[HN Gopher] The Arc Product-Market Fit Framework
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Arc Product-Market Fit Framework
        
       Author : msolujic
       Score  : 319 points
       Date   : 2024-04-13 04:55 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sequoiacap.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sequoiacap.com)
        
       | altdataseller wrote:
       | I wish they discussed startups that didn't require a lot of
       | capital or even bootstrapped startups. But of course they're a VC
       | firm so of course they can't
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | This sounds a little nutty but if you want to be a bootstrapped
         | Rippling, it's possible.
         | 
         | A trick I've found repeatable is to find an enterprise that
         | doesn't shy away from big budgets (where six and preferably
         | seven figure budgets are fine even for unproven vendors,
         | because what's big/existential for you is
         | negligible/experimental for them), and is willing to buy a
         | product from you that requires "integration" (they love to
         | spend money on integration, plus that means it doesn't work on
         | day one!), where the "integration" cost is enough to bootstrap
         | the product AND integration (and your ramen!) at your internal
         | rates.
         | 
         | To avoid the bootstrap money going to overhead, to keep the
         | money for product build (engineering instead of paperwork), you
         | need to avoid getting "risk managed" like a mature vendor. Its
         | best for you to be a pilot, or proof of concept, or pet project
         | for a sponsor to show a concept they want the enterprise to do.
         | 
         | Pick your customers and product integrations carefully where
         | the work will pay for the enterprise capabilities most likely
         | to win your next sale. Use these big contracts like lilypads to
         | cross the pond to the other side of Geoffry Moore's "chasm"
         | between early adopters and early majoriy.
        
           | omneity wrote:
           | > find an enterprise that doesn't shy away from big budgets
           | 
           | How do you identify such enterprises?
        
             | lelanthran wrote:
             | > How do you identify such enterprises?
             | 
             | Impossible, unless you already have an in with someone high
             | up in the management chain to approve your $1m/3months
             | proposal.
             | 
             | Enterprises that don't shy away from big budgets have a
             | constant stream of multiple suitors all thinking the way
             | you are, many of them more experienced with doing this as
             | well.
        
               | extr wrote:
               | In case anyone was wondering how to make such
               | connections: attend a top 5 MBA program or have a long
               | history in management consulting, preferably both.
        
             | Terretta wrote:
             | Contrary to sibling replies, it's possible to find.
             | 
             | For example, when these mega enterprises realize they're
             | behind, they undertake "Transformations" or strategic
             | initiatives to "Digitize" this or that.
             | 
             | Look at enterprises that could use your product, see if any
             | are making noises in the press about landing a
             | Transformation Officer or Digital Officer or similar roles.
             | Or work the other way, search for hiring announcements
             | around such titles, and see if the firms hiring them are
             | ones that need you to pull off that change.
             | 
             | Either way, when they land that new leader, then look for
             | hiring announcements for their directs or in their product
             | or technology areas _related to what you could help do_. If
             | you see they hired from  "outside", particularly if they
             | hired from Silicon Valley, the Magnificent 7*, or other
             | "Fast Company" cultures, you may be able to cold contact
             | those new hires (LinkedIn InMail, standard email address
             | formats, etc., there are hustle guides to this step).
             | 
             | Do not form mail at this step. You get one tight clean shot
             | to hook them that you might have a genuine way to help
             | them, it's worth a conversation. Make having that
             | conversation _cheap_ , meaning, offer to make time
             | convenient for them, 30 minutes is fine to just talk to see
             | if your idea fits, etc. They don't want a dog and pony
             | show. Be painless for them to check if you can help. (Note:
             | Be completely unlike Oracle, Salesforce, Snowflake, or any
             | other vendor where if your desired sponsor takes a call or
             | email they'll be hounded by dozens of sales people for
             | months, and that's just to start a 9 month procurement
             | cycle. In contrast, your sponsor guesses a small firm could
             | ship by then, and they wouldn't have to waste time ...)
             | 
             | If what you have could legitimately help them deliver on
             | the Transformation or Digital initiatives' goals, they may
             | get back to you**, because the last thing they need is to
             | deal with even more enterprise vendors, they need some
             | small fast vendors to help them actually put wins on the
             | board.
             | 
             | * https://www.investopedia.com/magnificent-seven-
             | stocks-840226...
             | 
             | ** I have been that guy, and I have gotten back to small
             | firms. (I also occasionally reach out to startups here.)
             | Peers at similar roles have gotten back to people too. It
             | is _much_ more common to get introduced through VC-hosted
             | field days, senior exec or board room referrals, and the
             | like, but this path can work with enough hustle.
        
               | jspiral wrote:
               | yes, i was part of doing something like this at a small
               | elearning startup for one of the largest publishers in
               | the world circa 2010. Exactly as you say, brought in to
               | provide the tech platform for a strategic initiative
               | involving a transformative shift to digital-first
               | courseware and content.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | You have to also treat write ups like this as mostly marketing
         | for the firm. There was a discussion recently about A16Z
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39901289) that made me
         | think about that angle here as well. All these frameworks may
         | have useful information but they are also simplistic. I think
         | this is marketing for their Arc program, which is a selling
         | point for early stage startups to consider Sequoia. In other
         | words, this is about improving their deal flow. It also
         | probably helps filter the flow, since now anyone seeking early
         | stage funding from Sequoia will do the work to try to fit to
         | this framework before wasting anyone's time, and their pitch
         | will also be easier for Sequoia to understand and evaluate.
        
       | vinay_ys wrote:
       | A nice framework that's constructed retrospectively. Will it hold
       | true in the future, maybe, maybe not. The thing that makes the
       | most difference are not these broad ontological things, but short
       | time horizon tradeoff equations around talent/skills available in
       | the market, access to early customers and who/what they want,
       | your personal network, your innate temperament/mindset in making
       | day to day decisions.
        
       | _pdp_ wrote:
       | There is also luck.
        
         | max_ wrote:
         | The word luck has no meaning. Otherwise everything is luck.
        
           | Solvency wrote:
           | wrong. somethings are lucky. most things are unlucky.
        
             | max_ wrote:
             | The word luck has no real scientific meanings.
             | 
             | Other wise, life on planet earth is a lucky accident, you
             | being born was an accident, you now getting sever autism is
             | mistake, you reading my comment is a lucky accident, You
             | being able to understand what I am reading is just luck.
             | 
             | Life/reality does have some randomness but it's really
             | naive to call all Randomness simply luck.
             | 
             | What is more accurate to do is to define things in terms of
             | odds (probabilities).
             | 
             | And call something as having _higher probability_ or a
             | _lower probability_. Otherwise, everything does have an
             | element luck /randomness.
        
         | safeimp wrote:
         | I think where luck should be considered is possibly around
         | timing but otherwise luck will only get you so far.
        
           | klabb3 wrote:
           | This rings true, but understates just how important timing
           | can be. A difference of just a couple of years can be
           | enormous.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I'd be pretty shy about sharing wisdom like this after betting
         | so heavily on FTX.
        
       | SCUSKU wrote:
       | Obviously coming from Sequoia there won't be an bootstrapped
       | approach, but I'd love to see one for that.
       | 
       | For bootstrappers, the approach I've heard of is simply just
       | nicheing down to find a segment of the market that is big enough
       | to support you, but small enough to not be worth it to bigger
       | players.
        
         | geoffreypoirier wrote:
         | Well put! Nice framing.
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | > For bootstrappers, the approach I've heard of is simply just
         | nicheing down to find a segment of the market that is big
         | enough to support you, but small enough to not be worth it to
         | bigger players.
         | 
         | Thank you, as someone hoping to bootstrap myself this is makes
         | sense. Any idea how to make the niche smaller? The broader
         | market I'm thinking of is huge (likely billions of customers),
         | I suppose I could charge more to narrow it down but that has
         | other risks.
        
           | DelaneyM wrote:
           | Pick one single customer and fanatically meet their
           | individual needs. Then add a second. Repeat until you're no
           | longer needing to tweak your system to delight a new
           | customer. At that point you need sales and you have a
           | business! :)
        
             | DenisM wrote:
             | You will quite likely end up with a non-scalable "services"
             | business instead of a scalable "product" business. I did.
        
               | jumploops wrote:
               | You need to be willing to "fire" customers.
               | 
               | I've also been here, and it's a delicate balance.
        
               | altdataseller wrote:
               | And there's nothing wrong with that. Because not many
               | people can even reach that point.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | It's a balance.
               | 
               | We had a high touch service for B2B installation: we
               | charged clients for consulting (business analysis) to
               | configure and integrate our system.
               | 
               | The cost to clients for the consulting was approx 1 year
               | of our SaaS fees. The up front consulting helped heaps
               | with our cashflow, but it also significantly limited our
               | growth rate.
               | 
               | But it worked for us at the time (mid 2000's).
               | 
               | Definitely hard to avoid over-customisation of software
               | for one client: but you need to avoid that problem with
               | any software product servicing multiple clients.
               | 
               | Previous company with a similar product depended too
               | heavily upon ongoing consulting fees and that caused a
               | variety of troubles for that business.
        
             | user_7832 wrote:
             | In the idealized solution that I would build/provide, I'd
             | already be meeting the needs of many individuals with
             | "just" one top-of-the-line product. The only issue, and the
             | need for quotes, is because this no-compromise product that
             | would likely be competitive with the best in the industry,
             | would also be quite expensive.
             | 
             | This, fortunately or not, kind of circles back to the "make
             | more expensive products" aspect.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Take the intersection of two categories.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | This has little to do with whether you are VC backed or
         | bootstrapped.
         | 
         | The amount of effort to sustain yourself is going to be almost
         | the same regardless of which category you are in. Either you
         | have a category that is popular but will attract dozens of
         | competitors no matter how small your niche is or you have a
         | product that requires effort to market.
         | 
         | These days with so many no/low-code tools getting a product
         | into market has never been easier. And that's both a positive
         | and negative for bootstrappers.
        
           | j45 wrote:
           | A slight difference on the bootstrapped side is to only build
           | what generates revenue from day 1.
           | 
           | Funded startups can have different metrics for growth.
        
             | willsmith72 wrote:
             | Is revenue really the only metric though?
             | 
             | Bootstrapped means no pressure from investors, potentially
             | infinite (or lifelong) runway.
             | 
             | A bootstrapped startup could go years before turning from a
             | bunch of happy free users to a revenue machine
        
               | j45 wrote:
               | Bootstrapped and infinite runway doesn't go hand in hand
               | lol.
               | 
               | Runway always costs. By that definition it's artificially
               | subsidized.
               | 
               | That definition sounds more like a project than a
               | product/startup.
               | 
               | Bootstrap is a business, cash flow is like blood flowing
               | with oxygen in it, so the body can move and go do thing
               | 
               | Steve Blanks's definition is a good or that a startup is
               | a temporary organization dedicated to finding a
               | repeatable and scalable business model.
               | 
               | Life costs money, if a project is coddled to never become
               | a product. it's artificially subsidized by an investor
               | (you) and default dead.. and it's not a business that
               | makes profit to pay the Bills or pay for growth.
        
               | bx376 wrote:
               | > Runway always costs. By that definition it's
               | artificially subsidized.That definition sounds more like
               | a project than a product/startup.
        
         | moomoo11 wrote:
         | it doesn't matter imo.
         | 
         | you just need to solve a problem. you need to go talk to people
         | and help them.
         | 
         | if someone isn't using your product that you're building to
         | solve their problem and they are complaining about said
         | problem, it's because nobody else has tried selling to them.
         | 
         | obviously over simplified but I think it's true.
        
         | tompetry wrote:
         | While I'm not convinced it is VC vs. bootstrapped that should
         | differentiates frameworks, you should read this book, it is
         | simply the closest thing to a step by step user guide to
         | finding PMF as I've seen, and it worked for me:
         | https://www.amazon.com/Four-Steps-Epiphany-Steve-Blank/dp/09...
        
       | jamesblonde wrote:
       | For our company we are in 2 phases. In the cloud, it's 'hair on
       | fire'. MLOps is a hot space. For on-premises, MLOps is basically
       | download MLFlow and Kubeflow and you think you're sorted. So it's
       | the 'hard fact' segment.
        
         | richardw wrote:
         | Not on premises who are regulated and might have enterprise
         | requirements. If you need eg role based access control you
         | can't use on prem MLFlow etc. So you could niche down to
         | customers who don't know this yet. Smaller banks, insurers etc.
         | 
         | Edit: we went through this. Started putzing around with open
         | source things on prem on Openshift. Ended up on Databricks for
         | a variety of reasons. The impact on the business to be wiring
         | up lots of new widgets, maintaining them, training, ability to
         | switch to new components when required. Lean team, so turn
         | Databricks on and secure it properly, exclude PI where
         | possible, sort out ETL and CICD etc, profit. Delegate MLOps
         | stack innovation to the vendor and focus on our own job.
        
           | jamesblonde wrote:
           | That's a typical journey we see for on-premises prospects.
        
           | phillipcarter wrote:
           | Yep, this journey is exactly the kind of thing I run into
           | when I get prospects who want our product (observability) to
           | be on-prem. What they actually want is assurances around data
           | storage, retention, and controls; and a "throat to choke" to
           | cover their asses in case something goes wrong. At least in
           | this domain, very few people who need Observability actually
           | need things to be on-prem as well.
        
       | curo wrote:
       | I'm curious how education or entertainment companies fit into
       | this framework, or how they think about PMF in general.
       | 
       | Was Duolingo targeting customers who accepted the "hard fact"
       | that passive audio was the only way to learn a language? Was
       | MasterClass a "future vision" because people didn't believe
       | celebrities would spend their time teaching? Or is it that we
       | NEED education and entertainment, so these two providers just
       | differentiated from a crowded market.
        
         | lukeahn wrote:
         | Yeah, to me, Duolingo seems to be Hard Fact. But MasterClass
         | might be also Hard Fact. MasterClass is not a totally different
         | education service compared to the existing incumbents. Online
         | university could be MasterClass.
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | Alternatively Duolingo sells a casual memory game that
         | differentiate by giving the illusion of productivity. And
         | Masterclass sells attention and status to a class of people who
         | are already attention-oriented by stroking their egos. I'm not
         | saying this hot take is necessarily true, but the market isn't
         | always categorized by what we intuitively think. And realizing
         | that can sometimes give you a massive benefit, simply by
         | applying existing and effective techniques (in these cases
         | gamification and people-oriented success storytelling,
         | respectively) from a domain your competitors don't understand
         | or care about.
        
       | spxneo wrote:
       | My perspective changed from thinking PMF was a lottery when in
       | reality its just sales/marketing grinding until something works.
       | 
       | The reason I used to think this is like other technically
       | orientated founders. If I build for a market that doesn't exist
       | then you are playing lotto. It's not even good odds, you are
       | better off playing 0dte spx coin flip.
       | 
       | What you fear you build for and if all you have are unknowns then
       | you are going to simply end up building everything lose
       | differentiation and your potential customers even if they find
       | you will walk
       | 
       | Despite classics like the SBF article that was taken down, this
       | framework is quite good but the best thing to do as bootstrappers
       | is to focus on generating net positive cashflow as soon as
       | possible not running a PMF search engine which requires lot of
       | minds and capital injection.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | It is a lottery though.
         | 
         | My partner started a business and literally from her first ad
         | she was inundated with customers. Now it's a $10m/year
         | bootstrapped business. I've done exactly the same thing and had
         | 0 customers.
         | 
         | If you are falling into the Hard Fact / Future Vision
         | categories it can very hard to get customers because no one is
         | ever looking for your product.
        
           | spxneo wrote:
           | that just means she had the PMF to begin with
           | 
           | if you done the same and have 0 customers that means you did
           | something incorrectly.
           | 
           | it is IMPOSSIBLE to do the same thing that works and net 0
           | customers.
        
             | digestivetires wrote:
             | You can do same thing at different time. (Missed the
             | chance)
        
           | calderwoodra wrote:
           | There's not enough details here to say what she did right and
           | you did wrong, but it generally comes down to her idea
           | probably solved a problem customers were willing to pay a lot
           | for today and your idea didn't.
           | 
           | If her idea was "when you pay me x, you get 3x back in new
           | revenue" and your idea was a tarpit idea like "help people
           | find what to eat tonight", it's really obvious why you
           | failed.
        
           | shostack wrote:
           | What is her business?
        
           | kristiandupont wrote:
           | And when I write a blog post, I write verbs and nouns and
           | adjectives exactly like Paul Graham does but he keeps winning
           | the lottery of readers.
        
         | ldjkfkdsjnv wrote:
         | Its not a lottery, most people just arent intelligent enough to
         | anticipate new market needs. They have no business trying to
         | innovate at that level, but are unaware of their inadequacies.
         | Some people do have the raw intellectual and societal
         | horsepower to bring new paradigms to life.
        
           | spxneo wrote:
           | I wouldn't say its intelligence as there are different types
           | of intelligence but more specifically emotional intelligence
           | and self-awareness that is key.
           | 
           | The guys writing PMF is a lottery are jaded because they are
           | afraid to admitting their own weak points. They failed
           | because they ignored something. The ones with emotional
           | intelligence and self-awareness are able to navigate and
           | negotiate.
           | 
           | Founders keep fixating on pick-me startup, hoping for a cushy
           | exit, that happens less than 0.1% of the time, the odds are
           | as bad as wanting to go to NFL, if not WORSE. VCs and
           | investors also have to deliver returns they can't keep bank
           | rolling something that they don't see a market in.
        
             | qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
             | I appreciate this viewpoint.
             | 
             | There's also a lot of confusing finding / getting PMF with
             | what PMF is.
             | 
             | Product market fit is pretty straightforward: I have a
             | product that meets people's needs in a way that the market
             | demonstrates by paying money for (usually with the
             | connotation of profitability).
             | 
             | Finding this is incredibly hard and rare, thus it seems to
             | get convoluted with a lot of emotions.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | It's a lottery, but you control the number of tickets you play.
         | 
         | Far too many companies stick with one, failing ticket
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | Did you study business?
         | 
         | It's no wonder so many fail when most people don't bother to
         | study business strategy, entrepreneurship and marketing first.
        
           | drBonkers wrote:
           | Can you recommend any practical resources on the topic? Not
           | fluffy business-orientated self help books like all the
           | product management books that are recommended.
        
             | nprateem wrote:
             | Sure:
             | 
             | * Competing against luck
             | 
             | * Four steps to the epiphany
             | 
             | * Positioning by Ries (IIRC)
             | 
             | But also books on business strategy and marketing are
             | essential. I read several at uni. Maybe pick up an HBR
             | guide or FT book if you don't want to go for a full
             | textbook.
             | 
             | They should give you more ways to think about problems, let
             | you be more confident in ideas you choose, and reinforce
             | the need to iterate quickly and only gradually commit more
             | resources.
             | 
             | Most entrepreneurial advice could probably be summarised
             | as: make products with new tech that solve real problems.
             | 
             | The new tech part means you get in before competitors, and
             | solving real problems keeps it laser focussed on customers
             | with important enough problems they'll pay for it.
        
         | ttul wrote:
         | I spoke with the ceo of a top ten AI company on Friday. They
         | are definitely playing the PMF lottery and there is no
         | alternative to this. They have lots of very smart people and
         | tons of conversations with customers. But nobody has any idea
         | what will end up working.
        
           | kristiandupont wrote:
           | If they don't have PMF, what are they "top ten" in? Amount of
           | cash raised?
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | Plenty of businesses - probably especially AI companies
             | that do original research - found PMF in a market that's
             | too small for their cost structure. Like I bet Anthropic
             | and OpenAI have positive margins on their raw APIs if you
             | exclude all R&D costs. Even Google's AI research is
             | subsidized by one of the largest profit generators in
             | Silicon Valley.
             | 
             | So basically, yes, amount raised.
        
         | afro88 wrote:
         | How do you generate positive cashflow if your product doesn't
         | fit a need that the market has?
        
           | freeone3000 wrote:
           | Having positive cashflow is so 1986.
        
           | spxneo wrote:
           | You don't. And most of these OpenAI wrapper startups are
           | failgets. The consensus from the buyers side is that they are
           | disillusioned by the hype and dealing with the true reality
           | of this hype cycle.
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | I think it is missing one category. VR for example may be on the
       | future vision side but may end up only be a market niche.
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | I feel like there is quite a bit of overlap in hard-fact and
       | future vision, and I'm not quite sure where our company would
       | fit.
       | 
       | We're in the neurotech/sleeptech space, and while the majority of
       | the market is selling "fall asleep faster", "sleep more", we're
       | improving the efficiency of deep sleep with the health benefits.
       | 
       | This is a hard-fact - people are resolved to poor sleep quality,
       | or no "real" solutions to improving deep sleep quality - yes,
       | sleep hygiene is important, just like brushing your teeth is
       | important, but that isn't the answer to a poor diet.
       | 
       | So customers are resolved to the "I'm just tired, that's the way
       | it is" mentality or "I'll track my sleep, and now I know why I'm
       | tired".
       | 
       | At the same time, they don't have the context of "there is a way
       | to do this", which is why they were resolved to accept the status
       | quo in the "hard-fact"
       | 
       | Does anyone else feel they are falling between the hard-fact and
       | future vision?
       | 
       | Is anyone falling between Hair on Fire and Hard Fact? I feel this
       | is possible too.
        
         | brlewis wrote:
         | Deep sleep is not improved by consistent sleep/wake times, and
         | adjustments to noise/temperature/light conditions? If not,
         | which sleep phases are?
         | 
         | (I don't have an answer to the overlap question; I'm squarely
         | in Hard Fact.)
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > Deep sleep is not improved by consistent sleep/wake times,
           | and adjustments to noise/temperature/light conditions?
           | 
           | Deep sleep definitely benefits from consistent sleep/wake
           | times. Your body tries to play catch up if you break from
           | your normal rhythm but it's not entirely effective.
           | 
           | I think the parent comment might be exaggerating the futility
           | of sleep hygiene because they have a product to sell. :)
           | Proper sleep timing, duration, and sleep hygiene are
           | inarguably valuable for proper sleep architecture.
        
             | pedalpete wrote:
             | I'm not saying sleep hygiene is futile, I specifically say
             | it is important, and sleep hygiene improves the potential
             | for deep sleep, it does not directly improve deep sleep.
        
           | pedalpete wrote:
           | Sleep hygiene impacts sleep duration, which can impact all
           | phases of sleep. It impacts the sleep phase potential, which
           | is different from directly impacting sleep.
           | 
           | Measuring only sleep duration is like measuring only how much
           | time you spent at the gym, ignoring what exercises, weights
           | and reps you did.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > This is a hard-fact - people are resolved to poor sleep
         | quality, or no "real" solutions to improving deep sleep quality
         | 
         | I glanced at your website, and there's already a product on the
         | market that does the same thing (headband using EEG techniques
         | to provide auditory stimulation based on the same research your
         | site points out): The Philips Smart Sleep
         | https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/smartsleep/deep-sleep-headba...
         | 
         | So in your case, I'm not sure it's accurate to say there aren't
         | any "real" solutions when a major market player has already
         | released a product in the exact space. I think it's more likely
         | that wearing a headband every night isn't an attractive
         | proposition for many. That's an entirely different problem to
         | solve.
        
           | pedalpete wrote:
           | Philips has not been available for years, and though there
           | are many other EEG headbands, they are not focused on
           | improving deep sleep. Though I agree, getting people to wear
           | a headband is a difficult problem to solve as well.
           | 
           | iPhone was considered a future vision, but we had smartphones
           | and even smartphones with apps previously, but at the bottom
           | of the page, Sequoia points to the iPhone and Vision Pro as
           | Future Vision examples.
        
         | FireBeyond wrote:
         | > I feel like there is quite a bit of overlap in hard-fact and
         | future vision
         | 
         | Not to mention revisionism.
         | 
         | > Customers must believe that your product represents a whole
         | new paradigm--often with its own ecosystem. (The iPhone wasn't
         | just a device; its App Store was a new way of interfacing with
         | the internet.
         | 
         | "Its App Store" didn't come until a few years later. It was not
         | a part of the iPhone vision, certainly not at launch.
        
           | Nevermark wrote:
           | There was a kind of behind the scenes ecosystem building in
           | terms of AT&T's giving Apple an unusual (for the time) level
           | of direct and complete customer/device control.
           | 
           | The iPhone wouldn't have been the iPhone without the work to
           | create that wider context.
           | 
           | The better user experience that enabled Apple to give
           | customers counted for a lot. The easy to use, free of telecom
           | interference, App Store is a prime example that the unusual
           | Apple/AT&T relationship allowed, even if it was not v1.0.
        
         | dceddia wrote:
         | Yeah I'm not sure where mine fits either. I have a video editor
         | that removes pauses, saving lots of editing time for (certain
         | kinds of) videos/podcasts. I would say I hear from 3 kinds of
         | customers:
         | 
         | - They know about tools like mine and have compared a few
         | 
         | - They have had this problem for a while, decided to Google it
         | one day, and found my Recut app
         | 
         | - They stumbled on it randomly via social media and say things
         | like "where has this been all my life"
         | 
         | I would guess that some people from all 3 groups would describe
         | it as Hair on Fire, but they have different levels of awareness
         | of solutions. Maybe they just live with it as a Hard Fact,
         | maybe they live with it because they know of solutions but
         | don't like them (of the flavor "I want to automate this but I
         | don't want to lose all creative control to AI").
         | 
         | It's tough to find good ways to get in front of the people who
         | aren't looking! It feels like that way lies a lot of
         | broad/expensive advertising.
        
           | Nevermark wrote:
           | > It's tough to find good ways to get in front of the people
           | who aren't looking! It feels like that way lies a lot of
           | broad/expensive advertising.
           | 
           | What unrelated (to your solution) place are your potential
           | customers looking for solutions to other problems they have,
           | for whatever reason? Or at least a segment of them? Then
           | figure out how to be of interest based on that motivation, in
           | a way that lets you also naturally introduce your product -
           | directly, or maybe better, seemingly incidentally.
           | 
           | Just throwing out a possible approach.
        
             | dceddia wrote:
             | Good ideas here, thanks!
        
         | sungho_ wrote:
         | I'm curious to see how that actually compares in effectiveness
         | to wearing headband-type speakers and listening to sleep
         | brainwave stimulation music (which I tried).
        
         | fwip wrote:
         | Looked at your product. If your marketing copy reflects
         | reality, your product is Sci-Fi.
         | 
         | "The next phase of research is measuring the effect of
         | stimulation on removal of beta-amyloids, related to Alzheimer's
         | prevention, concussion & TBI, and more. We're actively speaking
         | to researchers interested in examining the impact on insulin
         | response for improved outcomes in people with type 2 diabetes,
         | as well as athletic recovery and this is just the beginning."
         | 
         | But if you believed that this would actually have a significant
         | effect, I feel like that'd be way up top, not an aside in a
         | blog post. Which means you're a "Hard Fact" ("sleep is sleep")
         | that isn't marketable, and you're reaching beyond your grasp to
         | try to become "Future Vision."
        
       | usernamed7 wrote:
       | in a way, this framework represents how far off the reservation
       | you're going. You're either building in the known, challenging
       | existing assumptions, or creating new landscape.
       | 
       | for apple:
       | 
       | building in the known: Mail
       | 
       | Challenging existing assumptions: airpods
       | 
       | new landscape: iphone
        
       | tempusalaria wrote:
       | I liked this analysis a lot.
       | 
       | However, OpenAI is a bad example of the future vision paradigm.
       | In fact it fits 1/6 of the characteristics they identify in this
       | paradigm. A better example would be something like Tesla.
       | 
       | I would say OpenAIs backing of the GPT model family in itsself is
       | a better example of the future paradigm than anything to do with
       | OpenAIs founding or non profit status that sequoia discuss. Going
       | all in on GPT gave them a big headstart (although google should
       | have been fighting much earlier if they had listened to internal
       | researchers).
        
         | hatsix wrote:
         | iPhone and Vision Pro are also not future vision. Both enter a
         | market at the high end, with established competitors.
         | BlackBerry and Nokia had smart phones that were functionally
         | equivalent, but they were marketed towards business users and
         | worked best with corporate integration. Apple delivered a phone
         | that focused on personal use. Vision Pro is entering market
         | where the competitors are focused solely on gaming or augmented
         | work (hololens) with a product that doesn't do either, yet...
         | but everyone is starry-eyed about what it might enable, some
         | day.
         | 
         | 1980s Apple, otoh, fully in the nose.
        
         | spxneo wrote:
         | not sure if Tesla is really the future of EV they are in
         | serious trouble
        
           | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
           | They definitely are, but they took EVs from a dream to a
           | product that every car maker is looking at.
           | 
           | Regardless of how well I think they've executed against the
           | vision, I think that they are a good example.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | PMF to someone who never experienced a true PMF is grossly
       | simplifying a product.
       | 
       | There is so much execution and luck in every step to get there
       | even if you have the right idea
        
       | andreygrehov wrote:
       | Is there a framework for finding a product?
        
         | vaylian wrote:
         | I'm not an expert in product development, but I imagine it goes
         | like this:
         | 
         | 1) Identify a problem
         | 
         | 2) Brainstorm and sketch out solutions
         | 
         | 3) Look at the currently available technology to see if a
         | solution can be constructed
         | 
         | 4a) If the previous step did not yield any promising path to a
         | product, then give up
         | 
         | 4b) Else: Prototype, test and demo a lot until you have a
         | working product
        
       | burntalmonds wrote:
       | For half a second I thought we were getting an update on Arc.
        
       | west0n wrote:
       | This analysis is very insightful.
        
         | slimsag wrote:
         | no malice intended, but I will take my cloud provider's managed
         | database service.. for which we get support, SOC2 compliance,
         | years of proven stability, no major approval needed by my
         | organization, and budget already approved - rather than jump on
         | the latest 'kubernetes is eating the world' fad.
        
           | spxneo wrote:
           | theres so many of these me-too links now ive just largely
           | begun to ignore it
           | 
           | its soft spam
        
             | rjbwork wrote:
             | Yup. These kinds of tangentially related ad-posts on HN
             | make me actively hostile to whatever it is they're selling.
        
       | mehulashah wrote:
       | This is a cute categorization. The stories they tell are charming
       | and reinforce the categorization. But, I've never found things to
       | be so cut an dry. For example, a lot of the work we did in AWS
       | often fell into the hair on fire category, and the products that
       | showed future vision e.g. AWS Glue, Aurora, DynamoDB were the
       | ones that rose above the noise.
       | 
       | It mostly boils down to this: delight customers and iterate as
       | fast as you can.
        
         | rmbyrro wrote:
         | > delight customers and iterate as fast as you can
         | 
         | One thing is the product. Another thing is your messaging. Yet
         | another thing is what goes in people's minds when they interact
         | with your product and your messaging. Fourth is how you reason
         | about the complex interactions between the three prior factors.
         | 
         | This categorization helps entrepreneurs with #4. I found it
         | very helpful.
        
         | aleem wrote:
         | > It mostly boils down to this: delight customers and iterate
         | as fast as you can.
         | 
         | This is maybe the second phase after AWS found a fit and built
         | a consumer base? Once I am in the housing market, I have a need
         | for everything (mortgage, building contractor, construction
         | materials, designer, hardware and accessories, upholstery,
         | decor, etc).
         | 
         | My entry to AWS started with EC2 in the very early days because
         | it of its commodity nature (any size and shape, for however
         | long, with per-minute billing) and instant availability. The
         | elastic nature solved scale. A lot of people didn't move to RDS
         | until later but it was inevitable.
         | 
         | Everything else followed on from there, cross-sells and up-
         | sells for reliability and convenience were always a click away
         | for captive consumers who were already onboarded.
        
       | barrenko wrote:
       | There is currently a generation of founders who think that
       | talking about PMF somehow gets you closer to PMF. Talking about
       | it, having a great following online, being a decent marketer -
       | does not mean zilch.
       | 
       | Knowing everything about PMF probably moves you single digit
       | percentage-wise toward it.
       | 
       | It's like being a vampire, avoiding garlic (hell, even drinking
       | blood) doesn't make you one.
        
       | graycat wrote:
       | Sequoia's essay has three categories:
       | 
       | For each of FedEx, Google, Duck Duck Go, Facebook, Tic Toc,
       | Amazon, AWS (Amazon Web Services), Windows, which category does
       | it fit?
        
       | nomad-nigiri wrote:
       | Who is this framework useful for?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-04-14 23:01 UTC)