[HN Gopher] Pentaborane(9)
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       Pentaborane(9)
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-04-06 11:28 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | pureheartlover wrote:
       | We often see green flames shooting across the sky without
       | descending in SA near the Woomera test facility. I put it down to
       | boronated fuel, but most people put it down to meteors with high
       | nickel iron or copper content.
        
         | oger wrote:
         | Naah - she'll be right mate ;-)
        
       | keepamovin wrote:
       | _As one of the compounds that have a NFPA 704 (fire diamond)
       | rating of 4 for every category, it is naturally extremely
       | dangerous. Above 30 degC it can form explosive concentration of
       | vapors with air. Its vapors are heavier than air. It is
       | pyrophoric--can ignite spontaneously in contact with air, when
       | even slightly impure. It can also readily form shock sensitive
       | explosive compounds, and reacts violently with some fire
       | suppressants, notably with halocarbons and water. It is highly
       | toxic and symptoms of lower-level exposure may occur with up to
       | 48 hours delay. Its acute toxicity is comparable to some nerve
       | agents._
       | 
       | Friendly
        
         | carterschonwald wrote:
         | Fluorine gas seems safer by comparison
        
           | keepamovin wrote:
           | Friendly fluorine and its positively sociable cousin
           | hydrofluoric acid, the lifes of the party compared to
           | pentaborane.
           | 
           | It's like it's _asking_ to be banned.
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | ?Porque no los dos?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_rocket_propellant#Bipro.
           | ..
           | 
           | edit: I found people that tested the pentaborane/fluorine
           | combination specifically,
           | 
           | https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD0270941.pdf ( _"
           | EXPLORATORY RESEARCH ON HIGH ENERGY PROPELLANT SYSTEMS"_
           | (1961))
           | 
           | - _" An instantaneous hypergolic ignition occurred with a
           | very long brilliant greenish-white flame and clouds of dense
           | white smoke. Approximately four seconds after the start of
           | the run, a leak developed in the fluorine valve stem. The
           | lowered pressure in the fluorine line caused a flashback and
           | the fluorine line ruptured. The very fuel rich combustion and
           | decomposition of pentaborane which then resulted quickly
           | plugged up the injector holes with the thick polymerized
           | products of decomposition of pentaborane."_
        
       | GuB-42 wrote:
       | This made me think about the excellent "things I won't work with"
       | series by Derek Lowe.
       | 
       | https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-wo...
       | 
       | He didn't write write an article about pentaborane, he left this
       | one to Max Gergel https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/max-
       | gergel-s-memoi...
        
         | x1f604 wrote:
         | From the book:
         | 
         | (Warning: Spoilers ahead)
         | 
         | > The next day I told Parry that I was flattered but would not
         | make pentaborane. He was affable, showed no surprise, no
         | disappointment, just produced a list of names, most of which
         | had been crossed off; ours was close to the bottom. He crossed
         | us off and drove off in his little auto leaving for Gittman's,
         | or perhaps, another victim. Later I heard that he visited two
         | more candidates who displayed equal lack of interest and the
         | following Spring the Navy put up its own plant, which blew up
         | with considerable loss of life. The story did not make the
         | press.
        
           | keepamovin wrote:
           | Hahaha. Fuck. The history of pentaborane is littered with
           | human tragedy. What an appropriate compound for this troubled
           | age.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | Definitely don't read about the history of acetylene then.
             | 
             | Same as it's always been.
        
         | araes wrote:
         | Hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane is pretty funny and very similar.
         | 
         | "Hexanitro? Say what? I'd call for all the chemists who've ever
         | worked with a hexanitro compound to raise their hands, but that
         | might be assuming too much about the limb-to-chemist ratio."
         | (classic chemist joke)
         | 
         | "make a more stable form of it, by mixing it with TNT. Yes,
         | this is an example of something that _becomes less explosive_
         | as a one-to-one cocrystal with TNT.. "
        
       | gilleain wrote:
       | Wacky structure! Not just a cage, but also has 2 B-H-B bonds
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-center_two-electron_bond) -
       | no wonder it is so reactive...
        
         | keepamovin wrote:
         | Yeah, amazing that something so relatively unstable can
         | actually exist long enough to be dangerous. I suppose the
         | exothermic output is not helped by how stable H2 is.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Do other molecules fit inside the cage?
        
           | gilleain wrote:
           | no, far too small i would think. not sure what the smallest
           | cage is that can act as a host-guest complex
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host%E2%80%93guest_chemistry
           | 
           | A fun one is Prof Rebek et al's 'tennis ball' - bisglycoluril
           | that forms two halves that cup around a guest:
           | 
           | https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20011203/rebek1.html
        
         | ribs wrote:
         | Hey, you're not giving pentaborane enough credit - it's got 4
         | of those bridging hydrides.
        
       | office_drone wrote:
       | I recall this being mentioned in Ignition!: An Informal History
       | of Liquid Rocket Propellants [0] :
       | 
       | Boranes are unpleasant beasts. Diborane and pentaborane ignite
       | spontaneously in the atmosphere, and the fires are remarkably
       | difficult to extinguish. They react with water to form,
       | eventually, hydrogen and boric acid, and the reaction is
       | sometimes violent. Also, they not only are possessed of a
       | peculiarly repulsive odor; they are extremely poisonous by just
       | about any route. This collection of properties does not simplify
       | the problem of handling them. They are also very expensive since
       | their synthesis is neither easy nor simple. But they possess one
       | property which attracted rocket people to them as hippies to a
       | happening. They have an extremely high heat of combustion -- gram
       | for gram about 50 percent more than jet fuel.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.amazon.ca/Ignition-Informal-History-Liquid-
       | Prope...
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | >Fifteen years ago, people used to ask me "What _is_ an exotic
         | fuel anyway?" and I would answer "It's expensive, it's got
         | boron in it, and it probably doesn't work."
         | 
         | What a great book.
        
       | neglesaks wrote:
       | Is it as much fun to work with as Azidoazidolazide?
        
       | jonathrg wrote:
       | I was confused because I read the 9 as a manpage section.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | 9   Kernel routines [Non standard]
        
           | ale42 wrote:
           | syscall(SYS_PENTABORANE, 0x42);
        
             | perihelions wrote:
             | Yup, that's non-standard alright.
        
       | simne wrote:
       | As I remember, Russians once even launched "Soyuz" (R-7) on
       | Pentaborane, achieved some additional kilograms of load.
       | Fortunately , all finished ok, but they don't repeat these
       | experiment "because of expensive".
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-08 23:01 UTC)