[HN Gopher] Caltech restores standardized test requirement for u...
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Caltech restores standardized test requirement for undergraduate
admission
Author : msravi
Score : 29 points
Date : 2024-04-11 19:07 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.caltech.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.caltech.edu)
| justrealist wrote:
| It's the right direction of course but the concurrent release
| with Harvard sort of opens them up to antitrust probe tbh.
| Clearly the admission offices are all synchronizing policy in
| backchannels (or frontchannels).
| NewJazz wrote:
| What's the antitrust angle? SAT and ACT are administered by
| different companies, right? Do Caltech or Harvard have some
| sort of stake in either of them?
| mimikatz wrote:
| It is just those are objective measures and lead to minority
| groups being discriminated against (notably Asians) having
| data to prove it.
| NewJazz wrote:
| SCOTUS ruled that universities can't use race as a factor
| for admission. Like, at all. Asian demographics are usually
| scoring higher on these tests.
|
| None of this has anything to do with antitrust.
| zugi wrote:
| Top schools compete with each for students. Collaborating to
| keep prices high or keep admissions criteria consistent in a
| way that reduces competition between the schools would open
| them up to anti-trust complaints.
|
| But that would be hard to prove. If two gas stations collude
| to set prices, that violates anti-trust law. But if they just
| follow suit as they see the other raise or lower prices,
| that's generally legal, as long as there isn't a secret or
| understood agreement. I expect the latter is more what's
| going on here.
| dang wrote:
| Related ongoing thread:
|
| _Harvard will require test scores for admission again_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40003251 - April 2024 (110
| comments)
|
| Also related. Others?
|
| _Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and
| GPA (2009) [pdf]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39694012
| - March 2024 (70 comments)
|
| _UT Austin Reinstates Standardized Test Scores in Admissions_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39677364 - March 2024 (3
| comments)
|
| _Yale will again require standardized test scores for admission_
| - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39467434 - Feb 2024 (233
| comments)
|
| _Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate
| admissions [pdf]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39263106
| - Feb 2024 (416 comments)
|
| _The misguided war on the SAT_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38901976 - Jan 2024 (21
| comments)
|
| _Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35028562 - March 2023 (652
| comments)
|
| _Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly
| choose students_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33298336
| - Oct 2022 (573 comments)
|
| _Harvard won't require SAT or ACT through 2026 as test-optional
| push grows_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29592885 - Dec
| 2021 (485 comments)
|
| _UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any
| SAT alternative_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29282174
| - Nov 2021 (215 comments)
|
| _University of California Will Stop Using SAT, ACT_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23266209 - May 2020 (367
| comments)
|
| _MIT to no longer consider SAT subject tests in admissions
| decisions_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22638764 -
| March 2020 (453 comments)
|
| _Record number of colleges drop SAT /ACT admissions requirement_
| - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21297868 - Oct 2019 (153
| comments)
| laidoffamazon wrote:
| Can someone earnestly state that this would make a difference? I
| keep hearing about those poor immigrant Chinese folks from NYC
| that get into Yale with just their 1600's and a dream but that
| straight up does not happen if you don't have the rest of the
| qualifiers. Nobody is getting into these top schools with just
| good SAT scores, the "high-agency" signaling on their application
| carries far more weight.
|
| I'd even wager that the people that didn't include their SAT/ACT
| scores in the past few years and got in _likely would have gotten
| in_ even if they had submitted them. The only impact this has is
| on reducing the cost of reading applications and decreasing the
| applicant pool (which is fine, but it 's not some kind of win for
| meritocracy).
| georgeburdell wrote:
| Really interested to see GPA data before and after this change,
| from Caltech and other universities.
| qeternity wrote:
| GPAs have been inflating pretty steadily for decades.
| georgeburdell wrote:
| They went test optional and then back in a mere four year
| period. I believe that should produce some fairly strong
| resolving power for any consequences of that decision.
| hintymad wrote:
| Either people are stupid to know or too evil to pretend not to
| know that the more complex a rule is, the easier it is to game
| it. So it is much easier for the wealthy to game the essay
| writing or whatever that "holistic admission".
|
| Besides, SAT is a filter. Any person with IQ above 80 can see
| that SAT is easy, especially compared to the college entrance
| exams in other countries. Those who do well in SAT may not do
| well in school, but those who do badly in SAT or CAT are
| certainly academically inept, at least probabilistically. Of
| course, there are some corner cases, such as for the
| unfortunately students in those miserable Baltimore schools,
| where the median GPA is 0.5 (or 1.5?).
|
| It's so sad that the US got into this Animal Farm shit, and far
| too many people cheered for it.
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