[HN Gopher] Fairbuds: In-ear with replaceable batteries
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Fairbuds: In-ear with replaceable batteries
        
       Author : pfooti
       Score  : 252 points
       Date   : 2024-04-09 17:09 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shop.fairphone.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shop.fairphone.com)
        
       | skadamat wrote:
       | These look pretty compelling. I'm looking forward to the iFixIt
       | teardown
        
       | UniverseHacker wrote:
       | Very cool! I am curious if it takes standard batteries, or
       | something custom from them that will be unobtainable in a few
       | years?
       | 
       | I'm also curious if the noise cancelling is any good... I'm tired
       | of being locked into overpriced low quality Bose products, but
       | historically they have been the only ones with truly good noise
       | cancelling. As I have ADHD I need really good noise cancelling to
       | do my job in an open work environment.
       | 
       | Lastly, I'm wondering what the deal is with the earbud tips, as
       | I've found I often need a custom or weird sized one to get things
       | to stay in my ear. The Bose ones generally work for me, as they
       | come with a large array of sizes, but the photos make this look
       | like just a single size.
       | 
       | I'll keep an eye on these- if I can answer these 3
       | questions/issues I'll buy a set.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | I don't think they're standard batteries given the specialized
         | form factor (size/shape/weight). On the spare parts page for
         | the Fairbuds (https://shop.fairphone.com/shop/category/spare-
         | parts-4?categ...) there is nothing mentioned about the battery
         | specifications, so I assume it's proprietary. That said, the
         | parts are cheap - less than 10 euros for replacement earbud
         | batteries is very reasonable.
         | 
         | For earbud tips - you can get aftermarket replacements of many
         | sizes and shapes for cheap. Look on Amazon or Alibaba, but some
         | brands are more well known like Spinfit.
         | 
         | As for active noise cancellation - my experience has been that
         | anything outside of Bose or Sony is only OK at best. I doubt
         | these are any better than the average set out there. But with
         | the right aftermarket tips you can improve the quality of
         | isolation on cheaper earbuds significantly.
         | 
         | EDIT: others have pointed out that the batteries are indeed
         | standardized.
        
           | Ringz wrote:
           | They have standard batteries:
           | https://www.eemb.com/product-241
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | I can't find this on the product webpage (why?!), but
         | reportedly the battery _is_ standard, it 's a LIR1054.
         | 
         | https://www.heise.de/news/Fairphone-Fairbuds-In-Ears-mit-Wec...
        
         | pge wrote:
         | The battery looks like a standard hearing aid battery
        
           | ssl-3 wrote:
           | Fantastic! The best part about hearing aid battery standards
           | is that there are so many of them to pick from!
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | Do consumer standard lithium-ion batteries exist yet? (Aside
         | from 18650s, which might barely count).
         | 
         | It's 2024; how come companies like Sony, Panasonic, Energizer
         | and Duracell haven't jumped on offering one or two standard
         | replaceable lithium-ion cells, with integrated circuit
         | protection and slim enough for modern consumer electronics,
         | that people can buy off-the-shelf in drug stores? Many devices
         | are still running on alkaline batteries these days, like smoke
         | detectors and kitchen scales.
         | 
         | It didn't take that long in the old days for standards like AA
         | and AAA batteries to hit the market, and they didn't worry too
         | much about applying them to new chemistries with differing
         | voltages. And with efficient DC-DC converters that are cheap
         | enough to introduce into consumer electronics, battery voltage
         | hardly even matters that much nowadays.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Do these count:
           | 
           | https://energizer.com/batteries/energizer-ultimate-
           | lithium-b...
        
             | colinng wrote:
             | They're really light and last a long time, but are not
             | rechargeable.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | I think you are moving the goalposts. The batteries I
               | linked to are consumer standard lithium chemistry
               | batteries that people can buy off-the-shelf in drug
               | stores and be used in smoke detectors and kitchen scales.
        
               | UniverseHacker wrote:
               | No we're talking about rechargeable batteries here...
               | disposable lithium are too expensive and wasteful for
               | frequently used high drain devices. I love them for
               | emergency equipment like spot trackers and emergency
               | strobe lights
        
               | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
               | When I said lithium-ion I was indeed referring to
               | secondary (rechargeable) batteries. Apologies for not
               | making that clear.
               | 
               | AA and AAA Nickel-metal-hydride rechargeable batteries
               | exist, but it doesn't seem anyone ever made a li-ion
               | equivalent.
        
           | UniverseHacker wrote:
           | Kind-of, you can typically get rechargeable lithium versions
           | of the same form factor as alkaline batteries, as well as the
           | fact that many "proprietary" batteries like digital camera
           | batteries are actually pretty common and standard, or widely
           | available. For example, if you design a device to take
           | standard gopro batteries, that will be easy to get for a long
           | time. Standard button cells, which have been lithium for a
           | long time, can be obtained in rechargeable versions.
           | 
           | However a major issue is that the charging
           | circuitry/method/design is not standard for rechargeable
           | versions of non-rechargeable standard batteries. So you often
           | need to remove it and charge it with a charging system from
           | the battery manufacturer instead of charging in place.
        
           | morsch wrote:
           | I've had a few gadgets -- for example, an Instax bluetooth
           | instant photo printer -- that ran off of batteries originally
           | introduced by Nokia for phones around 2000 (BLC-1/2),
           | including charging them. I doubt many people buy them for
           | their Nokia 3310 these days, but they're readily available
           | from many manufacturers[1]. I think some old Canon DSLR
           | battery form factor is used similarily.
           | 
           | [1] Many manufacturers, possibly a single factory somewhere
           | in China.
        
           | j16sdiz wrote:
           | The wikipedia page list a full pages of li ion battery sizes
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes
        
           | mattkevan wrote:
           | I bought a set of AA lithium from Amazon not too long ago,
           | hoping to solve the problem of disposable batteries. They had
           | a micro USB port in the side for recharging and everything.
           | 
           | Sadly, they were crap and stopped working after one charge.
           | More e-waste.
        
       | maxglute wrote:
       | These look great, hope ANC performance competitive. Lack voice
       | pass through though.
       | 
       | Should have fairphone branded on the the case insetad of fairbud.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Repairability is good and will reduce waste, but I am not sure
       | this is going to actually attract customers unless they're
       | already fans of Fairphone for other reasons (like ethics or
       | sustainability or privacy or independence from big companies or
       | whatever). To attract new customers, they need something else to
       | stand out from a very crowded space, where there are many good
       | choices as far as sound quality, mic quality, noise cancellation,
       | etc. I am skeptical that these will be any better than the
       | competition on those facets. And keep in mind, 150 Euros means it
       | is competing with everything from budget sub-50 products on
       | Amazon to AirPods.
        
         | j16sdiz wrote:
         | Do they need new customers?
         | 
         | All they need are existing customers buy in these new product
         | lines
        
         | whazor wrote:
         | Assuming there is a maintainability premium, EUR150 seems too
         | little for great earbuds.
         | 
         | I got attached to my AirPods Max. They allow me to have
         | meetings next to people who are also in meetings. Even if they
         | are in the same meeting.
        
           | e12e wrote:
           | > have meetings next to people who are also in meetings. Even
           | if they are in the same meeting.
           | 
           | I know what you mean, but still had to laugh :)
        
           | dingnuts wrote:
           | I'm interested to hear how the AirPods solved the problem of
           | everyone around me hearing me speak to my computer,
           | definitely causing them annoyance and possibly violating my
           | NDA, depending on where I am for that meeting.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | > I am not sure this is going to actually attract customers
         | 
         | What's worse is that if/when the market demands replaceable
         | batteries, it's an easy feature for everyone else to clone.
        
           | blackbeans wrote:
           | Sure, it's possible to make the battery removable, but why
           | would they do that? It was the manufacturers (e.g. Apple) who
           | decided to make the battery non-removeable in the first
           | place, as it allows for a more compact design and more
           | revenue.
           | 
           | Also the batteries would have to be ordered as a spare part
           | years after the product launched, and most cheap
           | manufacturers are horrible with sustained support.
        
       | nolongerthere wrote:
       | I'm most curious about if the connection issues have been
       | resolved for non-AirPod earbuds, I have AirPod pros that I'm
       | looking to replace, but last time I looked at all the
       | alternatives it was really annoying to switch between devices.
        
         | talldayo wrote:
         | Multipoint Bluetooth (which these feature) covers my use case
         | 95% of the time. The gist is that certain headphones can
         | connect to 2 Bluetooth endpoints and switch between whichever
         | one is actively sending audio. If you step away from your
         | desktop and start playing something on your phone, it will grab
         | the phone's input and take over from there.
         | 
         | It's not a carbon-copy of Apple's approach, but I've had issues
         | with iCloud switching too so I'm rather glad it's not. Plus,
         | the Multipoint approach works with all my weird stuff like my
         | Switch and smart TV.
        
           | lloeki wrote:
           | > The gist is that certain headphones can connect to 2
           | Bluetooth endpoints and switch between whichever one is
           | actively sending audio
           | 
           | I hate multipoint bluetooth. It only seems to work in the
           | most basic of scenarios and nobody appears to have been
           | testing the damn thing out of that in real life. Yes Bose I'm
           | looking at you.
           | 
           | Good <deity> that is stupid hellhole of having audio stolen
           | from you because some audio happened to play on the second
           | device because you (or an unattended browser autoupdate)
           | (re)opened some youtube tab, or constant nags about "foo
           | disconnected / foo connected" when at range limit, or you
           | took a call on your computer and moved and got out of range
           | and sure enough it swaps to your phone which decides "oh sure
           | you probably want to enjoy some loud music" and helpfully
           | proceeds to blow your eardrums.
           | 
           | <Deity> forbids you have more than two regularly used devices
           | in which case it's completely useless anyway.
           | 
           | Meanwhile my Beyerdynamic is not multipoint, it merely
           | remembers what it has been paired to (I'm up to six devices
           | now) and just connects to the last one on power up. If I want
           | to use them from another previous one I just pop in bluetooth
           | quick settings and choose "connect to FreeBYRD" which
           | disconnects them from the other one, y'know, like we used to
           | do when there were actual wires plugged into actual physical
           | plugs, which BT is a glorified copperless version of anyway.
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | I'm not steelmanning Bluetooth as a whole, or wireless
             | audio as a sterling concept. Multipoint Bluetooth is better
             | than iCloud switching, in my experience. In the rare
             | situation where I'm juggling three devices at once, I turn
             | off Bluetooth on whatever I'm not using and keep on
             | rolling.
             | 
             | I can believe that some manufacturers dropped the ball on
             | it, but none of my headsets are really that finnecky.
             | Jabra, Sony, JBL, Samsung and even Skullcandy all seem to
             | have good implementations from what I've seen.
             | Fundamentally, any protocol-level solution is better than
             | playing Monkey in the Middle with Bluetooth MAC addresses
             | online.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | > In the rare situation where I'm juggling three devices
               | at once
               | 
               | If you're not running into that situation very often,
               | then you're not going to consider problems with it a
               | problem. Personally, between my personal phone and
               | laptop, and my work phone and laptop, turning off
               | Bluetooth isn't a good enough solution, especially
               | because I also have a Bluetooth keyboard, and mouse in
               | the mix as well.
        
               | talldayo wrote:
               | When I do carry two computers, they're not going to both
               | feature iCloud syncing. Multipoint is still the more
               | seamless option for me, but I guess you could pass the
               | point of utility if you own 3+ iDevices with nothing else
               | to sync.
        
               | lloeki wrote:
               | Oh I'm not using any iCloud switching either, just
               | straight up Bluetooth connection requests from previously
               | paired devices.
               | 
               | It just turns out that two clicks/taps when I want my
               | headphones _from the device I 'm currently using_ is a
               | mindboggingly more simple, consistent, and reliable
               | solution than whatever a headphone's vendor firmware
               | tries to intuit about what I actually want to do from the
               | fact that it's receiving audio.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Speaking of bluetooth, does anyone know of a USB bluetooth
         | dongle that is Linux compatible and has a range of like 30
         | meters? Asking because my headphones always lose connection
         | when I walk to the kitchen.
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | USB-C is a plus. No wireless charging is a bummer.
       | 
       | Something built to last for ten years would be intriguing. I'm
       | still using my Samsung Galaxy Buds+ from 2020 as my daily driver.
       | I prefer the capsule case to the box design of later models, and
       | all of the internals are still "good enough" that I haven't
       | really felt the need to upgrade. Even the lack of ANC hasn't been
       | a dealbreaker--the passive noise cancellation just from having a
       | solid seal around the ear has been enough to happily use on a
       | plane.
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | > Old batteries should never be the end of your earbuds. That's
       | why we designed the Fairbuds with replaceable batteries - in the
       | charging case and both buds!
       | 
       | This is awesome. At first I thought they cheated and only made
       | the case battery replaceable.
        
         | nicoty wrote:
         | Would've been nicer if they made the batteries hot-swappable
         | like on these: https://pqearbuds.com/products/longest-lasting-
         | interchangeab...
        
       | koinedad wrote:
       | I really like the idea of this since I've been through a few
       | pairs of AirPods. I'm not digging the shape as much but love the
       | idea.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | I haven't replaced a pair of AirPods other than wanting
         | upgraded models.
        
       | VyseofArcadia wrote:
       | And of course they don't ship to the US. I'll be picking these up
       | as soon as I can find a way to buy them. Maybe Murena will sell
       | them soon, like they do the Fairphone.
        
       | segasaturn wrote:
       | Notably Fairphone removed the headphone jack on their phones so
       | that they could sell us these wireless earbuds. I appreciate that
       | the battery is replacable on these buds, but not worth it imo!
       | After all, wired earbuds don't even need batteries. :(
        
         | nebalee wrote:
         | Wired USB-C earbuds exist.
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | Batteries are just one of the many issues when headphone
           | jacks are removed. (Also you can totally use wireless/usb-c
           | headphones with phones with jacks, but that's something
           | hopefully people realize.)
        
           | ssl-3 wrote:
           | They do exist, but USC-C headphones include _an entire USB
           | sound card_ instead of -- you know -- just some headphone
           | electromagnetic bits.
        
             | aeyes wrote:
             | So use any of the ~10$ USB-C to headphone dongles with your
             | favorite headphones. For example the Apple or Google
             | adapters work fine.
        
               | 8zah6q7 wrote:
               | The Apple USB-C to 3.5 mm TRS adapter in particular is a
               | great value. https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-
               | adapter-review/
        
             | Kirby64 wrote:
             | "an entire USB sound card" is literally a single piece of
             | silicon (plus some passive components like resistors and
             | capacitors) that can cost less than 10 cents to
             | manufacture. Not exactly a huge burden here.
             | 
             | Additionally, unlike a 3.5mm jack, you don't need to deal
             | with a 'sound card' that can handle almost anything you can
             | plug into it. You get to tailor your headphone/headset
             | drivers specifically to your attached devices. The general-
             | purpose device that can handle anything you can throw at it
             | costs much more.
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | You know the wireless earbuds have the exact same circuitry
             | built in, right?
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | I was wondering/hoping someone would raise this point.
         | 
         | Wireless earbuds being repairable is great, but you don't need
         | to remove the jack for that.
        
         | petsfed wrote:
         | Counterpoint:
         | 
         | The material and monetary cost of the number of wired
         | headphones I've destroyed in the 6 years before I got wireless
         | head phones (because there was no realistic way to stow the
         | cabling for the activity I was involved in) probably approaches
         | the cost of the 2 pairs of wireless headphones I've owned in
         | the last 6 years.
         | 
         | I don't think they cut the headphone jack _just_ to sell these
         | headphones. While it is true that you can make a headphone jack
         | as water-resistant as the rest of the phone, every hole you put
         | in the phone adds to the design and assembly cost to maintain
         | the same IP rating. And each hole _significantly_ adds to the
         | complexity of repairing that phone in such a way that it
         | maintains that IP rating after the repair.
        
           | gibolt wrote:
           | Same. I've been using a tiny pair of wireless headphones for
           | ~5 years. If anything were to break, it is fairly easy to
           | order replacements on Ebay which causes nothing new to be
           | manufactured.
           | 
           | A set of small wireless headphones uses far less material
           | than a large pair of wired headphones. Not saying it is a
           | direct replacement, just that everything has some
           | environmental impact, and fretting over one tiny device
           | misses the forest for the trees.
        
           | hyperpl wrote:
           | Counterpoint:
           | 
           | I've lost either the earbuds or case of so many wireless
           | earbuds during the past 4 years that I could have afforded
           | 2-3 much higher quality wired earbuds.
        
             | markhahn wrote:
             | do you also lose phones themselves? keys? pens?
             | 
             | I probably outed myself as an old with the latter question
             | ;)
        
               | jszymborski wrote:
               | It's way easier for me to lose something the size and
               | weight of a nickel than a phone. Not to mention ear buds
               | do on occasion come lose and fall. With wired headphones,
               | they dangle, but wireless buds fall into all manner of
               | nooks, drains, and bottomless caverns.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | If my phone hung off my ears and weighed so little that I
               | could miss it, then I would be very nervous about it.
        
               | vundercind wrote:
               | Phones: if not for Find My, oh god yes.
               | 
               | Keys: All the time. Now I have a tile on them.
               | 
               | Pens: lol yes, it's why I've never tried to get into
               | very-nice pens.
               | 
               | I'd have lost my AirPods several times without find my.
               | I'm certain I'd not have managed to keep both buds more
               | than a couple months if I weren't very diligent about
               | putting them back in the case when I'm not actively using
               | them.
        
           | ponorin wrote:
           | people seem to forget that having a headphone jack doesn't
           | preclude one from using wireless earbuds. if you grind thru
           | many wired earphones for some reason, great, you do you. for
           | others, they will hang onto it much longer and it will be
           | more sustainable _and_ cheaper.
        
             | petsfed wrote:
             | And I'm not speaking to the fact that you can use wireless
             | headphones with a phone with a 3.5mm jack.
             | 
             | I'm saying that for the objectives Fair set out for
             | themselves, dropping the headphone jack is low-hanging
             | fruit. Its one more piece that fails, it fails as a
             | consequence of normal use (there's no way to baby the
             | headphone jack, or the power jack, in such a way that it
             | doesn't eventually fail from repeated usage. Indeed,
             | they're explicitly rated for number of cycles (typically
             | around 5000 for a headphone jack, which is consistent with
             | daily usage for 3 years, well below their 5 year warranty.
             | By comparison, I'm seeing 20k cycles for a cheap usb-c
             | port, which is a lot more defensible for a 5 year
             | warranty)), and it makes maintaining their IP rating after
             | a repair much harder (doubly so, given that they want users
             | to be able to repair their phones).
             | 
             | All for a feature that, given the price point, won't even
             | be used by the majority of users.
        
           | hughesjj wrote:
           | Wait, can you not just replace the wire?
           | 
           | Don't get me wrong the replacement cables can often run like
           | $50 but still, it's not exactly breaking the headphone
           | 
           | I love my wxm4s but I'm on my third pair due to battery life.
           | Wish they had user replaceable batteries... Heck at least for
           | the case
        
         | RockRobotRock wrote:
         | You could always buy a dongle which doesn't seem like the end
         | of the world to me
        
           | segasaturn wrote:
           | Even Apple has given up on the "just use a USB-C dongle"
           | approach to peripherals.
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | by given up, you mean actively sale.
             | 
             | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MU7E2AM/A/usb-c-
             | to-35-mm-...
        
           | MildlySerious wrote:
           | Plugging into a USB-C port in the center of the bottom side
           | feels a lot less sturdy than plugging into the audio port
           | closer to the side. Decreased the lifetime of the wires by a
           | lot as well, it felt like. I've tried for a while before
           | finally giving up and getting bluetooth earbuds.
        
         | mafuyu wrote:
         | The industry seems to have settled on USB-C dongles as the
         | solution for wired headphones. They're a little clunkier, but
         | they do work pretty well, and you get options for the DAC.
         | 
         | Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones,
         | and waterproofing them is very annoying as well, requiring a
         | ton of adhesives. I had to take the back glass off my old
         | Xperia Z2C three times over its life to replace the headphone
         | jack, and the waterproofing was totally shot after doing so. At
         | the end of the day, I honestly don't mind the trade off,
         | although I can see how it can be annoying for others.
        
           | jszymborski wrote:
           | > Headphone jacks were a major wear item on older smartphones
           | 
           | I've had the area around jacks get scratched over the years,
           | but I've never had them fail due to mechanical wear. Is this
           | common for others?
           | 
           | I've certainly had the micro and mini USB ports fail on me
           | over the years though.
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | Yeah, never had headphone jack issues, it was always the
             | USB port, including with type C now. Sounds like a
             | ridiculous assertion to me, but maybe I use my phone
             | differently.
        
             | mafuyu wrote:
             | I think it varies a lot from product to product, and much
             | of it is the mechanical design of the phone housing, and
             | the durability of the jack they selected. Plus it's really
             | easy to accidentally put a lot of mechanical strain on it
             | when the cable gets tugged.
             | 
             | MiniUSB was a busted connector design from the start, which
             | is why the industry moved to Micro USB so quickly. Many
             | MiniUSB receptacles in the wild were failing after
             | thousands or even hundreds(!) of insertions.
        
             | vundercind wrote:
             | It was a constant problem in my PC & Android days. They'd
             | stop making good contact before long. Sometimes, they never
             | would.
             | 
             | Not a problem (like, never) once I switched to Apple... but
             | then they removed the jacks.
        
           | dathery wrote:
           | My experience has been that it's really easy to damage your
           | USB-C port like this if you keep your phone in your pocket
           | while walking/running. I always end up with the port loose
           | and making poor connections.
           | 
           | I ended up buying a small battery-powered Bluetooth-to-3.5mm
           | receiver that I keep in my left pocket, and then send
           | Bluetooth audio to it from my phone in my right pocket. It's
           | a pretty ridiculous setup.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | I have been running (sports) 16km each week with my Fairphone
           | 3 in my pocket and wires headphones, for roughly 3 years now
           | on top of that less harsh daily use during commutes -- still
           | no issues.
           | 
           | As an electronics guy the jack is rarely the issue, a TRS
           | jack has spring contacts inside, so wear should not be an
           | issue unless they use the shittiest of connectors or you
           | actually damage the bonding between connector and PCB. It is
           | 100 times more likely for the plug to fail and a 1000 times
           | more likely for the cable to fail.
        
             | cameronh90 wrote:
             | The bonding between connector and PCB seems to fail a LOT
             | in certain devices. I've been seeing a near 100% failure
             | rate on the USB C connectors over a few years in some
             | Lenovo X1 Carbon laptop generations.
             | 
             | I've not seen the same failure in TRS connectors in a long
             | time now, but I think that's mainly because few people
             | actually use them.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Hmm, the headphone jack on my iphone 6s is working fine after
           | years of almost daily use.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | Yeah, if only there were some kind of connector which would
         | deliver the current to the earbuds. Then you wouldn't need
         | batteries at all. Perhaps some manner of universal connector
         | which would work with the earbuds everyone already has. But
         | that seems too far fetched, we just don't have the technology
         | for such a thing.
        
           | craftkiller wrote:
           | > some manner of universal connector
           | 
           | Sounds like you want usb type c! In addition to Audio Adapter
           | Accessory Mode which allows it to drive a couple pins with
           | analog audio exactly like the 3.5mm jacks (and therefore
           | enabling completely passive adapters to support devices with
           | 3.5mm jacks), usb type c also supports charging, high speed
           | data, and video. That's a lot more universal than some silly
           | jack that can only support audio.
           | 
           | Unfortunately it looks like at least the fairphone 4 didn't
           | support Audio Adapter Accessory Mode and I haven't found
           | information on whether the fairphone 5 supports it.
           | Definitely a mark against the company if they don't support
           | Audio Adapter Accessory Mode.
        
       | k8svet wrote:
       | How does "dual point" compare to "multipoint" advertised in some
       | newer (even some decent/cheap) ones?
       | 
       | I'm looking to "upgrade" but only because the batteries in my
       | current pair are shot. It feels so bad to have things like this
       | just go into a landfill when they're perfectly fine other than
       | the battery.
       | 
       | edit: oh, these are also 5x as expensive as the $30 earbuds I
       | bought 2 years ago that have a really decent sound profile.
       | Oooof. Sustainable, at a 5x premium? :/
        
         | nulld3v wrote:
         | The "dual point" they advertise is identical to "multipoint"
         | offered by other earbuds on the market. Pretty much all earbuds
         | that advertise "multipoint" only support max 2 devices.
        
         | The_Colonel wrote:
         | There are many other aspects of good headphones than just sound
         | quality.
         | 
         | Like your cheap ones certainly don't have ANC which can be a
         | dealbreaker. Other important things are responsive touch
         | control, good set of microphones, app with equalizer, ear
         | detection, wearing comfort...
         | 
         | For my main use case (podcasts), the sound quality is actually
         | the least important aspect of headphones.
        
           | k8svet wrote:
           | Well the pair I have have quite decent ANC. Frankly, earbuds
           | are in the consumer device category where a loooot of people
           | fall for brands and hype.
           | 
           | The only criticism that holds is that these have touchy touch
           | controls, but for a cost savings of $120, and that being the
           | only compromise for me, it's a no-brainer.
           | 
           | This blog is invaluable. I bought a number of the sub-$50
           | pairs a couple years back, and compared them against my
           | favorite wired IEMs. They're not the same of course, but damn
           | good for the money. https://www.scarbir.com/guide/best-
           | sounding-wireless-earphon... I wear them 6+ hours a day, or
           | did when the battery was in better health.
           | 
           | If you skim the reviews, you'll see that there are a number
           | of them that have good frequency response, comfort, multi-
           | point. ANC is more or less table stakes, from what I can
           | tell. Etc. Things change fast, you really don't have to spend
           | $100 to get decent earbuds. Hell, even the Galaxy Buds FE,
           | which are very well reviewed can be had for $70USD.
           | 
           | EDIT: Actually, the very latest blog post is pretty
           | descriptive of this: https://www.scarbir.com/tws/cheapest-
           | airpods-like-earbuds-al... (One of the top on the list the
           | successor to the pair I've been rocking since 2022.)
        
       | ivandenysov wrote:
       | I'm comparing these to my galaxy buds plus, which I bough because
       | of theoretically replaceable batteries:
       | 
       | - pro: 10 EUR for a pair of replacement batteries for the earbuds
       | vs ~20 EUR for a pair of VARTA batteries with shipping from
       | Germany
       | 
       | - pro: 13 EUR for a new battery for the case. I need to go to
       | aliexpress to find a replacement battery for the galaxy buds plus
       | case
       | 
       | - pro: replacement process seems to be way easier because it was
       | designed to be replaceable unlike galaxy buds plus
       | 
       | - pro: lighter than the buds: ~5g vs 6.3g
       | 
       | - pro: ANC
       | 
       | - con: more expensive. I paid half the price for the buds. But
       | that was in 2020 money.
       | 
       | - con: they are bigger: 28.7 x 24.6 x 21mm vs 17.5 x 22.5 x
       | 19.2mm
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | Considering every new generation of Samsung buds (along the
         | same product line) sounds magnitudes better than the last, I
         | don't see why I would ever need to replace a battery. The
         | batteries in my buds plus lasted me until buds pro were
         | released, and my buds pro batteries lasted me until buds2 pro
         | were released, so I have no reason to doubt my buds2 pro
         | batteries will degrade before buds3 pros come out. And of
         | course they will be the best sounding buds on the market so
         | I'll buy them, because why even own buds if not for the sound
         | quality.
        
           | morsch wrote:
           | If every release has improved SQ by that much, the first
           | iteration must have sounded just awful.
        
           | The_Colonel wrote:
           | No offense, but you sound like the perfect consumerist. I'm
           | pretty sure you're going to hit diminishing returns pretty
           | soon, esp. if your claim that every new gen is "magnitudes
           | better" than the old one is true.
           | 
           | Personally, I was completely happy with the sound quality of
           | my first TWS (FreeBuds 3). The only reason I felt I needed
           | new ones was a failing battery in one of the buds.
        
           | abdullahkhalids wrote:
           | The frequency response graph of the buds2 pro is only a
           | little bit flatter than the buds pro [1]. In fact, it seems
           | worse in the treble region. How else are you comparing?
           | 
           | [1] https://www.rtings.com/headphones/graph/23318/frequency-
           | resp...
        
       | thereddaikon wrote:
       | I can't wear earbuds that stick inside your ear canal. They just
       | don't fit me and are extremely uncomfortable. I have two pair of
       | galaxy buds live for this reason. I've even swapped the batteries
       | on both pair to keep them going as well. I'm not switching until
       | someone comes out with a better alternative.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | Same. In my case I'm very happy that airpods are a thing, I'm
         | not considering airpods pro for that reason.
        
           | ProfessorLayton wrote:
           | I'm the opposite, I can't use regular airpods since they
           | won't stay in my ears, but airpods pro do so just fine. I
           | think it's just one of those cases where multiple types will
           | be necessary due to physical differences in ears.
        
             | thereddaikon wrote:
             | Definitely true. People are shaped different so there's
             | room for more than one type on the market. I just wish
             | there was more options for me other than the galaxy live
             | and the original airpods.
        
             | ryukafalz wrote:
             | Yep, I'm the same way. I wish I could since they seem more
             | comfortable in some ways, but they just fall right out!
        
         | Izkata wrote:
         | Within the past year, on Amazon there was a rather sudden
         | influx of earbuds in a variety of designs that wrap around or
         | clip onto the ear instead of going in it. The key term to
         | search for is "open-ear" earbuds.
        
         | andrepew wrote:
         | I'm the same and fixed the issue by getting some custom eartips
         | made. They aren't cheap but have made my AirPods Pro usable.
         | 
         | On-ear headphones hurt my earlobes and over-ear headphones make
         | my head get hot so I can't seem to find happiness anywhere. The
         | custom eartips I think have gotten me the closest though!
        
           | jmole wrote:
           | where did you get custom tips for airpods pro? I feel the
           | same way about the stock tips - great sound quality, but I
           | couldn't wear them for more than 5 minutes.
        
             | andrepew wrote:
             | This is who I used. Went to a local audiologist for the ear
             | impression and mailed them over.
             | 
             | https://eartune.com/products/eartune-fidelity-a-pro
             | 
             | Edit: Note that these DO NOT fit inside the Airpods case,
             | you'll need to remove them each time.
        
           | The_Colonel wrote:
           | Have you tried the vanilla AirPods? I have the Huawei
           | equivalent, and they are very comfortable to the point it's
           | easy to forget I wear them. Recently, new designs (like
           | Huawei Clip) started to appear which are apparently even more
           | comfortable.
        
             | andrepew wrote:
             | I've tried the vanilla Earpods which are pretty much the
             | wired version of that. Those ones at least stay in my ear,
             | but my ear starts to hurt after 30 mins or so.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | These are new https://www.bose.com/p/earbuds/bose-ultra-open-
         | earbuds/ULT-H...
        
       | ponorin wrote:
       | So they finally seemed to have come up with their original design
       | after 3 years of selling non-repairable TWS earbuds, great. I
       | genuinely appreciate that they are trying to give users more
       | sustainable options. Perhaps they can walk back the decision to
       | remove the headphone jack as well so that people can use wired
       | headphones directly which doesn't use battery in the first place.
        
         | orthecreedence wrote:
         | I don't really consider new devices that don't have headphone
         | jacks. This wireless-everything craze is so obnoxious.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | I don't think we've cracked the design yet for no wire
           | between the device and the earphones. I have the Shure BT2
           | set and I would list my relationship as "I tolerate them". It
           | dangles, and if I wear a coat with a metal zipper it has
           | connection issues when my phone is in my pocket.
           | 
           | I'm not convinced the new separate ones are better. Behind
           | the head may still be the better option, and sliding them
           | down around your neck when you need to be social ticks a lot
           | of checkboxes for me as well.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | You may not be in the market for wireless headphones then!
        
           | doug_durham wrote:
           | Craze??? Wireless has been the standard for portable
           | electronics for almost 20 years. It's the norm. I could never
           | go back to wired. Too bulky, unreliable, and fragile.
        
             | Grazester wrote:
             | Unreliable compared to wireless? ... right.
        
               | bmicraft wrote:
               | Nope, I've had plenty of unreliable wired in-ear
               | headphones. When used like the wireless ones of today
               | they lasted a couple of years at most before the cable
               | inevitable breaks (usually near the 3.5mm connector) from
               | always moving
        
               | hollandheese wrote:
               | That's why you get IEMs with replaceable cables.
        
               | cameronh90 wrote:
               | I've had to replace my wired headphone cable 3 times in
               | the last 5 years due to wear, unexpectedly each time. I
               | still use them because my current AirPods don't last a
               | full work day, but I'll probably switch to AirPods Max
               | next refresh.
               | 
               | I suspect my particular penchant for wearing through
               | cables isn't super common, but at least for me
               | personally, I find wireless more reliable for that
               | reason.
        
               | LunaSea wrote:
               | > I've had to replace my wired headphone cable 3 times in
               | the last 5 years due to wear, unexpectedly each time. I
               | still use them because my current AirPods don't last a
               | full work day, but I'll probably switch to AirPods Max
               | next refresh.
               | 
               | How many cables are you able to buy for the price of a
               | pair of air pods with broken batteries?
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | The standard, lol.
             | 
             | Go watch any live broadcast of a band past 20 years. You'll
             | notice they use wired, not wireless. Why would they do
             | that? Because the latency is lower, the sound quality is
             | higher, and the bandwidth is higher.
             | 
             | Don't use wireless unless you absolutely need to. And you
             | probably do not.
             | 
             | That being said, I like wireless for a simple reason. No
             | wire near the head is very practical with regards to
             | movement, and I used to destroy 3.5 mm headset wires
             | multiple times a year when I was at school. But those days
             | are long gone.
             | 
             | How do they solve that in live performances (also in
             | talkshows)? They use mics there, and they use some tape or
             | way to attach the mic to clothes.
        
         | zer00eyz wrote:
         | Please can we get jacks back.
         | 
         | The audio quality on these battery powered blue tooth
         | headphones is fucking awful. IM not a purist by any stretch,
         | but a decent pair of head phones is a whole other world of
         | music vs anything AirPods like.
        
           | Mo3 wrote:
           | Hm. I have Sennheiser and Bose Bluetooth headphones and found
           | AAC and AptX HD codecs on highest quality settings (on
           | Android in dev tools) to be really good and almost
           | indistinguishable from wired connections.
           | 
           | I wouldn't call myself an audiophile, but my hearing is
           | pretty good and I'm sensitive to quality loss
        
             | atoav wrote:
             | Not the parent, but wvwn if quality was decent. I have
             | wired headphones. Good ones. And I just want to use them.
             | Sure there are USB-C DACs you can add to your phone but
             | meh.
        
               | hollandheese wrote:
               | Get a bluetooth DAC like the Qudelix 5k or Fiio BTR
               | series.
        
             | zer00eyz wrote:
             | >> Bose Bluetooth headphones ... AAC
             | 
             | Funny that you picked these, I have had 5 different people
             | tell me to try them, and I own a pair.
             | 
             | I have some pretty broad musical tastes. If I throw on some
             | modern, electronic music, or anything pop, these do a
             | pretty good job.
             | 
             | The moment I dip into jazz, into anything where the range
             | between the quiet parts and the loud parts (read pre 1990)
             | is large they just dont perform any more. No amount of EQ
             | is going to make up for that missing range.
             | 
             | The best example of this that I can give is Caltrains A
             | Love Supreme. On something good there is a looming
             | undercurrent in the track, the humming is alive. The track
             | is lifeless on every bluetooth headphone I have heard. Hell
             | even my Sonos speakers in the kitchen do a better job.
        
               | fathyb wrote:
               | A piece of music so beautiful it created a real religious
               | movement might not be the best track to test bluetooth
               | headphones!
               | 
               | FWIW I find it's still sounds beautiful and full of life
               | on AirPods Pro and Sony XM3 without ANC (goosebumps every
               | single time), but not really comparable to a basic Hi-Fi
               | system, just like Hi-Fi never beats live.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | What do you mean "back"? You can buy a plethora of wired
           | headphones.
        
             | wisemang wrote:
             | Not much use of there isn't a plethora of devices with
             | jacks to plug them into (which is what GP asked for)
        
             | LeonenTheDK wrote:
             | Back on phones.
        
             | maven29 wrote:
             | If only they weren't also so insistent on also obsoleting
             | analog outputs and thus 75 years worth of headphones.
             | 
             | Even worse, considering that they have to include DACs for
             | speakers anyway, they still refuse to route analog audio
             | out to the type-c connector - just to ensure that cheap
             | passive adapters will not impede their shameless grift.
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | That "cheap passive adapter" has a ridiculous amount of
               | complexity (both in the dongle, and in the chip you would
               | have to connect it to to make it functional) that you're
               | overlooking. You can't just 'route the DAC in the speaker
               | to the Type-C connector'. That's not how these systems
               | are built at all, and certainly not something that would
               | be functional even if you could just route the speaker
               | DAC to a 3.5mm connector or Type-C connector.
        
               | maven29 wrote:
               | The USB standard has provision for analog output through
               | the MUX, and all compliant MUX/controller chips will have
               | implemented this.
               | 
               | https://www.anandtech.com/show/10719/usbif-publishes-
               | audio-o...
               | 
               | If this is so non-trivial, Chinese OEMs like Huawei have
               | in fact succeeded in analog output. This is despite the
               | fact that their receptacles are on a 50mm long flex PCB,
               | you don't need another 2 signal layers or an extra
               | daughterboard.
               | 
               | The laws of physics are the same everywhere across the
               | world. Just because Apple is incompetent, it does not
               | imply everyone else is.
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | You're talking to someone who works with folks on the
               | USB-IF committee. Analog output through the DP/DN/SBU
               | pins is not standard these days. A mux isn't even
               | necessary in many implementations. Also, this
               | functionality in USB Type-C is straight up deprecated.
               | Just because it's technically possible (and sure, I
               | agree, it is technically possible) doesn't mean it isn't
               | more costly, less efficient, and wasteful vs. just
               | putting the codec directly in the USB-C to 3.5mm dongle.
               | 
               | Here's the rationale than USB-IF gave in the ECN: >> Few
               | hosts support analog audio accessory. Those that might
               | could be confused when connected to a device supporting
               | corrosion mitigation, but no detrimental behavior should
               | be seen. This should be a corner case of a corner case so
               | likely zero to very low ppm of this condition. Note, any
               | compliant host that supports analog audio accessory today
               | is also required to support digital audio accessories, so
               | there should be no impact to users."
        
               | craftkiller wrote:
               | > That "cheap passive adapter" has a ridiculous amount of
               | complexity (both in the dongle,[...]
               | 
               | I believe they are referring to Audio adapter accessory
               | mode. What is so complex about two resistors on the CC1
               | and CC2 pins?
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | Sure, if you use the audio adapter accessory mode, you
               | can just get CC1/CC2 resistors. But then you just push a
               | ton of complexity (even more-so than the standard codec
               | for headsets) into the device. You need additional analog
               | muxes above and beyond the codec, which aren't free.
               | Nobody implements this anymore, cause it's much easier to
               | just shove the codec into the dongle itself. Also, it's
               | deprecated as of the latest USB-C specifications
               | (precisely because nobody uses it now).
        
           | conaclos wrote:
           | Just use/buy an "old" phone with a jack? It is easy to find
           | used phones (2021 or earlier) with headphone jacks. I have a
           | 2017 phone and plan to upgrade to a 2020 phone.
        
             | naikrovek wrote:
             | That makes a lot of sense until you realize those are no
             | longer made and are not updated with security fixes, in
             | many cases.
             | 
             | It makes very little sense to buy a network-connected
             | device which can't be updated. And if you say "put Linux on
             | it" it could be argued that you don't know what tools like
             | phones are for.
        
               | Pannoniae wrote:
               | well, what are they for? and why is saying "put linux on
               | it" misdirected?
        
               | squarefoot wrote:
               | Running all sort of apps that wouldn't exist native on
               | Linux (banking, whatsapp, ...) or whose equivalents
               | although better and safer on Linux aren't compatible with
               | what the mass uses. I finally settled with a phone (Nokia
               | 8110 4G) that does just the phone, the hotspot and the
               | occasional low quality photo, then a Thinkpad for serious
               | stuff, and don't miss at all a smartphone. But I have no
               | use for social media etc. most people mileage will vary.
               | Actually I would be interested in Graphene OS, but it
               | only supports devices that are either too old or too
               | costly for a mere curiosity, therefore I will wait.
        
               | chainingsolid wrote:
               | As someone writing this on a pinephone the primary issue
               | with the statement is the lack of context. You 'put linux
               | on it' and get OSS, and control of your own device. But
               | most of the time lose 90% access to the abilities of
               | ios/android installs... I can sudo pacman -S dub & ldc2 +
               | fav editor of the week. But had to spend hours getting an
               | android emulator working to sign up to use the telegram
               | install that came with most/all of the distros I've
               | tried!
               | 
               | TLDR: you get a pocket laptop instead of a phone, despite
               | owning a "phone"
        
               | conaclos wrote:
               | I only buy phones with great support for LineageOS [0],
               | which is basically the open source version of Android
               | with some adaptations... Even if I bought a 2024 phone, I
               | would install LineageOS to make sure there are no
               | backdoors on my phone.
               | 
               | [0] https://lineageos.org/
        
               | jordigh wrote:
               | Aren't the backdoors gonna be in the baseband firmware
               | that no phone allows you to modify?
               | 
               | I always felt that we basically "lost" with open source:
               | Intel did the Management Engine and phones stuck
               | everything in the baseband.
               | 
               | There's no real possibility of having fully software-
               | hackable hardware. Someone else ultimately has control of
               | all hardware, if they want to exercise that control.
        
             | carlob wrote:
             | Pretty much all Motorola phones still have a headphone jack
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | You can get it back with a USB-C to 3.5 mm adapter.
        
             | kornhole wrote:
             | They only cost a couple bucks and can stay connected to
             | headphones. One of mine has a microphone block that I
             | generally keep plugged into my untrusted work laptop to
             | ensure it isn't listening to me.
        
               | jraph wrote:
               | How does plugging something help with blocking a
               | microphone? The laptop still has its internal one.
               | 
               | One Linux you can still select the internal microphone
               | even with something plugged in the jack port and the mic
               | is still usable.
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | but you can't plug your phone to charge at the same time,
             | can you?
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | Yeah, you can, as you have connectors which allow USB-C
               | pass-through on top of the 3.5 mm.
               | 
               | Another alternative is 3.5 mm to Bluetooth adapter from
               | your headset. Though those are usually (?) male, and
               | hence only work on a female 3.5 mm.
               | 
               | You can buy these for a couple of EUR/USD on Amazon from
               | any Chinese brand. Fairphone themselves also sell a 3.5
               | mm to USB-C adapter. But this does not have USB-C pass-
               | through.
               | 
               | These all do have a disadvantage: physical bloat /
               | potentially making device less comfortable.
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | Good TWS headphones are better than the vast majority of
           | wired headphones.
           | 
           | For example, Sony's headphones have lossless Bluetooth, and
           | so do Samsung's, and the quality of the headphones themselves
           | is quite good, even by audiophile standards, for in-ears.
           | 
           | You can also get bluetooth adapters for traditional IEMs,
           | Fiio and KZ sell good ones.
           | 
           | At the end of the day, there really is no technical reason
           | why bluetooth headphones have to sound any worse than wired
           | headphones.
        
             | hollandheese wrote:
             | > Good TWS headphones are better than the vast majority of
             | wired headphones.
             | 
             | Maybe, but there are no high end TWS headphones. None of
             | them stand up to even $200 wired IEMs.
             | 
             | >You can also get bluetooth adapters for traditional IEMs,
             | Fiio and KZ sell good ones.
             | 
             | I wouldn't call any of the TWS adapters for IEMs good. I
             | have the Fiio ones, they are a pain in the ass to use and
             | connect. And everyone I've heard from says the KZ are worse
             | than the Fiio ones, so I'm not going to try them.
             | 
             | Get a Bluetooth DAC instead like the Qudelix 5k or Fiio BTR
             | series.
             | 
             | > At the end of the day, there really is no technical
             | reason why bluetooth headphones have to sound any worse
             | than wired headphones.
             | 
             | True, true. I just wish they'd make good bluetooth
             | headphones. I'm sick and tired of dealing with adapters,
             | even the bluetooth ones.
        
           | latentcall wrote:
           | I have a decent hi-fi system in my home and listen to a lot
           | of vinyl and tapes, and my pair of Technics EAH-AZ80's sound
           | pretty damn good using music streamed from Roon ARC (FLAC,
           | some 320 MP3's).
           | 
           | I have heard a lot in the past few years of people praising
           | cheap IEM's (I still don't get the difference between IEM's
           | and a pair of wired headphones) and am curious to refresh my
           | iPod Classic to use with some but I wouldn't know where to
           | begin.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | I used to feel this way too. I don't care so much about sound
           | quality, as I'm mostly listening to podcasts and audiobooks,
           | but I didn't want to be reliant on teeny little batteries
           | that have to be recharged every couple of hours.
           | 
           | As it turns out, the unexpected benefit of not having wires
           | is that the cord doesn't get caught on everything all the
           | time, and that's good enough to overcome the poor battery
           | life for me.
        
             | brewtide wrote:
             | As someone who wears headphones basically all day at work
             | (painter...) I 100% agree. It's a whole different
             | experience, in a different dynamic.
             | 
             | On a similar note, 80% of the time I'm wearing my Sony
             | linkbuds -- the ones with the "they have a hole in them"
             | passthrough, even though they have the shortest battery
             | life of the multiple sets I own.
             | 
             | Realistically, beyond the (not dismissing) "they are trash
             | when the batteries die" aspect of things, taking your
             | headphones out for 10-20 minutes every 4 ish hours... Is
             | probably a good thing for our ears and minds alike.
        
               | woogley wrote:
               | I can't believe there's another linkbuds fan in the
               | world. No other earbud feels so transparent and light to
               | me.
               | 
               | I actually bought a few pairs of these because I'm afraid
               | they will discontinue them. Their newer model does not
               | have the hole.
        
           | atombender wrote:
           | Sennheiser's Momentum True Wireless are really, really good.
           | A significant upgrade from AirPods.
           | 
           | The first two generations were notorious for connectivity
           | glitches, but the TW3s appear to have fixed everything by.
           | Great ANC, battery life, ear fit.
           | 
           | They even added multipoint through a free software update
           | that came out about a year after launch.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | We don't know if this is more sustainable than AirPods without
         | an actual supply chain analysis.
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | Quite right. Hopefully they're canny enough to provide that.
           | 
           | I love my AirPod Pros.
           | 
           | They may not have the best sound but having noise cancelling
           | headphones I can keep my pocket is transformative.
           | 
           | I love that there's no cable to pick up mechanical noise as
           | it catches on things.
           | 
           | What I don't love is buying more Apple stuff or knowing their
           | batteries can't be replaced.
           | 
           | When my AirPods break I'll be in the market for these.
        
           | Rinzler89 wrote:
           | You need a analysis to tell you that products with user
           | replaceable batteries are more sustainable than those with
           | glued in batteries?
        
         | ccppurcell wrote:
         | I didn't realise the fairphone didn't have a jack input. I had
         | a fair phone 2. I'm slowly starting to think the company is a
         | scam. My fairphone could have lasted quite a while longer but
         | they stopped making the part I needed. I mean we need more
         | things like this in the market place so there could be 3rd
         | party but there wasn't any option (this was a couple of years
         | ago now)
        
           | raffraffraff wrote:
           | I'm still rocking an FP3, but the biggest issue is Android
           | 13. It's great that they still provide these updates but 13
           | alsolutely _blows_ on this device compared to 12. Everything
           | is slow. I 'd try Lineage OS but I have a feeling my banking
           | app won't work, and tbh I'm done with all that messing
           | around.
           | 
           | I'll likely upgrade once the EU finally forces all phone
           | companies to release phones with user replaceable batteries,
           | and someone produces a phone that isn't gigantic. There
           | aren't any medium sized phones any more. Everything's half a
           | foot long.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | My android phone will use any USB headsets which also don't
         | need batteries. Does that not work on the fairphone?
        
           | jamesrr39 wrote:
           | You can get/buy a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter. Annoying that there
           | isn't a 3.5mm port on the phone itself but in the grand
           | scheme of things not a huge inconvenience & life goes on.
           | 
           | (I have a Fairphone 4)
        
         | kemayo wrote:
         | It's easy and cheap to get USB-C to headphone jack adaptors, so
         | anyone who wants to use wired headphones can do so. (The
         | _Apple_ one is $9, and we know how they like to gouge on
         | accessories.) I 've also seen simultaneous headphone-and-
         | charging variants for under $10.
         | 
         | Personally, I could never stand using wired headphones with my
         | phone, so I wouldn't want to do it. But the option's there.
        
       | lawlessone wrote:
       | This is better than a phone I think which requires constant
       | updates and support.
        
       | summm wrote:
       | > Codec: SBC & AAC No LC3? No LE Audio? So, still HFP/SBC
       | telephony with crappy microphone quality and in mono? For that
       | price, in 2024?
        
         | blackbeans wrote:
         | It's their first iteration and I applaud their effort. It takes
         | at least a year to develop something like this and the sales
         | quantities will be lower compared to the big brands, so the
         | price is understandable.
         | 
         | You seem to belong to group of consumers that wants to
         | compromise lifespan and sustainability in favor of features and
         | price. That's fine, but it simply means you are not their
         | target audience for this product.
        
           | abdullahkhalids wrote:
           | Isn't more advanced codecs just software? The hardware
           | support should be there, given its bluetooth 5.3. Is it just
           | a case of them not licensing the advanced codecs?
        
             | petsfed wrote:
             | Think about the device that is performing the decoding.
             | 
             | At its core, It's an ultra-low-power microcontroller, and
             | the low-power requirements to hit the battery life
             | specification while maintaining audio quality may or may
             | not allow the kind of software abstractions that make these
             | codecs "just software". Once you've licensed the codec, you
             | then have to implement it on the micro's architecture, in a
             | way that's actually performant. Which in turn may or may
             | not require actual Assembly work.
        
               | abdullahkhalids wrote:
               | Thanks for explaining.
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | Airpods Pro v2 was released in 2022/2023 also uses AAC.
        
         | hollandheese wrote:
         | AAC is a perfectly fine audio codec.
        
       | markhahn wrote:
       | wake me when the firmware is replaceable too.
        
       | ebiester wrote:
       | I think the key differentiator here for audiophiles is that they
       | are allowing EQ from their app. I think if Resolve, Crinacle or
       | similar gets their hands on it (though Crin has his own
       | competition in the wired space) and creates a good EQ profile and
       | it's competitive, I think this could carve out an important
       | niche.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | It's not clear to me whether they allow arbitrary equalization
         | of enough points (say, 10 parametric or 40+ fixed bands) or
         | just a selection among their presets.
         | 
         | Anyone know?
        
       | WheatMillington wrote:
       | I've never had airbuds for long enough that the battery degraded
       | before I lost or broke the buds. I'm not sure this is solving
       | much of a real problem.
        
         | plufz wrote:
         | Maybe not for you, definitely for me.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | People are different. I don't do the "true wireless" thing at
         | all because I would lose them in under a month. My wife just
         | upgraded her Airpods from late 2017 only because the battery
         | life had degraded to about 20 minutes.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | Maybe I'm crazy here but I think it would be better to have a
       | recycling process for earbuds than trying to develop ones with
       | replaceable batteries.
       | 
       | It just seems like a lot of overhead for something nobody is
       | going to use in practice.
        
         | samtheprogram wrote:
         | I have two pairs of perfectly good wireless headphones I don't
         | use anymore because the batteries are screwed. No replacement
         | method, it's just ewaste. Basically $200+ destroyed.
         | 
         | I have since bought a phone with a headphone jack and stopped
         | buying wireless headphones.
         | 
         | Old generation, wired Bose in-ear go for under $50 on eBay.
         | Sound quality is better too.
         | 
         | The wire interfering with my jacket took some getting used to
         | again.
         | 
         | EDIT: oh yeah, the batteries don't die while you're using wired
         | headphones, either. No more 1-ear'ing so there's always a bud
         | with battery.
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | I'd use them. I got my Airpods Pro v1 replaced once already
         | because of the battery life. The v2 has no significant benefits
         | to shell out $250 after only using the v1s for 2 years.
        
         | markstos wrote:
         | Recycling e-waste starts with de-manufacturing. The same
         | features that make tech repairable are the same details that
         | make them recyclable.
         | 
         | One of the first steps to recycle an earbud would be to remove
         | the battery and handle that separately from the plastic and
         | metal.
        
       | robocat wrote:
       | They look like custom batteries.
       | 
       | Why did they not use a standard battery like a 18350 or 16340 for
       | the case? Other advantages too (easy to find alternative chargers
       | and can keep a charged spare).
       | 
       | I presume size constraints would make it difficult to find a
       | commodity battery size for the earbuds?
        
       | nutrie wrote:
       | I just don't get how they're still around. I'd never spend EUR
       | 700 for an android phone. It's sad, but iOS is so much better.
        
         | rvense wrote:
         | I've got one a 3+, had a 2 for six or so years before. It's an
         | adequate phone, does what I need. I'm far from a heavy phone
         | user, though, so it's not so important to me that I could've
         | got better specs for the same money elsewhere, I'd rather
         | companies have Fairphone's focus than Samsung's focus, so I
         | chose to buy from them.
         | 
         | (I also quite like that they only have one model so it's easy
         | to decide which one to get)
        
         | lock-the-spock wrote:
         | I guess you miss the selling point(s) as you see the phone only
         | as its final product and the direct benefits to you. That has
         | never been the ambition. Here's why _I_ bought Fairphones for
         | my family:
         | 
         | * Fair supply chains. This was their original selling point and
         | is still an incredible unique feature. They changed cobalt and
         | copper supply chains and established tracing mechanisms that
         | now other manufacturers can also use.
         | 
         | * Self-repairable. I switched two screens so far, probably not
         | a huge cost difference to the neighbourhood dirty phone repair
         | shop, but I feel better about it.
         | 
         | * Social enterprise, giving back to the community
         | 
         | * Nice to know my funds go mostly to a good cause and everyone
         | in the supply and production chain is treated well (they even
         | pay a premium to manufacturers so workers at the assembly line
         | get paid a fair wage).
         | 
         | I am well aware it's not the best phone. It's rather clunky,
         | camera used to be weak (got much better with the latest
         | update), and I had some small issues. But overall a solid
         | phone, I support a de kind of ecosystem that really improves
         | things down the line and I don't need to feed Sony or Apple
         | execs money.
        
       | opeon wrote:
       | Advocate of the devil, but I've never replaced my earbuds /
       | headphones because of the battery life. Usually one of them gets
       | lost, or actually crushed and breaks.
        
         | voxgen wrote:
         | I've had 2 sets of AirPods die because of the batteries aging
         | and losing their ability to hold a charge. Though to be fair,
         | their microphones failed much earlier then their batteries, and
         | noise cancelling gets some really annoying failure modes when
         | the microphone has issues. I should have replaced them sooner.
         | I also should find a brand that doesn't have consistent
         | manufacturing quality issues...
        
           | code_runner wrote:
           | microphones have failed for me in the past as well, though to
           | be fair, apple gave me a free repair for one issue on their
           | end.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | I have not yet had this issue because the ANC has improved
         | enough with each generation that I wanted to move up before the
         | batteries became unusable in my old pair. But I could see this
         | changing in the future, as ANC levels out. Also, it's easier to
         | avoid losing AirPods these days thanks to Find My, which can
         | also now find in-case AirPods.
        
       | wbkang wrote:
       | Sony WF-1000XM3,4 had fairly easily replaceable batteries, but
       | they regressed with the latest XM5. iFixedIt covered it here
       | https://www.ifixit.com/News/79140/sony-just-nerfed-their-mos...
       | 
       | I am still using the XM3 - both the earbud and case batteries are
       | repleacable.
        
         | Fnoord wrote:
         | I have owned WF-1000XM3, 4, and (currently) 5. I got the 5 with
         | discount as replacement for the 4 since the battery of one
         | earbud was dead due to a firmware bug.
         | 
         | The noise cancelling gets slightly better each iteration.
         | There's another thing the 3 and 4 are better at than the 5:
         | easier to get out of the charging case.
         | 
         | Also, while you could replace the batteries in each of these
         | versions, the IP rating would be in practice regressed.
        
       | allenap wrote:
       | Small thing / pet peeve: the website sets language based on my
       | location rather than on what my browser is telling it is my
       | language of choice in every single HTTP request.
        
       | carom wrote:
       | If these had pass-through audio I would buy them instantly.
        
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