[HN Gopher] Beeper acquired by Automattic
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Beeper acquired by Automattic
        
       Author : Belphemur
       Score  : 417 points
       Date   : 2024-04-09 15:09 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.beeper.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.beeper.com)
        
       | jamesmunns wrote:
       | I really like Beeper, and congrats to them for getting acquired,
       | but my first reaction is "aw damn how long until the parts I love
       | about Beeper get incredible journey'd away".
       | 
       | The new android app is really good, the desktop app has always
       | been a step up from other Element apps I've used (it is a distant
       | fork, these days), I don't have iMessage, but it works great with
       | Matrix and Signal and WhatsApp a ton of other "rarely used" apps
       | I have.
        
         | lagniappe wrote:
         | >incredible journey'd away
         | 
         | I'm calling Webster's right now.
        
           | Philpax wrote:
           | Welcome to our incredible journey:
           | https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/
        
             | Analemma_ wrote:
             | That link is probably more apropos than you intend, since
             | Automattic also now owns Tumblr and has been a decent
             | steward of it thus far, _not_ shutting it down even though
             | it undoubtedly loses lots of money. Instead, they made a
             | good-faith effort to make it profitable, before putting it
             | in minimal-cost maintenance mode when that didn 't work
             | out.
             | 
             | If an "indie service" I loved had to get bought by
             | somebody, Automattic would be among my top choices.
        
         | rmccue wrote:
         | Automattic _very_ rarely shuts down any products they acquire,
         | so I 'd certainly be less concerned with them as the buyer
         | compared to another company. (Their failure mode for
         | acquisitions tends to be underresourcing them and letting them
         | stagnate, not actually shutting them down.)
        
         | COGlory wrote:
         | Automattic rescued Pocket Casts from NPR, and made them open
         | source. Tumblr from Verizon. In general they're very good
         | stewards.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Oh wow, thank you for posting this! I did not realize that
           | they open sourced Pocket Casts. That is really neat of them.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | FWIW, Automatic has bought a few projects I use (PocketCasts,
         | Simplenote) and seem to have been pretty good stewards. For
         | Simplenote they actually reduced the monetization (although a
         | decade after the acquisition they've started remonetizing in a
         | lowkey way which is hopefully sustainable)
        
       | edude03 wrote:
       | Kind of surprising, 1- because Automatic is known for wordpress,
       | what's the play with messaging? 2- They apparently acquired
       | texts.com as well so clearly an area they are interested in.
       | 
       | I also would prefer not to see consolidation but also I imagine
       | it's hard to make money on this kind of product so maybe that
       | drove the decision to merge?
        
         | basisword wrote:
         | Automattic owns a few properties other than Wordpress now. They
         | also own Pocketcasts (podcast client), Tumblr, and Day One
         | (journalling software).
        
       | kilroy123 wrote:
       | I hope they don't change the pricing after this. I've been using
       | Beeper for a few years now.
        
         | xenospn wrote:
         | I'm not familiar with their business model - what value are you
         | getting by paying for a messaging app?
        
           | bluish29 wrote:
           | Not having to use multiple messaging apps. Some people would
           | pay for this convenience. i.e They support several messaging
           | apps so I don't have to tell peopl thag I don't use WhatsApp
           | now.
        
             | beeboobaa3 wrote:
             | > so I don't have to tell peopl thag I don't use WhatsApp
             | now
             | 
             | Because you actually are using WhatsApp?
             | 
             | > Some people would pay for this convenience
             | 
             | Some remember when this used to be widespread and free:
             | https://www.pidgin.im/
        
               | ixwt wrote:
               | Yes, and you can get most of the Matrix bridges that
               | Beeper uses and host the service yourself.
               | 
               | Beeper is just a skin over Matrix, and they are hosting
               | and managing the bridges for you. So that when any of
               | protocols they support breaks because the other company
               | changes something (or intentionally breaks things to stop
               | connections from clients they don't want), Beeper fixes
               | it rather than you having to wait for the open source
               | community to do so and you implement that fix. Which who
               | knows how long either scenario will take.
               | 
               | Paying for Beeper is not having to manage the self
               | hosting, which many are not willing to do. Because as
               | with most open source solutions, it's not very simple and
               | is intimidating for many. Not to mention having some box
               | open to the internet, and having to maintain security
               | updates for that box.
               | 
               | I would love for libpurple to come back and make these
               | things relatively simple. But the reality is that
               | companies have walled off their gardens to control the
               | experience, and many other reasons ranging from greed to
               | security to spam mitigation.
        
           | jamesmunns wrote:
           | Yeah, having all of your messaging in one place is amazing.
           | Especially since they support a decent long tail of DM
           | services as well.
        
             | xenospn wrote:
             | I use iMessage, messenger/IG, WhatsApp, Snapchat and slack.
             | Probably not much value for my specific use case.
        
         | unshavedyak wrote:
         | What pricing? I've been on Beeper for a few months and i've not
         | seen any.
         | 
         | Ironically i joined because of iMessage, which got almost
         | immediately ripped from me because Beeper thought it was good
         | idea to piss off Apple (... sorry, annoyed). When i joined the
         | service was great, but the last couple months (basically since
         | the iMessage drama) it has been weirdly unstable. I see a lot
         | of encrypted messages (as in, the message doesn't receive
         | properly and all the receiver sees is "message encrypted"),
         | images failing, gifs failing, generally bad behavior when
         | connection is poor, etc.
         | 
         | I was interested when i joined because i thought they were just
         | going to offer a service i could pay for, like Kagi. Yet now
         | this feels like another enshittification just waiting to
         | happen.
        
           | isx726552 wrote:
           | > Beeper thought it was good idea to piss off Apple...
           | 
           | Publicity stunt to raise their visibility in hopes of
           | acquisition. Today's news shows it worked.
        
           | kilroy123 wrote:
           | I paid $120 up front. I'm worried they'll switch to a monthly
           | subscription after this.
        
             | nicce wrote:
             | Since texts.com has subscription and rumor says that they
             | are merged, just a matter of time.
        
               | drkleiner wrote:
               | > Our teams and products will merge
               | 
               | From the article, not a rumor.
        
       | Belphemur wrote:
       | I wonder if the plan is to merge Beeper and Texts.com.
       | 
       | They both look verify similar in their features. Maybe texts.com
       | for the Apple Ecosystem and Beeper for the Android one ?
       | 
       | After all, Beeper just released their new version of the app for
       | Android.
        
         | bluish29 wrote:
         | Beeper is cross platform. They have an app for iOS and Mac.
        
           | ghostly_s wrote:
           | OP didn't day Mac. They were presumably referring to Apple's
           | main platform, iOS.
        
             | bluish29 wrote:
             | I replied before the OP edited the comment substantially.
        
           | batuhanicoz wrote:
           | Both of our apps are cross-platform. Both Texts and Beeper
           | are available on Windows, Linux, and macOS. Texts for iOS is
           | in public beta, you can join the TestFlight:
           | https://texts.com/install/ios
        
         | austinkhale wrote:
         | Seems that way. From the announcement: "This is a big bet.
         | Automattic is doubling down on chat after their acquisition
         | last year of Texts.com, a messaging app with a similar mission.
         | Our teams and products will merge, and I will take on the role
         | leading the team as Head of Messaging. It will take a bit of
         | time for us to integrate and combine forces under the Beeper
         | brand. We've got big plans!"
        
         | timdorr wrote:
         | The bottom line of the post says as such (sorry if it was
         | edited in after you posted)
         | 
         | "For Texts.com users... [...] Over time, we will work to
         | integrate the teams and products. More news to come in the
         | future!"
        
         | joenot443 wrote:
         | Does anyone know how the texts.com iMessage integration works?
         | 
         | EDIT - It's macOS only. Nothing new to see here, I'm afraid.
        
           | ghostly_s wrote:
           | Came to ask the same, is that really true? They have a
           | graphic on their homepage that certainly implies you can use
           | it as a replacement for iMessage on iOS. I can't imagine
           | anyone doing that if you can no longer actually reach anyone
           | on iMessage.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _They have a graphic on their homepage that certainly
             | implies you can use it as a replacement for iMessage on
             | iOS._
             | 
             | You can. You run a "router" on your Mac, which allows
             | iMessage interop without the protocol hacking that doomed
             | Beeper.
        
         | TechRemarker wrote:
         | Yes, it mentioned Texts and Beeper teams will be merging under
         | the Beeper brand. So essentially the end of Texts. Presumably
         | will bring some parts of Texts app to Beeper that doesn't
         | exist, but overall glad I abandoned Texts little while back,
         | since while loved the idea, was very buggy with notifications
         | delayed, or sometimes unable to send certain types of messages
         | through certain services etc. And no pathway at the time for
         | support on iOS. With all the EU stuff, there is a chance maybe
         | people will be forced to open up more as would love to have a
         | single app to manage all messaging but certainly far from
         | hopeful that will come to be, at least without downsides.
        
         | drkleiner wrote:
         | They will likely dismantle Texts and focus on Beeper as it
         | received more investment while taking the good of Texts. They
         | will probably introduce Texts monetization model to Beeper
         | though.
         | 
         | One app for Apple and another for Android kinda defeats the
         | purpose of "all in one platform", wouldn't it?
        
           | jamiequint wrote:
           | I hope not, have you used both apps? Texts is much more
           | stable and easy to use than Beeper in my experience.
        
             | Grustaf wrote:
             | The Beeper codebase is also in a pretty bad state.
        
               | hbn wrote:
               | Didn't they just do a ground-up rewrite?
        
               | COGlory wrote:
               | What information is this based on?
        
             | qeternity wrote:
             | Texts.com runs locally, Beeper runs bridges.
        
             | artdigital wrote:
             | Not my experience. I've tried (and am still trying) texts
             | and not once I was able to have it just work. Constantly
             | messages not showing up, accounts not loading, or something
             | else missing. I've been submitting heaps of feedback to the
             | Texts team.
             | 
             | It looks great but feels very alpha/beta to me, and I
             | decided to not renew my subscription
        
         | dorian-graph wrote:
         | Merging the 2 will be interesting since they take opposite
         | approaches? Texts doesn't use bridges.
        
         | gmays wrote:
         | Yes, from the post:
         | 
         | > Automattic is doubling down on chat after their acquisition
         | last year of Texts.com, a messaging app with a similar mission.
         | Our teams and products will merge, and I will take on the role
         | leading the team as Head of Messaging.
        
         | batuhanicoz wrote:
         | Both Texts and Beeper are in active development while we work
         | hard behind the scenes to combine the best parts of both under
         | the Beeper brand.
         | 
         | So we'll only have Beeper on every platform.
        
       | eugenekolo wrote:
       | Smart of Beeper to accept an acquisition/exit as soon as possible
       | before their product gets further eroded by non-public APIs
       | they're reliant on. Tough to build a business where at any time
       | your product can get wiped out by Apple/Meta.
        
         | theamk wrote:
         | I would not be surprised if this was their plan from day 1:
         | 
         | (1) Create a product which relies on non-public APIs which can
         | be disabled at any time.
         | 
         | (2) Generate lots of press visibility.
         | 
         | (3) Sell itself to some gullible org before the whole thing
         | comes crashing down.
        
           | mvkel wrote:
           | What makes automattic gullible?
        
             | wokwokwok wrote:
             | I mean, maybe the reality is more nuanced but the optics...
             | 
             | > Matt, Automattic's CEO, and I have known each other for
             | years. He was an early user, supporter and investor in
             | Beeper
             | 
             | It certainly sounds like...
             | 
             | Beeper was in the bin after the beeper mini fiasco, and
             | resulting massive brand damage (brand aweness is only good
             | if it means people actually want to use your product, not
             | active distrust it), so the friend and early investor CEO
             | of Automattic saved their failing personal investment by
             | bailing them out and letting automattic foot the bill.
             | 
             | Nice having a friend CEO, huh?
             | 
             | I mean, you've got to hope/believe the other folk at
             | automattic did their due diligence, but it does _look_ like
             | automattic is paying the bills for their CEO to bail out
             | their friends.
             | 
             | That would make them gullible and seems pretty shady unless
             | they really do have some astonishing reason to expect this
             | to pay off... or they got it dirt cheap, in my opinion.
        
               | afavour wrote:
               | > Beeper was in the bin after the beeper mini fiasco, and
               | resulting massive brand damage
               | 
               | I don't think that's true at all. I'd never heard of
               | Beeper before their integration with iMessage and the
               | fact that it was disabled by Apple was seen as a negative
               | on Apple, not Beeper. They raised their profile, now
               | they're cashing out.
        
               | mvkel wrote:
               | This isn't how business works.
               | 
               | A "CEO friend" isn't going to give you $125m out of the
               | goodness of their heart so some random shareholders can
               | save face.
               | 
               | Worst case, the business fails, everyone happily moves
               | on.
               | 
               | How do you think automattic is funding this transaction?
               | There are underwriters. And underwriters need rigorous dd
               | to justify $1,000 let alone $125m.
               | 
               | Even if it's an all-stock deal, a transaction like this
               | would need board approval, and a good board needs ...
               | rigorous dd.
        
               | housebear wrote:
               | This is the same board that approved the Tumblr
               | acquisition, presumably. So...a good board...?
        
               | mvkel wrote:
               | For pennies on the dollar, and for a very specific
               | strategy, which Mullenweg outlined pretty thoroughly.
               | 
               | Did it work? No, but I don't know of any examples of an
               | entrepreneur who bats 1000
        
               | markx2 wrote:
               | They approved the tumblr deal.
               | 
               | Matt promised targets.
               | 
               | Every target was missed and financially the deal was a
               | failure.
               | 
               | The board then stopped any further acquisitions.
               | 
               | I would guess that texts / beeper were cheap and that
               | Matt is looking at a very very long time to profit. He
               | was once a fan of the 'pizza/team' ratio that
               | Bezos/Amazon pushed, so maybe that's where he is looking.
        
               | ksherlock wrote:
               | counterpoint: Tesla/Musk/Solar City
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | From 2005 to the end Yahoo's role in the SV ecosystem
               | seemed to be the people who would buy any company if the
               | founder had the right connections, for instance the son
               | of a private equity lord who licensed a worthless patent
               | from Stanford that Yahoo paid $100+ for.
               | 
               | It is a magical way to turn "anybody" into a successful
               | founder or VC if they've got the right connections and in
               | fact you can create both ex-nihilo in one transaction.
               | 
               | If you read the newspapers you'd never find out that 70%
               | of acquisitions achieve their goals. A lot of that is you
               | hear more about the ones that fail and not the ones that
               | succeed. The ones that fail give many people the
               | impression that there is nothing rational at all about
               | how acquisitions happen in corporate America.
        
               | paulryanrogers wrote:
               | DD?
        
               | tithe wrote:
               | Due Diligence
        
               | PedroBatista wrote:
               | That's the script but reality is not exactly as the
               | script says.
               | 
               | There are a lot friend and family members of so-and-so
               | who are "worth" a few million dollars and that money was
               | largely a gift. They largely spend a lot of time
               | pretending to be "founders", "advisors" and "angels" but
               | no, they got lucky.
               | 
               | Not everything is like that, but there's quite a lot of
               | that within the billions of someone else's money's ocean
               | that flushed SF during the last +20 years.
        
               | mvkel wrote:
               | $125 million dollars. To "help" a friend save face?
               | 
               | When a similar acquisition was made a year ago? And it
               | perfectly aligns with a their stated thesis that texting
               | becomes a CLI in the future?
               | 
               | The more successful an entrepreneur, the more allergic
               | they are to spending money
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | My theory is Beeper being a sacrificial lamb so
           | Google/Samsung can cry to EU about iMessage. "See they're
           | restricting this poor little startup from competing! Pay no
           | attention to the funding coming from Samsung, this is
           | definitely a poor underdog of a company!"
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | It wasn't, they genuinely believe in Beeper, and the long
           | term plan was rather to become the leading chat app in their
           | own right, with users communicating over the Beeper protocol.
        
             | LorenDB wrote:
             | A bit of pedanticism here - it's not the Beeper protocol,
             | it's the Matrix protocol. Beeper is built on top of Matrix
             | (using bridges that you could host on your own server if
             | you wanted).
        
               | xinayder wrote:
               | Except there are a lot of Beeper-only Matrix spec
               | implementations that aren't available for everyone else.
               | In other words, no other Matrix homeserver or client can
               | benefit from the features Beeper has.
        
         | ClaraForm wrote:
         | I'm confused, because it legally sounds like the opposite
         | right? All these platforms are legally going to be requested to
         | open up sooner or later because of recent EU rulings. Perhaps
         | Beeper just ran out of runway? They thought they'd be making
         | money in December with their iMessage move, and now it's April?
        
           | eugenekolo wrote:
           | That's a bit of my point. At any time your business model can
           | get interrupted when you're doing things "that the big
           | company isn't, but holds the gate to".
           | 
           | Big company might get more aggressive and make your life
           | harder developing. Big company might get less gatekeeper and
           | open up the gates so now you have more competition. Big
           | company might do it themselves and add interoperability and
           | now your product is almost useless.
           | 
           | It's a business model that works to get to some point, and
           | then exit as soon as possible, IMO.
        
             | ClaraForm wrote:
             | I guess I didn't think about it like that. If everyone
             | opens up, Beeper's competition is suddenly WhatsApp,
             | instead of being one of their assets.
        
           | basisword wrote:
           | If all of these services fully open up there will be 100%
           | free and/or open source clients available and Beeper won't be
           | able to compete. Before all of these walled gardens we have
           | tools like Pidgin and if they open up those will be viable
           | again.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | To be fair, almost all networks that Pidgin could connect
             | to (Jabber/XMPP being a notable exception) used proprietary
             | protocols, and their operators heavily discouraged third-
             | party interoperability.
             | 
             | The difference is that there wasn't any way to do robust
             | hardware attestation at the time (which is what Apple does
             | to frustrate Beeper-like iMessage interoperability), so the
             | reverse engineers usually won.
             | 
             | Here's an interesting story from that time:
             | https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/
        
             | pkulak wrote:
             | The bridges are already free and open source and I don't
             | see my friends and family racing to get them running on
             | their laptops. Pidgin is great, but something needs to be
             | running on a server or you don't get notifications. And
             | without notifications, what's the point of a messaging app?
        
               | rw_grim wrote:
               | I wrote more on this topic here https://dev.to/grim/why-
               | is-there-no-mobile-version-of-pidgin...
        
         | yoavm wrote:
         | With all the new regulations coming out of the EU, I think that
         | if Beeper stays around long enough they might actually live to
         | see the day where these networks have official APIs.
        
           | drkleiner wrote:
           | Then Beeper would just be replaced by bigger fish (or open
           | source fish)
        
             | yoavm wrote:
             | All the bridges used by Beeper are already open source, and
             | Beeper itself uses Matrix which is open source too.
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | They are running Matrix bridges in the cloud for people that do
         | not want to self host. Don't think the iMessage stunt was
         | really planned. It was an opportunity to get visibility. Should
         | rather thank them: they put regulatory pressure on apple.
        
         | guluarte wrote:
         | I agree it must be a engineering nightmare, a whatsapp/imessage
         | update and your app is gone.
        
       | user_7832 wrote:
       | Honestly given how dim of a view Apple takes of others tearing
       | down their artificial walls, having the (legal) backing of a
       | large company might be a good thing... assuming they don't shut
       | it down of course.
        
         | misnome wrote:
         | Beeper does plenty besides PR stunts (which seems to have paid
         | off)
        
           | user_7832 wrote:
           | You mean the other chat apps, right? Or do they do something
           | other than chat as well?
           | 
           | In any case I'm not sure if I'd call their iMessage thing a
           | PR stunt (okay, the tweets were likely PR), I'm just happy
           | they support as many standards as they can. (I'm also not
           | sure if my original comment was seen as wrong or
           | controversial judging by the downvote)
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | Oh noooooooooo. And I have two Beepy.
        
         | KingOfCoders wrote:
         | Acquisitions go mostly wrong and the buyer usually kills of
         | side projects - $200 gone.
        
       | BadHumans wrote:
       | If they had to get acquired, Automattic is most likely the best I
       | could've hoped for. The backing of a large company might help
       | Beeper get more formalized APIs since they depend on hidden APIs
       | and hacks to do what they do.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | Is Automattic big enough to achieve that? You'd think they
         | would be making a pretty penny from Wordpress.com and Tumblr,
         | but these days you wouldn't pick either one over the
         | competition (Wix, Squarespace Threads, IG etc).
        
           | joenot443 wrote:
           | I still choose WP over Wix or SquareSpace when given the
           | option. Self hosting a bunch of WP sites on a DigitalOcean
           | instance and mirroring them all through CloudFlare is
           | probably the cheapest way to run high traffic read-only
           | sites. Toss in ServerPilot and you can spin up sites about as
           | quickly as you could doing the Wix onboarding.
           | 
           | My prediction is that by 2030 Wordpress will be just as
           | popular as it is today :)
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | WordPress.com isn't self-hosted, it's the freemium cloud
             | version comparable to Wix and Squarespace.
             | 
             | Automattic isn't making any money on the open-source
             | version that can be hosted anywhere.
        
               | joenot443 wrote:
               | You're right, that distinction's very important. I'd
               | never recommend WordPress.com, I'm just a fan of
               | Wordpress the OSS.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | In the past I would have argued against you, but the WP
             | block editor has taken away most of the advantage that
             | Wix/SquareSpace had. I've done the same as you now. You can
             | buy a $3/mo Hetzner ARM box and run 100 WP sites on it.
        
           | themoonisachees wrote:
           | Maybe.
           | 
           | It seems automattic is realizing that there is value in being
           | "the established service that does what the giants are doing
           | but isn't the giants". Personally and I think the HN crowd
           | would agree with me, I see the value proposition in using
           | Tumblr, beeper, WordPress over their competitors, simply
           | because automattic has amassed a lot of consumer trust in not
           | running things into the ground and making interesting things
           | out of software that seems like it shouldn't be there.
        
           | mbesto wrote:
           | Automattic does like $200~$300M in revenue.
        
             | fuzztester wrote:
             | And profits?
        
         | ravetcofx wrote:
         | I've been pretty impressed with their Pocket Casts acquisition
         | from NPR to date, they open sourced the apps which was a great
         | bit of community service.
        
       | philg_jr wrote:
       | This is cool. I always knew that Matrix could theoretically
       | support anything chat related, but I had no idea that Beeper
       | existed and a company was formed around the idea. This is
       | actually exciting to me. It sounds stupid, but I can't wait to
       | ditch the Apple ecosystem.
        
         | LorenDB wrote:
         | Ditching Apple is not stupid at all. There's plenty of options
         | that are less hostile overall and provide more choice.
         | 
         | See also: https://youtube.com/watch?v=qcH2wgRLiV8
        
       | diamondfist25 wrote:
       | I wonder how texts.com and the matrix apps will work together.
       | 
       | I've dug deep into both products --- texts.com basically is
       | browser in browser app that pulls in messages from your logged in
       | session, while matrix you have to deploy bridges that pulls
       | messages and sync to a db in the cloud, and app then syncs to
       | that.
       | 
       | Matrix was a bit pain in the ass to work with, and texts.com was
       | more straight forward
        
       | drkleiner wrote:
       | Good for both products, Beeper and Texts, but seems like there
       | will be layoffs coming
        
       | erohead wrote:
       | Exciting day for Beeper! It all started here on HN 3 years ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25848278
        
         | gwerbret wrote:
         | > Exciting day for Beeper!
         | 
         | Congratulations on your successful exit, but is it actually an
         | exciting day for Beeper? Your product has been assimilated into
         | something of a behemoth, whose goals (in spite of the text of
         | your announcement) aren't necessarily those of a free and open
         | internet through open communication protocols. Do you foresee a
         | five-year timeline in which anti-monopoly legislation forces an
         | opening up of the WhatsApp/iMessage/Messenger walled gardens?
         | And if that were to happen, do you foresee Beeper still
         | existing as a standalone product? Do you foresee there actually
         | being a need for Beeper versus, say, a rejuvenated (and very
         | open) Pidgin?
         | 
         | Yeah, neither do I...although I do prefer to be optimistic.
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | If you've followed Beeper, you know that roughly 50% of our
           | product is already open source (https://github.com/beeper).
           | You can run your own Matrix server and use our bridges, or
           | self-host the bridges and use Beeper clients
           | (https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager). For all intents
           | and purposes, Beeper _is_ the rejuvenated and very open
           | Pidgin.
           | 
           | Automattic is a fantastic home for us. We needed a home (or
           | new investors) to keep working on Beeper.
        
             | okennedy wrote:
             | > Automattic is a fantastic home for us. We needed a home
             | (or new investors) to keep working on Beeper.
             | 
             | Is the added investment necessary to scale out specific
             | features, or is it to address challenges related to
             | profitability?
        
             | nextaccountic wrote:
             | > 50% of our product is already open source
             | 
             | What parts are closed source? Are there any plans to open
             | them up?
        
             | xinayder wrote:
             | Since now you have more resources, do you plan on open
             | sourcing your whole solution, or will Beeper still be
             | "half" open source? As far as I'm aware you still cannot
             | use the Beeper client with your own self-hosted Matrix
             | instance, and there's quite a lot of Beeper-only features
             | that never became Matrix spec proposals. Is there a plan to
             | make these features available to the whole Matrix
             | ecosystem? Should I be worried that open source development
             | of the mautrix bridges will cease, to focus on a commercial
             | product?
        
             | rw_grim wrote:
             | FWIW, Pidgin is still very much alive, we even had a
             | release in February... Also not sure what "very open
             | Pidgin" means as we're 100% GPLv2 but whatever.
        
         | COGlory wrote:
         | Congrats on the new position and future of Beeper. I think
         | Automattic will be a great home and I've been impressed with
         | what they've done with other projects as well.
         | 
         | Are you planning to continue using Matrix to underpin Beeper?
         | 
         | Now I just wish there was convenient way to screen my Beeper
         | notifications without having to take my phone out of my pocket
         | every time it buzzes...
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | > Are you planning to continue using Matrix to underpin
           | Beeper?
           | 
           | Yes, all of Beeper is built on top of Matrix.
        
         | spxneo wrote:
         | Congratulations! Must be an absolute thrill
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | Here is my Beeper timeline:
       | 
       | March 9, 2021: Paid $120
       | 
       | June 2, 2021: It's your turn to start using Beeper
       | 
       | June 10, 2021: Invite code for upcoming Beeper onboarding
       | 
       | July 2, 2021: totally locked up now
       | 
       | At which point, I had a few more back and forth emails (looks
       | like about 27 from 7/2/2021 - 7/16/2021), and finally gave up.
       | 
       | Good for them to get that exit. They put a lot of work into it,
       | but it seemed like an impossible problem to solve.
        
         | throwitaway222 wrote:
         | Sounds like that was a time period where it was vaporware?
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | Does anyone know how much Beeper raised, or how the economics of
       | this exit work out? Just curious how this stacks up for everyone.
       | 
       | UPDATE: _To date, Beeper had raised $16 million in outside
       | funding, including an $8 million Series A from Initialized. Other
       | investors include YC, Samsung Next, Liquid2Ventures, and angels
       | Garry Tan, Kevin Mahaffey, Niv Dror, and the group SV Angel._ [1]
       | 
       | 1: https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/09/wordpress-com-owner-
       | automa...
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | I wonder what the angle is here. Is Automattic going to help them
       | fight a legal battle against Apple's practices with locking down
       | their computing devices and platforms? Do _they_ even have the
       | resources for that? Or is this just an acquihire and abandonment
       | of that whole messaging thing?
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | > Is Automattic going to help them fight a legal battle against
         | Apple's practices
         | 
         | I'm no MBA, but it might be better business strategy to pile up
         | a million dollars and light it on fire
        
         | regularjack wrote:
         | Beeper is a unified messaging app that supports multiple
         | services, the iMessage thing was a separate app called Beeper
         | Mini.
         | 
         | I think Beeper will continue to be useful to people, regardless
         | of whether it supports iMessage or not. Obviously, supporting
         | iMessage would be a big plus, but from what I gather, many
         | people use it for other services.
        
       | kayson wrote:
       | Bummer that you have to use and link Google messages for sms now.
       | With the old app, it used the local sms database, though
       | performance was never as good as other sms apps for some reason.
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | Automattic sometimes acquires companies and does nothing with
       | them - like with Simplenote. As an early Beeper user, I am
       | disappointed!
        
         | glenstein wrote:
         | For me that is a positive, not a negative. They have kept it
         | alive, have not messed it up, and have not upset the apple cart
         | with wild changes resulting in loss of compatibility with past
         | versions. There can be cases where it's a negative but I think
         | Automattic has been a near-perfect steward of Simplenote. I
         | suppose my only concern as ever is how they keep it alive at
         | their expense without freemium'ing and paywalling it to death.
         | I assume they are just footing the bill for its continued
         | operation right now.
        
           | smcnally wrote:
           | Agreed re stewardship & hope for long-term viability.
           | Operation + updates ~3x / year for the iOS, macos and Linux
           | clients I use daily and also for Android and Windows.
           | Freemium and paywalling hasn't infringed on utility yet and
           | they've kept the source code available and GPLv2
           | 
           | https://github.com/Automattic/simplenote-electron
        
         | luuurker wrote:
         | Many companies don't know when to stop and end up killing their
         | products by introducing bloat which almost no one wants and
         | costs money to develop/maintain. Simplenote works, is
         | maintained, and does what it says on the name... more should be
         | like them.
         | 
         | If all they do is keep Beeper running reliably and add new
         | services as needed, then I'd say that's a good thing for most
         | users.
        
       | markx2 wrote:
       | "Matt, Automattic's CEO, and I have known each other for years.
       | He was an early user, supporter and investor in Beeper. "
       | 
       | Beeper were not important enough to be listed: https://audrey.co/
       | 
       | "Our privacy policy and terms of service remain the same, though
       | they may change in the future."
       | 
       | Reminder: wordpress.com shares data with 851 other companies.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | How does Automattic make money? Do they get paid to look the
         | other way when people's Wordpress blogs get spammed by SEO
         | links?
        
           | ecommerceguy wrote:
           | WooCommerce is one.
        
           | trickjarrett wrote:
           | They provide hosting for Wordpress blogs, and a number of
           | their backend tools have premium versions, such as backups,
           | etc.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | They run a proprietary SaaS called jetpack that injects a lot
           | of tracking into otherwise self hosted wordpress blogs.
        
         | Contortion wrote:
         | Plus your messages will no longer be fully E2E encrypted. As
         | per their FAQ (emphasis mine):
         | 
         | "For example, if you send a message from Beeper to a friend on
         | WhatsApp, the message is encrypted on your Beeper client, sent
         | to the bridge, which _decrypts and re-encrypts the message_
         | with WhatsApp 's proprietary encryption protocol."
         | 
         | Directly underneath that they also say:
         | 
         | "Using native end-to-end encrypted chat apps independently may
         | be more secure than connecting to them to Beeper"
         | 
         | https://www.beeper.com/faq#how-does-beeper-connect-to-encryp...
        
           | COGlory wrote:
           | What do you mean "no longer"? Beeper has always behaved like
           | this.
        
             | Contortion wrote:
             | No longer as in for a new user that currently uses
             | individual apps.
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | In context your use of "no longer" is very confusing.
               | This thread is talking about what might change in Beeper
               | as a service, if you want to interject with information
               | about how the service currently works there are other
               | phrases that would have made that clearer.
        
               | Contortion wrote:
               | You are correct. I was adding what I considered extra
               | privacy-relevant information in response to GPs statement
               | about WordPress sharing data with other companies, but
               | the fact that I'd not heard of Beeper before
               | unintentionally influenced my word choice.
        
           | mintplant wrote:
           | You can host the bridges yourself:
           | 
           | https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager
        
             | snowfield wrote:
             | Still won't be E2E as per their FAQ
        
               | tylerritchie wrote:
               | that FAQ is accurate but (rightly) doesn't cover high-
               | security deployments.
               | 
               | if I'm running the bridges local-to-the-client (I am, on
               | my McBook) it's not meaningfully any less e2ee.
               | encryption happens in the matrix client (running on the
               | laptop), the encrypted message is sent to the homeserver
               | on localhost, the bridge (on localhost) grabs the
               | encrypted message and decrypts it, then the bridge re-
               | encrypts it and sends it to Whatsapp (or wherever). the
               | content of the message is as secure over the wire with
               | this approach as using first-party apps directly
               | 
               | if one hosts their own bridges they're person-in-the-
               | middling themselves and should take all the necessary
               | precautions. if they're using beeper's hosted options
               | they have to delegate read/write ability to beeper
               | (though I think the signal and imessage bridges might be
               | device-local), and beeper is clear about that.
        
               | agile-gift0262 wrote:
               | But at least you are in control of the computer where the
               | decryption and re-encryption is happening.
               | 
               | They usually call it E2B (end to bridge)
        
       | ein0p wrote:
       | How does Automattic even survive and remain profitable (?)
       | nowadays? What's the niche?
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | Pretty sure plenty of small commercial websites still host on
         | wordpress.com. That and selling their user data to OpenAI.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | A big chunk of news media online use wordpress instead of a
         | custom CMS. So it's kind of the square space / wix / ghost for
         | news media. I imagine Wordpress offers managed website
         | instances for these companies.
        
         | rmccue wrote:
         | Automattic is primarily four core businesses:
         | 
         | 1. WordPress.com - Hosted SaaS for building websites. Very
         | cheap to run, includes ads on free sites, and they sell users
         | upgrades like custom domains or removing ads from their sites.
         | 
         | 2. Jetpack - Services for self-hosted WordPress sites, like
         | backups, social media integration, image CDN, antispam - mostly
         | paid services, again very cheap to run.
         | 
         | 3. WooCommerce - Open source ecommerce service. They sell add-
         | ons like payment gateways, and have their own with a percentage
         | fee of each transaction.
         | 
         | 4. WPVIP - Enterprise and high-scale hosting service. Expensive
         | ($25k/yr+) but worth it for large companies who run their
         | business off it, like newsrooms and marketing sites.
         | 
         | To my knowledge, they're each independently profitable.
         | Automattic also has a lot of additional smaller services which
         | support these, and various Other Bets.
         | 
         | (I don't work at Automattic, but have many friends there.)
        
           | krallja wrote:
           | I am on an old Premium plan for the Day One journaling app.
           | It was recently acquired by Automattic. Happy to keep paying,
           | but concerned that Apple recently Sherlocked it.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | Kinda sad. Beeper owns a ton of Matrix bridges. I wonder what
       | will happen now.
        
         | danpalmer wrote:
         | Sounds like they're planning to still run the Beeper service,
         | perhaps merged with Texts. I'd bet they'll still use Matrix, it
         | seems to be the very core of how Beeper works.
        
         | luuurker wrote:
         | Matt/Automattic is good at keeping things open source. On top
         | of the work on WordPress and their plug-ins, when they acquired
         | PocketCasts, they made the apps open source:
         | https://blog.pocketcasts.com/2022/10/19/pocket-casts-mobile-...
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | Their mini tech was built on weird hacks - is all their tech the
       | same or is there something legit powering it?
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | Well if you consider private APIs/impersonating 1st party
         | clients weird hacks then yes, none of these services have
         | official 3rd party client support.
        
           | gtirloni wrote:
           | I was thinking about this after seeing the announcement.
           | 
           | It's fine for open integrations like Matrix/IRC but all other
           | are with proprietary services provided by for-profit
           | companies.. that usually doesn't go well in the long run
           | (e.g. Twitter clients).
           | 
           | It seems to be a really high risk investment. I wonder how
           | they plan to pull this off if/when they start to grow and
           | attract more attention.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I find it interesting that so many people want to unify all their
       | messages. For me, I like having different apps that I can check
       | with different frequency. I am glad that I can get my iMessages
       | immediately but that LinkedIn messages don't get delivered to me
       | until I open the app/website. I have literally never had an issue
       | where I didn't get a message in time because it was sent via the
       | wrong platform. People who need to reach me urgently know how to
       | do so.
        
         | 0xblinq wrote:
         | And what prevents these aggregator apps from having different
         | settings for each network?
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I imagine this is possible, but as someone who has tuned
           | these settings in the OS-level notification preferences, why
           | would I want to do it all over again within an aggregator
           | app?
        
         | EduardoBautista wrote:
         | I agree. I even like to silence notifications on different
         | messaging apps depending on my focus mode on iOS/macOS.
        
           | mckn1ght wrote:
           | iOS/Messages is almost here. You can mute certain
           | conversations, and set certain contacts as MVPs. But it has a
           | few gaps w.r.t. focus modes.
        
             | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
             | You can't receive messages via iMessage without disclosing
             | your phone-number or Apple ID e-mail address to the sender.
             | Furthermore, doing anything that changes your phone-number
             | (e.g. using a local SIM abroad instead of roaming)
             | invalidates your phone-number with iMessage, but because
             | most people use iMessage via phone-numbers it means you're
             | forced to use roaming ($$$) when travelling, and so on and
             | so on.
             | 
             | So long as iMessage is sold as "better SMS" then that's
             | fine, as it inherits SMS's limitations (above) - but it
             | isn't a portable, platform-agnostic, geography-neutral,
             | messaging platform, and I'd rather people didn't try to use
             | it as such.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | That's a perfectly valid workflow, but it would certainly be
         | nice for people who do want a unified workflow to be able to
         | have that option.
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | Such an app/service would not work towards the interests of
           | message recipients - but the message senders. Those interests
           | are not aligned.
        
             | mtlynch wrote:
             | Why are they not aligned?
             | 
             | If I send someone a text and they receive it in their email
             | inbox because that's their preference, what difference does
             | it make to me as the sender?
        
               | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
               | When you send an SMS text message, there's a
               | understanding (and therefore, an expectation) that it
               | goes directly to the recipient's phone/smartwatch and
               | that they can reply immediately; i.e.: it's a system for
               | high-priority (and therefore highly-intrusive)
               | communications - this is why people generally don't give-
               | out their mobile-phone number to strangers.
               | 
               | Unless you go to the effort to tell people that you route
               | your SMS messages to e-mail and therefore reply in-your-
               | own-time (hours/days/weeks delay), the people trying to
               | contact you aren't going to expect that: they're going to
               | expect you to reply much sooner. I'd be out of a job if
               | my boss' panicked SMS messages about how our prod website
               | is down went to email instead of my phone.
               | 
               | -------------
               | 
               | Any kind of "universal" messaging platform that anyone
               | can use to send anyone a message needs to allow
               | recipients to set how maximially intrusive those messages
               | are - but senders might also want a way to set how
               | minimally intrusive those messages are. Those
               | requirements cannot be easily reconciled in a way that
               | protects privacy and prevents abuse while also allowing
               | anonymous and unsolicited messages or senders. So far the
               | "best" way to do that today is by segregating senders
               | (not recipients) by system (e.g. private SMS for high-
               | intrusive; less-private-but-guarded e-mail for low-
               | intrusive; public social-media, etc).
               | 
               | Consider services that tried to work-around that, such as
               | LinkedIn's paid messaging feature - which didn't exactly
               | go very well.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | For sure. I just wonder who these people are and how large
           | the market is, since none of my friends/family are in it.
           | It's possible this is much more popular on Android, or
           | outside the US (perhaps because they use WhatsApp more than
           | iPhone-using Americans). But if this is the case, I wonder
           | how much they will be able to charge, since Android users are
           | less monetizable than iPhone users, and the US has a good
           | chunk of the highly-monetizable mobile audience.
           | 
           | For me, my unified workflow is my phone, which I have tuned
           | to receive notifications from various platforms in various
           | different ways (push, pull, manual). Even if I could tune
           | Beeper to do the same, I would prefer not to have to
           | duplicate my effort in setting preferences, which I've
           | already set at the OS level.
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | I like having apps I can check with different frequencies. What
         | I _don 't_ like is when I have two apps that I have to check
         | regularly. Thankfully, almost everyone I talk to regularly uses
         | Signal, but there's those few stragglers who stubbornly cling
         | to SMS.
        
         | jokethrowaway wrote:
         | The problem arise when your friends can text you on Discord,
         | WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Viber, Facebook Messenger,
         | Linkedin, Instagram, Twitter, Bsky, Mastodon, Skype, Slack,
         | Email.
         | 
         | It's not that you don't receive messages but that you need to
         | keep installed 14 different applications on your phone or get
         | used to 14 different UIs to do the same thing.
         | 
         | The major problem is the WhatsApp vs Telegram split for me, if
         | all my friends were on Telegram I wouldn't really need it.
         | 
         | Self hosted Matrix sounds like a good solution and I'm happy
         | with managing my own server - but the UI quality (Elements) is
         | just not on par with Telegram, so I'm still there.
         | 
         | I agree with you, it's nice to relegate spam to Linkedin /
         | Email, but that can be achieved with marking contacts as
         | friends vs random people and having a unified messaging
         | platform.
        
           | brandon272 wrote:
           | Yes, this is exactly it. And in an age where people are
           | terminally on their phones, having 14 different apps that can
           | all launch notifications from the background as long as they
           | are installed and you are logged in is perhaps fine. On a Mac
           | or PC in particular it would be nice to have other options
           | around aggregating these messages in a single interface as we
           | used to be able to do 20 years ago.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | Yeah, I can understand the appeal a bit more on a computer.
             | On my phone, it's a problem that's already been solved at
             | the OS level.
        
       | languagehacker wrote:
       | I've said this before, but Automattic's catalogue of products
       | reads like an elephant graveyard of past internet fads.
       | 
       | I view an acquisition like this as a relative death knell, but
       | only insofar as we have seen unified messaging attempted time and
       | again only to fail due to combinations of social pressures and
       | anticompetitive technical choices. Beeper will be absorbed into
       | another also-ran messaging platform that won't be able to compete
       | with whatever communities already have critical mass.
       | 
       | However, as far as exits go, it sort of seems like the best
       | possible outcome for the folks at Beeper, so congrats.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _elephant graveyard of past internet fads._
         | 
         | This makes it sound like they acquired Evernote, which perhaps
         | wouldn't have been the worst thing ever.
        
         | rwbt wrote:
         | That's unfair to Automattic I think. I think they're really
         | good to maintaining the products with less relative harm. Yes,
         | I know the recent change in terms to feed their data to AI (you
         | can pay them to avoid it).
         | 
         | I'm still hoping they can revamp Tumblr but atleast they keep
         | the lights on.
        
       | gmays wrote:
       | Congrats! Matt and the team at Automattic are a good group of
       | folks. It seems like a great fit, and I'm excited to see what you
       | guys do together.
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | The hopeless romantic in me is hoping the real reason Automattic
       | acquired them was actually to get some useful developer
       | documentation written for the Beepy.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Given how bad the WordPress documentation is, it's a weird hope
         | to have from that company.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Interesting, I think the WordPress docs are pretty decent.
           | There's always room for improvement, but I love how it links
           | and shows you the source code. They could definitely expand
           | documentation coverage for plugins and stuff though, that's a
           | little lacking.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | Pidgin
       | 
       | Reminds me of why I used https://pidgin.im 20-years ago.
       | 
       | It was an aggregator chat app.
        
         | rw_grim wrote:
         | We're still here and still supporting tons of stuff...
         | https://pidgin.im/plugins/?publisher=all&query=&type=Protoco...
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | >If you haven't heard of Beeper before, welcome! We make a
       | universal chat app - one app to send and receive messages on 14
       | different chat networks.
       | 
       | I feel a little exhausted just thinking about needing to be on 14
       | different chat networks.
       | 
       | What are people using that for?
       | 
       | Marketing / customer service type chat stuff across networks?
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | yes and sales and regular users too
         | 
         | linkedin, fb, ig, slacks, google stuff and so on - it adds up
         | quickly
        
         | garbageman wrote:
         | Not a user but I imagine it's like the blackberry model where
         | texts, messenger, whatsapp, and whatever else all go to the
         | same inbox rather than having to check 40 different apps. I
         | really wish that idea would come back.
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | I wish that idea came back with some sort of iron hard
           | contract protecting user data in perpetuity.
        
         | saynay wrote:
         | I would imagine most people are not using all 14, but some
         | subset. If you have friends and family that are not all on the
         | same services, having a unified inbox to talk to them all
         | without having to remember who you talk to on what is
         | convenient.
        
         | batuhanicoz wrote:
         | Rarely a single user would use 14 different chat networks. For
         | example for me, I have two WhatsApp accounts (number for my
         | current country + home country), Twitter, Instagram to chat
         | with old friends, Facebook for some relatives, LinkedIn for
         | networking, Signal to chat with my lawyer, Telegram for hobby
         | communities.
         | 
         | I simply wouldn't talk to a lot of people in my life if I had
         | to use a different app for each.
         | 
         | We also aim to be the best chat app, period. So even if you are
         | using only a single account on a single network, we want to
         | supercharge your chat experience with AI, snippets, good
         | search, labels, advanced notification options, and much more.
        
         | leros wrote:
         | It's exhausting having different apps.
         | 
         | I use SMS for talking to friends in the US. I use WhatsApp for
         | talking to most international people. I use Telegram to talk to
         | Australians. I use Line to talk to some people in Asia.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | I think it's about connecting people on 14 different chat
         | networks not a single user on 14 networks?
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | > I feel a little exhausted just thinking about needing to be
         | on 14 different chat networks.
         | 
         | That's the point, the vision is that you should only have to be
         | on Beeper.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | And you don't have to convince everyone in your life to
           | switch to The Messenger. You can just have it.
        
         | kevstev wrote:
         | This idea has existed and been implemented for a very long
         | time- Pidgin was the first client I can remember that would try
         | to bridge across various chat networks. You likely are on 14
         | different chat "networks" already- you might not think of them
         | as chat networks, but as apps with chat functionality.
         | 
         | Just real quick off the top of my head I can name a bunch: FB
         | Instagram Twitter WhatsApp Telegram Signal Gchat/whatever
         | google calls the chat in gmail these days kik sms Irc Discord
         | 
         | This is just a matter of keeping all those separate apps, or
         | consolidating them into one single one. Back in the early 2000s
         | when I did indeed have friends across AIM, Yahoo, MSN, etc... I
         | did use an all in one app to consolidate everything.
        
           | theogravity wrote:
           | Trillian was my first client. It looks like it still exists
           | and now runs on a subscription model:
           | 
           | https://trillian.im/
           | 
           | Also looks like it no longer connects to multiple networks,
           | but uses their own now.
        
             | dqv wrote:
             | You can still add XMPP accounts, but that's all.
        
             | kevstev wrote:
             | Ha thanks for jogging my memory. I knew pidgin wasn't the
             | first or even the primary one I used but I couldn't recall
             | what else I had used.
        
       | joelhaasnoot wrote:
       | I just hope they don't kill Beepberry/beepy
        
       | starik36 wrote:
       | I am using Beeper desktop app on Windows for the express purpose
       | of being an iMessage client.
       | 
       | Their press release (https://blog.beeper.com/2024/04/09/beeper-
       | is-now-available/) says "Beeper does not currently support
       | iMessage". Does that refer to the Android client?
       | 
       | I hope they continue to support iMessage on the desktop.
        
       | alalani1 wrote:
       | Automattic basically consolidated the messaging aggregator market
       | for $175M - I don't have any data but given they had 40 FTE
       | between the two companies, I would guess not more than $10M in
       | revenue across the two. Anyone understand the business rationale
       | for wanting to own this market?
        
         | xmprt wrote:
         | No matter what, as long as we continue to communicate with each
         | other, messaging will never die. Individual messaging platforms
         | will come and go but the idea of instant messaging has existed
         | for about as long as the internet. $175M might be a steal if
         | Beeper gets more mass market appeal.
        
           | alalani1 wrote:
           | Yeah, my first response was going to be that the paid
           | messaging app business model hasn't worked that entire time.
           | But what we've learned from Whatsapp is that there may be
           | other ways to monetize (Whatsapp Business). Still not an
           | obvious bet IMO but you're right that owning the messaging
           | layer is valuable.
        
       | k8svet wrote:
       | The Verge reports:
       | 
       | > Since then, Beeper has rolled out some security upgrades that
       | change the way the app handles security and prevent Beeper itself
       | from seeing unencrypted messages from Signal, WhatsApp, and other
       | encrypted apps. Screenshots of Beeper's desktop and mobile apps.
       | 
       | How?
        
         | btseytlin wrote:
         | Probably on device encryption before anything is sent through
         | their servers
        
           | k8svet wrote:
           | I'm sorry, but that's not an answer. WhatsApp encrypts the
           | message E2E, and then Beeper is bridging it into Matrix. The
           | only way this would make any sense is if they've bridged E2E
           | all the way through to ... the clients? Like, it doesn't make
           | any sense.
        
             | iLoveOncall wrote:
             | It's a journalist's take, they probably mean that Bleeper
             | doesn't phone home the messages from the client.
        
             | k8svet wrote:
             | Well, now I regret that this comment sounds a bit
             | dismissive, if another reply is true and they run the
             | bridge locally. That's... impressive, and still surprising
             | to think about.
             | 
             | I'd honestly be fine with accepting the compromise of
             | hosted bridges, especially since they seem to offer the
             | ability to self-host the bridges, while using Beepers'
             | Matrix infra. Gives them some extra cred in my book.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | There's an "experimental" option in the app to run the server
           | locally. I don't use signal so not sure if it works as well
        
         | xinayder wrote:
         | They break the terms of service of said services, they started
         | this with iMessages last year and Apple shut them down after it
         | was an obvious break of ToS, and they keep doing the same with
         | other IM services.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Beeper has been talking about running on-device bridges rather
         | than server-side bridges. So presumably that would allow
         | encryption to the user's device, then re-encrypted on-device to
         | Matrix then sent to Beeper.
        
           | k8svet wrote:
           | Wow, that's ... surprising.
        
       | xinayder wrote:
       | Do you plan on continuing contributing to open source, or is
       | Automattic going to dictate your business plan and Beeper will be
       | enshittified?
        
         | jtbayly wrote:
         | "We plan to be enshittified," said nobody, ever.
        
           | xinayder wrote:
           | That's a pessimistic take to say that Automattic will close
           | up Beeper and make it a worse a product.
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | I think it's more of a criticism of asking the question as
             | if that was ever going to be given as an answer, regardless
             | of what the actual answer is.
             | 
             | in what scenario do you see anyone giving the negative
             | answer truthfully?
        
               | wpietri wrote:
               | I think the flavor of the answer says a lot. A vague
               | negative answer will make me suspicious, as will one
               | based in good intentions and moonbeams. But a negative
               | answer rooted in principle and mentioning specific
               | choices is one I'll take more seriously.
               | 
               | Enshittification is the default path for leaders with MBA
               | brain, but some still manage to avoid it.
        
             | compootr wrote:
             | that's a naive take to think there's no chance they will
             | 
             | every. company. wants. money.
             | 
             | it's the SAME, EVERY.SINGLE.TIME
        
               | askonomm wrote:
               | That's indeed what a purpose of companies are.
               | Organizations that do not want money are registered as
               | non-profit.
        
           | cozzyd wrote:
           | Laxative manufacturer?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | We detached this subthread from
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39981276.
        
       | Andrex wrote:
       | I trust Automattic implicitly. This seems like a good move.
        
         | markx2 wrote:
         | Oh, you really should not.
         | 
         | - Never trust ANY money-making company IMPLICILTY.
         | 
         | - Go to https://apple.wordpress.com
         | 
         | See the cookie banner
         | 
         | Click View Partners in the bottom left
         | 
         | Browse that list, check the details
         | 
         | Find the company that Matt has sold your data to for over 11
         | years.
         | 
         | The data Matt sells is for every user and every visitor not
         | just on wordpress.com (who clicks Agree, but we know most
         | people do)
         | 
         | Are you still happy?
        
       | max_ wrote:
       | What's the acquisition amount?
        
       | thoughtpeddler wrote:
       | How much of this is a long-term bet that the US DOJ's antitrust
       | case against Apple (at least the iMessage-specific argument) will
       | result in the forced opening up of the platform, such that Beeper
       | (now Automattic) will sustainably function?
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | I'm sure that's a non-zero factor. Plus Beeper has a lot of
         | name recognition due to their epic standoff
        
         | xinayder wrote:
         | Is it really anti-trust if you reverse engineered something
         | (deliberately breaking the ToS of said service - Apple can
         | suspend your accounts for doing so) while said service ToS, a
         | contract you sign when you use their service, explicitly
         | forbids reverse engineering?
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | and they're rewriting Beeper in PHP as a WordPress plugin!
       | 
       | Kidding of course, but on a serious note what's the strategic
       | value of Beeper here to Automattic?
       | 
       | From the post:
       | 
       | > _Automattic is doubling down on chat after their acquisition
       | last year of Texts.com, a messaging app with a similar mission.
       | Our teams and products will merge, and I will take on the role
       | leading the team as Head of Messaging. It will take a bit of time
       | for us to integrate and combine forces under the Beeper brand.
       | We've got big plans! I'm really excited about the future of chat_
       | 
       | Why? Are they trying to eliminate a competitor (standard big tech
       | co move)? Do they think texts.com doesn't have a bright future?
       | I'm not trying to be negative (in fact I have a high opinion of
       | Automattic due to their great open source work), just trying to
       | figure out why this makes sense for them.
       | 
       | Is chat a diversification effort for Automattic, or does it tie
       | into their overall strategy somehow?
        
         | flexagoon wrote:
         | Automattic also acquired Pocket Casts, so they don't only own
         | things that fit into the WP ecosystem.
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | I don't see the win for Automattic here. Beeper seems to be a
       | dead product with its main use case gutted.
       | 
       | Are there other capabilities that I'm missing?
       | 
       | Either way, congrats to the team!
        
       | throwaway6e8f wrote:
       | This is an odd match, and at a time when the strategic value of
       | Beeper seems to be very low.
       | 
       | > Matt, Automattic's CEO, and I have known each other for years
       | 
       | Could it perhaps be a favor for a friend to give a plausible
       | reason for ejecting from the business without admitting failure?
        
         | gkoberger wrote:
         | Sure, but Automattic also bought Texts.com... this seems to be
         | part of a bigger strategy on their part.
         | 
         | Even friends don't spend $150M on friends for no reason.
         | Automattic is doing well, but they don't have $150M to drop
         | (plus future salaries, hosting, etc) just to help someone save
         | face.
        
       | andrewstetsenko wrote:
       | At some point, it makes sense to join forces for Beeper and
       | texts.com to create a unified messaging app. The idea was
       | realized a number of times, but I hope we'll see the best it's
       | iteration now.
        
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