[HN Gopher] KPMG Fined Record $25M in Exam-Cheating Scandal
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       KPMG Fined Record $25M in Exam-Cheating Scandal
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2024-04-10 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | danlindley wrote:
       | Related shenanigans: KPMG misused confidential Australian
       | government information to help big multinational companies avoid
       | paying more tax (2023)
       | 
       | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-05/pwc-pricewaterhouseco...
        
         | stuzenz wrote:
         | actually, that was PWC - not KPMG. Although I think Deloitte
         | was also implicated in some way
         | 
         | https://www.internationaltaxreview.com/article/2bxqngyds66en...
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | As an outsider, all these firms appear equally (ethically)
           | questionable. Is that correct or are there differences I'm
           | missing out on?
        
             | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
             | Yes, pretty well all of the big firms have one big product
             | they're selling: cover for questionable behaviour.
             | 
             | They usually don't just break the law or cheat out of
             | simple desire to. They're for hire and openly compete with
             | their willingness to "transform", "cut red tape", "do
             | things differently(tm)" which are euphemisms for
             | questionable behaviour, usually at the public's expense but
             | their customer's gain.
        
             | tialaramex wrote:
             | Yes, there were more of these goal audit firms (for legal
             | reasons they are organised as groups of companies not a
             | single large corporation named say KPMG), at first they
             | merged and then a few of them did scandalous things (but
             | they're run by rich old white men so they can't go to jail,
             | the firm going bankrupt is the closest you get, everybody
             | responsible retired wealthy and has no regrets) we're at
             | the point where there are three left, they can count on no
             | real consequences no matter what they do because fewer is
             | just worse and nobody wants to admit that zero might be the
             | correct number.
        
       | doctoring wrote:
       | > "The tests... cover topics such as U.S. audit standards,
       | professional ethics and independence..."
       | 
       | Ethics, you say?
       | 
       | > "...involved hundreds of professionals, including partners and
       | senior leaders such as the now former head of assurance..."
       | 
       | When the scale of these things is so large in a single firm, and
       | only comes to light after 2(!) whistleblowers, it is hard to
       | imagine that it is an isolated incident in the industry.
        
         | joelfried wrote:
         | > "When the scale of these things is so large in a single firm,
         | and only comes to light after 2(!) whistleblowers, it is hard
         | to imagine that it is an isolated incident in the industry."
         | 
         | Why would it be an isolated incident when the penalty is so
         | small?
         | 
         | KPMG's global revenue for 2023 was around $23 billion per DDG.
         | 
         | When your fine for doing business the "wrong" way is around
         | 1/1000th of your revenue, it's hard to see that as a meaningful
         | punishment.
        
           | jonstewart wrote:
           | There's some truth to it but a consulting firm like KPMG is
           | like a feudal empire, comprised of many little fiefdoms, all
           | tasked with earning and growing a certain amount. A $25M fine
           | means whichever department responsible has probably been
           | nuked and won't be doing much of this type of work again.
           | However, you are right that it's not significant enough to
           | change how the emperor's court conducts oversight.
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | The problem with KPMG et al. is that you hire a bunch of
         | Machiavellian grads, arbitrage their time for profit, see who
         | clambers to the top of the pile, then obscenely reward those
         | few folks.
         | 
         | While operating under a corporate structure that explicitly
         | geo-fences liability.
         | 
         | This is not a scheme that intrinsically creates strong ethics.
         | 
         | In the same way that letters of marque weren't.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | > The problem with KPMG et al. is that you hire a bunch of
           | Machiavellian grads
           | 
           | It's not that hard to get hired at KPMG. Going to a semi-
           | decent public Engineering, Accounting, or Business undergrad
           | in the US will guaruntee you a job there.
           | 
           | It's just another audit shop. If we're being honest, almost
           | every person here on HN has also lied about actually doing
           | their Sexual Harassment HR training and SOC Compliance
           | mandated security training and just clicking through then (or
           | writing scripts to bypass the prompts).
           | 
           | The "ethics" exam mentioned is just another one of those
           | types of exams used as an HR CYA.
           | 
           | Edit: the article is about the Netherlands practice. I don't
           | know that much about their hiring practices and prestige in
           | NL and mainland Europe.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | > It's just another audit shop. If we're being honest,
             | almost every person here on HN has also lied about actually
             | doing their Sexual Harassment HR training and SOC
             | Compliance mandated security training and just clicking
             | through then (or writing scripts to bypass the prompts).
             | 
             | Don't skip those:
             | 
             | 1. Not skipping doesn't take much longer than skipping.
             | 
             | 2. Look for the scenarios that are "taken from actual
             | cases" and look up those cases; great way to find some
             | weird shit that has actually happened.
             | 
             | 3. There's plenty of unintentional humor to be mined. The
             | last time I did it, there was a "can you harass your own
             | in-group" section that gave an example of a 1st-generation
             | Punjabi-American harassing a Gujarati immigrant, raising
             | the question of "Is it problematic that the author of this
             | section considers those two individuals to be the same in-
             | group?"
        
               | axus wrote:
               | The first time has some informative content, or at least
               | some ironic clip-art to copy to your next presentation.
               | The 3rd time and on it's just repetitive. Makes me
               | jealous of the Microsoft employees from the other story
               | about training videos.
        
         | belter wrote:
         | Don't imagine too hard...Your big four auditors at work...
         | 
         | "Deloitte accountants "also cheated during exams" -
         | https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/10/deloitte-accountants-also-c...
         | 
         | "Ernst & Young to Pay $100 Million Penalty for Employees
         | Cheating on CPA Ethics Exams and Misleading Investigation" -
         | https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-114
         | 
         | "PwC fined over exam cheating involving 1,100 of its auditors"
         | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30476547
         | 
         | "PwC employees cheating on tests in China just cost the
         | auditing firm $7 million in U.S. fines" -
         | https://fortune.com/asia/2023/12/01/pwc-china-hong-kong-chea...
        
       | mcmcmc wrote:
       | If that's the biggest fine on record, not surprising that they
       | keep breaking rules and trying to cover it up. KPMG cleared $35B
       | last year, this is barely a slap on the wrist.
        
         | epalm wrote:
         | More than that, the article says 36B last fiscal year. 25M is
         | less than 1 tenth of 1 percent.
        
           | HenryBemis wrote:
           | It would be worth checking 1-2 years from now how many
           | clients they lost in the Netherlands. I suppose that an Audit
           | Committee and an ExCo wouldn't like to have as "their
           | auditor" someone who cheats, gets caught, gets fined.
        
             | com wrote:
             | It's irrelevant if you get "value" for the "services
             | rendered" - and that's in the broad, so a little
             | reputational negativity can be nicely countered by a more
             | aggressive tax minimisation approach for example.
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | And the people involved walk away whistling without
         | consequences. It doesn't matter if the fine is 0.1%, 10%, or
         | 50% of yearly revenue if you're not the one paying it.
        
       | louwrentius wrote:
       | I'm listening to "The Big Con" by Mariana Mazzucato and Rosie
       | Collington. This book discusses the state of CONsultancies (EY,
       | KPMG, McKinsey, PWC, Atos, and so on.
       | 
       | Such a worthwhile read. Whatever you expect, it's worse.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | KPMG is primarily an accounting and auditing firm. Same with
         | PWC and EY.
         | 
         | While these companies have recently acquired management
         | consultancies, they tend to firewall them due to accounting
         | firms lack of prestige.
        
           | thundergolfer wrote:
           | EY is banned in Germany from offering accounting services
           | after this scandal:
           | https://www.economist.com/business/2023/04/05/ey-gets-
           | banned....
           | 
           | The others have similar but I think less severe scandals in
           | other countries.
        
         | stijnveken wrote:
         | I'm currently reading through "When McKinsey Comes to Town" in
         | the same vein. I recommend it!
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | They are moral-hazard-for-hire firms. Without their reputation
         | they cannot function. Since govt uses them as much as biz govt
         | has a disincentive to tarnish reputation.
        
         | thundergolfer wrote:
         | I found Mazzucato's _Entrepreneurial State_ argument highly
         | valuable in this day and age. I 'll definitely check out this
         | pod.
         | 
         | Big4 consultancies are decently desirable graduate hirers in my
         | country, despite paying low, demanding long hours, and
         | providing low value training. That's not to mention the
         | malpractice scandals.
         | 
         | The fact that a graduate consultant gig is more respected than
         | teaching roles and government positions shows the rot that's
         | set in over the past 40 years.
        
       | lencastre wrote:
       | Kids playing management gone or something
        
         | I_complete_me wrote:
         | I use the acronym for when I am leaving the house: Keys, phone,
         | money, glasses.
        
         | Cheer2171 wrote:
         | KPMG = Kids Playing Management Games
        
       | shortsunblack wrote:
       | Related shenanigans: KPMG is the leading green-washer
       | 
       | https://www.icij.org/investigations/deforestation-inc/audit-...
        
       | sithlord wrote:
       | Really not sure why the firm is paying fines for this. Seems more
       | like each individual should lose their license.
        
         | badrabbit wrote:
         | Because they use their consultants creds when selling services.
        
       | cosmicvarion wrote:
       | Why doesn't the PCAOB improve the exam process to make this sort
       | of cheating extremely difficult if not impossible? Why are the
       | trainings and examinations being run in house at these firms?
        
         | guidedlight wrote:
         | It's likely all online and all multiple choice.
         | 
         | My (insert large financial company) has mandatory testing too,
         | and there are no strict examination conditions. But nobody
         | cheats.
         | 
         | There is no real consequence if you fail, you just resit it
         | again. At worst you might have to brute force it.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | > Revenue Increase US$36.4 billion (2023)[2]
       | 
       | [2] https://kpmg.com/xx/en/home/media/press-
       | releases/2023/12/glo...
       | 
       | Just the cost of doing business at this point. Until executives
       | and people start going to jail or companies face much worse
       | repercussions. Then this behavior will continue across the market
       | or industry.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | The other missing cost is losing client business. How do
         | clients see the fraud and still trust KPMG? Do you want to hire
         | someone who can't even pass the accreditation test? An
         | organization that tries to pass them off to you?
        
           | Krasnol wrote:
           | Where would they go to?
           | 
           | Which one of the big four are "clean"?
        
             | com wrote:
             | And if you want an easy pass will you go for the cleanest
             | or the least clean?
        
               | Krasnol wrote:
               | This is the way.
        
           | hightrix wrote:
           | I worked at a company that was purchased by KPMG a while ago.
           | On announcement, the first thing I did was a few internet
           | searches.
           | 
           | I immediately started making plans to leave after seeing
           | countless fraud cases against this company. I did not want to
           | be associated with them.
           | 
           | So, they at least lost one software developer because of
           | their practices. Possibly others.
        
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