[HN Gopher] Hacker News (HN) - Part 1: analysis
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       Hacker News (HN) - Part 1: analysis
        
       Author : sebg
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2024-04-08 13:53 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.osm-ai.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.osm-ai.net)
        
       | mtmail wrote:
       | > Even more interestingly, there was negative karma. I don't even
       | know how this came to be.
       | 
       | Brand new account commenting with very low value but not worth
       | flagging. For example "I read the article yesterday" or "Why is
       | this article even on HN?". I've seen a couple that had negative
       | karma on the first days. Often though it's simply spam and the
       | account soon gets shadow-banned though I don't understand the
       | process that does that. Example user:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=gabriella4151
        
         | redbell wrote:
         | Well explained, Gracias!
        
       | omoikane wrote:
       | Once new users gain the ability to downvote stuff, actively
       | engaging in discussions increases the risk of losing karma, and
       | lose the one ability that is not available to new users. So if
       | users perceive the main value of Hacker News as a moderated news
       | feed, it seems the best strategy is to earn their 501 points
       | somehow and lurk after that. Maybe that's why user activity falls
       | off after a few years.
        
         | screenoridesaga wrote:
         | There's also active downvote bots that search for phrases like
         | GOP and flag them immediately... watch.
        
       | imadj wrote:
       | I didn't realize that the active user tenure is this low (one
       | year) since I frequently come across veteran users.
       | 
       | On a similar note, sometimes i wonder where the high profile
       | users who leave the platform move into (if anything), there
       | doesn't seem to be a lot of options. Do they switch to alt
       | accounts? turn into lurkers? maybe go off the grid?
        
         | fritzo wrote:
         | The average user in the dataset will have lower tenure than the
         | average user you encounter, because long-tenure users will have
         | more encounters.
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | I wonder if people rotate their accounts alot here at the one
       | year mark. Which I should be doing...
        
         | sitzkrieg wrote:
         | if nothing else because they dont allow you to delete your
         | account
        
           | bredren wrote:
           | You may want to use anti-stylometry tools in addition to
           | account switching.
           | 
           | There's already been evidence that analysis to identify and
           | attribute authorship across accounts can work surprisingly
           | well.
        
             | sitzkrieg wrote:
             | the agents enjoy my unique typos though!
        
       | username923409 wrote:
       | i mostly lurk HN, and don't post unless i feel like my
       | contribution is useful in some way.
       | 
       | from my perspective, it's relieving to see that the number of
       | users has remained mostly constant in recent years. of course
       | it's selfish to think in this way, but almost no "social media"
       | or UGC-based platform that i've used has actually become better
       | or more useful to me as it became (much) larger.
       | 
       | this kind of fast growth in users (beyond some size) often leads
       | to a shift in the culture that made preexisting users participate
       | in the first place, leading to a loss in overall quality of the
       | platform as a whole. if the growth is gradual enough, then new
       | users eventually figure out how to fit into the culture or leave.
       | 
       | i guess i've said nothing that isn't obvious to people who have
       | used a computer before, basically "yay no eternal september for
       | HN yet", but i digress.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | Interesting point.
         | 
         | I was watching _The Synanon Fix_ on HBO, this weekend, and
         | towards the end of the first episode, we see the original
         | addicts, being replaced by the more lucrative  "lifestylers,"
         | and I suspect that the next episodes will be downhill, from
         | here.
         | 
         | The app I just wrote and released, is picking up steam, but
         | slowly. That's deliberate. We're not doing _any_ promotion, and
         | it 's giving us a chance to make course corrections. By the
         | time people start piling in (and they will, but it will never
         | be more than a rounding error to many social media apps), I
         | think it will be in extremely good shape.
        
       | AndrewKemendo wrote:
       | I've significantly reduced my commenting recently because I
       | realized that I've been using the internet to hone my
       | discussion/argumentation skills since I got on the web in 1996
       | 
       | At this point there's too much noise on the internet for good
       | long term, long form discussion like we had on irc and forums and
       | frankly I'm not sure where that lives today.
       | 
       | HN seems to be the last place that had good regular conversation
       | mostly cause of dang
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | You've put into words exactly what I feel.
         | 
         |  _" [..] frankly I'm not sure where that lives today"_
         | 
         | I wish I knew.
         | 
         | Being a digital native (albeit an old one) and never having
         | been very social in real life I notice that this trend drives
         | me increasingly into real world interactions. I always found
         | trade fairs, conferences, meet-ups and especially networking
         | events a bit ridiculous and yet I attended more of them after
         | the pandemic than in the decades before and very strangely I
         | enjoyed it.
         | 
         |  _" HN seems to be the last place that had good regular
         | conversation mostly cause of dang"_
         | 
         | Amen to that!
        
         | pickingdinner wrote:
         | These platforms are not designed for intellectual discourse,
         | even when they're advertised to be, and even when they try to
         | be.
         | 
         | You can't just be right. You also need to be careful. Some
         | would say mindful, but that's not it. You need to be careful
         | not to trigger anyone or trip any ideological wires. Not fun
         | and for what, so you don't bother anymore.
         | 
         | And this is not to discredit the moderators or anything else
         | here or on any other moderation dependent platform. Without
         | them the average quality of comments would be worse, but there
         | also is no denying that their primary role is censorship.
        
           | pickingdinner wrote:
           | Downvoted without a counter argument. Which just proves my
           | point. There is nothing more unintellectual than a plain
           | downvote. I even had some guardrails in that comment too. But
           | I am sure the downvote was warranted to the person who did
           | it.
           | 
           | But also upvotes are similar. No one necessarily "likes" the
           | truth. Nothing about correctness really warrants whatever an
           | upvote means to that person. A "correct" vote maybe, but
           | those are unavailable on these platforms. Not designed for
           | intellectual discourse.
           | 
           | Just to be fair, Twitter is worse. How can you have
           | intellectual discourse with character limits and contextless-
           | ness as a feature? You get something, and something valuable
           | to many, surely, but it isn't intellectual discourse.
           | 
           | Youtube comments are another great case study. Reddit also.
        
           | acover wrote:
           | > In Comments
           | 
           | > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-
           | examine. Edit out swipes.
           | 
           | The guidelines want you to be kind, which is orthogonal to
           | right.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | screenoridesaga wrote:
         | Really I feel like HN is the worst for discussion. Look at all
         | these long empty comments. There's nothing of substance here.
        
         | Lerc wrote:
         | My main issue with HN comments is that the threading display
         | tends to cause focus on a very small number of high ranking
         | comments along with their threads. This leads to potentially
         | insightful comments on the original article being largely
         | unread.
         | 
         | It's a problem where the solution is not obvious. There is
         | perhaps an an opportunity to cycle through a series of
         | candidate solutions.
         | 
         | I imagine something like placing a single comment at the top of
         | comments selected from some formula of view-count and score, so
         | that comments at least get some views to get the chance of
         | being upvoted to the point of being seen by the wider
         | community.
        
       | tcmb wrote:
       | If what they call 'consistency' is just the total number of
       | stories posted, it's not really surprising to see a strong
       | correlation with total karma points, is it? The more stories
       | posted, the more karma gathered. Anything else would be a real
       | head scratcher.
       | 
       | You could say, there might be people who keep posting stories
       | even though the don't get upvoted, but that would be kind of
       | irrational. If the community doesn't seem to be interested in
       | what they post, they will stop doing so sooner or later.
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | Another curious data point: id =40000000 is up in a few hours. I
       | thought it would be fun to try to make a submission pointing to
       | that id, while trying to get that id right when it's up. But it's
       | too late to start hacking on a script; I'm rather going to bed
       | now. (Anybody else trying, please don't kill the server or make
       | dang mad).
       | 
       | Edit: oh I missed a 9 in looking at an earlier link, it'll be a
       | little more than a day from now, unless sama announces a new
       | product, triggering a comment storm.
        
       | raviisoccupied wrote:
       | > This finding suggests that the key to a high score isn't
       | necessarily landing viral hits, but rather consistently sharing
       | stories.
       | 
       | This is interesting. I find it's very difficult to predict which
       | links do and don't perform on Hacker News, resulting in quite a
       | diverse (to me at least) series of stories. Thanks for the
       | analysis.
        
       | laurex wrote:
       | > for those treating HN as a competitive platform where karma
       | points serve as the score
       | 
       | I have to imagine that people for whom there's a primary
       | motivation to be a "winner" in points must quickly lose interest?
       | But maybe I'm just naive to how motivating status could be...
        
         | screenoridesaga wrote:
         | You are doing that right now though because you want attention,
         | don't you see how ironic your comment is? You're the noise.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | The author "found out" that sama = Sam Altman nad pg = Paul
       | Graham, by his surprise.
       | 
       | It is well known that Hacker News owner company, Y Combinator had
       | Altman as his CEO before he joined OpenAI.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-08 23:00 UTC)