tax write-offs, pensions,
| retirements, social security, and so on. Where job applicants can
| see that discrepancy in public accounting records and choose not
| to apply to businesses that exploit them. So that we can all
| start getting paid what we're worth and build an economic system
| around improving the human condition instead of feeding off it
| like vampires.
| sentfromrevolut wrote:
| You are being downvoted as there is a smell of anti-semitism
| about your post. Billionaires are a problem yes when their
| goals do not align with Humanities goals but are instead anti
| humanity, and that's part of the game - why should they care
| about humanity ? You are making unreasonable requests on them.
|
| This is the way this world has been organised by God. God is
| punishing and trying to burn you out until you stop ignoring
| everything Jesus said and stop cashing in your life experience
| for ego satisfaction , through your beta bucks provider role,
| choosing sex and family not celibacy and solitude etc.
|
| Everything is structured as it is for a good reason. You
| yourself are living against God in many ways and just do not
| have the awareness to see it, but you suffer with clues and
| negative results that God is giving you.
| instagraham wrote:
| Radiohead's "No Surprises" always gave me this vibe, and made me
| yearn for a quiet life right from college.
| nntwozz wrote:
| It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.
|
| Not actually Tolkien but it's in the movies.
| ErigmolCt wrote:
| It is able to bring a sense of peace and fulfillment
| treflop wrote:
| I've met and seen a lot of people in life and while it's nearly
| impossible for a life to be stress-free, the content and
| successful people I've seen -- poor, rich, whatever -- seem to
| share one commonality: they found their passions in life, whether
| be it running a successful company, working with charity, hanging
| with neighborhood inline skate friends or raising cattle in the
| country side, and they get to do it nearly everyday.
|
| Everyone else is just packing for an inevitable trip that they
| know they are going on but they don't yet have destination. They
| try to bag all the milestones and pocket all the supplies that
| they may need, but without a goal, it is an endless journey
| without a chance of satisfaction.
|
| Unfortunately, the difficulty is finding your passion. There is
| no way to discover it without somehow stumbling across it, which
| takes a lot of time and money and only becomes more difficult
| with age and increased responsibilities.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > the content and successful people I've seen -- poor, rich,
| whatever -- seem to share one commonality: they found their
| passions in life
|
| > Everyone else is just packing for [...] an endless journey
| without a chance of satisfaction.
|
| With no offence to you and all the fine people whom you
| know/have known, I think it's clear that there is no regret in
| living a good, kind, caring life without seeking a "passion" or
| consumerist distortion. Many millions more people have lived
| the former than have lived the latter.
| treflop wrote:
| Living a good, kind, caring life is a passion to me. You have
| to discover it.
| uwagar wrote:
| everybody dies of cancer man. what the heck. why?
| XCSme wrote:
| I guess there always has to be a reason for death?
| ohans wrote:
| "...I realized that a quiet life isn't a passive life..."
|
| The importance of finding such balance makes all the difference.
|
| Beautiful writing.
| lcuff wrote:
| Evokes my favorite Warren Buffett quote
|
| "Basically, when you get to my age, you'll really measure your
| success in life by how many of the people you want to have love
| you actually do love you."
| csours wrote:
| I came across the quote "Happiness is a choice" recently. I
| haven't read the context yet (Suppliants by Aeschylus); but I
| feel like "Working towards removing unhappiness and increasing
| happiness is a choice" is a more complete idea.
| sergiogjr wrote:
| A nice personification of the common man from G.K. Chesterton,
| like uncountable others we will never hear about outside our own
| real life circles.
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