[HN Gopher] Is It Dry Yet?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Is It Dry Yet?
        
       Author : badgerbbbadger
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2024-04-10 12:35 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (badgerbadgerbadgerbadger.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (badgerbadgerbadgerbadger.dev)
        
       | badgerbbbadger wrote:
       | I got tired of my dryer being dumb.
        
         | 0x457 wrote:
         | They do sell dryers and washers that can notify you. HN crowd
         | probably doesn't like those because "OMG why does it need
         | internet?".
         | 
         | They don't even cost that much compared to ones that aren't
         | connected.
        
           | badgerbbbadger wrote:
           | We did look into such dryers as well but my girlfriend and I
           | wanted to use our ecocheques and we also wanted a cheap dryer
           | that just got the job done. The nearest smart dryer was at
           | least a 100 euros more expensive.
           | 
           | And it ended up being a fun project for me ^.^
        
         | rrauenza wrote:
         | I wonder if you could have done it like a motion sensor scheme.
         | 
         | If you consume 100watts, reset a countdown timer. So as home
         | assistant polls the outlet, it should keep resetting the timer.
         | If the timer expires, then notify that the dryer is done.
        
           | badgerbbbadger wrote:
           | That might be a smarter way to do it! Right now I have this
           | thing where if we don't unload the dryer it does a sort of
           | warming cycle every 20 minutes or so. And that triggers
           | another alert. We don't mind because that just means we
           | _should_ unload the dryer to stop it from consuming more
           | power.
           | 
           | But I suppose the countdown approach would still trigger the
           | same thing. I suppose if I didn't really want the extra
           | alerts I should be monitoring the duration of power
           | consumption and exclude the ones that are of a shorter
           | duration.
           | 
           | I might try the countdown approach for something different
           | and see what results I get. Thanks for the idea!
        
             | rrauenza wrote:
             | You're welcome! I installed home assistant about a month
             | ago and have been really liking it ...
             | 
             | I was thinking of doing something similar to what you are
             | dong but was trying to think of how to do it without the
             | custom virtual device.
        
       | eternityforest wrote:
       | Does Home Assistant support Apprise notifications? For my
       | automation system I have a box where you can enter an Apprise
       | target, and get notified with the nfty.sh app.
       | 
       | It's really nice because the channel name is the password,
       | there's no API key or sign up needed.
       | 
       | I like Zrok a lot for true remote access, it seems to do
       | something similar to what tailscale is doing there, but it's
       | powered by some decentralized tech that seems to leave open the
       | possibility of having the tunnel endpoint in a phone app so it
       | still works on isolated LANs.
       | 
       | Of course this is all theoretical, since in practice I keep my
       | personal everyday practical tech a bit more off the shelf, I just
       | put a YoLink vibration sensor on the dryer.
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/apprise/ seems so
        
         | CraftThatBlock wrote:
         | Yes, it has an integration for Apprise. You can also just use
         | the Home Assistant mobile app to receive notifications on your
         | device.
        
       | bfdm wrote:
       | Hah, facing a similar gripe so enjoyed this.
       | Unfortunately/thankfully the dryer is on its last legs too, so
       | will likely be replaced by the smart washer sibling unit later
       | this year.
        
       | apercu wrote:
       | My experience with "smart" driers is maybe less positive than
       | others. Seems they typically only have one sensor in a rotating
       | drum, if they "read" a t-shirt they will stop because it's "dry".
       | But your jeans and your towel are not. Or, the sensors become
       | intermittent, so you stop using the "smart" features.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | I would naively assume the sensor would be a hygrometer
         | measuring the humidity of the outgoing air. What kind of dryer
         | do you have?
        
           | r2_pilot wrote:
           | It's not naive and that's how many of them work.
        
           | sroussey wrote:
           | Mine has no outgoing air...
        
             | HankB99 wrote:
             | Where does the water go?
        
               | r2_pilot wrote:
               | Into the house, clearly. Hopefully their air conditioning
               | removes humidity too.
        
               | np- wrote:
               | Ventless driers typically use a condenser to pull out the
               | humidity, condense it into water, and drain it into the
               | same drain your washer uses. If it's working correctly,
               | the humidity shouldn't be going into the air.
        
           | porphyra wrote:
           | That's not it. The moisture sensor is two strips of metal on
           | the inside of the dryer door that measure the conductivity
           | between them or something.
        
         | mhink wrote:
         | For what it's worth, my understanding is that it's generally
         | not recommended to wash/dry different kinds of fabric together.
        
           | pstrateman wrote:
           | Yes before drying my clothes I'm sure to blend them to a
           | consistent mush.
        
         | nan60 wrote:
         | Mine does exactly this and it frustrates my family and I to no
         | end. More often than not clothes are not dry and I'll just end
         | up putting them through a speed dry cycle because that one
         | doesn't turn off automatically (which completely defeats the
         | purpose as I'm running through more cycles than needed)
        
         | porphyra wrote:
         | Even when I have a single blanket, it stops after a few minutes
         | because one corner of it is dry while the inside is wet. I've
         | had many loads develop mildew as a result. For large items even
         | the "bulk load" setting with the max dryness doesn't reliably
         | dry them throughout --- I have to manually put in "time dry"
         | which is only accessible through the app.
        
       | smilingsun wrote:
       | The cool thing about water is that evaporates all by itself. For
       | free even. No electricity is required.
       | 
       | So an alternative to making the tumble dryer "smarter" can be to
       | simply not use it for most of the time, thereby cutting the loss
       | caused by "dumb" dryers.
       | 
       | The engineering part that's missing is related to re-introducing
       | and improving the many awesome laundry line systems that used to
       | be available.
        
         | smegger001 wrote:
         | Hanging clothes on a clothes line to dry only works you dont
         | live somewhere with frequent rain
        
           | dartos wrote:
           | Or very high ambient humidity (which I guess causes frequent
           | rain)
        
             | sroussey wrote:
             | I've been places where cotton _never_ dries and becomes a
             | fertile ground for all sorts of things.
        
           | yorwba wrote:
           | It works just fine indoors.
        
           | big_man_ting wrote:
           | How about you hang your clothes indoors when it's raining
           | inside? I've been doing that for years in a rainy country in
           | a tiny studio apartment. No issues.
        
             | CalRobert wrote:
             | This can cause issues with damp depending on your home and
             | the local weather.
        
               | ajuc wrote:
               | The water that was in your clothes and evaporated over 12
               | hours at night naturally is the same water that
               | evaporates in 1 hour in the powered dryer.
               | 
               | If you have working ventillation you're fine either way.
               | If not - you're not. In fact I'd expect worse problems if
               | you evaporate that same water quicker, because there's
               | less time for it to escape outside.
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | Dryers typically are vented immediately outside via a
               | dedicated tube and vent. That means that the air in the
               | rest of the house never sees the moisture at all, so your
               | whole-house ventilation system or dehumidifier doesn't
               | need to work as hard.
        
               | ajuc wrote:
               | Thanks, now that I think about it that makes sense :)
        
               | CalRobert wrote:
               | Some driers, especially in Europe, condense the water in
               | to a tank that you empty manually in to a sink. This is
               | useful if you don't have an easy way to vent it and also
               | shows just how much water is coming out of your clothes
               | (multiple liters per load, sometimes!)
        
               | powersnail wrote:
               | Usually dryers are connected to dedicated ventilation out
               | of the house, so the humidity doesn't transfer into your
               | room directly. Otherwise, the laundry room would be a
               | sauna.
        
               | ponector wrote:
               | If your room has already high humidity level water does
               | evaporate really slow and the next day you get smelly
               | clothes.
        
               | dzhiurgis wrote:
               | Dehumidifiers are pretty affordable and warms up your
               | room a little. Still doesn't solve the fact you need to
               | ventilate your home. If you can - isolate your drying to
               | a non living space.
        
             | powersnail wrote:
             | Still dependent on the overall climate. It's not
             | necessarily about how much it rains, but how humid the air
             | is. When I was in Virginia, it rained a lot, but the air
             | clears up fairly quickly after rain.
             | 
             | In contrast, my grandmother lives in a village with such
             | incredible rainy seasons, that this has been a pain point
             | as perpetual as the rain itself. For a few months in
             | summer, the air is so humid that even unused clothes have
             | trouble stay dry. Condensation appears on the wall, and
             | nothing ever dries, no matter where you hang them; indoors,
             | outdoors, doesn't make a difference. Sometimes, they have
             | no dry clothes for weeks during summer.
        
           | ajuc wrote:
           | Where I live most people have special pulley systems in their
           | bathrooms for drying clothes. Sth like this: https://m.media-
           | amazon.com/images/I/61sYCKX1U6L._AC_UF1000,1...
           | 
           | You put your clothes there, and the next day they are dry.
           | 
           | Other common solution is collapsible drying racks on your
           | balcony: https://images.morele.net/i256/12998234_0_i256.jpg
           | 
           | Or just clothes lines (but usually people have some backup in
           | case it rains).
           | 
           | I've never seen people use powered dryers for clothes. And we
           | get our share of rain, and in the winter it gets to -20C
           | sometimes.
        
         | CalRobert wrote:
         | One of the issues is that tossing your stuff in the dryer is
         | fast and easy. Hanging clothes to dry is kind of tedious. It
         | also tends to result in crinkly clothes (especially shirts and
         | towels). But I am curious about these laundry line systems you
         | mention!
        
           | smilingsun wrote:
           | Here's a great example of putting a bit of engineering into
           | hanging clothes outdoors:
           | https://99percentinvisible.org/article/hills-hoist-iconic-
           | ro...
           | 
           | I've seen many great things in photos where laundry lines are
           | strapped out between windows and across streets "ad hoc". But
           | most of them were in photos. I think the "pulley" that
           | carries the line and the line itself seem to be more durable
           | than what my local building market sells... I can only get
           | nylon lines and small pulleys, so I'm not happy with the
           | projects I've done so far. The best lines I've found are the
           | ones with metal wire inside.. the ones without metal in them
           | break very quickly.
           | 
           | One that I would really like to have is a strong, durable
           | multi-line rack that sits below a window. If possible, I'd
           | like to be able to expand and contract it.
           | 
           | There's also a lot of ideas shared online for creative indoor
           | solutions.
           | 
           | In general, Pinterest is the place to go.
           | 
           | Indoors: https://www.houzz.com.au/magazine/designs-for-
           | living-10-dryi...
           | 
           | Regarding crinkly clothes: generally if you hang up a wet
           | shirt to dry, it gets less crinkly than in a tumble drier.
           | That's an old tip for reducing ironing efforts :)
           | 
           | Regarding "hard" towels etc: This one is really difficult,
           | especially terrycloth and similar material that's supposed to
           | be very soft can seem hard after air drying. You can try to
           | add vinegar as a softener if your water is hard, I find that
           | makes a good improvement. And you can generally rub clothes
           | soft - I tried folding towels and give it a good rubbing,
           | works well to soften them up. I would also remark that after
           | using a soft towel once and drying it, the terrycloth also
           | becomes hard :)
        
             | CalRobert wrote:
             | All good points, but definitely more time consuming than
             | "throw in dryer, take out an hour later".
             | 
             | If you're even lazier you can get a combo washer/dryer. Not
             | quite as effective as a separate dryer but it's nice to
             | have dirty clothes go in and clean, dry clothes come out
             | without a middle step.
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | Many British houses are already damp and small, and heating
         | them to dry clothes doesn't save energy. Putting clothes
         | outside when it's -2 degrees or raining consistently also
         | doesn't help.
         | 
         | I think I've seen the kinds of indoor drying lines you are
         | perhaps referring to, but I don't know how compatible they are
         | with Northern Europe.
        
           | bennyhill wrote:
           | Drying in freezing temperatures actually works just fine, wet
           | environments are really a problem though.
        
           | ajuc wrote:
           | Dunno what counts as "Northern Europe", but in Poland nobody
           | uses powered dryers, it's all natural. And it gets to -20 C
           | in the winter here sometimes. Dry cold is not actually a
           | problem for drying clothes.
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | Never heard of this. Doesn't the moisture just freeze in
             | the clothes?
        
               | gspencley wrote:
               | I think that there are two assumptions that we tend to
               | make that causes the idea of air drying frozen clothes to
               | be unintuitive:
               | 
               | 1. We don't expect solids to evaporate, because it's not
               | something we notice often (though if you think about the
               | fact that a few inches of snow can disappear in a couple
               | of days while the temperature remains below zero Celsius,
               | you suddenly realize that you do observe it if you live
               | in a cold climate)
               | 
               | 2. We're so accustomed to using heat to speed the
               | evaporation of water. So we might assume that removing
               | large amounts of heat energy will "stop" evaporation. Or
               | at least cause it to slow so much that air drying becomes
               | impractical.
               | 
               | But ice does, indeed evaporate (to be accurate, it
               | sublimates). My question is how temperature affects the
               | speed of evaporation at low temperatures. How long do you
               | need to leave your wet clothes hanging below freezing
               | before they are dry?
               | 
               | https://phys.org/news/2018-10-sublimation-solid-ice-
               | quickly-...
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | I live in a place where there is ice outside all winter.
               | During winter the cold air can't hold moisture as much as
               | hot air and most of the days are at 100% humidity even at
               | -20 because the air simply can't hold more.
               | 
               | I might try this out on the deck next season but I don't
               | assume ice is just going to sublimate away because it's
               | literally outside all winter and doesn't go anywhere.
        
               | peterfirefly wrote:
               | > We don't expect solids to evaporate, because it's not
               | something we notice often
               | 
               | Although most people have a freezer that needs to be
               | deiced occasionally.
               | 
               | Particularly, if they have an ice cube tray in their
               | freezer... and, somehow, the ice cubes in the tray slowly
               | shrink.
        
               | ajuc wrote:
               | They evaporate faster in the cold, because the air is
               | very dry when it's very cold. Or sublimate I guess? In
               | any case they usually don't freeze unless they are very
               | wet (which rarely happens - people use washing machines
               | that rotate very fast for the last few minutes of washing
               | to remove most of the water mechanically).
               | 
               | And when they do freeze it's not like cloth encased in
               | ice, it's more like the clothes still look and feel dry -
               | they just hold their shape :) If you put them at room
               | temperature they finish drying within minutes.
        
             | blowski wrote:
             | Thanks for the correction on that. In the UK cold and damp
             | go together, and I'd always assumed you can't dry clothes
             | because of the cold.
        
             | gambiting wrote:
             | >>but in Poland nobody uses powered dryers
             | 
             | I'm Polish and we've always had a dryer at home, no idea
             | how my mum would have gone through that pile of loundry she
             | always did otherwise. So YMMV.
             | 
             | And the problem in the UK is that relative humidy is so
             | high you literally start getting mold inside your house if
             | you just use an airing dryer, as most people do, a lot of
             | houses have that characteristic "musky" smell because they
             | are just too damp. In poland the air is a lot
             | dryer(especially in winter!) so you don't get this problem.
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | Clothes can dry just fine when it's -30C outside, especially
           | if there's some sunlight. It's the humidity that is a
           | problem.
        
         | xandrius wrote:
         | Really depends on a million factors.
         | 
         | Where I grew up if you left the clothes out (but covered with
         | inclement weather), depending on season, they would either dry
         | perfectly or get a funky (awful) smell to them. I wish we had a
         | drier back then, it would have made my teenage years less
         | embarrassing.
        
         | pxc wrote:
         | > The engineering part that's missing is related to re-
         | introducing and improving the many awesome laundry line systems
         | that used to be available.
         | 
         | I live in a desert, and my current place has a not-tiny yard,
         | so I'm curious about this. Anyone got examples or pictures of
         | laundry line systems they really like?
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | > thereby cutting the loss caused by "dumb" dryers.
         | 
         | The loss that TFA and smart dryers are trying to cut is time
         | spent on laundry. Having lived both with and without a tumble
         | dryer, I'm very skeptical that there's a laundry line system
         | out there that is less time consuming than even a dumb tumble
         | dryer.
         | 
         | If there is one, I'd love a link!
        
         | latentcall wrote:
         | We have clothes lines in our backyard and hang drying clothing
         | is the bees knees. For one, dryers tend to ruin clothing. When
         | I didn't know any better I'd dry black t-shirts on lowest heat
         | setting and they're all washed out and didn't keep their color.
         | 
         | For some items like wool underwear and t-shirts I hang inside
         | because sun bleaching can be a problem.
        
           | dzhiurgis wrote:
           | Sun bleaches black clothing too. Plus it's essentially 2-3
           | extra steps. A good quality 2 in 1 washer/dryer in a bad
           | climate/limited space is a perfect fit for busy people.
        
       | kkfx wrote:
       | This is a good example why I hate both 99% of IoT available on
       | sale AND HA as well... Anything simple demand a wall of text,
       | convoluted reasoning, absent or badly documented stuff and so on.
       | 
       | This is a similar example JUST to get a water leak notification
       | from a user-friendly device (by user friendly means no crappy
       | proprietary protocols and services imposed, local as a first
       | class usage etc) https://kfx.fr/posts/shellyfloodandha/ and just
       | to use such automation to automatically close a motorized valve
       | witch actually just provide 4 power wires (ground, phase on
       | "close", phase on "open" and "neutral) is another wall of YAML.
       | 
       | Essentially 99% of commercial IoT seems to be designed just to
       | impress illiterate people with colors and so on, not much
       | differently than older merchants on "savage peoples" selling
       | colored glass like gold, and without any ideas about a real
       | practical usage and integration of useful features.
       | 
       | Personally about most kitchen appliance I cry for maximizing p.v.
       | self-consumption, since it's the sole technically sound way to
       | use p.v., for instance ovens, dishwasher, washing machines,
       | dryers can be "left ready to run" for a significant amount of
       | time, all we need to maximize self-consumption is coordinate
       | their power usage: ovens start to consume for a certain amount of
       | time, than just keep hot with short time heating, washing
       | machines tend to heat one or two time maximum for a certain
       | (variable) amount of time, dishwasher tend to heat more times,
       | but all can delay a bit their power loads, if they offer a cheap
       | ModBUS or a less cheap but not so expensive MQTT card AS AN
       | OPTION to be plugged behind the machine or even a kind of "smart
       | plug" that actually just a local powerline device communicating
       | to the internal electronics, coordinate their run from HA would
       | be simple. No one seems to have though about such usage. Water
       | heaters? Similarly, even most modern heat pump water heaters take
       | into account just delaying consumption looking at grid energy
       | price, no real integration with p.v., cars? Even worse: 99% of
       | BEV support DC direct charging, actually most p.v. inverters
       | supporting a battery support 400V batteries, the very same
       | voltage of most cars nowadays, so why the hell not offer a simple
       | home charge socket DC-to-DC to avoid double conversion DC-AC-DC
       | with significant loss in the process? AFAIK only one vendor do
       | so, but NOT integrated with any P.V. they just use "fast
       | charging" as a bidirection bridge to offer V2H for cars do not
       | support such usage (like MOST cars on sale).
        
       | cjk2 wrote:
       | Meh I just leave my shit in the dryer when it's done.
        
       | xandrius wrote:
       | This seems exactly the same approach as the rice cooker post.
       | Maybe inspired?
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39902207
        
         | firloop wrote:
         | Yes, I had the same thought. Suspicious or coincidental.
        
           | badgerbbbadger wrote:
           | Coincidental. Probably a case of this being one of the
           | simpler solutions to implement. Convergent problem solving?
           | (like how in evolution different species can converge on the
           | same trait?)
        
         | badgerbbbadger wrote:
         | It wasn't inspired but thanks for the link! If I had known of
         | the device notification integration, I would have just used
         | that instead of trying to roll my own logic :D
        
           | secabeen wrote:
           | You also can take a lot of it out of the manual config by
           | creating an input_select with various options to track the
           | operational state of the dryer (Off, Drying, Finished), then
           | use traditional automations to trigger switches between
           | opstates and notifications based on opstate change. There are
           | many threads on the HA forums and community about how to do
           | this.
        
       | bobchadwick wrote:
       | I roughly followed this approach: https://community.home-
       | assistant.io/t/clothes-dryer-automati.... It worked surprisingly
       | well, but the battery died in the sensor and I guess I didn't see
       | enough value in getting the notifications so I never bothered
       | changing it.
        
       | culebron21 wrote:
       | Mechanical kitchen timer will suffice. You usually know the
       | duration of most used programs. Doesn't need a hundred taps in
       | the phone to get it working. Mental effort to set the timer is
       | lower than with phone timer. You dial it and carry in a pocket.
       | Zero distraction when you set it up or get notified -- you won't
       | sink into the timer scrolling for half an hour. And in the end
       | you'll get the notification.
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | Also not as fun or educational.
        
           | badgerbbbadger wrote:
           | Mainly this. The project taught me a lot, was a good way to
           | have material to work further on my blogging skills and will
           | hopefully lay a foundation for more interesting projects in
           | the future.
        
         | reyostallenberg wrote:
         | Working, but so boring. For some of us it's nice to build
         | needles stuff instead of using a better (but boring) solution
         | ;) I like the needles stuff, you like the mechanical 'easy'
         | solution
        
           | msrenee wrote:
           | I was wondering what was going on in their life that the
           | alert sound from the washer and dryer weren't sufficient for
           | the purpose. My GE dryer sings a happy "laundry's dry" song
           | when it's finished.
           | 
           | You're right though, this way is more fun.
        
             | calfuris wrote:
             | Laundry machines are not always positioned where they will
             | be easily heard.
        
             | culebron21 wrote:
             | A big house, with a separate room for laundry machine, I
             | guess. Or maybe it's in the basement.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Mine's in my basement and I hear it fine. I'm sure plenty
               | of people on this site have bigger houses than mine
               | though.
        
             | theshrike79 wrote:
             | I wear noise cancelling headphones and can't hear anything.
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | I would need to remember to set the timer every time.
         | 
         | This solution is fully automated.
        
       | mbil wrote:
       | Hah, this reminds me of one of the first programs I wrote for
       | personal use. My Macbook at the time had an accelerometer or gyro
       | of some kind. So I made a program to monitor the output from that
       | sensor, and it would send me an email when the motion stopped.
       | I'd run the program, set the laptop on top of my running dryer,
       | and go upstairs. In retrospect it was probably not smart to leave
       | a laptop on top of the dryer for an hour :)
        
         | badgerbbbadger wrote:
         | This is one of the most bodgy things I've come across and I
         | love it! Did you end up replacing it with something else?
        
           | mbil wrote:
           | Ended up just replacing it with a timer, which was good
           | enough. The main reason was that I wanted to use my computer
           | while the laundry was drying.
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | Sudden motion sensor for detecting klonks from eg. a fall so
         | the HDD can put the heads somewhere safer. It was also used to
         | generate lightsaber sounds: https://youtu.be/phcXNisiD8w
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Make an app that does this and people can tape their old cell
         | phone to it and report. Could just work with sound if no
         | accelerometer/gyro.
        
       | marcinzm wrote:
       | I did something similar except I used a vibration sensor since we
       | have shared laundry for the floor. When doing laundry we take the
       | sensor and then stick it, using the magnets glued to the back,
       | onto the dryer/washer. The distance drops the signal strength of
       | the sensor which is what tells the automation that clothes
       | washing/drying is in progress. Once vibration has stopped it
       | knows that the laundry is done. Alexa then loudly notifies us of
       | it (great fun if it happens in the middle of an interview) and
       | the e-paper display in the living room shows an alert so we don't
       | forget.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Is that a product you bought or something you made yourself?
         | I've been wanting something like that but haven't figured out
         | how to get it
        
           | marcinzm wrote:
           | I used a YoLink vibration sensor. The lack of a local mode
           | for YoLink is a big negative but there's also Zigbee
           | vibrations sensors. The positive is that in my experience
           | YoLink has been very reliable across the board while Zigbee
           | has been hit or miss. Also unlike other cloud based services
           | (ie: Kasa for example) they provide a MQTT integration so
           | there's very low latency.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Thanks; I actually do prefer zigbee, but that tells me what
             | I'm looking for
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | smart, you could probably do the same thing with a cheap
         | piezoelectric microphone / transducer (actually I wouldn't be
         | surprised if a vibration sensor is basically just that) plugged
         | into an audio line-in port on an RPi running the show.
        
       | jchw wrote:
       | I've wanted to do this sort of thing for a while, but I am a bit
       | concerned about using many of the smart plugs on the market with
       | large motors, and I assume most dryers contain a fairly large
       | electric motor (not sure how large.) I'm in the midwest U.S., so
       | my dryer is a gas dryer; so presumably, the only real thing being
       | driven off the electricity is indeed a micro-controller and a
       | fairly large motor of some kind.
       | 
       | I can find _very_ few smart plugs that specifically advertise the
       | ability to handle inductive loads, which makes a ton of sense of
       | course, since I think that winds up needing relatively expensive
       | MOSFETs and circuit design more advanced than I can really
       | understand to be robust. I think the best recommendation I 've
       | seen is to simply _not_ use smart plugs for inductive loads at
       | all, and instead use other methods to either measure current or
       | implement switching.
       | 
       | I'm a bit afraid to use most any of these smart plugs. I have a
       | couple Zigbee ones that seem to work fine but I am only trusting
       | them with relatively small resistive loads for now since it feels
       | dicey to put anything serious on them.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > and instead use other methods to either measure current or
         | implement switching.
         | 
         | Yeah, I keep meaning to look at clamp style measurement. That
         | doesn't give you control, of course, but I'm mostly interested
         | in finding out how much power larger appliances are actually
         | using (my dryer is pure electric).
        
           | chongli wrote:
           | A current clamp meter will not tell you anything unless you
           | break out the individual wires you want to measure. Having
           | both live and neutral running through the clamp will cause
           | the electric field of the neutral to cancel out the field of
           | the live whenever the device draws current, so the meter will
           | be unable to read anything.
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | This isn't too big of a deal since at least around here,
             | appliances tend to be wired with screw terminals. So, in a
             | lot of cases there actually is a separate place to measure
             | hot and neutral without any terrible hacks. (Not sure if
             | that applies to my dryer, though: I should check.)
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | My dryer (I live in Canada) has a 240V plug with a heavy-
               | duty cable, no exposed wires. My dishwasher is wired
               | directly into the mains (I installed it myself) but
               | neither the laundry washer nor the dryer are hard-wired.
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | Your dryer may have screw terminals at the other end of
               | the power cable: those are often sold separately and
               | installed when you take delivery of the dryer, because
               | there are multiple types of outlets your home could have
               | for an electric dryer.
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | If there are screw terminals they are internal to the
               | machine. The power cable goes directly into the machine
               | with no exposed terminals.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | I mean, no not really. Take off the plate where the wire
               | goes into the machine and there is a terminal block at
               | that point. Unless you have some very odd machine I have
               | never (and I've installed quite a few machines) seen one
               | that comes with the wire.
        
               | chongli wrote:
               | I watched the delivery guys install the machine. They
               | brought it into the laundry room, took the packaging off,
               | hooked up the flexible ventilation duct, and plugged it
               | in. They didn't do any wiring.
               | 
               | I'm in Canada (as I said at the top of this thread). Are
               | you in the US? Perhaps it's different there.
        
               | Scoundreller wrote:
               | > My dishwasher is wired directly into the mains (I
               | installed it myself) but neither the laundry washer nor
               | the dryer are hard-wired.
               | 
               | You probably have an "American" dishwasher like a GE or
               | Whirlpool. If you upgrade to a "European" one like a
               | Bosch or Miele, you'll need to wire up a socket in an
               | adjacent cabinet and plug it in, or buy their ~$50
               | junction box.
               | 
               | The Europeans like to move with their appliances instead
               | of leave them in place. It's another reason for their big
               | kitchen appliances like fridges being smaller: so it's
               | easier to move and it will fit wherever you move next.
        
               | nuancebydefault wrote:
               | We just installed a new kitchen that replaced our old and
               | were told that appliances like fridges and microwaves
               | need to be plugged into an accessible wall socket, due to
               | safety regulations. We even needed to move a few in-wall
               | mains sockets to accomplish that. The 2F 7kW induction
               | furnace is hard wired though.
               | 
               | That said, in either case it should not be hard to single
               | out an L or N wire and clamp it to detect flowing
               | current. However a vibration or acoustic sensor is
               | probably easier and cheaper.
        
         | kabouseng wrote:
         | You can either wire a relay yourself, your smart plug just
         | switches the relay, and you can size the relay according to
         | your needs.
         | 
         | Or use smart switches made for geysers. Something like the
         | sonoff pow3 can handle up to 5.5kW. Since it is just a relay
         | inside I am pretty sure it can handle inductive loads fine.
         | 
         | https://sonoff.tech/product/diy-smart-switches/powr3/
        
         | MisterBiggs wrote:
         | I tried automating a portable A/C unit using a smart plug and I
         | can confirm that the large power draw will eventually burn them
         | out. The post does mention Shelly which is a brand I would
         | trust for this sort of thing assuming they have a product with
         | the right rating.
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | Some folks have success with vibration sensors:
         | 
         | https://community.home-assistant.io/t/blue-print-to-work-wit...
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | I don't think it's an issue for this application with a dryer
         | because it's not cutting power to a running motor.
         | 
         | The problem with switching an inductive load using a small
         | relay (like the ones in smart plugs) is that the magnetic field
         | collapses in the motor as soon as the relay contacts open. This
         | causes a very large flyback voltage to build across the
         | contacts as the relay is still in the process of opening
         | (mechanically driven by a spring) and so you get arcing which
         | damages the contacts and results in carbon deposits (with
         | higher resistance than clean metal).
         | 
         | In this application the smart plug is already switched on
         | (contacts closed) when the dryer is started and the smart plug
         | doesn't switch off while the dryer is running. Instead, the
         | smart plug's only job is to monitor the power usage of the
         | dryer and send a notification when it drops below 10W.
        
           | jchw wrote:
           | Hmmm.... That's a valid point that I didn't consider. I guess
           | if the relay remains closed all the time, inductive loads
           | shouldn't really be any trouble. It still does seem a little
           | sketchy, though.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Gas dryers often run 120V because they're only running a small
         | blower and a motor to spin the drum. You're probably in much
         | better shape to find an inline unit that can handle that
         | amperage.
         | 
         | First gas dryer I could find at best buy: LG 7.4 cu ft (beefy
         | boy) needs 11.5 amps. I'd be shocked if you can't find a 15A
         | smart plug.
        
         | jtriangle wrote:
         | Temperature sensor, tape it to the exhaust duct, when temp
         | falls below X for Y minutes, send an alert, sleep until temp
         | rises above Z.
         | 
         | Super simple, cannot be fooled if your values for XYZ are set
         | appropriately.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I love the enormous artistic effort the author put in the images.
        
         | seeknotfind wrote:
         | All 3.8MB of the cover image are appreciated by me :)
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | There are two cover images on the page, for 8.3MB total. It's
           | pretty wild.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Is it not just the output of some "laundry room in the style of
         | Van Gogh" prompt? Looks great, just not sure that's an
         | indication of effort these days. Several non-sensical sections
         | aren't cleaned up for example.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I really like the fact that the inside of the dryer is deeper
           | than the housing of the unit itself. If we're going magical,
           | let's just go full on magician's hat, Felix's bag of trix (or
           | Harry Potter for those too young for Felix).
        
         | williamcotton wrote:
         | Would you be as salty if it was free clipart or stock photos?
        
           | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
           | If the free clipart or stock photos were 8.3 megabytes for
           | two images on the web that don't add any meaning to the page?
           | Yes.
        
             | williamcotton wrote:
             | That's not the context of the original comment.
             | 
             | The subtext with which to understand both of our comments
             | is the clearly recognizable generative image from an LLM.
             | 
             | For some reason it is completely acceptable on these forums
             | to trash talk people who use LLMs, or even more
             | problematic, to disparagingly accuse someone of sounding
             | like an LLM.
             | 
             | I assume because it is based on the idea that using an LLM
             | is low effort which is why I mentioned different kinds of
             | low effort images that are not often criticized.
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | For me personally it just gives me the uncanny valley
               | effect. That's also a succinct and plausible explanation
               | to GenAI objections, than the idea that using LLMs are
               | ..., it's just that it's not there yet.
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | We decided to buy fancy WiFi washer and dryer for our new house.
       | Apparently to meet the latest bullshit energy requirements, our
       | dryer does so by _not completely drying things_.
       | 
       | So now I put it on timed dry, and that means I can just start a
       | 60 minute timer on my watch.
        
       | valicord wrote:
       | Not to knock other people's hobbies, but our dryer plays a loud
       | jingle when done, no Internet connection required. Do other
       | models not have this feature?
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | How loud is that jingle, and how small is your house? for some,
         | the dryer is located in a basement, far away enough that no
         | such jingle, or buzzer can be heard in the rest of the house.
        
           | smugglerFlynn wrote:
           | Solution is quite simple - rewire the dryer's jingle circuit
           | to electrically trigger play for a pre-recorded "Hey Alexa!
           | Notify my owner that drying is complete" cassette record on
           | an old portable Walkman. Install Amazon speaker nearby to
           | react on this.
        
           | valicord wrote:
           | Fairly loud and fairly large (can be heard on another floor),
           | but I'll admit I didn't consider the basement scenario (since
           | I don't have one)
        
         | astura wrote:
         | Most do, but basements and garages are a common location for
         | dryers, both are usually out of the way enough that it's very
         | difficult to hear the sound in the living quarters.
        
         | gavinsyancey wrote:
         | This is a common feature, but somehow mine does not do this. I
         | didn't pick it out; my landlord did. Not surprised they cheaped
         | out on literally everything.
        
         | dfc wrote:
         | The thing that I am not sure of is why it's so important to
         | know when the dryer finishes? And if it's that important how
         | does it slip your mind that the 45 dryer cycle started at the
         | top of the hour?
         | 
         | Is it a kids thing?
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | "Modern" dryers will vary their run time and stop once they
           | stop sensing some threshold of humidity in exhaust air.
           | 
           | A load of jeans will take longer than a polyester shirt load.
        
             | jtriangle wrote:
             | Simple solution is to place a temperature probe on the
             | exhaust duct and alert based on that. That's what I'm doing
             | and it never fails.
             | 
             | My dryer beeps, but, it's in the garage, so, impossible to
             | hear.
        
           | jtriangle wrote:
           | Wrinkles. If you yank your clothes out of the dryer and get
           | them hung while they're still warm, they don't wrinkle nearly
           | as much than if you let them cool down in a heap in the
           | drier.
           | 
           | 45 minutes is more than enough time to get thoroughly
           | engrossed in a myriad of activities, so, easy to forget, and
           | not all drier cycles are predictable. Timed dry is, but,
           | anything smarter than that isn't (and most driers still in
           | service are smarter).
        
       | andrewfromx wrote:
       | definitely thought this was about code and "don't repeat
       | yourself". I thought it was going to talk about how it's not
       | necessary to make sure your code is 100% dry it's ok to repeat
       | yourself sometimes. Which it is. Specially while waiting your
       | clothes to dry.
        
       | NortySpock wrote:
       | For those wanting this convenience on a dumb washing machine, I
       | used a single smart plug flashed with Tasmota firmware to monitor
       | when the power draw dropped to zero. Notifications through Home
       | Assistant.
       | 
       | Not affiliated, just a happy customer of:
       | 
       | https://cloudfree.shop/product/cloudfree-smart-plug-runs-tas...
        
         | thechao wrote:
         | CloudFree is great, but I wish I'd been able to pitch the name
         | 'clearsky' to them. I _hate_ , I do mean _loathe_ , all of
         | these cloudy smart things. So... I'm pretty pleased you posted
         | this. Now, I just gotta figure out what the heck "Tasmota" is.
        
           | mewse-hn wrote:
           | My experience was Tasmota:
           | 
           | I won some smart plugs at a work event, and I'm not a smart
           | home guy so I brought them home and figured out how to set
           | them up. They required a vendor specific smartphone app. I
           | was less than impressed. I wouldn't be able to set up any
           | automations because this thing had to dial home to some
           | shitty vendor cloud lock-in thing.
           | 
           | I looked into how to load open firmware onto the smart
           | switches, and I discovered I'd basically have to destroy the
           | plastic shell of the device to get access to the circuit
           | board, desolder the wifi control module and solder in a new
           | module that was compatible with Tasmota, which is the
           | standard open source firmware for these devices.
           | 
           | What was much easier was to buy Sonoff S31 smart switches
           | because they are able to be disassembled without cutting and
           | grinding the shell away. Then I reprogrammed them using a 3d
           | printed clip with pogo pins - flashing the Tasmota firmware
           | so that I could do whatever I wanted with them.
           | 
           | Easier still would be to buy smart plugs with Tasmota pre-
           | flashed.
        
         | deadbunny wrote:
         | For the UK folks I've bought some pre-flashes plugs from
         | https://www.mylocalbytes.com/ and been happy.
        
       | birdman3131 wrote:
       | Now I understand using HA if you are trying to keep it all off
       | the internet but this is all doable in the shelly app itself.
       | 
       | May be a better way of doing it but off hand you can do it with 2
       | scenes.
       | 
       | Scene 1. If power consumption > 100w for 5 minutes turn scene 2
       | on.
       | 
       | Scene 2. If power draw less than 5w for more than a minute. send
       | notification to phone. Turn off scene 2.
        
       | time0ut wrote:
       | Cool hack and enjoyable read.
       | 
       | The smart plug idea is slick. I like the idea of decoupling the
       | smart from the appliance. I'd much rather all my appliances be
       | dumb.
       | 
       | In the US, you'd have to get a 240 volt smart plug. Are there any
       | reputable ones?
       | 
       | For the laundry use case, I just set an alarm on my phone
       | though...
        
         | hunter2_ wrote:
         | > In the US, you'd have to get a 240 volt smart plug
         | 
         | For the 75% that use electric. 25% use gas with 120V
         | motor/control.
        
       | JohnTheNerd wrote:
       | If you are scared of messing with electricity like I am, instead
       | of using power monitoring, another viable but less reliable
       | option is to use vibration sensors.
       | 
       | I picked up a simple Zigbee vibration sensor for less than 20$,
       | taped it on top of the washer/dryer, and connected it to
       | HomeAssistant using Zigbee2MQTT. After creating two automations
       | to detect start/stop based on continuous vibrations over a few
       | minutes, I had the notifications working the exact same way.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I don't know about economical but there are devices that sense
         | current flow in a line without a tap, just from the EM fields.
         | People with wood shops use these to automatically turn on the
         | dust collection system when any power tool is turned on.
         | 
         | Between small production sizes and the relay there are probably
         | cheaper DIY solutions. OP is just using a smart plug, so no
         | real electronics involved.
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | The problem with those is that they only work if they are
           | wrapped around a live wire, not live and neutral. So unless
           | you have exposed L/N wires in your cable, it's not going to
           | work at all.
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | These clamp on systems may not work too well on North
           | American 240V circuits like a dryer since the emf will
           | cancel, no? You have two 120V feeds exactly 180 degrees out
           | of phase with eachother. Unless you unravel the wires a bit
           | and just clamp a single conductor.
           | 
           | Or maybe I have this all wrong.
        
             | jtriangle wrote:
             | You are correct, current clamps can't read accurately in
             | this situation. All you'll get is any disparity between the
             | phases, which, will be small.
             | 
             | That said, it's probably worth a try, because it's likely
             | that internally the drier's control circuits are only
             | tapping one leg, and you might be able to read that, and it
             | might change reliably enough to trigger an alert.
             | 
             | Usually, you'd use a vibration sensor for this job however.
             | You can also use a thermal sensor on the exhaust air,
             | combined with a time delay (because they run
             | cooldown/dewrinkle cycles), and you're good to go.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | Huh, I thought 240V circuits used some sort of three-phase
             | system.
        
       | throwitaway222 wrote:
       | I'm just staring at the artwork (dalle I'm assuming?)
        
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