[HN Gopher] Caltech restores standardized test requirement for u...
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       Caltech restores standardized test requirement for undergraduate
       admission
        
       Author : msravi
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2024-04-11 19:07 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.caltech.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.caltech.edu)
        
       | justrealist wrote:
       | It's the right direction of course but the concurrent release
       | with Harvard sort of opens them up to antitrust probe tbh.
       | Clearly the admission offices are all synchronizing policy in
       | backchannels (or frontchannels).
        
         | NewJazz wrote:
         | What's the antitrust angle? SAT and ACT are administered by
         | different companies, right? Do Caltech or Harvard have some
         | sort of stake in either of them?
        
           | mimikatz wrote:
           | It is just those are objective measures and lead to minority
           | groups being discriminated against (notably Asians) having
           | data to prove it.
        
             | NewJazz wrote:
             | SCOTUS ruled that universities can't use race as a factor
             | for admission. Like, at all. Asian demographics are usually
             | scoring higher on these tests.
             | 
             | None of this has anything to do with antitrust.
        
           | zugi wrote:
           | Top schools compete with each for students. Collaborating to
           | keep prices high or keep admissions criteria consistent in a
           | way that reduces competition between the schools would open
           | them up to anti-trust complaints.
           | 
           | But that would be hard to prove. If two gas stations collude
           | to set prices, that violates anti-trust law. But if they just
           | follow suit as they see the other raise or lower prices,
           | that's generally legal, as long as there isn't a secret or
           | understood agreement. I expect the latter is more what's
           | going on here.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Harvard will require test scores for admission again_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40003251 - April 2024 (110
       | comments)
       | 
       | Also related. Others?
       | 
       |  _Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and
       | GPA (2009) [pdf]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39694012
       | - March 2024 (70 comments)
       | 
       |  _UT Austin Reinstates Standardized Test Scores in Admissions_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39677364 - March 2024 (3
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Yale will again require standardized test scores for admission_
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467434 - Feb 2024 (233
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate
       | admissions [pdf]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39263106
       | - Feb 2024 (416 comments)
       | 
       |  _The misguided war on the SAT_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38901976 - Jan 2024 (21
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35028562 - March 2023 (652
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly
       | choose students_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298336
       | - Oct 2022 (573 comments)
       | 
       |  _Harvard won't require SAT or ACT through 2026 as test-optional
       | push grows_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29592885 - Dec
       | 2021 (485 comments)
       | 
       |  _UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any
       | SAT alternative_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29282174
       | - Nov 2021 (215 comments)
       | 
       |  _University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23266209 - May 2020 (367
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions
       | decisions_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22638764 -
       | March 2020 (453 comments)
       | 
       |  _Record number of colleges drop SAT /ACT admissions requirement_
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297868 - Oct 2019 (153
       | comments)
        
       | laidoffamazon wrote:
       | Can someone earnestly state that this would make a difference? I
       | keep hearing about those poor immigrant Chinese folks from NYC
       | that get into Yale with just their 1600's and a dream but that
       | straight up does not happen if you don't have the rest of the
       | qualifiers. Nobody is getting into these top schools with just
       | good SAT scores, the "high-agency" signaling on their application
       | carries far more weight.
       | 
       | I'd even wager that the people that didn't include their SAT/ACT
       | scores in the past few years and got in _likely would have gotten
       | in_ even if they had submitted them. The only impact this has is
       | on reducing the cost of reading applications and decreasing the
       | applicant pool (which is fine, but it 's not some kind of win for
       | meritocracy).
        
       | georgeburdell wrote:
       | Really interested to see GPA data before and after this change,
       | from Caltech and other universities.
        
         | qeternity wrote:
         | GPAs have been inflating pretty steadily for decades.
        
           | georgeburdell wrote:
           | They went test optional and then back in a mere four year
           | period. I believe that should produce some fairly strong
           | resolving power for any consequences of that decision.
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | Either people are stupid to know or too evil to pretend not to
       | know that the more complex a rule is, the easier it is to game
       | it. So it is much easier for the wealthy to game the essay
       | writing or whatever that "holistic admission".
       | 
       | Besides, SAT is a filter. Any person with IQ above 80 can see
       | that SAT is easy, especially compared to the college entrance
       | exams in other countries. Those who do well in SAT may not do
       | well in school, but those who do badly in SAT or CAT are
       | certainly academically inept, at least probabilistically. Of
       | course, there are some corner cases, such as for the
       | unfortunately students in those miserable Baltimore schools,
       | where the median GPA is 0.5 (or 1.5?).
       | 
       | It's so sad that the US got into this Animal Farm shit, and far
       | too many people cheered for it.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-11 23:02 UTC)