[HN Gopher] Researchers find a new organelle evolving
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       Researchers find a new organelle evolving
        
       Author : WithinReason
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2024-04-12 11:40 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | im3w1l wrote:
       | If nuclear dna is the source code then these cellular
       | endosymbionts are similar to the attack in reflections on
       | trusting trust.
       | 
       | They are not part of the source code, but rather a self-
       | perpetuating feature of the compiled binary.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Literally encapsulation of your dependencies, which are
         | provided as compiled modules. We can now call that "a tale as
         | old as time".
        
       | OnACoffeeBreak wrote:
       | This is fascinating. Can someone recommend a book that goes into
       | similar depth as this article covering these types of symbiotic
       | relationships? Examples I can think of are:
       | 
       | - Organelles evolving from other living organisms as described in
       | this article - Bacteria in and on our bodies - Fungal mycelium in
       | relation to plants
       | 
       | I am sure there are many more.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | I strongly recommend "The Tangled Tree: A Radical New History
         | of Life" by David Quammen
         | 
         | The old metaphor of a tree of life has completely broken down
         | with crosslinks everywhere at all levels, far beyond what even
         | Barbara McClintock wrote about.
         | 
         | It's not completely true (but in the area what is "completely
         | true") that only the mitochondria and chloroplasts are captures
         | or symbionts. Flagella and cilia are examples of others! Though
         | technically they aren't considered organelles.
         | 
         | The book I mentioned above is really good! It doesn't simply
         | talk about how current understanding has momved beyond the tree
         | metaphor, it talks about how that came about, as well. Of
         | course, being a book for the general public at talks a lot
         | about the people involved too.
        
         | tomkinstinch wrote:
         | _I Contain Multitudes_ , by Ed Yong
         | 
         | https://edyong.me/i-contain-multitudes
        
         | epsilonic wrote:
         | Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake discusses this topic in some
         | detail with respect to Fungi.
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | This is exciting. I chat rocket fuel with my child quite often
       | and he is into hydrolox from water. The other big alternative is
       | methane from atmospheric CO2, but separating N2 could result in
       | fuel with a bigger bang.
        
         | AlexAndScripts wrote:
         | Wrong post?
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | No, but maybe more context would help folks not reading the
           | article: _A "nitroplast" converts nitrogen from the air to a
           | chemically useful form._
           | 
           | Basically any energy store receives inputs and then performs
           | controlled outputs. In the case of subterranean hydrocarbons
           | that was solar from long ago (without prejudice against
           | geothermogenic theories). How can we take inputs from solar,
           | wind, water movement, geothermal or nuclear and store it
           | optimally for a particular task?
           | 
           | For most purposes various electrical charge or entropy change
           | systems are sufficient. For purposes that require high energy
           | density and high sustained release, chemical bond changes are
           | optimal. Nitrogen is awesome for this purpose and so a
           | biological process for storing solar energy in separated
           | nitrogen bonds is exciting.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process was originally
         | developed for fertiliser, but instead we've often used it (or
         | similar pathways) to make the rubble bounce.
        
       | novia wrote:
       | Can we force the evolution of nitrogen fixing organelles in
       | plants like soybeans, which can already fix nitrogen through
       | symbiosis, by knocking out a couple of genes in the nitrogen
       | fixing bacteria to force it to become more reliant on its host?
        
         | readyplayernull wrote:
         | I can see that being patented, sold only to those that can pay,
         | nearby farms that get pollinated with the gene being sued, the
         | patenting company getting into financial trouble, the gene
         | being banned to protect interests in the name of nature. You
         | know, the usual story:
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/12/monsanto...
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Its probably more straightforward to introduce those genes into
         | the plant directly
        
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