[HN Gopher] Cow Magnets
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cow Magnets
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 416 points
       Date   : 2024-04-09 17:45 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.stanfordmagnets.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.stanfordmagnets.com)
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | I assume they're recovered, cleaned and sterilized, and offered
       | for sale after slaughter.
        
         | rottencupcakes wrote:
         | https://www.ebay.com/itm/295122032671
         | 
         | For your enjoyment.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | I'm happy to say that the cow magnets I saw as a kid were
           | more shiny, and (I hope) not used.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | I'm getting flashbacks to "drop & run"
        
         | bap wrote:
         | My father owned a rural feed store until I was 6 or 7 years old
         | (the early 80's.)
         | 
         | Other than incubators full of chicks and ducklings, and bottle
         | feeding young livestock fresh from auction - swiping cow
         | magnets off the shelf to play with was a favorite pass-time. :)
         | 
         | In those days I can't imagine anyone really cared what happened
         | to the magnets after they went into the cow.
         | 
         | Perhaps something happens in the slaughter house to clear out
         | whatever has gotten into the gut and stomachs - for the sake of
         | meat grinding machinery?
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | I mean, you don't want the magnets, or any nails or what not
           | they've picked up, to go into any separated products. And
           | separating them from the guts shouldn't be too hard -- they'd
           | be attracted to metal, after all. The question would be how
           | rapidly they degrade.
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | I think tripe is the only use an industrial abattoir would
           | have for the stomach and that's likely to be handled by a
           | human. My guess is that they have a bucket or something that
           | they put foreign material into.
           | 
           | Hmmm, but I wasn't thinking of pet food: that would probably
           | be ground.
        
         | kokanator wrote:
         | My father worked in a slaughterhouse. The magnets were often
         | recovered in the gut room ( the place where they process guts
         | and hides for the rendering house ). As a result I had/have a
         | pile of these magnets. They actually come in several different
         | forms. I had a few that were covered with some type of plastic
         | and a few others that simply looked like the rough magnets you
         | might find on the back of a fridge magnet just larger. My guess
         | is the farmer would use whatever was actually cheap and
         | available regardless of whether they were "cow magnets".
        
       | Wistar wrote:
       | I lived in a rural area growing up and it was not uncommon to
       | come across the cow magnets in fields, sides-of-road, and so on.
       | I think I still have a couple of them stowed away somewhere in my
       | pack-ratty shelves. I recall that they were not very strong
       | magnets.
        
         | zikduruqe wrote:
         | I used to play with them like Rattle Magnets.
         | 
         | https://www.poundfun.com/cdn/shop/files/RattleMagnets.png?v=...
         | 
         | They weren't as fun, but same principle.
        
         | rlonstein wrote:
         | A great-uncle had a dairy farm. We played with the magnets too.
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | My local co-op had them as impulse items at the checkstand. I
         | seem to remember them costing as much as a candy bar, and my
         | parents giving in and getting me a few. IIRC, they were
         | slightly stronger than ceramic magnets, and much less brittle.
        
         | lardo wrote:
         | Some of my fondest childhood memories are summer visits to my
         | great uncles farm. Playing with a cow magnet in the dirt under
         | the bench grinder in the tractor barn is one of them. I
         | remember them being strong, but I was 10.
        
         | 542458 wrote:
         | > I recall that they were not very strong magnets.
         | 
         | I have one on my desk right now, and it's pretty strong!
         | They're historically made from Alnico alloys, which were the
         | strongest type of permanent magnet until rare earth magnets
         | were discovered.
        
       | ethbr1 wrote:
       | Human healthcare would be much more affordable if it operated on
       | the veterinary model.
       | 
       | 'Nails cause problems when they pass through a bovine digestive
       | tract.'
       | 
       | 'Well, let's keep them from passing by feeding cows a magnet.'
       | 
       | Problem practically solved.
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | "Cancer treatment is expensive."
         | 
         | "Kill the patient"
         | 
         | Problem practically solved?
         | 
         | Much more affordable, sure, but not better in any other
         | measure.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | Vets don't put down animals needlessly, but they do practice
           | medicine closer to engineering.
           | 
           | There's always a cost-benefit calculation, and the answer
           | should never be 'Whatever the cost.'
        
             | naikrovek wrote:
             | > There's always a cost-benefit calculation, and the answer
             | should never be 'Whatever the cost.'
             | 
             | You think like an insurance company: completely detached
             | from reality.
        
               | dgacmu wrote:
               | No, there literally is always a tradeoff, even in human
               | medicine. I was at my doctor's office yesterday because
               | I'm an idiot and injured myself. I asked about the
               | diagnostic advantages of getting an MRI vs an x-ray for
               | the injury (sciatic pain, probably from an injury to my
               | piriformis; don't snowboard on the east coast). The MRI
               | might have provided better diagnostics, but the x-ray
               | (much faster, at lower cost, but at some radiation
               | exposure to me) ruled out the really serious stuff, and
               | the treatment plan was the same regardless. So: Tradeoff.
               | It was, IMO, both financially and ethically better to use
               | the low-resource diagnostic modality instead of tying up
               | the rare and expensive one, even though it gave me a bit
               | of radiation that in an ideal case I wouldn't have had.
        
               | wpietri wrote:
               | For sure. During my mom's cancer treatment, these things
               | came up too. E.g., In going through some options, her
               | neuro-oncologist mentioned one drug, Avastin I think,
               | which would have been something like $100k. In his
               | estimation was unlikely to make any difference in her
               | prognosis, and at best would have been a difference of
               | days of lifespan. She was on Medicare, so it was no cost
               | to us either way, but we all felt like it would have been
               | a waste of money.
               | 
               | At some point during this process it became clear to me
               | that a "whatever the cost" approach is understandable but
               | wrong. We're all going to die. If an intervention can
               | restore somebody to health, to give them years of a good
               | life, that's great. But an awful lot of money is spent on
               | what seemed to me like prolonging the misery. That's not
               | something I want for myself, and it's definitely not
               | something my mom wanted. So as long as there was some
               | hope of more good time, we fought and fought hard. But
               | when hope ran out, we were off to hospice with no
               | regrets. She died peacefully, surrounded by loved ones.
               | It was a much better death than having a lot of futile
               | last-minute interventions.
               | 
               | Speaking of which, if this makes sense to you, _make
               | sure_ your loved ones know your preferences. We had all
               | done living wills years before, and it was such a balm to
               | know exactly what she wanted. I 've used Five Wishes for
               | this, and I'm told there are other, possibly better
               | options now too.
        
               | vba616 wrote:
               | >It was a much better death than having a lot of futile
               | last-minute interventions.
               | 
               | It's easy to say that sort of thing, so everyone does. It
               | makes plenty of sense.
               | 
               | People don't want to die in the hospital or go through
               | hell in their last days or weeks.
               | 
               | But nobody wants to die _right now_ , ever. No matter
               | what they said before or what papers they signed.
               | 
               | The standard picture, the logic, makes perfect
               | crystalline sense up until there is a choice between
               | going to the hospital right now and living an undefined
               | amount of time, maybe only a day or a week, but longer
               | than the next few minutes.
        
               | wpietri wrote:
               | Sorry, but this is incorrect:
               | 
               | > But nobody wants to die right now, ever. No matter what
               | they said before or what papers they signed.
               | 
               | Plenty of people recognize when it's time. When my mom
               | was diagnosed with glioblastoma, her surgeon said, "This
               | is what you will die from." That's hard to hear, but
               | people can definitely take it on board. To realize that
               | it's not a choice of whether, just how. Take, Brittany
               | Maynard, who had the same thing my mom did:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittany_Maynard
               | 
               | I can go as far as agreeing that American culture has a
               | lot of collective anxiety about death, and a consequent
               | refusal to deal with is calmly. But there are plenty of
               | other approaches to that. Like the European movement
               | known as Death Cafe:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Cafe
               | 
               | Or the (sadly now defunct) Zen Hospice here in SF:
               | https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-zen-hospice-
               | projec...
               | 
               | Many things in our lives can be scary. But we can shape
               | our relationships to them. And given that death comes to
               | all of us, I think it's worth taking the time to get on
               | good terms with it.
        
               | vba616 wrote:
               | >Plenty of people recognize when it's time.
               | 
               | Thank you for being relatively polite.
               | 
               | All of the replies to my original comment have veered off
               | from what I tried to express with the phrase "right now".
               | 
               | I was alluding to a situation with rapid terminal cancer
               | much later than diagnosis, but earlier than morphine +
               | the end of communication. The fentanyl or oxycontin
               | stage, as I recall it.
               | 
               | I think most likely if you are ever so slightly insulated
               | from such a situation, you might not realize it.
               | 
               | Having a parent die of cancer when you are ~7 may not
               | prepare you for having a parent die of cancer when you
               | are ~37. That is how I see it now.
        
               | sojournerc wrote:
               | My mom (and my brothers and I) chose hospice (cancer)
               | during COVID so she could be with her friends and family
               | in her dying days.
               | 
               | She stopped eating and drinking because she knew it was
               | time. That was a sort of last gift, not having to see her
               | languish for weeks.(although I will never stop being
               | bitter about being unable to have a proper funeral and
               | memorial service).
        
               | PawgerZ wrote:
               | > But nobody wants to die right now, ever
               | 
               | The current suicide rates say otherwise
        
               | kortilla wrote:
               | This is completely false. You've clearly not been around
               | dying people with really painful diseases.
               | 
               | I've witnessed two elderly people in my family with
               | cancer in severe pain just ride a morphine drip waiting
               | in anticipation for death. The only reason they didn't
               | euthanize is because it isn't legal.
        
               | vba616 wrote:
               | The "right now" whereof I spoke is basically any crisis
               | during a quickly progressing terminal cancer after the
               | oxycontin starts and before the morphine.
               | 
               | When a person can speak, and change their mind, and
               | everyone involved in care isn't present at a particular
               | instant or on the same page with what to do.
               | 
               | If that clarifies.
        
               | pjerem wrote:
               | You are interpreting this wrongly. It's not because there
               | is a cost-benefit that the cost for a high benefit can't
               | be high.
               | 
               | Healthcare budget is not infinite but in most countries,
               | it's high enough per operation that, for a given
               | individual, it's virtually infinite.
               | 
               | Insurance companies don't care about the benefit, they
               | just want the cost to be low, it's not the same thing.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | > _Insurance companies don't care about the benefit, they
               | just want the cost to be low, it's not the same thing._
               | 
               | Also underappreciated, at the end of the day:
               | {insurance premiums} >= {average cost of care}
               | 
               | The actuarial calculations don't change because they're
               | concealed behind group-blended risk.
               | 
               | If cost of care increases, premiums must increase as
               | well.
        
               | refurb wrote:
               | I work in healthcare economics and this is false.
               | 
               | There are no healthcare system in the world where the
               | budget is "high enough to be virtually infinite".
               | 
               | All health systems are all heavily, heavily constrained
               | by budget. The US system is the least constrained (i.e.
               | if you want the latest cancer care paid for, the US is
               | the place with the highest probability it'll happen), but
               | since there are thousands of insurance plans it's not
               | even and any two patients may have plans that make
               | different trade offs.
               | 
               | And governments do the _very similar math_ as the
               | insurance companies when it comes to cost-benefit
               | analyses - that's how they design their benefit
               | offerings.
               | 
               | The difference between systems like Canada (with
               | universal care) and the US is that in Canada the end user
               | doesnt see how the sausage is made.
               | 
               | That's because the trade offs are the same for everyone
               | and doctors know a given trade off has been made and the
               | technology that is not paid for is just not even brought
               | up to the patient.
        
               | neon5077 wrote:
               | No, the reality is that an animal is usually an asset. It
               | costs X to feed and maintain an animal over its life to
               | achieve Y amount of profit from its sale or the sale of
               | its products. If X plus medical costs is greater than Y,
               | you're losing money on this animal.
               | 
               | Tripling the amount you pay the vet does not increase the
               | final profit margin of the animal, so you simply do not.
               | If basic treatment costs more than the animal will
               | generate in its life, you don't treat the animal.
               | 
               | Thinking that any random farm animal is worth infinite
               | medical resources is completely detached from reality.
               | The animal is _not_ worth it. There 's not one single
               | reason to pay more to maintain an animal than the money
               | you get out of it. Not in this context.
        
             | 082349872349872 wrote:
             | Vets have an elevated suicide rate, which I ascribe to
             | three factors:
             | 
             | - they can self-prescribe
             | 
             | - they commonly use, unlike human doctors, euthanasia to
             | end suffering
             | 
             | - they became vets because they really like animals, but
             | many owners seem more concerned with their pocketbooks
             | 
             | Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChwFoCxVC8
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Self-prescription is definitely part of it, but farmers
               | have brutal suicide rates too.
               | 
               | Social isolation + a business where the business often
               | runs counter to your moral preferences = a tough life for
               | both
               | 
               | The "maybe next year" line gets me every time:
               | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRDaPEaDJ7E
        
               | AnotherGoodName wrote:
               | From experience with a vet in the family it's very much a
               | 'who the fuck in their right mind would do this?!' type
               | of career to anyone that has the ability to ask a vet
               | their honest opinion about their career choice.
               | 
               | It's literally a medical science degree with a
               | speciality. The same degree that can get you a very
               | highly paid jobs elsewhere yet it doesn't pay that well.
               | You'll likely end up in a poorly paid 24hour live-in
               | clinic with horrible pay and hours surrounded by
               | euthanasia and the associated grief non-stop all the
               | while with those same drugs sitting there. The mortality
               | rate is so horrific that news of another suicide from the
               | graduating year becomes a 'we've lost yet another one'
               | type of statistic.
               | 
               | It's not often you ask someone to give a late teen
               | thoughts on their upcoming career choice and have them
               | rightfully say 'Don't! It's not worth it!' but this
               | literally happened with vet science in my family.
        
               | peterleiser wrote:
               | I had the same experience when doing a career report in
               | junior highschool. I spoke to a vet who had graduated
               | from UC Davis a few years prior and they did everything
               | in their power to talk me out of becoming one.
        
               | GlenTheMachine wrote:
               | Yes, and also the human owners are increasingly crazy. As
               | in, they want the same kind of unlimited care a human
               | would get, but don't want to pay for it and take it out
               | on the vet when presented with the bill.
               | 
               | You never really been Karened until you've been crazy cat
               | lady Karened.
        
               | plowjockey wrote:
               | I wonder if this occurs more with small animal vets--"pet
               | vets"?
               | 
               | I know of a number of large animal vets that retired and
               | enjoyed many years of retirement. Perhaps being in the
               | large animal practice where decisions are made on
               | economics and not emotions helps them survive. Those vets
               | also did small animals but it was probably more of a
               | sideline for them.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | There's some crazy in equine vet work - the racing side
               | can be a bit brutal with some exposure to criminal
               | elements (not extensive but in places it can be hard to
               | avoid) and the crazy horse lady types can drive vets to
               | drink; these are people that love horses, collect horses,
               | but can't afford to feed them or bear to see them put
               | down, etc.
               | 
               | In general though large animal rural vet work is smoother
               | sailing than the small stuff (from conversations I've had
               | thanks to a farm background and to having developed a bit
               | of animal history recording software for agistment | stud
               | records some decades back).
        
               | d1sxeyes wrote:
               | They can't really self-prescribe though, they are not
               | allowed to prescribe drugs to humans. In fact, in many
               | jurisdictions, doctors are legally allowed to self-
               | prescribe.
               | 
               | Perhaps the difference is that vets can both prescribe
               | and dispense drugs, while human doctors often need to
               | have a pharmacist dispense the drugs.
        
               | 082349872349872 wrote:
               | not entirely coincidentally, Corb Lund _also_ has a song
               | about off-label use:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5geefvMDjME
        
           | _heimdall wrote:
           | That's not a great analogy. There are plenty of alternative
           | treatments for cancer, and speaking of cattle there were
           | actually Mayo Clinic doctors in the early 1900s using raw
           | milk diets to treat serious conditions including cancer.
           | 
           | A more apt comparison here would be vets throwing
           | pharmaceuticals and radiation at cows who ingested metals
           | rather than a more simple solution intervention.
        
           | non-chalad wrote:
           | Might we interest you in M.A.I.D? (1)
           | 
           | 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/canad
           | a-...
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | Full-disclosure: personally I'm a big supporter of an
             | individual's right to choose to end their own life in a
             | medically-facilitated manner.
             | 
             | There's something weird about letting people who are happy
             | with life (read: society) choose to force someone who isn't
             | to continue living, against their wishes.
        
               | non-chalad wrote:
               | Governmemt should not be involved in ending someone's
               | life; Not at their own choosing, nor at forcing them to
               | continue living.
        
               | ninjanomnom wrote:
               | The alternatives then are self service, or private
               | businesses providing assistance? If we want to endorse
               | the former then educating people on the best way to
               | painlessly end their life might be a good idea, the
               | latter though seems like a bad idea with some very badly
               | aligned incentives.
        
           | hoseja wrote:
           | "Cancer is terminal."
           | 
           | "Bankrupt and undignify the patient and their family with
           | needless, hopeless treatment."
           | 
           | Humane, functional american healthcare.
        
         | nrml_amnt wrote:
         | Make an appointment at a VA clinic
        
           | non-chalad wrote:
           | Wrong kind of vet.
        
         | apitman wrote:
         | What do you call a veterinarian that only treats a single
         | species?
         | 
         | A medical doctor.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | The vet that I went to _only_ handled cats. Every vet in that
           | practice was a cat specialist, every room was designed with
           | cats in mind, and everyone who worked the front desk was a
           | cat lover themselves.
           | 
           | While the joke is there, there are single species veterinary
           | practices.
           | 
           | https://catcareclinic.net
           | 
           | https://citydogvet.com
        
             | Ichthypresbyter wrote:
             | Plus of course all of the horse specialists, particularly
             | around the racing industry.
        
               | kstenerud wrote:
               | And no one can talk to a horse, of course.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | hmm, but there _are_ whisperers.
        
               | 48864w6ui wrote:
               | Wait, what? Have you actually seen Mr Ed on a broadcast
               | medium?
        
         | dexwiz wrote:
         | Veterinary models assume fairly limited lifespans and are
         | economically focused, especially for large animals. If we
         | followed that model it would probably assume no issues past 65
         | matters, because death and retirement would be the same. Also
         | any issue that costs more to treat than the remaining economic
         | output of that person would result in a trip to the glue
         | factory.
         | 
         | Animals often have relatively short lifespans. For cows its
         | about 2 years for beef and 6 years for dairy. Would these
         | methods work for animals that live more than a decade?
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | There's also an acceptance in the veterinary profession,
           | partly because of the economics that you describe, that 75%
           | effectiveness at 25% of the cost is a good deal.
           | 
           | Yet for people medicine that's anathema.
           | 
           | Instead, we hide the cruel economic reality behind
           | intermediaries (insurance companies, public hospitals, etc.)
           | and then are shocked when it still leaks out.
           | 
           | No country without infinite money can afford to spend
           | whatever it takes, on everyone, forever.
        
           | bborud wrote:
           | For livestock, yes. For pets, not so much. People spend
           | stupid amounts of money on their pets and expect results.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | > For cows its about 2 years for beef
           | 
           | Auguste Escoffier said that 2 years was much too young; you
           | couldn't make good beef stock from such young bones. He said
           | that you had to go to France to get 5-year-old stock bones,
           | the British slaughtered them too young. This was in the early
           | 20thC.
        
             | tedunangst wrote:
             | And what influence has the esteemed M. Escoffier's treatise
             | had on the modern ranching industry?
        
             | saalweachter wrote:
             | What, he couldn't get an old dairy cow or something for his
             | stock pot?
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | USDA graded beef is 30-42 months. 3 years +/- 0.5.
        
           | jaredhallen wrote:
           | A note on terminology. Where I come from, at leat, a "cow" is
           | a mature female breeding animal. We'd expect at least ten
           | years out of such an animal, barring any unforeseen
           | circumstances. A young, immature female would be referred to
           | as a heifer. When the "cows" "calve" each year, obviously
           | some of the calves are male and some are female. Most of the
           | males will be castrated at a young age, for the purpose of
           | preventing testosterone from negatively impacting the
           | musculature in relation to meat quality. A castrated bull is
           | referred to as a steer. A steer will almost certainly be
           | raised for slaughter, and for that particular animal, an
           | 18-24 month lifespan is a good estimate. A heifer may either
           | be raised for slaughter, or may be added to the breeding
           | herd. So their lifespan depends. Then there are bulls, who
           | are males who are left intact. These are relatively rare, and
           | their lifespans are shorter than a "cow," because their main
           | purpose is breeding and they become less effective at that
           | job over time. But longer than an animal that's sent to
           | slaughter. Maybe 6 years or so. But the bulls probably don't
           | affect the average too much.
        
           | julian_t wrote:
           | Veterinary models also assume that the subject can't sue you.
        
         | ajuc wrote:
         | Human healthcare is pretty affordable when it's not absurdly
         | misinsentivized and mismanaged.
        
           | non-chalad wrote:
           | Is it too much to ask for that I want to be the customer
           | paying the treatment, instead of the insurance agency? Put
           | the incentives where they count.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | You can, if you can afford it. Few can afford emergencies.
        
               | non-chalad wrote:
               | I mean, insurance should pay the patient, so the doctors
               | are incentivized to serve the patient.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | Golly Gump swallowed a fly
        
       | deanresin wrote:
       | I now know what a cow magnet is.
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | Disappointingly, it's not a magnet that attracts cows.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | I've tried so hard to not make a joke about magnets fed to
           | baby chickens, but you pushed me over the edge.
        
             | drpixie wrote:
             | In Australia, a "chick magnet" is a large attention seeking
             | car owned by a young guy. It is intended to attract girls
             | (chicks). It always has a serious stereo, and probably has
             | a modified exhaust.
             | 
             | Young guys spend a fortune on their "chick magnet",
             | presumably to indicate that they could spend a fortune on
             | potential girlfriends. The desired outcome often fails to
             | eventuate - many "chick magnets" are only driven up and
             | down the main street occupied by the single owner and his
             | single friends ;)
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | In the US a "chick magnet" usually refers to a person who
               | can attract women, but it can also refer to an accessory
               | (including a car) with such a desired purpose.
        
         | ec109685 wrote:
         | As well as hardware disease.
        
       | plowjockey wrote:
       | While we had vets put magnets down cows over the years, my
       | parents were too frugal to let me have one!
       | 
       | There are two primary ways steel gets into the feed supply. A
       | silage chopper can pick it up and cut it into fine bits or a hay
       | baler picks up a stray end of wire and running large bales into a
       | tub grinder to more easily mix feed stocks into a total mixed
       | ration will chop the stray wire (and other parts) into moderately
       | short bits.
       | 
       | Many feed wagons have strong magnets under the discharge chute
       | and grinder/mixers (used to grind grain and supplements) have
       | likewise strong magnets just before the material enters the
       | hammer mill. Despite that some bits will slip by due to the
       | volume of material passing over the magnets as it comes out of
       | the feed wagon.
       | 
       | We do have the vets administer magnets to the heifers we keep at
       | around 9 months of age. One has to watch to be sure they don't
       | work them back up and spit them out! A couple of years ago we had
       | some that did that.
       | 
       | Symptoms of hardware is usually a cow "off feed" meaning she is
       | not coming to the bunk to eat with the rest but usually stands
       | apart and in acute cases will become hunched back. A veterinarian
       | can usually diagnose it with a stethoscope as I think the
       | breathing becomes labored in more acute cases.
        
         | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
         | > my parents were too frugal to let me have one!
         | 
         | Your parents wouldn't let you swallow neodymium magnets?
        
           | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
           | Frugality first safety second
        
           | throw_a_grenade wrote:
           | Now that you have come of age, you can proceed to ingest the
           | damn magnet. Free yourself from the chains _(sic)_ of the
           | patriarchate!
        
           | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
           | Honestly it looks fun
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | It's fine if you swallow one. If you swallow two or more then
           | you should probably go to the ER immediately.
        
           | plowjockey wrote:
           | I probably didn't state that all that well. If I had really
           | wanted one I'm sure I would have been provided one. It's
           | equally quite possible that since they had to be obtained
           | from a veterinarian that it never occurred to me to ask for
           | one.
           | 
           | OTOH, I did destroy a couple of old radios to get the speaker
           | magnets. If I could go back in time I'd grab those old radios
           | before I'd have a chance to destroy them. Back then they were
           | just that--old radios--with no value and certainly not worth
           | fixing. Sigh...
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | > Many feed wagons have strong magnets under the discharge
         | chute..
         | 
         | Even though I understand it's 1/r^2 this summoned a vision of a
         | cow magnetically stuck to the discharge tube at her neck, with
         | the head pushed up and mooing unhappily.
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | I think the force is actually 1/r^4.
           | 
           | The magnetic field is proportional to 1/r^3. But the linear
           | force is not proportional to it. (Rotations are.)
        
             | planede wrote:
             | It's 1/r^4 for magnetic dipoles, where both have fixed a
             | fixed dipole moment. So it's 1/r^4 between two permanent
             | magnets.
             | 
             | Where one object is a permanent magnet and the other is
             | some unmagnetized ferromagnetic/paramagnetic piece metal,
             | then the dipole moment of that piece of metal also depends
             | on the distance. Assuming it's proportional to the magnetic
             | field of the other dipole (~1/r^3) then the force is going
             | to be ~1/r^7 for this pair of objects.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | Oh, that's right.
               | 
               | But magnetization is famously path-dependent, so now I'm
               | tending to believe the force will be closer to 1/r^7 when
               | moving on the direction of the magnet, but 1/r^4 when
               | moving away. And not exactly any of those functions.
        
               | planede wrote:
               | Do you mean that the ferromagnetic material gets
               | magnetized and retains some magnetization while moving
               | away?
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | Yes.
        
         | SubiculumCode wrote:
         | Got one once. Nice strong magnet with an odd shape....you can
         | just imagine it going down the gullet.
        
         | peterleiser wrote:
         | That's too bad. My parents were farmers and my dad brought some
         | home one day, even though we no longer had cattle when we lived
         | on our ranch. He thought I'd like to play with them, and he was
         | right! Even my friends who weren't from farm families thought
         | they were cool. I'm going to order some for my kids. These were
         | the classic ones in the 1980's:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_disease#/media/File...
        
         | wyclif wrote:
         | Alnico magnets are the same type of magnets used in vintage
         | electric guitar pickups.
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | I guess I still can't read, because I couldn't find the link to
       | their actual products, they are a magnet vendor after all. Very
       | confusing. I had to search for it, but [1] must be linked to
       | somewhere in the article, right?
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.stanfordmagnets.com/alnico-cow-magnets.html
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | I don't imagine it's an industry that sees much opportunity in
         | converting impulse buyers.
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | I learned about these accidentally last year and thought they
         | were hilarious, so I bought some here:
         | 
         | https://www.magnetsource.com/collections/cow-magnets-ru-mast...
         | 
         | I'm neither a veterinarian nor a cow, so I don't know how fit
         | for purpose they are, but to me they seem well made.
        
       | mhuffman wrote:
       | Cow magnets are great refrigerator magnets! Very cheap, can be
       | used at different angles, and stronger than pretty much any other
       | refrigerator magnet.
        
         | mgerdts wrote:
         | A few decades back I fabricated and wired industrial controls.
         | While wiring, we used cow magnets to attach the blueprints to
         | the open cabinet doors so that they were always within sight
         | was we strung wires between PLCs, terminal blocks, relays,
         | buttons, etc.
         | 
         | Even when there were several pages of blueprint stapled
         | together a few cow magnets tended to hold them in place. You
         | just had to be sure to orient them such that they didn't roll
         | down the door.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | The magnets designed for glass whiteboards are arguably too
         | powerful for working as a refrigerator magnet. I was able to
         | pin a 100 page paperback book to the fridge with one of
         | these[1]. For fridges I recommend these[2], which are $8-15 for
         | a ten-pack and plenty strong (plus the shape makes them easy to
         | grab).
         | 
         | 1: https://amazingmagnets.com/product-category/large-pawn-
         | magne...
         | 
         | 2: https://amazingmagnets.com/product-category/WB-Series-
         | Whiteb...
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | I feel like in an argumentive mood. I like very strong fridge
           | magnets. They can hold thicker items.
        
             | hoseja wrote:
             | Why do you want to affix thick articles to your fridge
             | door.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Oh, I have a few for just such a reason. I just don't want
             | to unconditionally recommend them to someone without also
             | saying that they are probably overkill.
             | 
             | I also use male-threaded magnets and wingnuts to hold my
             | cable-management pegboard to the bottom of my desk. There I
             | went extra strong because I don't expect them to ever be
             | moved.
        
       | pierrec wrote:
       | " _Cow magnets cannot be passed through a cow's 4th bonivial
       | meta-colon_ "
       | 
       | Hah, "bonivial meta-colon" does not even _resemble_ any real
       | combination of words. Sure, cows have multiple stomachs, but come
       | on. Now I 'm wondering how many joke sentences are mixed in. And
       | I almost believed the bonivial meta-colon because "Stanford" is
       | in the domain name :)
        
         | wzdd wrote:
         | Apparently it's been there for a while: the Wikipedia talk page
         | for this topic has someone pointing this out in 2009.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Cow Magnets_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10176652 -
       | Sept 2015 (71 comments)
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Administer no more than an odd number less than 2!
        
       | inasio wrote:
       | Our local hackspace occasionally gets donations from Amazon,
       | often very random things. One time we got a box full of these cow
       | magnets. They're pretty strong, have mostly been used as fridge
       | magnets though
        
       | Bob_LaBLahh wrote:
       | I wonder if there is any correlation between cattle containing
       | cow magnets and the strange phenomena of cattle tending to align
       | themselves on a north/south axis.
       | 
       | I'm guessing that the answer is "not much" since deer lineup too
       | and they (probably) don't have magnets in their stomachs.
       | 
       | I still think this deserves the Mythbusters treatment, right?
       | 
       | https://www.npr.org/2009/03/16/101945271/power-lines-upset-c...
        
         | AnotherGoodName wrote:
         | I wonder if it's as simple as wanting to catch the most sun
         | hence a north south orientation to expose the flanks and the
         | shadows from high voltage towers interfere with this hence the
         | difference under those towers.
        
           | RoyalHenOil wrote:
           | This sounds like the likely explanation. Crop rows and
           | greenhouses are generally aligned North-South for the same
           | reason: to maximize direct sun exposure.
        
           | flysand7 wrote:
           | I found the relevant research:
           | https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.0803650105
           | 
           | > Furthermore, there was no correlation between the position
           | of roe deer and the time of day when the observation took
           | place, meaning that the position of the sun had no influence
           | on deer orientation.
           | 
           | Although I'm not sure how credible this information is given
           | that they studied google images where who knows what time of
           | day they are taking images at. Maybe there was a correlation.
        
             | Bob_LaBLahh wrote:
             | Thank you! My curious but busy/lazy ass wanted to know the
             | answer but wasn't gonna do the legwork.
        
             | d1sxeyes wrote:
             | It should be fairly possible to determine the time an
             | aerial photograph was taken by studying the angle cast by
             | shadows in the photograph.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | My first though would be a wind, which you can't measure
             | with photos.
        
         | plowjockey wrote:
         | I admit that I've never noticed that. They seem to lay whatever
         | direction seems comfortable. In winter time the will lay east-
         | west to catch the most warmth and will often roll on their side
         | to really catch some rays.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | Why would a cow magnet settle in the rumen any particular cow
         | related orientation?
        
         | beAbU wrote:
         | I've not read up any studies or papers on this matter. I've
         | lived around farm animals for a large part of my life so I have
         | some anecdotal observations.
         | 
         | From what I've seen, they tend to align themselves into the
         | _most pleasant_ direction depending on the weather conditions
         | of the moment.
         | 
         | - Cold but sunny: Broadside towards the sun
         | 
         | - Wind or rain: back-side towards the direction of origin,
         | heads hung low. So they stand with their butts in the wind to
         | shield their heads against the worst of it.
         | 
         | - Very hot: Butts toward the sun, heads hung low. Often they'll
         | arrange themselves in lines in order to hide in one another's
         | shade.
         | 
         | I've never witnessed them being aligned north-south in a way
         | that can't be explained by the immediate weather conditions.
         | 
         | This was in the southern hemisphere.
        
         | dixie_land wrote:
         | This reminds me of the study that concludes dogs shit on north-
         | south orientation (that's why they circle)
        
       | connectsnk wrote:
       | Am I the only one who is thinking that cows must feel terrible
       | their whole lives.
        
         | ornornor wrote:
         | That's one of the reasons why many of us refuse to eat them (or
         | any other animal)
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | By eating them you shorten the length of time they stay
           | miserable.
        
             | caditinpiscinam wrote:
             | "a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food"
        
             | albrewer wrote:
             | By eating them you contribute to the overall demand for new
             | beef, thereby perpetuating the cycle of bovine misery.
        
           | cryptonector wrote:
           | Humans are carnivores. Like felines, canines, etc. But it is
           | tough, yes, to be a carnivore when these animals are so
           | lovable and loving. As a beekeeper it's hard to to steal my
           | bees' honey. But... I still do it.
        
             | ornornor wrote:
             | Doesn't have to be this way though. We're not obligate
             | carnivores, you can eat no animal product for decades and
             | be just fine.
        
               | cryptonector wrote:
               | I don't think this is true. I mean, yes, we can not eat
               | meat, but I don't believe that not eating animal protein
               | produces equivalent results to eating animal protein.
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | I disagree on that point, I think it's totally possible
               | to live healthily without eating anything that comes from
               | an animal.
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | Maybe this will be of your interest:
               | https://youtu.be/iSpglxHTJVM
        
         | eitland wrote:
         | I think it varies a lot fromncow to cow (and from farm to
         | farm).
         | 
         | I grew up on a (small) farm and we liked them and were fond of
         | them and they seemed to be the same.
         | 
         | Yes, they were absolutely overjoyed when I took them to the
         | pasture at the start of the summer, but no, they didn't seem to
         | bother extremely much when I collected the after the summer.
        
           | brewtide wrote:
           | Letting them out in the spring and seeing these large,
           | generally "lumbering" animals run, hop, and frolic in
           | enjoyment is a scene one never forgets.
        
       | cwillu wrote:
       | This is why cow tools aren't made of metal.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | Maybe we've been wrong all along about toddlers swallowing
       | magnets? ;)
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | Unfortunately not, some arrangements can pinch together
         | sections of the gut as they pass through and that's a very big
         | problem. No reticulum in toddlers. Rumination is preserved for
         | thoughts only when they get bigger.
        
           | BrandonMarc wrote:
           | ... and for _that_ kind of rumination, we have therapists to
           | help out.
        
           | deepspace wrote:
           | Specifically, swallowing ONE magnet is probably fine, since
           | children do not tend to eat metal frequently. Swallowing
           | multiple strong magnets brings the risk of pinching (and
           | necrotizing) sections of the gut.
        
       | repiret wrote:
       | Incidentally, you often put magnets in a hydraulic sump for much
       | the same reason.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | That's what this reminded me of too. Very common to have one in
         | the oil pan, transmission pan, and rear axle, often built into
         | the drain plug, to catch metal debris.
        
       | block_dagger wrote:
       | How we treat these animals is horrific. We force feed them
       | magnets to counteract the effects of our domination over them.
        
         | eitland wrote:
         | The thing is cows eat metal while grazing freely too.
         | 
         | I have a background in farming and there has been cases of cows
         | ingesting rather weird things absolutely on their own.
         | 
         | One case I remember hearing about was a cow eating a pack of
         | leftover bolts from construction teams.
        
           | block_dagger wrote:
           | Part of the domination I speak of is the pollution of
           | hardware we carelessly leave for other species to suffer
           | from.
        
         | bsza wrote:
         | How we treat these animals is a blessing compared to how Mother
         | Nature would treat them. We protect them from parasites,
         | bacterial infections, malnutrition, rabies, predators, the
         | weather, physical injuries and yes, ingesting things they're
         | not supposed to.
        
         | 6bb32646d83d wrote:
         | I don't know. I feel like a cow without humans is most likely
         | to end up being slowly tear apart by a predator
        
       | destitude wrote:
       | This isn't just about the feed. I once saw the remains of some
       | cattle that got hit by a train and was dumbfounded by the amount
       | of trash they had eaten. You'd be surprised by what they will eat
       | and if the farm is pretty "trashy" that ends up in the cattle as
       | well.
        
         | plowjockey wrote:
         | They are very curious. As they can't just pick something up to
         | examine it, they do the next thing which is to sniff it and
         | then taste it. At that point it's on a one way trip down the
         | gullet!
         | 
         | Other times they try to eat things they shouldn't like "hedge
         | apples" which are the "fruit" of Osage Orange, a.k.a. hedge
         | trees. These apples will start falling to the ground during
         | late summer and early fall and for whatever reason cattle like
         | to eat them. After they lay for a while they get mushy and
         | there is usually no problem but early on they're hard and can
         | get lodged on the way down or on the way back up when they chew
         | their cud. Usually it takes a stiff hose to clear the blockage
         | and after a day or so things are fine.
        
       | notfed wrote:
       | Isn't this dangerous? I'm imagining guts getting punched between
       | a magnet and some metal...
        
         | deepspace wrote:
         | I was thinking that as well, but I think the shape of the
         | magnets have something to do with it.
         | 
         | For human children, swallowing a single magnet is a nuisance,
         | but swallowing more than one is a medical emergency, for
         | exactly that reason.
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | More than one with some (unknown to me) period between. If
           | swallowed one after the other, I presume they would just
           | stick together without much issue.
        
       | el_snark wrote:
       | This is incidentally why cows can't travel on planes. They always
       | get stopped at the body scanner.
        
         | onemoresoop wrote:
         | They don't fit through or they can't raise their hands up?
        
       | waterhouse wrote:
       | An implication is that, of the metallic debris a cow might
       | ingest, a large fraction of it is magnetizable--otherwise there'd
       | be little point. I wonder, does this feed back into the decisions
       | that are made? Do people deliberately choose magnetizable metals
       | for things that might get broken up in a cow's environment?
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | This is an unnecessarily verbose way of saying "cows eat random
       | things including metal bits that can kill them, so we have them
       | eat a magnet to catch them".
       | 
       | Then again, it's content marketing. It's written for search
       | engines, not humans.
        
         | screamingninja wrote:
         | > unnecessarily verbose way
         | 
         | What are you referring to? I just see two words in the title:
         | "Cow Magnets"
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | I refer to the article's contents
        
       | Zebfross wrote:
       | I had a pair of these growing up, and they're super fun to play
       | with. They have great interactions and make interesting sounds.
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | Dad sold veterinary supplies. We had lots of these to play with.
       | They were the strongest magnets around before modern rare earth
       | magnets came along. Sometimes we used them to clamp steel pieces
       | together prior to welding etc. Lots of uses.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | I live by The Thames; for the last few days, we've had magnet
       | fishers on the bank. I gather this crew have fished up a cannon
       | and a sawn-off shotgun, as well as stuff like jewelry.
       | 
       | I'm not going to link to them (Facebook <spit>), but you can
       | search for "Northants magnet fishers".
       | 
       | They all seem to use the same magnets, which look as if they're
       | about 3" diameter, 2" tall cylinders. It seems to require a fair
       | bit of muscle to separate the dredged iron from the magnet. I
       | don't know where they get these magnets.
        
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