[HN Gopher] System/360 - CHM Revolution
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       System/360 - CHM Revolution
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2024-04-06 14:12 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.computerhistory.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.computerhistory.org)
        
       | Paul-Craft wrote:
       | For those of you interested in these ancient machines, the CHM
       | has an IBM 1401 and a PDP/1 that they actually will run as demos
       | from time to time. The 1401 runs twice a week, and the PDP/1 runs
       | twice a month.
       | 
       | https://computerhistory.org/exhibits/
        
         | anyfoo wrote:
         | Do note though that they are both very different from s/360.
         | 
         | Complexity-wise, 1401 and PDP/1 are a bit closer to home
         | computers of the 80s, in that they usually just execute code in
         | a single thread and context and without any protection. They
         | represent an earlier and simpler era of computing.
         | 
         | The s/360 lineage, on the other hand, is an ancestor of our
         | modern computing environment with virtual memory, privilege
         | separation, virtual machines, dynamic linking, and so on.
         | 
         | It's really quite striking how much of our "modern" computing
         | concepts IBM already did at the time with the s/360 and
         | successors, up to the still alive IBM z.
         | 
         | That does not diminish from the awesomeness of the 1401 and
         | PDP-1 exhibits at all, I highly recommend them!
        
           | dboreham wrote:
           | The only working "big iron" I'm aware of in a museum is the
           | LCM's PDP-10. The museum is still closed, unfortunately.
        
           | GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
           | I think of it more as a continuum. At MIT under Jack Dennis,
           | a pdp-1 was converted to timesharing.
           | https://www.computerhistory.org/pdp-1/timesharing/
           | 
           | John McCarthy discusses his memories of early timesharing
           | systems, mentioning the pdp-1 https://www-
           | formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/timesharing/time...
           | 
           | https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/protection/Stat.
           | .. discusses protection hardware -- and how the 360 actually
           | mostly used it on main memory, not on IO channels (even
           | though there was protection available to IO channels).
           | 
           | I'm mainly saying that there were many 'experiments' tried in
           | the olden days, and those plus "the market" give us what we
           | have today. Recall, in the days of the IBM 1401 and DEC
           | pdp-1, the notion of 'byte' as an 8-bit quantity did not
           | exist. ASCII did not exist. The IBM 1401 was a Decimal /
           | Character machine, and could add/sub/mul/div numbers of
           | arbitrary length, in hardware (!). The pdp-1 used one's
           | complement arithmetic. On and On...
        
       | reidacdc wrote:
       | Lovely. "The Mythical Man Month" was a recommended supplementary
       | text when I was in undergrad computer science, and it was well
       | worth the read, especially for me -- I have a tendency to get
       | hung up on the cool tools and fun methods in programming, which
       | is OK in hobby environments, but if the purpose of the software
       | is to solve a problem, you need to keep an eye on the problem.
       | The book extends this insight to managerial methods, famously,
       | and to me feels akin to Goodhart's law, about how once a metric
       | becomes a target, it ceases to be a useful metric.
       | 
       | There's a great interview with Frederick Brooks on Youtube, not
       | specifically about the System/360, but the guy was amazingly
       | self-aware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul0dbgs8Mdk
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | It should be compulsory reading not only for CS students but
         | for devs and managers. People should read it and apply it over
         | and over.
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | The Hercules emulator allows you to run various OS/360 and later
       | systems in emulation under Windows, Mac, Linux and most other
       | Unixes also, in case you wanted to try it out yourself.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | You can try your hand with one of my Docker images.
         | 
         | docker run -it -p 3270:3270 rbanffy/vm370
         | 
         | Then connect your 3270 client(s) to port 3270 on localhost and
         | play like it's the 1970's.
         | 
         | Disclaimer: that image has a 370, the successor of the 360.
         | 
         | For this image, user CMSUSER has password CMSUSER, user MAINT
         | (has more privileges) has password CPCMS. I now forgot the
         | password for OPERATOR. I'll post it here when I remember what
         | it was. This image is built on the Sixpack distribution of
         | VM/370. Google for it and you'll find lots of information.
        
       | fghorow wrote:
       | A blast from the past. UCLA had an S/360 model 91 that was "the
       | campus computer" when I learned to program on it in 1975.
       | 
       | I still have a JCL book from that era somewhere in a box...
       | 
       | //GO.SYSIN DD *
       | 
       | DOO DAH
       | 
       | DOO DAH
       | 
       | (Edited: formatting)
        
       | williamDafoe wrote:
       | TLDR; System/360 was the first true family of architectures that
       | spanned 1000x performance speedup, the smallest models were
       | modest and heavily microcoded.
       | 
       | The Amdahl System/470 was dependent on IBM-compatible disk drives
       | and IBM lost an anti-trust lawsuit in the late 1960s when they
       | tried to deny cpu support contracts to customers using 3rd party
       | disk drives.
       | 
       | Apple today is doing something quite similar by trying to deny
       | repairs by 3rd party companies. IBM broke the law explicitly
       | (tying) through verbal contracts whereas Apple is breaking the
       | law implicitly using needless hardware crypto contracts ...
       | 
       | Thats why Steve Cook should lose the anti trust battle. Just
       | watch.
        
         | dessimus wrote:
         | > Steve Cook
         | 
         | I thought his name was Tim Apple!?
        
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