[HN Gopher] Quantum Algorithms for Lattice Problems
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Quantum Algorithms for Lattice Problems
        
       Author : trotro
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2024-04-11 04:32 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (eprint.iacr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (eprint.iacr.org)
        
       | ghostway wrote:
       | From the paper:
       | 
       | > Let us remark that the modulus-noise ratio achieved by our
       | quantum algorithm is still too large to break the public-key
       | encryption schemes based on (Ring)LWE used in practice. In
       | particular, we have not broken the NIST PQC standardization
       | candidates. For example, for CRYSTALS-Kyber [BDK+18], the error
       | term is chosen from a small constant range, the modulus is q =
       | 3329, the dimension is n = 256 * k where k [?] {3, 4, 5}, so we
       | can think of q as being almost linear in n. For our algorithm, if
       | we set aq [?] O(1), then our algorithm applies when q [?]
       | ^~(n^2), so we are not able to break CRYSTALS-Kyber yet. We leave
       | the task of improving the approximation factor of our quantum
       | algorithm to future work.
        
         | ghostway wrote:
         | (of course, this doesn't mean we are in the clear -- a
         | polynomial-time algorithm is alarming)
        
           | rhaps0dy wrote:
           | I don't understand your comment in the context of the
           | previous comment you posted. AIUI, the excerpt says "our
           | algorithm only applies when the modulus q is larger than n^2"
           | where n is 256 _3 or 256_ 6 (I guess?). So the excerpt would
           | be saying that the algorithm does not apply in this case,
           | because 3000 << (256*3)^2. Right?
        
             | abdullahkhalids wrote:
             | If the history of cryptography is any guide, even though
             | this result doesn't break LWE crypto-protocols, it's much
             | more likely now that someone will come up an improvement
             | that will break LWE crypto-protocols in the future. First
             | constructions of algorithms are rarely optimal.
             | 
             | Even though the opposite is possible as well, now that a
             | concrete algorithm has been made. Someone could very well
             | prove that LWE crypto-protocols are secure against some
             | class of algorithms this algorithm belongs to.
             | 
             | Of course, right now, we should just wait for the experts
             | to read the paper and check if there are any problems.
        
       | deyiao wrote:
       | If the findings of this paper hold up, I believe it could pretty
       | much undo a decade of NIST's efforts in post-quantum
       | cryptography. a seismic shift in the world of cryptography.
        
         | kyoji wrote:
         | Not entirely true, there are other PKE and DSA algorithms that
         | were/are a part of the competition that used problems not
         | related to lattices. However, the lattice-based options were
         | often among the fastest and smallest.
        
           | tux3 wrote:
           | Isogenies vindicated? :)
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | I know you're kidding but for the benefit of the class
             | isogeny schemes were pulled when their best candidate
             | design turned out to be breakable with a Python script
             | owing to obscure non-cryptographic mathematic research from
             | the 1990s.
             | 
             | I'd expect we're not getting isogenies back. :)
        
               | j2kun wrote:
               | I was at a conference with some of these folks recently
               | and they stated some glimmer of hope remains for
               | repairing isogeny-based crypto. I guess we'll see.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | This is the reason why nist did the decade of work - to focus
         | effort on figuring out what options are secure. Finding out an
         | option is not secure is a good thing. Its why we are putting
         | effort into PQC now before quantum computers are a real threat.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | No? One of the side effects of running an open competition is
         | that it focused attention on a variety of competing options for
         | this, all of which were formalized, recorded, and publicly
         | evaluated by the world's academic cryptography experts. We're
         | strictly better off as a result, and _much_ of NIST 's own work
         | would still be valuable even in a hypothetical scenario in
         | which none of LWE was quantum-safe.
        
       | anonymousDan wrote:
       | Some initial Reddit discussion here:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/cryptography/comments/1c0vlfx/the_f...
        
         | JohnKemeny wrote:
         | And a question at crypto.stackexchange:
         | https://crypto.stackexchange.com/q/111385
        
       | dogeprotocol wrote:
       | Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
        
       | axblount wrote:
       | Does this result apply to all LWE problems? Does this approach
       | care about LWE vs Ring-LWE at all?
       | 
       | If so, it's a big blow to systems like FrodoKEM that banked on
       | unstructured lattices providing higher security.
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | Not a lattice expert, so add salt to taste, but it looks like
         | LWE in general (incluring RLWE)
         | 
         | But the current attack essentially wants q > n^2, so even if it
         | is confirmed, not all LWE schemes are dead. There will
         | certainly be people who tweak the params in response and carry
         | on.
         | 
         | However, attacks only get better. And for people in FHE who are
         | squeezed between performance problems and dangerously thin
         | security parameters, it is a bad day if confirmed. There's no
         | credible practical alternative to LWE for FHE...
        
         | j2kun wrote:
         | RingLWE security reduces to LWE via a relatively simple
         | reduction (see https://www.jeremykun.com/2022/12/28/estimating-
         | the-security...).
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | How does this affect these statements on Wikipedia [1]
       | 
       | > some lattice-based constructions appear to be resistant to
       | attack by both classical and quantum computers. Furthermore, many
       | lattice-based constructions are considered to be secure under the
       | assumption that certain well-studied computational lattice
       | problems cannot be solved efficiently.
       | 
       | and [2] ?
       | 
       | > One class of quantum resistant cryptographic algorithms is
       | based on a concept called "learning with errors" introduced by
       | Oded Regev in 2005.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice-based_cryptography
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_learning_with_errors_key_...
        
         | doomrobo wrote:
         | The idea of "appear to be resistant to attack" is an empirical
         | one. When someone says that, they are saying that we simply
         | have not found a good attack against this problem. That can
         | change any day, in principle. Unfortunately, "we don't know of
         | an attack" is about as strong a statement you can make in
         | cryptography, when talking about a fundamental hardness
         | assumption. More verbosely, you'd say "the best known attacks
         | take 2^whatever operations on a computer (classical or
         | quantum), and that's expensive, so we're probably fine unless
         | someone makes a significant leap tomorrow"
        
           | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
           | imo, this isn't quite true. there are a lot of areas where we
           | can say "this looks sufficiently secure for now, but given
           | the rate of advancement in this area in the last decade, we
           | expect it will probably lose a few bits of security in the
           | next decade"
        
         | wbl wrote:
         | Do you know how little we know? We don't even know P isn't
         | PSPACE!
        
       | troq13 wrote:
       | Just a bit more improvement and they might be able to use a
       | computer that doesn't exist to break an encrypting scheme nobody
       | uses. Alarming.
        
         | j2kun wrote:
         | Major systems and big companies like Google are already mid-
         | transition to PQC. So it is alarming.
        
           | anonymousDan wrote:
           | Furthermore this could have implications for fully
           | homomorphic encryption schemes based on lattices. But
           | nonetheless I laughed :)
        
           | AnthonyMouse wrote:
           | More to the point, the purpose of the encrypting system
           | nobody uses is to have something to use if anybody ever makes
           | the computer that doesn't exist. Now if that happens, what?
        
             | tempaway4785751 wrote:
             | We really need to get people to take really complicated
             | risks that might never come to pass much more seriously.
             | Perhaps someone smart can explain the really complicated
             | risks that might never come to pass to the government that
             | doesn't really look beyond the three year time horizon and
             | get them to allocate some of their money that doesn't
             | really exist to help.
        
       | j2kun wrote:
       | I work on homomorphic encryption, and there are some rumors
       | circulating that, if this checks out, it will break some of the
       | leading FHE schemes like BFV, where the moduli used are quite
       | large (in the hundreds of bits or even over a thousand bits).
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-04-11 23:00 UTC)